frozensprouts Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 There is a thread running in the other man/woman section , and one of the points that caught my eye was the idea that an other man/woman shouldn't tell a betrayed spouse about the affair because they shouldn't get involved in the marriage. I find this onset pretty disingenuous, as it's other woman that say this...how on earth can an other woman feel they are not involved in the marriage? Seems sort of hypocritical to me... I know that when my husband way having and affair, it most certainly had an impact on our marriage 7
Spark1111 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 I think once you are involved in an affair and have created a secret triangular relationship, whether you realize it or not, you are involved as an interloper to the marriage. If you are sleeping with my man, of course you are a part of my marriage, unbeknownst to me. 7
Furious Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 There is a thread running in the other man/woman section , and one of the points that caught my eye was the idea that an other man/woman shouldn't tell a betrayed spouse about the affair because they shouldn't get involved in the marriage. I find this onset pretty disingenuous, as it's other woman that say this...how on earth can an other woman feel they are not involved in the marriage? Seems sort of hypocritical to me... I know that when my husband way having and affair, it most certainly had an impact on our marriage It's ironic that some OW may think they're not involved in the marriage, when it's the marriage that becomes the juggling block for scheduling their time with the MM. The OW is an invisible affect in the marriage, with the advantage of knowing the wife exists and with the benefit that the wife doesn't know of her existence. If anything it's the wife that's not involved in the affair and the OW is definitely involved in the "marriage" Until D-day, that's when the playing field levels, and all three in the triangle are equally involved. 8
Silly_Girl Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 My view is that it isn't the OW's place to tell and the MM should absolutely take that responsibility and run with it. The affair is a result of HIS choices... his choice to marry in the first place, and his choice to then cheat. It's certainly with him to inform the wife. If he doesn't the OW can choose to do so if she wishes, but should feel no obligation. 2
Furious Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 My view is that it isn't the OW's place to tell and the MM should absolutely take that responsibility and run with it. The affair is a result of HIS choices... his choice to marry in the first place, and his choice to then cheat. It's certainly with him to inform the wife. If he doesn't the OW can choose to do so if she wishes, but should feel no obligation. The topic is not about whether the OW is obligated or not to inform the spouse, but rather the view by some OW that they are not involved in any way with the marriage. 5
whichwayisup Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 They aren't involved in the marriage, but I've read that (some) they try to put demands on a MM that actually do affect the marriage, especially behind closed doors. If one chooses to have an affair with a MM or MW, then you (general you) know going in that he sleeps in the same bed, they 'live' life together (aka, holidays, family outings, etc) and that includes sex -Then accept all that. An OW or OM has no right to tell or demand/ask their MM/MW not to have sex with their spouse. If one can't handle it, then don't ask if they do. Pretend they don't or just put it out your head. 6
Silly_Girl Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 The topic is not about whether the OW is obligated or not to inform the spouse, but rather the view by some OW that they are not involved in any way with the marriage. I agree that the OW is not involved though, and by telling the spouse would become so. The OW has no influence on how the MM behaves within the marriage and most do not contact the spouse at all, the marriage is a separate entity. 2
beenburned Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 SG, There are many stories here by BSs that tell just how bad the WS changed during the time they were cheating! I am one of them. My H turned into someone the kids and I didn't even recognize. I have often heard the term "alien" to described the complete personality change. Me and my kids suffered much emotional abuse from his neglect and anger during the time he was cheating. Before this he was a devoted H and father who bragged about his happy marriage and kids! So, most definitely the OW and the whole EMA itself, have influenced the WS against his marriage, spouse, and kids. There is no way an affair is NOT a triangle! The OW is involved in the marriage by the simple fact the WS is married, not single. 8
