If confidence is so important...

[somedude81]

 

You know, you don't always have to put a negative spin on everything, it's not going to make you feel or do better in the long run.

ROFL! Is that you telling me to stop replying or something.

 

I'm not putting on a negative spin, I'm being realistic.

 

Not as hard as you think. You just have to know how to use your words. Quiet men who do well are sometimes the best wordsmiths, better than those who talk constantly.

Being quiet doesn't have anything to do with knowing how to use one's words.

 

Watch out, here comes another one of them negative things.

 

Most of the times I'm quiet, it's because I don't know what to say.

 

So in terms of interacting with women, I usually let them do most of the talking but that also means they control the direction of the conversation as well. And most girls aren't going to turn a conversation sexual.

 

Yesterday I had about a 20 minute conversation with a girl I'm kinda into, but it was about her class, her coming internship and her house remodeling. There was no flirting, nothing sexual and honestly I was starting to get bored.

 

A couple of times I thought about what it would be like to kiss her but it seemed like an impossible leap to go from that conversation to snogging.

 

[Hawakai]

But having a conversation and coming off as attractive?......

 

That's the crux of the issue here.

 

Women chat-up dozens of guys per day. There's literally no cool-off time for their lips. I'm sure the vast majority of these guys, after spending so many hours a day talking to women would come out as attractive to them if words(except John Keats and the likes of him).

 

But let me guess. Eventually a woman will find him attractive. Or the majority of the guys orbiting any decent-looking women are doing it not out of sexual attraction, but because they're asking for cooking tips?

 

Man, you're sounding a bit like Roissy.

 

''Women want to date women who are less attractive than them.''

 

''Women are much less into looks/height.''

 

If you want to use game or whatever it is, at least give him useful advice instead on telling him essentially that he's not getting laid because of his choice of words or due to lack of words. In many if not most cases the majority of people who hook-up/are in a relationship don't talk much at all, and the content of the conversation is simple, direct, and straight to the point(leading to sex).

 

But you can use how not talking can get you laid.

 

Couple of weeks ago a foreign student arrived to my classroom. We hit it off instantly. I made her laugh all the time. I used the right words, right eye-contact and body language. Week after that, she's avoiding me.

 

I decide to ignore her. Yesterday I encountered her in the hallway, she was giving the ''blink-eye''(was looking at me and quickly moved her eye from my direction to disguse her gaze). She sat behind me and I could see her from the left corner of my eye. She wouldn't stop looking at me.

 

She'd stare without intention(would look at me rapidly, instantly look to her books). One of the girls next to her, a hot chick mentioned to her something while looking at me. That girl also spent the bulk of the 2 hours class paying more attention to what I was doing(I was simply looking at the teacher and I was silent) than to the class itself.

 

When the ignored girl heard what the other girl was saying, she seemed surprised and looked at me. Class ends, I am the first to leave the classroom. I hurry up to catch the train. Ignored girl lives near me so we take the same bus. My eyes are transfixed and my body is directed at this one girl that probably looked a lot like Dante's muse. She was on the other side of the line, and I was looking at that girl and drooling.

 

2 minutes into this the girl who I had ignored for 2 straight hours(I didn't even aknowledge her existance) walks by me with her eyes on my face all the time, probably said ''hi'' or something and I did not stop what I was doing.

 

Is this girl ''broken?''

 

Nope. She's attractive, sweet, and one of the very few girls who has the bossom and the butt to show off but never does it.

 

You see, its not how you talk or how you move. Its how other women perceive you. If a hot girl thinks you are hot, most girls are going to feel attracted to you. This is not PUAistry. This is fact.

[Lonely Ronin]

Most of the times I'm quiet, it's because I don't know what to say.

 

So in terms of interacting with women, I usually let them do most of the talking but that also means they control the direction of the conversation as well. And most girls aren't going to turn a conversation sexual.

 

Yesterday I had about a 20 minute conversation with a girl I'm kinda into, but it was about her class, her coming internship and her house remodeling. There was no flirting, nothing sexual and honestly I was starting to get bored.

