How they trick us into staying

[Ladydrib]

I'm assuming most of us who feel or have felt trapped in affairs, it is because the married person we were with got us to believe that they would eventually leave. They keep that hope alive and we are fearful that if we end it, that if only we had waited one more week, or month, that it would have worked out. In other words, we stay because we believe it's always just around the corner. But why do we think that? In my situation there were things he said, which I always suspected were crafted for that purpose, to keep me holding on, and these statements were not true. Do any statements your married person stand out in your mind as manipulative words, crafted to keep you in that suspended state of hope? If so, what were those phrases? The ones I heard were:

 

• If you end the affair, we will never be together because we are much more likely to move forward with a real relationship as long as we are still spending time together.

 

• I was much closer to leaving when we saw each other more often.

 

• I am leaving but I'm not ready yet.

 

• You better be sure you really want me.

 

Notice how it seemed to be in my control. If only I continue the affair then we will be together. And it also supports his willingness to let me walk away. It makes it "my fault" for walking away, and this false sense of control kept me in it, hoping and waiting.

 

What makes others feel powerless to leave the affair? (Answer this question for yourself and you might just figure out how to wiggle your way out of it too!) it's not easy, but it's been over two months for me and I continue to feel stronger as I do not have him pumping my head full of lies anymore.

[MissBee]

Great post!

 

My situation wasn't like that, in that there were no promises of leaving or any expectation of such; but, I can relate to that in another dead end relationship in which this man had no intention of ever being serious about me and having a legitimate relationship with a future...but would do just enough to make it seem that way. He liked my company, he was attracted to me, thought I was great, liked the sex and attention and conversation but he was not in love with me, neither was he on the market for a serious relationship. I was looking for that and he constantly dangled it and I thought staying around and showing him how great of a gf I could be would help him make a decision, I made excuses for why he wasn't committing to me by saying he was cautious, he was this, he was that....no...no one needs to do that! I have had the experience of being with someone READY and fully invested in me and know that there is a huuuuge difference! In the latter case we were on the same page, there was no anxiety, I never had to wait or worry, he kept me in the loop and all his actions and words were about us as a team building something together. I did not have to make excuses or be guilt-tripped or manipulated into feeling like I must be so "understanding" of all HIS problems/troubles/impossible situation and just hold his hand until random future time X....that is so emotionally abusive! The two situations are so different and I would RUN far away from any situation in which I felt like I had to play lady in waiting to some man's impossible life and promises....

 

No matter how much you love a MP or single person, if they are unwilling(due to kids, mortgage, cat, dog, job, lifestyle etc) to commit to you...then you can't force it and it is usually unwise to attempt to "wait" it out. Their actions show where they stand. This is not easy, but is when tough love, love for sef and boundaries come in handy. OW often feel bad to not "be there" but let's be real...this MM is a grown man. Why should you pander to him and all his needs while you're hurting and waiting??? What makes him oh so special that he requires all of your loyalty and infinite patience and understanding and why must you live in fear that if you don't act just so, accept everything, don't complain too much, listen always, promise to be there when he divorces etc. that he will pack up his "love" and leave??? That is emotional abuse!

 

A person who wants to be with you will work through the obstacles and find a way to figure it out, keep you in the loop and WON'T try to blame you or coerce you into feeling so bad for them and making it all your fault why they won't/can't. If they love you so much, they will understand why you can't sit around in limbo and will act accordingly. If not....you can move on. But it's one of the biggest SELF-DELUSIONS to stay promise after promise...as by then you KNOW something is off, but you're still hoping against hope. By then, yea they made false promises, but you gave yourself full permission to buy into it.

Edited November 11, 2012 by MissBee

[Ladydrib]

His response to me standing my ground was that I must no longer be in love with him then, and so he understands..

[suki1]

Whenever we reached a point where he said before he would move things forward and I got upset that he hadn't he would always tell me that I am worth so much more than he could give me and that he needed to let me go to find someone "worthy" of me. He would also say that he will come find me when he's changed his situation. Then he would enforce NC for a week or two, just long enough for me to be completely broken, then he would come back and tell me how much he missed me/can't breathe without me all the usual BS. That usually shut me up for a couple of months.