Author frozensprouts Posted November 11, 2012 Author Posted November 11, 2012 I agree that the OW is not involved though, and by telling the spouse would become so. The OW has no influence on how the MM behaves within the marriage and most do not contact the spouse at all, the marriage is a separate entity. I mean no disrespect, but that has to be one of the strangest lines of reasoning that I've ever heard. Maybe it assuages the guilt of an other man/woman to think that the affair has no effect on the marriage...but really, do you honestly think that's true? I'm sure it makes it easier for an other woman to believe this ( most aren't terrible people who get their jollies out of hurting someone else) , but the reality is that the affair affects a marriage, and without the other man/woman, there would be no affair ( well, maybe there would be, but it wouldn't be with them). It's pretty disingenuous to think otherwise. I know it may be easier for an other man/woman to believe that the affair isn't affecting someone else, but as much as it might upset them to know it, that's not for them to decide. They don't get to say whether or not it's affecting the marriage, as they are not the betrayed spouse. That's for them to decide, and if they feel it was affected, it was affected. It's kind of like having a spouse who's an alcoholic. The alcohol most definitely becomes a part of the marriage, as it influences the alcoholics behavior, actions and choices. How could it not? Unless the married person is able to completely emotionally separate all parts of their life, that's just not possible. As for whether the actions of other man/woman damages causes damage to the marriage...it's like the driver of a bank robbers get away car. They may not have robbed the bank, but they helped commit the crime . Without them, the crime wouldn't have happened, or at least it wouldn't have happened with them involved. Maybe the robber would have had to find someone else to drive, maybe they would have robbed the bank and left on foot, maybe they wouldn't have robbed the bank at all...( and yes, I fully realize that having an affair is not a crime) 7
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 The topic is not about whether the OW is obligated or not to inform the spouse, but rather the view by some OW that they are not involved in any way with the marriage. Yet, many of these same women claim that the marriage IS their business. I've gotten into it more than one time about that. The marriage is "dead," the wife is fat, the wife is sexless, she is psycho, etc. Recently, one OW claimed that she is certainly entitled to knowing about any relationship the man SHE is involved with is having. Of course, this is not an entitlement that extends to the wife. Regarding telling - I do think that the betrayed would be best off knowing, even though in some cases they don't want to know. It's a slippery slope, though, telling. The OW would be doing the best for herself if she were telling because she felt that it was right - rather than to wreck the MM's life because he failed to deliver on his promises. Actions taken out of spite and vengefulness usually come to no good ... 6
eleanorrigby Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 My biggest laugh in this argument is the OW that will say the wife has to know about the affair, how could she not know?! But then again they say they have no affect on the marriage, it's a separate entity, never the twain shall meet, etc. How is a BS supposed to know about something, that has NO effect on the marriage and her daily life? 4
alexandria35 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 My biggest laugh in this argument is the OW that will say the wife has to know about the affair, how could she not know?! But then again they say they have no affect on the marriage, it's a separate entity, never the twain shall meet, etc. How is a BS supposed to know about something, that has NO effect on the marriage and her daily life? Good point. And look at how many OW/OM give their marrried lovers ultimatums to leave the marriage or else. If demanding that someone leave their marriage isn't involving onself in anothers marriage then what is? I think OW/OM are involved in the marriage and they like it that way. They know private intimate details of the marriage, they often know private intimate details of the BS and the kids, and they use all that information to further their cause. Then they can counsel the MM/MW to leave and say it's for their own good. Or at the very least they use that information to one up the BS. They (I'm talking about some, not all) often become furious if they suspect that thier MM/MW has had sex or spent any quality time with their spouse. Most OW/OM have a huge interest in the MM/MW's marriage and often claim to know exactly what goes on in that marriage right down to the nitty gritty details. Affairs have a huge negative effect on marriages just like any other unhealthy activity would. Not only do people in affairs become distant and unloving towards their spouse I have seen many people say they even begin to treat their own children poorly. Pushing them away, ignoring them, being short with them etc. The OW/OM like knowing that things are bad in the family home and are usually all to happy to speed up the process. They enjoy being involved in the marriage but they like to stay hidden while they do it. They don't want to tell the BS the truth because it would out them as the OW/OM and it might spoil the affair. Thats why most of the ones who do tell only do so when the affair has already ended or when they are desperate to force the MM/MW to leave. Otherwise they prefer to stay in the shadows. I for one would be so impressed by an OW/OM who marched right up to the BS at the onset of the affair and introduced themselves and let the BS know their intentions. "Hello BS, I'm so and so and I'm sleeping with your spouse. I want him/her to leave you and your family home for me. Just wanted to let you know so we're on an even playing field and all is fair. Now let the games begin" LOL...now that would be impressive. 9
mercy Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 There is a thread running in the other man/woman section , and one of the points that caught my eye was the idea that an other man/woman shouldn't tell a betrayed spouse about the affair because they shouldn't get involved in the marriage. I find this onset pretty disingenuous, as it's other woman that say this...how on earth can an other woman feel they are not involved in the marriage? Seems sort of hypocritical to me... I know that when my husband way having and affair, it most certainly had an impact on our marriage Not involved in the marriage? Really? They are an intruder in the marriage. Just ridiculous thinking. Logical sense can't be made of the illogical. Is an OOW involved in an OW and MM's affair? How dare the OOW... 6