 

 

A shy/quiet person has no problem talking to someone, it just means they might not start the conversation. It can also mean like others said, that they don't need or maybe want to be the center of attention. It can also mean they don't like interacting in large groups.

 

You can guide the conversation just as much as she can by how you respond to what she says. A "how did that happen", or a "I can relate to that because one time...." etc etc.

 

IMO your issue is not that your quiet/shy, it's that your afraid. I bet you have no problem talking to a woman your not attracted to, but when you interact with a woman you are attracted to, you go into OMG don't F it up mode. Being a little nervous around someone your attracted to is normal, but your past writings points to you paralyzing yourself for fear of screwing up. So you let her do all the talking, and do just enough to keep the conversation going.

 

This leads to two thing, One, you knowing a lot about her and her knowing nothing about you. Two, you coming off as dull/boring, because again she knows nothing about you. This is how you are shooting yourself in the foot. She cant flirt with you, because she knows nothing about you. And you trying to do any serious flirting with her is going to weird her out because she doesn't know anything about you.

[Hawakai]

''if words(except John Keats and the likes of him).''

 

If words can create sexual attraction.

[ThaWholigan]

Women chat-up dozens of guys per day. There's literally no cool-off time for their lips. I'm sure the vast majority of these guys, after spending so many hours a day talking to women would come out as attractive to them if words(except John Keats and the likes of him).

 

But let me guess. Eventually a woman will find him attractive. Or the majority of the guys orbiting any decent-looking women are doing it not out of sexual attraction, but because they're asking for cooking tips?

 

Man, you're sounding a bit like Roissy.

 

''Women want to date women who are less attractive than them.''

 

''Women are much less into looks/height.''

 

If you want to use game or whatever it is, at least give him useful advice instead on telling him essentially that he's not getting laid because of his choice of words or due to lack of words. In many if not most cases the majority of people who hook-up/are in a relationship don't talk much at all, and the content of the conversation is simple, direct, and straight to the point(leading to sex).

 

But you can use how not talking can get you laid.

 

Couple of weeks ago a foreign student arrived to my classroom. We hit it off instantly. I made her laugh all the time. I used the right words, right eye-contact and body language. Week after that, she's avoiding me.

 

I decide to ignore her. Yesterday I encountered her in the hallway, she was giving the ''blink-eye''(was looking at me and quickly moved her eye from my direction to disguse her gaze). She sat behind me and I could see her from the left corner of my eye. She wouldn't stop looking at me.

 

She'd stare without intention(would look at me rapidly, instantly look to her books). One of the girls next to her, a hot chick mentioned to her something while looking at me. That girl also spent the bulk of the 2 hours class paying more attention to what I was doing(I was simply looking at the teacher and I was silent) than to the class itself.

 

When the ignored girl heard what the other girl was saying, she seemed surprised and looked at me. Class ends, I am the first to leave the classroom. I hurry up to catch the train. Ignored girl lives near me so we take the same bus. My eyes are transfixed and my body is directed at this one girl that probably looked a lot like Dante's muse. She was on the other side of the line, and I was looking at that girl and drooling.

 

2 minutes into this the girl who I had ignored for 2 straight hours(I didn't even aknowledge her existance) walks by me with her eyes on my face all the time, probably said ''hi'' or something and I did not stop what I was doing.

 

Is this girl ''broken?''

 

Nope. She's attractive, sweet, and one of the very few girls who has the bossom and the butt to show off but never does it.

 

You see, its not how you talk or how you move. Its how other women perceive you. If a hot girl thinks you are hot, most girls are going to feel attracted to you. This is not PUAistry. This is fact.

Preselection theory - I mentioned this in another thread. When other hot girls think you're hot, then the girl will also think you're hot. I think it's a tad exaggerated to be "fact" for every woman, but it is true in a number of cases.

 

Look, I don't think he can "create" attraction or any of that bullsh*t that PUAs say. However, he doesn't do himself any favors because he doesn't do anything. He tells himself everything is hard instead of actually doing it and figuring it out. He's not going to die if he fails a few times.