 

Proper shocked him the last time he did that and I didn't come running back.

[Ladydrib]

 

Proper shocked him the last time he did that and I didn't come running back.

 

I am sure it did shock him!!! Good for you, excellent work! How long has it been?

[suki1]

2 years now. Shocked myself too actually. I honestly thought it would make him get his act together and come looking for me. He came looking but hadn't sorted himself out so I never went back and eventually met someone else. Last heard from him back in February. In the end his own bull**** backfired I suppose

[veryhappy]

 

• I am leaving but I'm not ready yet.

 

• You better be sure you really want me.

 

 

These two, with the addition to the first that he wouldn't be able to go through without me, and he needs me to hold his hand (as a response to "you should get divorced on your own without me being there, for this to work out").

 

Also what suki said "You deserve better, you know that?".

 

I can't say that I felt that he trapped me, or that I felt powerless. I knew I'd end the A, it was just a question of building up the strength to stay NC, but I knew I would get there.

 

I wish we would have stopped at my first NC, and didn't go through all the months of the madness after, but I don't believe he was aware that he was just deperately clinging not to lose me, and wasn't actually going to want to have a R with me.

 

I wish I would have told him then "Let me know when you are divorced", but it seemed so cold and uncaring (unlike the caring,understanding me). Maybe that kept me trapped the most, him saying he couldn't go through it without me, but it was really me hoping and wanting to be with him. The good side is that I got a final response.

[Got it]

To me those are major red flags and I would have definitely taken note if dMM had come close to mentioning those things. I never saw him divorcing as a reflection of me or of us so comments that it would help move the pendulum "in my favor" would have been alarming.

 

My way of thinking about it, him being married and him divorcing was his baby to rock. I did not lean on him for my divorce and while I understood the struggles he was dealing with he was also adding in more balls into this already crowded juggling. So if that made things more difficult, that was really on him.

 

I was not going to be the crux or his support in his divorce. That is something he needed to do, be comfortable with, and own with or without me. I did not want to be the reason he divorced as I didn't want that hanging over my head or our relationship. The desire and impetus to divorce was something that you have to be committed to and outside forces should not factor in.

 

So if I heard anything to the contrary of "you need to do whatever makes you happy and I appreciate any and all support" I would have been pissed and quite alarmed.

[Tenacity]

His response to me standing my ground was that I must no longer be in love with him then, and so he understands..

 

This kind of comment is complete manipulative BS meant to defer all the blame for HIS situation back to you, and give you a nice guilt trip so that you will back down and apologize.

 

Actually I never felt 'tricked' into staying in the A. His actions over the course of the years showed me he cared for me and loved me (his voluntarily telling his W he loved me, etc). I do not believe he lied and tricked me into staying in the A. I believe that he truly wanted, and still wants, to be with me.

 

But in the end he DID NOT DO IT. Couldn't do it to his W and adult kids. It doesn't matter if he was trying to do it or not; the end result was what mattered. And he did not come through. He is where he wants to be, whatever the ressons are. The reasons don't matter.

 

I even tried the "just OW" thing for awhile, like some members who post here seem to be happy about. I spent a long time (years, not weeks) trying to convince myself I was good with that. I could still be in that today, if I wanted.

 

But at the end of the day, it just wasn't good enough for me, you know? No matter how much he tried to put me first, I was not his W. She had that role. I was just the side dish.

 

I remember one time when he got into a serious car accident and was hospitalized. No one would tell me anything. He was incapacitated and couldn't contact me. I couldn't be at the hospital because SHE was there. She belonged there and I did not. The worry that I felt during those days, not knowing what was going on, and the helplessness... I can't put words to how horrible it was.

 

That's when it first started to sink in. No matter what he said or did, no matter what I felt or believed... he had a wife. And I wasn't it. I was never going to be it. No matter what, I would always be second place. And it just wasn't good enough for me.