KathyM Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 Of course an OW/OM is involved in the marriage--they are acting to destroy it. They are a willing participant in the triangle. Their actions negatively impact the marriage. They like to think they are separate from the marriage and not affecting it in order to justify what they are doing, but of course, some people will compartmentalize and justify their actions to coincide with their desires. If they were on the receiving end of a deception, their opinion on this would be different. 6
Furious Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 The OW has no influence on how the MM behaves within the marriage and most do not contact the spouse at all, the marriage is a separate entity. In order for the MM to be with the OW he must lie about his whereabouts, and the OW is a participant in those lies, and how can that NOT be influencing how the MM behaves. When the OW is with the MM, she knows he's lied to his wife and many times even to his children about where he really is and with whom. lol...calling the marriage a "separate entity", is delusional, the entire triangle is one entity, and many OW will debate the triangle, as if the three lines are separate and do not connect. Smoke and mirrors, and maybe the sky is not blue. 8
Summer Breeze Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 XHs OW wasn't involved with my M. She was involved with my H and his choice of that happening changed his life with me. She heard what he chose to tell her and every lie to me was from his lips. She had no involvement with my M but she had every involvement with my xH. His actions to me were completely down to his choices no matter who they involved. As an OW I can say I didn't have any interest in their M and we never talked about it. I told him what I expected out of our R and he agreed. I set the bar high enough I think I figured he wouldn't proceed but he did. I chose to be involved with him but the choice to have an A was squarely on him. As with my xH he could have walked away a million times. I wonder if the problem in this issue is that some are looking at involvement and impact as the same thing. I look at involvement as hands on and direct involvement with a situation in every aspect. I agree the OW/OM, as being part of the A, have impact on the M. If an OW/OM moves to tell the BS it becomes active involvement. That's my take on it and how I see it.
eleanorrigby Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 XHs OW wasn't involved with my M. She was involved with my H and his choice of that happening changed his life with me. She heard what he chose to tell her and every lie to me was from his lips. She had no involvement with my M but she had every involvement with my xH. His actions to me were completely down to his choices no matter who they involved. As an OW I can say I didn't have any interest in their M and we never talked about it. I told him what I expected out of our R and he agreed. I set the bar high enough I think I figured he wouldn't proceed but he did. I chose to be involved with him but the choice to have an A was squarely on him. As with my xH he could have walked away a million times. I wonder if the problem in this issue is that some are looking at involvement and impact as the same thing. I look at involvement as hands on and direct involvement with a situation in every aspect. I agree the OW/OM, as being part of the A, have impact on the M. If an OW/OM moves to tell the BS it becomes active involvement. That's my take on it and how I see it. I felt involvement and an impact. There was a two week period during his affair where he slept on the sofa and I got no sex. Found out later he felt guilty because she had requested he stop having sex with me. I was impacted each time I had dinner ready and he wasn't there because he was out driving her around to run her errands. I was impacted when I got some weird ass rash on my breasts because he had been kissing her and then later having sex with me. I don't even want to know what nasty things must have been in her mouth and got into my skin giving me an skin infection whose origin I couldn't figure out. I wish the bish had at least gone to the goddam dentist and gotten her gums scraped before she decided to have an affair with a married man. I really don't give a rats a$$ that he made the choice to kiss her and then have sex with me. She's always going to have some culpability in my eyes. 4
Summer Breeze Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 I felt involvement and an impact. There was a two week period during his affair where he slept on the sofa and I got no sex. Found out later he felt guilty because she had requested he stop having sex with me. I was impacted each time I had dinner ready and he wasn't there because he was out driving her around to run her errands. I was impacted when I got some weird ass rash on my breasts because he had been kissing her and then later having sex with me. I don't even want to know what nasty things must have been in her mouth and got into my skin giving me an skin infection whose origin I couldn't figure out. I wish the bish had at least gone to the goddam dentist and gotten her gums scraped before she decided to have an affair with a married man. I really don't give a rats a$$ that he made the choice to kiss her and then have sex with me. She's always going to have some culpability in my eyes. And that's your choice. If he hadn't had an A there would have been neither involvement nor impact.