 

I'm not in the habit of putting people off, like a lot of guys who come onto this site nowadays seem to be doing. I try at least to get them to actually DO SOMETHING. Or at least something different. I admit, I will actually say anything to help someone, as long as they actually end up succeeding or doing something about their problem instead of moaning about the same problem on the internet for eons and eons.

[GirlontheLam]

Yes, it's very hard to come of as attractive when you're shy and/or quiet.

 

BTW, the post I quoted didn't mention attractiveness. He was describing how confidence looks when it's paired with being quiet and I pointed out the errors.

 

I don't believe this. Oddly enough I attract a lot of quiet ones. They have confidence in themselves, but they just aren't social butterflies like I am. Basically this means, we talk for hours, but at a party they tend to keep to themselves.

 

Generally, I find you have to do a little bit more work to get to know the shy guy, if you are a social butterfly type. But there isn't a relationship between shyness and confidence.

 

But if you are the shy type, then the bar scene is not your place for meeting people. You need to stick to places with "smaller" interactions and common interests, so potentials will see you in your element. It is hard to stand out at a big party or in a bar if you are on the quiet side.

[Emilia]

I don't believe this. Oddly enough I attract a lot of quiet ones. They have confidence in themselves, but they just aren't social butterflies like I am. Basically this means, we talk for hours, but at a party they tend to keep to themselves.

 

Generally, I find you have to do a little bit more work to get to know the shy guy, if you are a social butterfly type. But there isn't a relationship between shyness and confidence.

 

 

+1, my experiences have been the same

[USMCHokie]

Generally, I find you have to do a little bit more work to get to know the shy guy, if you are a social butterfly type. But there isn't a relationship between shyness and confidence.

 

The point is that, unless he's particularly physically attractive, people generally won't have the incentive to get to know the shy guy. He will be passed up as just another person walking by.

[Lonely Ronin]

The point is that, unless he's particularly physically attractive, people generally won't have the incentive to get to know the shy guy. He will be passed up as just another person walking by.

 

I think you are all confusing shy with socially awkward. A shy guy won't have a problem talking to a woman. A socially awkward person will have nothing but problems though. They will have few friends and thus fewer chances to meet women in general. Then when they do meet a woman they don't act like a normal person & send her running for the hills. As she is running away, you will probably hear her say "he is weired".

[ThaWholigan]

I think you are all confusing shy with socially awkward. A shy guy won't have a problem talking to a woman. A socially awkward person will have nothing but problems though. They will have few friends and thus fewer chances to meet women in general. Then when they do meet a woman they don't act like a normal person & send her running for the hills. As she is running away, you will probably hear her say "he is weired".

I don't think he is, I think he's just saying that no matter how shy you are, if you're physically attractive (i.e. tall, good looking etc) then she will be attracted to you full stop.

 

Not my line of thoughts, but I do think that looks matter - just not in the way that people think.

[Lonely Ronin]

I don't think he is, I think he's just saying that no matter how shy you are, if you're physically attractive (i.e. tall, good looking etc) then she will be attracted to you full stop.

 

I disagree, way to many guys on ls seem to think being good looking is some kind of magic ticket, and it's not. They are always looking for some crutch to lean on, or someone to blame for their problems. The number one issue I see with a lot of them, is they are either super socially awkward, carry this I'm a looser chip on their shoulder, Hostile towards women because they are not doing well, or some combination of the three.

 

all three of those share one thing in common, they are easily miss-interpreted by people as having low self esteem, no confidence, or shy.

 

another point being that at some point being "physically attractive" works against you when it comes to finding a woman who wants to be in a relationship with you. Several women commented on one of ES's threads about how they won't date a guy who they think is substantially better looking than them. I have heard the exact same thing several times in real life.

 

If your only goal in life is to sleep with as many women as possible, then yea, the better looking you are the better. However, that's a very hollow existence, because the women who are like that are usually no fun to be around at all.

[GravityMan]

I think you guys are seeing this in the wrong light...

 

"Shy, but confident" is the guy who isn't the life of the party, isn't walking around with a big narcissistic ego, but can hold a conversation with said woman and not come off as cringing and "working hard" to get her to like him.