[FelicityShot]

I'm assuming most of us who feel or have felt trapped in affairs, it is because the married person we were with got us to believe that they would eventually leave. They keep that hope alive and we are fearful that if we end it, that if only we had waited one more week, or month, that it would have worked out. In other words, we stay because we believe it's always just around the corner. But why do we think that? In my situation there were things he said, which I always suspected were crafted for that purpose, to keep me holding on, and these statements were not true. Do any statements your married person stand out in your mind as manipulative words, crafted to keep you in that suspended state of hope? If so, what were those phrases? The ones I heard were:

 

• If you end the affair, we will never be together because we are much more likely to move forward with a real relationship as long as we are still spending time together.

 

• I was much closer to leaving when we saw each other more often.

 

• I am leaving but I'm not ready yet.

 

• You better be sure you really want me.

 

Notice how it seemed to be in my control. If only I continue the affair then we will be together. And it also supports his willingness to let me walk away. It makes it "my fault" for walking away, and this false sense of control kept me in it, hoping and waiting.

 

What makes others feel powerless to leave the affair? (Answer this question for yourself and you might just figure out how to wiggle your way out of it too!) it's not easy, but it's been over two months for me and I continue to feel stronger as I do not have him pumping my head full of lies anymore.

 

 

People in As like As.

 

When they feel it's not working for them, for reasons of love, ego or practicality, they leave. It will happen pretty quickly if they don't really like As deep down. It's not that they don't like you...

 

Alternatively, you might think people in As fall in love but hit a wall of societal and socio-economic pressure. Plus a mind f of truth vs integrity and compassion.

 

Strength mixed with compassion enables people to end As.

[Barrsitter]

LD...you got it right!

 

MMs trick us in to staying by lying about their commitment to us. My xmm told me we would finish what we started (in high school) and made all kinds of promises. He was a lying sack of ****. I wish I could be more generous and magnanimous but I can't. If I ever see him again (which I hope I will not) I will tell him to go F-himself.

[StEwPiD_MoNkEy]

I'm assuming most of us who feel or have felt trapped in affairs, it is because the married person we were with got us to believe that they would eventually leave. They keep that hope alive and we are fearful that if we end it, that if only we had waited one more week, or month, that it would have worked out. In other words, we stay because we believe it's always just around the corner. But why do we think that? In my situation there were things he said, which I always suspected were crafted for that purpose, to keep me holding on, and these statements were not true. Do any statements your married person stand out in your mind as manipulative words, crafted to keep you in that suspended state of hope? If so, what were those phrases? The ones I heard were:

 

• If you end the affair, we will never be together because we are much more likely to move forward with a real relationship as long as we are still spending time together.

 

• I was much closer to leaving when we saw each other more often.

 

• I am leaving but I'm not ready yet.

 

• You better be sure you really want me.

 

Notice how it seemed to be in my control. If only I continue the affair then we will be together. And it also supports his willingness to let me walk away. It makes it "my fault" for walking away, and this false sense of control kept me in it, hoping and waiting.

 

What makes others feel powerless to leave the affair? (Answer this question for yourself and you might just figure out how to wiggle your way out of it too!) it's not easy, but it's been over two months for me and I continue to feel stronger as I do not have him pumping my head full of lies anymore.

 

I have been reading through LS and am quite sad to see the level of immaturity on the OW's or OM's part.

I am currently a MM with an OW. I think the point here is as much honesty as possible. But if the OW or OM is single, they need to understand that they are single. If asked, my OW will tell you that she has a free pass to leave whenever she wants and I DO NOT promise her anything. I may or may not leave my wife. I love how most want to express, "well then he/she will leave their spouse for you". How unfair is that? How unrealistic. I have even gone as far as to tell my OW that even if I were to divorce, I would not be her "boyfriend" right away as I need time to get myself together. Also, if we were to continue after my divorce, she shouldn't be a rebound so, we will need time just to date before a full blown relationship. She has expressed that if she finds a guy that goes after her, she is entitled to say yes.

 

People wake up. Your emotional self worth does not relay on others. I have been the OM before and I let it be known that even though I accept the situation as it is, there are certain things that I need to be made known. Roles and responsibilities. Now if the OW/OM wants to continue on from there, well that is their choice.

 

As far as the marriage goes, when there are other factors involved it's not always clear cut. I've expressed my dissatisfaction to my wife.

 

This is my second marriage ( yes I know you will hate and make some personal attack about that.) Towards the end of my marriage I got involved with AW. We dated for about 4 months. She came to me as an adult and told me that a gentleman has asked her out and she likes him. She really liked me but I couldn't give her what she wanted right then. Long story short, she and this gentleman got married. I eventually got divorced and even attended their wedding. She is one of my good friends to this day. Why? Because we both understood our roles and were honest.

 

As the OM, I dated a married woman. There was one point where she told me that her and her husband were going to work things out so when that time came we were done. When that time came I wished her well and we stayed in touch. During that time I dated other W and enjoyed my single life.

 

Nothing is ever perfect. People lie, and people deceive. It's a fact of life. But if you can act like an adult and truly understand the situation then yes, it can be very fulfilling for both parties.

 

This weekend my OW and I are going on a vacation. I don't know what the future holds and as I have said, I don't promise her a thing. But, I always treat her with respect and caring and if we should stop, I never get divorced or she finds someone else, I hope that we can find a way to stay in each others lives simply because she is a friend and I enjoy her company and counsel.

 

So if you are the MM, MW, OW or OM. Be realistic about your and the other persons role. Don't be selfish and make it all about you, but at the same time, look out of your interests and your own life. If it works out, great. If not, perhaps you have made a bond that will last years.

[StEwPiD_MoNkEy]

Great post!

 

My situation wasn't like that, in that there were no promises of leaving or any expectation of such; but, I can relate to that in another dead end relationship in which this man had no intention of ever being serious about me and having a legitimate relationship with a future...but would do just enough to make it seem that way. He liked my company, he was attracted to me, thought I was great, liked the sex and attention and conversation but he was not in love with me, neither was he on the market for a serious relationship. I was looking for that and he constantly dangled it and I thought staying around and showing him how great of a gf I could be would help him make a decision, I made excuses for why he wasn't committing to me by saying he was cautious, he was this, he was that....no...no one needs to do that! I have had the experience of being with someone READY and fully invested in me and know that there is a huuuuge difference! In the latter case we were on the same page, there was no anxiety, I never had to wait or worry, he kept me in the loop and all his actions and words were about us as a team building something together. I did not have to make excuses or be guilt-tripped or manipulated into feeling like I must be so "understanding" of all HIS problems/troubles/impossible situation and just hold his hand until random future time X....that is so emotionally abusive! The two situations are so different and I would RUN far away from any situation in which I felt like I had to play lady in waiting to some man's impossible life and promises....

 

No matter how much you love a MP or single person, if they are unwilling(due to kids, mortgage, cat, dog, job, lifestyle etc) to commit to you...then you can't force it and it is usually unwise to attempt to "wait" it out. Their actions show where they stand. This is not easy, but is when tough love, love for sef and boundaries come in handy. OW often feel bad to not "be there" but let's be real...this MM is a grown man. Why should you pander to him and all his needs while you're hurting and waiting??? What makes him oh so special that he requires all of your loyalty and infinite patience and understanding and why must you live in fear that if you don't act just so, accept everything, don't complain too much, listen always, promise to be there when he divorces etc. that he will pack up his "love" and leave??? That is emotional abuse!

 

A person who wants to be with you will work through the obstacles and find a way to figure it out, keep you in the loop and WON'T try to blame you or coerce you into feeling so bad for them and making it all your fault why they won't/can't. If they love you so much, they will understand why you can't sit around in limbo and will act accordingly. If not....you can move on. But it's one of the biggest SELF-DELUSIONS to stay promise after promise...as by then you KNOW something is off, but you're still hoping against hope. By then, yea they made false promises, but you gave yourself full permission to buy into it.

 

 

You contradict yourself. If this wasn't your situation then how can you understand. Yes, the MM is a grown person and shouldn't promise a thing. At the same time, you as the OW/OM, should realize that the MP cannot promise anything. If you stick around or leave that is entirely your choice. My OW understands that she has a free pass to stop things. She always asks me what would happen if she does. I tell her the realistic truth. It's her choice and as long as she is straight forward, I have no bad feelings towards her and will still be there if she needs me as a friend. She goes out with her friends, she has even been on a date or two. She always tells me that she loves the fact that I am straight forward with her and don't say things just to sleep with her. As a matter of fact one of the reasons why she started sleeping with me is because from the jump I told her, "I make no promises to you." She tells me that if she does meet someone and we do end, she knows that I'll be there for her. And she is right.