 

"Shy with no confidence" is the guy who is socially inept, can't hold a conversation, and even will trainwreck his chances when he suddenly makes some "I'm such a failure in dating" kind of comment. Some statement or statements where he belittles himself, thinking his honesty will make her pity and like him, and want to help him get over his hump.

 

No guys...it only turns her away. Imagine dating a Debbie Downer who makes a date seem more like a therapy session...so not hot.

 

 

To me, this whole "shy" thing is mainly women saying they don't want narcissistic men.

 

Yeah, I mostly agree with this. I'd describe the first guy with terms such as "modest", "humble" or "low-key".

 

People (men or women) who are like the second guy are often frustrating to talk to and hang out with. Debbie Downers indeed.

[ThaWholigan]

I disagree, way to many guys on ls seem to think being good looking is some kind of magic ticket, and it's not. They are always looking for some crutch to lean on, or someone to blame for their problems. The number one issue I see with a lot of them, is they are either super socially awkward, carry this I'm a looser chip on their shoulder, Hostile towards women because they are not doing well, or some combination of the three.

 

all three of those share one thing in common, they are easily miss-interpreted by people as having low self esteem, no confidence, or shy.

 

I agree with this, and I always find it funny when they say "but it's not like I say all these things", or "it's not like people can tell I'm desperate" and things along those lines. They underestimate that element of social interaction that is mainly subconscious.

 

another point being that at some point being "physically attractive" works against you when it comes to finding a woman who wants to be in a relationship with you. Several women commented on one of ES's threads about how they won't date a guy who they think is substantially better looking than them. I have heard the exact same thing several times in real life.

 

I sometimes think it's intimidation, but a lot of the time, I find that women have types that they resonate with that range between good looking and unattractive, but have similar features. It's interesting actually. But yes, being objectively attractive has it's pros, but there are some cons too - although I'd imagine not a lot of physically attractive people experience as many cons......or so perception would have it.

 

If your only goal in life is to sleep with as many women as possible, then yea, the better looking you are the better. However, that's a very hollow existence, because the women who are like that are usually no fun to be around at all.

 

Some people experience life differently from others, and what may seem hollow to some, may be wholly fulfilling to others.

[Hawakai]

I disagree, way to many guys on ls seem to think being good looking is some kind of magic ticket, and it's not. They are always looking for some crutch to lean on, or someone to blame for their problems. The number one issue I see with a lot of them, is they are either super socially awkward, carry this I'm a looser chip on their shoulder, Hostile towards women because they are not doing well, or some combination of the three.

I do admire the optimism but it doesn't work that way. Being good-looking is a magical ticket. Unless you're surrounded by equally attractive guys you have a huge advantage and you can choose the woman you want. I've lost count on how many times I've seen girls pick-up the good-looking guys. Church girls, party girls, you name it. From all levels of personal beauty, the women cannot get enough of these guys.

 

Women put up what is known as the ''b1tch shield'' when around average looking guys, but its amazing how quickly those shields are penetrated when the guy doing the chatting - regardless of how retarded the conversation is - has looks above what is average.

 

is they are either super socially awkward

I don't know of one guy who isn't lively, outgoing, friendlly and social aware. Thing is, the guys who are all this and have girlfriends are above average, and I've never seen a guy get shot down for being socialy dim if he had the luck of having good-looks.

 

carry this I'm a looser chip on their shoulder

What's a loser chip?

Hostile towards women

Plenty of serial-killers on death row receive love letters and marriage materials. As I've heard, somedude can't even get a date from women below average and the only thing wrong with somedude is his short height, which he can't control. Of course it could be that women are neutral towards average men and can be convinced to date the fella if nothing better looking is around, but the below average guy(height deficiency) is invisible to all women.

 

Could it be that?

another point being that at some point being "physically attractive" works against you when it comes to finding a woman who wants to be in a relationship with you. Several women commented on one of ES's threads about how they won't date a guy who they think is substantially better looking than them. I have heard the exact same thing several times in real life.

Wait. What? All of the girls I've met so far in relationships are dating guys who are better looking than them, or have more money. Went back to college and most of the student body is female. They range from 5's to 10's, with the majority in the 7-9 range and with the right make-up and wardrobe they're all 10.

 

I don't see guys hitting on them. I don't see guys asking them out. I don't see guys wanting anything more than friendship with them. All of the girls are either involved with the top men in that college, are dating guys from their former HS, or are in FWB's and hoping for it to turn into a relationship.

 

Heck, even the average and below average girls are there to study and to find a boyfriend/husband in their 30's, they aren't exactly giving openings to the advances of the average-looking guy.

 

If your only goal in life is to sleep with as many women as possible, then yea, the better looking you are the better. However, that's a very hollow existence, because the women who are like that are usually no fun to be around at all.

Incorrect. That lifestyle is perfect. Because one gets all the sex wanted without having to put up with a woman. After hours per day of dealing with women, I'd rather call my favorite escorts rather than going out and having a super cool or whatever conversation with a woman, wasting my time and money and always wondering if I'm going to get laid or not.

I agree with this, and I always find it funny when they say "but it's not like I say all these things", or "it's not like people can tell I'm desperate" and things along those lines. They underestimate that element of social interaction that is mainly subconscious.

 

 

Where did you take your psychology degree? I have several friends who are in that area and I've never had that subject come up. Unless the guy is chasing every girl, he doesn't appear desperate to most women. I've seen guys who had never gotten laid(heck, most of the guys in my classrooms are involuntary virgins) and they have yet to be called 'creepy.''

Edited November 14, 2012 by Hawakai

[ThaWholigan]

I do admire the optimism but it doesn't work that way. Being good-looking is a magical ticket. Unless you're surrounded by equally attractive guys you have a huge advantage and you can choose the woman you want. I've lost count on how many times I've seen girls pick-up the good-looking guys. Church girls, party girls, you name it. From all levels of personal beauty, the women cannot get enough of these guys.

 

Women put up what is known as the ''b1tch shield'' when around average looking guys, but its amazing how quickly those shields are penetrated when the guy doing the chatting - regardless of how retarded the conversation is - has looks above what is average.

 

I don't know of one guy who isn't lively, outgoing, friendlly and social aware. Thing is, the guys who are all this and have girlfriends are above average, and I've never seen a guy get shot down for being socialy dim if he had the luck of having good-looks.

 

What's a loser chip?

Plenty of serial-killers on death row receive love letters and marriage materials. As I've heard, somedude can't even get a date from women below average and the only thing wrong with somedude is his short height, which he can't control. Of course it could be that women are neutral towards average men and can be convinced to date the fella if nothing better looking is around, but the below average guy(height deficiency) is invisible to all women.

 

Could it be that?

Wait. What? All of the girls I've met so far in relationships are dating guys who are better looking than them, or have more money. Went back to college and most of the student body is female. They range from 5's to 10's, with the majority in the 7-9 range and with the right make-up and wardrobe they're all 10.

 

I don't see guys hitting on them. I don't see guys asking them out. I don't see guys wanting anything more than friendship with them. All of the girls are either involved with the top men in that college, are dating guys from their former HS, or are in FWB's and hoping for it to turn into a relationship.

 

Heck, even the average and below average girls are there to study and to find a boyfriend/husband in their 30's, they aren't exactly giving openings to the advances of the average-looking guy.

 

Incorrect. That lifestyle is perfect. Because one gets all the sex wanted without having to put up with a woman. After hours per day of dealing with women, I'd rather call my favorite escorts rather than going out and having a super cool or whatever conversation with a woman, wasting my time and money and always wondering if I'm going to get laid or not.

 

 

Where did you take your psychology degree? I have several friends who are in that area and I've never had that subject come up. Unless the guy is chasing every girl, he doesn't appear desperate to most women. I've seen guys who had never gotten laid(heck, most of the guys in my classrooms are involuntary virgins) and they have yet to be called 'creepy.''

I'm sorry, just based on my own experiences I have to disagree with a lot of what you are saying because I just don't see it.

 

I think that looks do matter and you guys do have a point there, but you guys exaggerate it too much IMO. I also don't know any guys who are virgins except a few guys, and one doesn't talk to girls at all. Somedude's lack of height doesn't go against him - my brother is the same height as him and always gets girls.