 

Everyone looks at the end picture. What if it works, what if it doesn't. Maybe this is a naive outlook, but what ever happened to just enjoying the person? What ever happened to creating a bond with someone? I tell her that everyday is a day that I am happy she is still around. Should that change, then I'll be happy with the time we had. Enjoy your OW/OM/MM/MW. Things in the end will work out the way they will. But if your honest and realistic, you've gained more than you will ever lose.

[MissBee]

You contradict yourself. If this wasn't your situation then how can you understand. Yes, the MM is a grown person and shouldn't promise a thing. At the same time, you as the OW/OM, should realize that the MP cannot promise anything. If you stick around or leave that is entirely your choice. My OW understands that she has a free pass to stop things. She always asks me what would happen if she does. I tell her the realistic truth. It's her choice and as long as she is straight forward, I have no bad feelings towards her and will still be there if she needs me as a friend. She goes out with her friends, she has even been on a date or two. She always tells me that she loves the fact that I am straight forward with her and don't say things just to sleep with her. As a matter of fact one of the reasons why she started sleeping with me is because from the jump I told her, "I make no promises to you." She tells me that if she does meet someone and we do end, she knows that I'll be there for her. And she is right.

 

Everyone looks at the end picture. What if it works, what if it doesn't. Maybe this is a naive outlook, but what ever happened to just enjoying the person? What ever happened to creating a bond with someone? I tell her that everyday is a day that I am happy she is still around. Should that change, then I'll be happy with the time we had. Enjoy your OW/OM/MM/MW. Things in the end will work out the way they will. But if your honest and realistic, you've gained more than you will ever lose.

 

Did you not read when I said it wasn't my situation in the A but I experienced similar (the promises and waiting when there was no intention of going forward) in a single relationship?

 

As for the rest of what you're saying, that is good for you and your OW, I certainly am not here to tell you otherwise. But some people want more than some intangible "bond". The thread is talking about those MPs who make false promises...if you haven't then what does your situation have to do with the premise of the thread?

[Got it]

You contradict yourself. If this wasn't your situation then how can you understand. Yes, the MM is a grown person and shouldn't promise a thing. At the same time, you as the OW/OM, should realize that the MP cannot promise anything. If you stick around or leave that is entirely your choice. My OW understands that she has a free pass to stop things. She always asks me what would happen if she does. I tell her the realistic truth. It's her choice and as long as she is straight forward, I have no bad feelings towards her and will still be there if she needs me as a friend. She goes out with her friends, she has even been on a date or two. She always tells me that she loves the fact that I am straight forward with her and don't say things just to sleep with her. As a matter of fact one of the reasons why she started sleeping with me is because from the jump I told her, "I make no promises to you." She tells me that if she does meet someone and we do end, she knows that I'll be there for her. And she is right.

 

Everyone looks at the end picture. What if it works, what if it doesn't. Maybe this is a naive outlook, but what ever happened to just enjoying the person? What ever happened to creating a bond with someone? I tell her that everyday is a day that I am happy she is still around. Should that change, then I'll be happy with the time we had. Enjoy your OW/OM/MM/MW. Things in the end will work out the way they will. But if your honest and realistic, you've gained more than you will ever lose.

 

SM- not everyone, male and female, follows this line. I agree that we need to look out for ourselves. But my affair was based on a few agreed upon understandings. Whether or not a MP should promise something doesn't necessarily negate if they do. I was married as was he and there was a certain timeline in place that both parties were expected to follow.

 

Now if a MP says they are just in it to be in it, then yes I think it is counterproductive for the OP to assume otherwise. That is definitely not setting things up for success.

 

It comes down to both parties walking the talk, whatever the talk may be.

 

And yes, living in the NOW is a good way to live. While that doesn't mean there can't be certain expectations of others, it is better to focus on today and focusing on the future or the past. Neither one of those can be impacted. A good book in relation to this (and a very easy read) The Present: The Gift That Makes You Happier and More Successful at Work and In Life, Today by Spencer Johnson.

[Tenacity]

I have been reading through LS and am quite sad to see the level of immaturity on the OW's or OM's part.

I am currently a MM with an OW. I think the point here is as much honesty as possible. But if the OW or OM is single, they need to understand that they are single. If asked, my OW will tell you that she has a free pass to leave whenever she wants and I DO NOT promise her anything. I may or may not leave my wife. I love how most want to express, "well then he/she will leave their spouse for you". How unfair is that? How unrealistic. I have even gone as far as to tell my OW that even if I were to divorce, I would not be her "boyfriend" right away as I need time to get myself together. Also, if we were to continue after my divorce, she shouldn't be a rebound so, we will need time just to date before a full blown relationship. She has expressed that if she finds a guy that goes after her, she is entitled to say yes.

 

People wake up. Your emotional self worth does not relay on others. I have been the OM before and I let it be known that even though I accept the situation as it is, there are certain things that I need to be made known. Roles and responsibilities. Now if the OW/OM wants to continue on from there, well that is their choice.

 

As far as the marriage goes, when there are other factors involved it's not always clear cut. I've expressed my dissatisfaction to my wife.

 

This is my second marriage ( yes I know you will hate and make some personal attack about that.) Towards the end of my marriage I got involved with AW. We dated for about 4 months. She came to me as an adult and told me that a gentleman has asked her out and she likes him. She really liked me but I couldn't give her what she wanted right then. Long story short, she and this gentleman got married. I eventually got divorced and even attended their wedding. She is one of my good friends to this day. Why? Because we both understood our roles and were honest.

 

As the OM, I dated a married woman. There was one point where she told me that her and her husband were going to work things out so when that time came we were done. When that time came I wished her well and we stayed in touch. During that time I dated other W and enjoyed my single life.

 

Nothing is ever perfect. People lie, and people deceive. It's a fact of life. But if you can act like an adult and truly understand the situation then yes, it can be very fulfilling for both parties.

 

This weekend my OW and I are going on a vacation. I don't know what the future holds and as I have said, I don't promise her a thing. But, I always treat her with respect and caring and if we should stop, I never get divorced or she finds someone else, I hope that we can find a way to stay in each others lives simply because she is a friend and I enjoy her company and counsel.

 

So if you are the MM, MW, OW or OM. Be realistic about your and the other persons role. Don't be selfish and make it all about you, but at the same time, look out of your interests and your own life. If it works out, great. If not, perhaps you have made a bond that will last years.

 

Stupid Monkey,

 

I am honestly confused as to why you are posting on this thread. You are a MM who is a serial cheater with relationships that are clearly 'friends with benefits'. That is a completely different kind of situation than what is being expressed by the original poster of this thread.

 

Many OW or OM are in A's in which they are lied to or deceived. That was the point of the thread. I posted a reply earlier to make the point that not all MM (or MW) lie and deceive as a mechanism to get people to stay in an affair - mine didn't. But it wasn't a 'friends with benefits' type of A, either... there were future plans made with honesty and intentions on both sides, even though my MM didn't follow through. Either way, there wasn't an agreement up front that it would be 'friends with benefits'.

 

It is easy to "be realistic about your and the other person's role" if those roles are honestly defined up front. However that is often not the case - whether there are lies/manipulation involved or whether there are intense emotions involved. So you are in a situation that does not relate to this thread at all.

 

Your style of serial cheating with women who you do not become emotionally attached to beyond friendship is only one type of A, so to come on here and suggest that everyone should have your approach is - in my opinion - both unrealistic and ridiculous. Many people here, including myself, would never approach an A like a business contract in the way that you do. It's all good for you however, and whatever floats your boat... although I personally do not agree with your implication that your approach is more "mature".