 

Also, I actually like women so I don't have any trouble "putting" up with them without being desperate for sex. So that lifestyle is perfect for some - not for others .

 

Also, regarding your "psychology degree" comment, it's simple observation. Those "incels" might not be called creepy, but they are still doing it wrong. It's not because of their looks either. Any ugly numpty can get a girl, so stop making excuses.

 

I am expecting the regular "white knight/virgin" insults that I regularly get from guys like you , but that is all I have to say.

[pteromom]

So you have quiet guys who tell you that they think they're ugly and hate themselves?

 

Sure - look how many posts there are on here from guys whining about how ugly they are. And I haven't seen one yet who was actually ugly.

 

And for me, it is actually that I like SHY guys. Not just quiet or introverted, but shy. I find it very cute. I don't mind loud and boisterous either, as long as it isn't cockiness, but I always have a soft spot for the shy ones.

[iris219]

I don't think he is, I think he's just saying that no matter how shy you are, if you're physically attractive (i.e. tall, good looking etc) then she will be attracted to you full stop.

 

Not my line of thoughts, but I do think that looks matter - just not in the way that people think.

 

^This. If you read my last post, I talk about the 55 year old man I find attractive. He has completely white hair and dorky glasses; he’s not by any stretch of the imagination a hot guy, but I liked something about him physically, even before I talked to him. So, yes, it matters if a woman finds you attractive, but all sorts of things attract different women.

 

He’s also a little awkward/nervous around me, but I don’t mind. I prefer guys who are humble and I think shyness or nervousness can be cute.

 

Yesterday I had about a 20 minute conversation with a girl I'm kinda into, but it was about her class, her coming internship and her house remodeling. There was no flirting, nothing sexual and honestly I was starting to get bored.

 

A conversation doesn't have to be sexual or even overtly flirtatious for it to be clear that the two people are getting a vibe from each other. My coworker and I are never in any way sexual or flirty (that would be very inappropriate at work), but I know he likes me and I assume he can tell I have some interest in him as well. Verbal communication is only a very small portion of communication. You need to start paying attention to how a woman reacts to you.

 

Do her eyes light up when you walk in the room? Does she ever give you what I call "sexy eyes." I do this coy head tilt, shoulder lift thing when I'm talking to a man I have interest in.

 

Sexual conversation or flirting isn't necessary to ascertain if there's interest.

[Hawakai]

I'm sorry, just based on my own experiences I have to disagree with a lot of what you are saying because I just don't see it.

 

I don't see hurricanes when I turn off the TV but the hurricane is still there. Plenty of guys are reporting the same occurences. Most of the guys who are virgins aren't going to turn to you and tell you '''hey, bro, I enjoyed the game, and by the way I'm a virgin.''

 

Even if you have a very developed friendship with the guy he's going to lie about it. Haven't you ever met those guys who are always bragging about sleeping with this and that girl and they never do?

 

I think that looks do matter and you guys do have a point there, but you guys exaggerate it too much IMO.

 

It might seem so, but I've met several guys above the norm and even they struggle with getting laid. I have friends with high social status, their own houses, a car, expensive clothes and very developed social skills and sometimes they have to resort to having sex with women who are nothing to look at because that's all there is.

 

How can the average guy fare better? How can the short guy hope for anything at all?

 

my brother is the same height as him and always gets girls.

 

Your brother has that swagger, the personal magnetism that can't be learned and only a very few guys have.

 

My grandfather wasn't attractive at all and he always had hot women buying him stuff and putting out in exchange for nothing. My oldest uncle is the same, and my youngest uncle looked like a boticelli angel - he was rather shy and with low-level social skills but he still got laid a lot.

 

Also, I actually like women so I don't have any trouble "putting" up with them without being desperate for sex. So that lifestyle is perfect for some - not for others .

 

Spend 8 hours a day surrounded by giggling women that never stop talking and you'll even grow to stop being attracted to them, regardless of how good-looking they are. Its like that internet meme: no matter how good-looking a woman is, there's always some guy tired of putting up with her ****.

Those "incels" might not be called creepy, but they are still doing it wrong. It's not because of their looks either. Any ugly numpty can get a girl, so stop making excuses.

 

Only when the girl is drunk or has no options. Most if not all women below the age of 35 can choose who they want, and why would they pick a fugly dude?

 

I am expecting the regular "white knight/virgin" insults that I regularly get from guys like you , but that is all I have to say.

 

Nah. Its dawning on me that its impossible to go against cognitive dissonances, so why bother.

[Hawakai]

Sure - look how many posts there are on here from guys whining about how ugly they are. And I haven't seen one yet who was actually ugly.

 

And for me, it is actually that I like SHY guys. Not just quiet or introverted, but shy. I find it very cute. I don't mind loud and boisterous either, as long as it isn't cockiness, but I always have a soft spot for the shy ones.

 

1 - below average.

2 - average-looking.

3- above-average looking.

 

Sexual attraction for most young women works based soley on how the guy looks. Which makes ''average-looking'' the same as ugly because it doesn't awaken sexual desire in the women.

[pteromom]

1 - below average.

2 - average-looking.

3- above-average looking.

 

Sexual attraction for most young women works based soley on how the guy looks. Which makes ''average-looking'' the same as ugly because it doesn't awaken sexual desire in the women.

 

I disagree with you. Looks were NEVER my #1 thing. When I was 20, I dated a guy who was in his 40s who wasn't traditionally attractive in any sense. Why was I attracted to him? Because he made me LAUGH - he was incredibly witty and sharp. And because he was very intelligent and helped me think and grow.

 

And I was a very good looking 20 year old.

 

And no - he didn't have a lot of money either.

 

I dated one guy who was very very good looking and muscular. The thing that got me hot for him though wasn't his looks. It was his strength. He could do this thing where he bear hugged me really tight and picked me up effortlessly, and it just made me swoon for him.

 

UGLY is subjective. The # of people who are truly UGLY is very low. Unless you have some major issue, I guarantee there is someone who finds you attractive.

 

One of the least attractive people I can think of is DJ Qualls, the skinny actor in Road Trip. I find him so unattractive, I actually don't like looking at him. Yet, a quick Google search turns up "DJ Qualls was so cute! <3 I love him to death." So while he does NOTHING for me, there's someone out there crazy about him. And he dated Nikki Reed - http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/011_nikkireed2_lordsofdogtownpr_jpg.jpg

 

There will always be some women who are only interested in a guy with a 6-pack and a chiseled chin and a full head of thick unruly hair. But for most of us, there are a wide variety of features and traits that can attract us to a man.

[Hawakai]

I disagree with you. Looks were NEVER my #1 thing. When I was 20, I dated a guy who was in his 40s who wasn't traditionally attractive in any sense. Why was I attracted to him? Because he made me LAUGH - he was incredibly witty and sharp. And because he was very intelligent and helped me think and grow.

 

And I was a very good looking 20 year old.

 

And no - he didn't have a lot of money either.

 

I dated one guy who was very very good looking and muscular. The thing that got me hot for him though wasn't his looks. It was his strength. He could do this thing where he bear hugged me really tight and picked me up effortlessly, and it just made me swoon for him.

 

UGLY is subjective. The # of people who are truly UGLY is very low. Unless you have some major issue, I guarantee there is someone who finds you attractive.

 

One of the least attractive people I can think of is DJ Qualls, the skinny actor in Road Trip. I find him so unattractive, I actually don't like looking at him. Yet, a quick Google search turns up "DJ Qualls was so cute! <3 I love him to death." So while he does NOTHING for me, there's someone out there crazy about him. And he dated Nikki Reed - http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/011_nikkireed2_lordsofdogtownpr_jpg.jpg

 

There will always be some women who are only interested in a guy with a 6-pack and a chiseled chin and a full head of thick unruly hair. But for most of us, there are a wide variety of features and traits that can attract us to a man.

 

 

I'm talking about the majority of women and I'm talking about women who are younger than 30. I've seen women date trolls around that age, but below the age of 30 the requirements for a woman to have sex with a guy are just too high.

 

Because he made me LAUGH - he was incredibly witty and sharp. And because he was very intelligent and helped me think and grow.