[2sunny]

I'm assuming most of us who feel or have felt trapped in affairs, it is because the married person we were with got us to believe that they would eventually leave. They keep that hope alive and we are fearful that if we end it, that if only we had waited one more week, or month, that it would have worked out. In other words, we stay because we believe it's always just around the corner. But why do we think that? In my situation there were things he said, which I always suspected were crafted for that purpose, to keep me holding on, and these statements were not true. Do any statements your married person stand out in your mind as manipulative words, crafted to keep you in that suspended state of hope? If so, what were those phrases? The ones I heard were:

 

• If you end the affair, we will never be together because we are much more likely to move forward with a real relationship as long as we are still spending time together.

 

• I was much closer to leaving when we saw each other more often.

 

• I am leaving but I'm not ready yet.

 

• You better be sure you really want me.

 

Notice how it seemed to be in my control. If only I continue the affair then we will be together. And it also supports his willingness to let me walk away. It makes it "my fault" for walking away, and this false sense of control kept me in it, hoping and waiting.

 

What makes others feel powerless to leave the affair? (Answer this question for yourself and you might just figure out how to wiggle your way out of it too!) it's not easy, but it's been over two months for me and I continue to feel stronger as I do not have him pumping my head full of lies anymore.

 

I disagree - mainly with what REALLY happens.

MM leave with or without the OW. They leave when THEY decide its over - OR - when his wife decides FOR him.

 

Any words he may TELL YOU are just words with NO action on HIS part.

 

And staying (as his OW) that is definitely a choice that all OW/OM make.

 

They all have choices.

 

Those choices are evident my where they stay - OR - IF they end it!

 

To hand so much of your power to ANY man - that YOU feel you are at the mercy of HIM - is completely out of balance and UNNECESSARY!

 

YOU have choices - it's all dependent upon WISE CHOICES FOR YOUR BEST INTEREST.

[Ladydrib]

I disagree - mainly with what REALLY happens.

MM leave with or without the OW. They leave when THEY decide its over - OR - when his wife decides FOR him.

 

Any words he may TELL YOU are just words with NO action on HIS part.

 

And staying (as his OW) that is definitely a choice that all OW/OM make.

 

They all have choices.

 

Those choices are evident my where they stay - OR - IF they end it!

 

To hand so much of your power to ANY man - that YOU feel you are at the mercy of HIM - is completely out of balance and UNNECESSARY!

 

YOU have choices - it's all dependent upon WISE CHOICES FOR YOUR BEST INTEREST.

 

How reliable are your own choices when they have been influenced by someone else's lies which were presented as truths?

 

You're speaking from the perspective in which lies did not play a role, and in which case I agree with you as well as the stupid monkey.

[2sunny]

How reliable are your own choices when they have been influenced by someone else's lies which were presented as truths?

 

You're speaking from the perspective in which lies did not play a role, and in which case I agree with you as well as the stupid monkey.

 

Even when someone is lying - there are ways to see where the truth is.

 

Are you saying you NEVER suspected or knew your MM was married?

[Ladydrib]

I posted this for people who have been lied to to help them to stop believing the lies. It's really hard to believe when

 

1. The truth is hutful

 

And

 

2. You trust the person who is lying

 

I'm sure this is also how betrayed spouses feel, because dishonesty is toxic. It creates an environment where (yes your own decision) holds you in a destructive pattern for the chance that your hope (and his lies) are in fact truth. Our power as victims of liars lies in our own ability to detangle their layers meant to hold us where they want us and seeing through to the reality which is very much not clear. It involves huge risks, risks as in us losing this person we believe is do wonderful, and they, as liars have us positioned to fear losing them as a mechanism to control us. It's a complex emotional predicament that is not easy to pry yourself out of.

[Ladydrib]

Even when someone is lying - there are ways to see where the truth is.

 

Are you saying you NEVER suspected or knew your MM was married?

 

No. I'm saying I believed what he said. And I did find a way to get to the truth. And my post was meant to help others who have not discovered the truth to identify where they were being manipulated, so hopefully they too could find their way out. And I'd also like to hear what they were told to keep my mind from bouncing back to self doubt, which liars are great at making people doubt themselves. It requires constant self validation for quite a long time after such an experience. You always hear "what if he was telling the truth, and I'm screwing it all up". That goes through your mind day in and day our for months. I'm still waiting for it to stop.