 

Its not hard to make most women laugh. Mention the weather, they laugh. Talk about something at all, they laugh. They're always laughing and smiling even when turning men down. Sometimes I hear women talk crap about eachother and guess what? They're laughing.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Hawakai

[somedude81]

Sure - look how many posts there are on here from guys whining about how ugly they are. And I haven't seen one yet who was actually ugly.

You do understand the difference between posting anonymously on the internet versus talking to somebody in person right?

 

Three fourths of the stuff I say on here I wouldn't tell another person when they know it's me saying it.

 

And for me, it is actually that I like SHY guys. Not just quiet or introverted, but shy. I find it very cute. I don't mind loud and boisterous either, as long as it isn't cockiness, but I always have a soft spot for the shy ones.

Eh, in my life, I've only seen shyness leading to solitude.

[pteromom]

below the age of 30 the requirements for a woman to have sex with a guy are just too high.

 

I don't agree with you. Women are varied and have different priorities, just like men do.

 

 

 

Its not hard to make most women laugh. Mention the weather, they laugh. Talk about something at all, they laugh. They're always laughing and smiling even when turning men down. Sometimes I hear women talk crap about eachother and guess what? They're laughing.

 

Maybe - but finding a guy who has that sharp wit and knows how to use it effectively in humor without crossing over into being insulting is not easy. Actually, it's much more difficult to find than a guy who is good looking.

[pteromom]

You do understand the difference between posting anonymously on the internet versus talking to somebody in person right?

 

Three fourths of the stuff I say on here I wouldn't tell another person when they know it's me saying it.

 

Sure - you wouldn't walk up to a girl and say "Hi, I hate myself and think I am hideous and awkward."

 

When you are dating someone, you find out that stuff pretty quickly though. It doesn't take long for the "you don't deserve me", "find someone better", "what do you see in me" comments to start, and then it becomes a matter of how long it takes for the self-hater to talk their bf/gf into agreeing.

[somedude81]

You can guide the conversation just as much as she can by how you respond to what she says. A "how did that happen", or a "I can relate to that because one time...." etc etc.

By guiding the conversation I meant changing the topic into something I thought was more interesting or would be able to participate in more and possibly go in a direction where I could make plans with her.

 

I almost felt like I was wasting my time talking to her about her class and the house remolding.

 

Odds that conversation had very little impact on her and she's probably forget it even happened.

IMO your issue is not that your quiet/shy, it's that your afraid. I bet you have no problem talking to a woman your not attracted to, but when you interact with a woman you are attracted to, you go into OMG don't F it up mode.

Nope, I talk to women I'm not attracted to in the same way I talk to the ones I'm very attracted to. It's all light and very casual. Though I try to spend more time talking to girls I think are pretty.

 

Things start to get difficult when I start thinking about asking a girl out. Once somebody gets put on that stage in my mind that I start to worry. So on a casual level I can talk to and joke with anybody no matter what they look like. But bring me to a point where I have to cross the friendly line and tell her that I desire her, that's when things start to go to sh*t.

 

 

Being a little nervous around someone your attracted to is normal, but your past writings points to you paralyzing yourself for fear of screwing up. So you let her do all the talking, and do just enough to keep the conversation going.

 

This leads to two thing, One, you knowing a lot about her and her knowing nothing about you. Two, you coming off as dull/boring, because again she knows nothing about you. This is how you are shooting yourself in the foot. She cant flirt with you, because she knows nothing about you. And you trying to do any serious flirting with her is going to weird her out because she doesn't know anything about you.

Yeah it's most likely true that in times when the girl does most of the talking she ends up not knowing much about me.

 

Frankly though, girls are pretty much professional talkers and it's hard for me to compete with them.

I don't think he is, I think he's just saying that no matter how shy you are, if you're physically attractive (i.e. tall, good looking etc) then she will be attracted to you full stop.

 

Not my line of thoughts, but I do think that looks matter - just not in the way that people think.

Not full stop, but if a girl is attracted to a guy, she'll be more interested in taking the extra effort to get the conversation going.

 

If the guy isn't good looking, she's not going to go out of her way to draw out a shy guy.