[Ladydrib]

This kind of comment is complete manipulative BS meant to defer all the blame for HIS situation back to you, and give you a nice guilt trip so that you will back down and apologize.

 

Actually I never felt 'tricked' into staying in the A. His actions over the course of the years showed me he cared for me and loved me (his voluntarily telling his W he loved me, etc). I do not believe he lied and tricked me into staying in the A. I believe that he truly wanted, and still wants, to be with me.

 

But in the end he DID NOT DO IT. Couldn't do it to his W and adult kids. It doesn't matter if he was trying to do it or not; the end result was what mattered. And he did not come through. He is where he wants to be, whatever the ressons are. The reasons don't matter.

 

I even tried the "just OW" thing for awhile, like some members who post here seem to be happy about. I spent a long time (years, not weeks) trying to convince myself I was good with that. I could still be in that today, if I wanted.

 

But at the end of the day, it just wasn't good enough for me, you know? No matter how much he tried to put me first, I was not his W. She had that role. I was just the side dish.

 

I remember one time when he got into a serious car accident and was hospitalized. No one would tell me anything. He was incapacitated and couldn't contact me. I couldn't be at the hospital because SHE was there. She belonged there and I did not. The worry that I felt during those days, not knowing what was going on, and the helplessness... I can't put words to how horrible it was.

 

That's when it first started to sink in. No matter what he said or did, no matter what I felt or believed... he had a wife. And I wasn't it. I was never going to be it. No matter what, I would always be second place. And it just wasn't good enough for me.

 

Thank you. This is exactly the kind of validation I need to continue to believe in my intuition rather than his words.

[Tenacity]

Even when someone is lying - there are ways to see where the truth is.

 

Are you saying you NEVER suspected or knew your MM was married?

 

Well, I knew MM was married all along, but I trusted what he told me because there was no question as to how he felt and that he meant it... not for a long time. He told his W he loved me without me asking. He moved out. His actions went along with his words and emotions for a LONG time. What way would there be to see the truth during that time? I believed in him with all my heart - and I am a smart woman - I don't trust easily.

 

However I'm sure he didn't wake up one day and just decide he couldn't do it. So along the way, it did end up being lies not just to her, but to both of us.

[Tenacity]

No. I'm saying I believed what he said. And I did find a way to get to the truth. And my post was meant to help others who have not discovered the truth to identify where they were being manipulated, so hopefully they too could find their way out. And I'd also like to hear what they were told to keep my mind from bouncing back to self doubt, which liars are great at making people doubt themselves. It requires constant self validation for quite a long time after such an experience. You always hear "what if he was telling the truth, and I'm screwing it all up". That goes through your mind day in and day our for months. I'm still waiting for it to stop.

 

Do you see him as being a liar and manipulator all along, or do you think he was telling you the truth (as he believed it to be) at least part of the time?

 

You are right about liars making people doubt themselves. That was probably the hardest thing for me - coming away from the experience doubting myself - not only my intuition, but even things that I supposedly did or did not do. Things that should have been very clear cut and objective. That's how damaged I was at first when I finally got away from it - I no longer knew what was the truth in terms of my own self. Now that is scary.

[Ladydrib]

Do you see him as being a liar and manipulator all along, or do you think he was telling you the truth (as he believed it to be) at least part of the time?

 

You are right about liars making people doubt themselves. That was probably the hardest thing for me - coming away from the experience doubting myself - not only my intuition, but even things that I supposedly did or did not do. Things that should have been very clear cut and objective. That's how damaged I was at first when I finally got away from it - I no longer knew what was the truth in terms of my own self. Now that is scary.

 

I cycled on a weekly, sometimes daily basis, between believing he was genuine and wondering if I was being a fool. I'm very direct so the idea of someone misleading someone else goes against my intuition too. I just didn't know what to believe and I was driven by fear in that I didn't want to lose him because of fear. I wanted to be sure, but when you're fed lies, it's tricky to get to a mindset of being sure. Unless they finally admit it, you never really get closure. You have to finally make them a villain in order to really let go of hope.