eleanorrigby Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 And that's your choice. If he hadn't had an A there would have been neither involvement nor impact. Right, either one of them could have gone the high road and I'd not have had to go through that crap. 1
Decorative Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 Right, either one of them could have gone the high road and I'd not have had to go through that crap. Exactly. But you know, it didn't really impact you at all, right? It all existed in a vacuum, a perfect bubble far away from you. whoops. Choked on my own sarcasm there. LOL 3
Furious Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 XHs OW wasn't involved with my M. She was involved with my H and his choice of that happening changed his life with me. She heard what he chose to tell her and every lie to me was from his lips. She had no involvement with my M but she had every involvement with my xH. His actions to me were completely down to his choices no matter who they involved. As an OW I can say I didn't have any interest in their M and we never talked about it. I told him what I expected out of our R and he agreed. I set the bar high enough I think I figured he wouldn't proceed but he did. I chose to be involved with him but the choice to have an A was squarely on him. As with my xH he could have walked away a million times. I wonder if the problem in this issue is that some are looking at involvement and impact as the same thing. I look at involvement as hands on and direct involvement with a situation in every aspect. I agree the OW/OM, as being part of the A, have impact on the M. If an OW/OM moves to tell the BS it becomes active involvement. That's my take on it and how I see it. In other words, it was wrong to be cheated on by your husband but it's ok if you cheated with your MM. Seems convoluted reasoning and quite self centered. 1
Summer Breeze Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 Exactly. But you know, it didn't really impact you at all, right? It all existed in a vacuum, a perfect bubble far away from you. whoops. Choked on my own sarcasm there. LOL If you'd care to read my post I said it did impact but impact and involvement are two different things, not that an A exists in a bubble. A glass of water might help with the sarcasm going down a little better.
Summer Breeze Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 In other words, it was wrong to be cheated on by your husband but it's ok if you cheated with your MM. Seems convoluted reasoning and quite self centered. Not at all. As I've stated on threads here it was wrong for my H to have an A and it was wrong of DMM to have an A. I happen to be one of the people who put the blame on the WS fully. If they said no then there would be no A. There would be no involvement and there would be no impact. It's not convoluted at all. And it's far from self centered. It is reality -- if a WS did not have an A there would be no A. The common denominator in all As is the WS. There could be a thousand different APs but just 1 WS. Self centered not at all. It's centered around the WS because the choice is theirs every second the A is going on.
Furious Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 Not at all. As I've stated on threads here it was wrong for my H to have an A and it was wrong of DMM to have an A. I happen to be one of the people who put the blame on the WS fully. If they said no then there would be no A. There would be no involvement and there would be no impact. It's not convoluted at all. And it's far from self centered. It is reality -- if a WS did not have an A there would be no A. The common denominator in all As is the WS. There could be a thousand different APs but just 1 WS. Self centered not at all. It's centered around the WS because the choice is theirs every second the A is going on. No one is arguing the WS's ownership of their actions, but to say that the OW's hands are clean is absurd. And yes, it is a convoluted reasoning and shows a self-centerdness to say that you would not tolerate a cheating husband and then involve yourself with a cheating MM. 4
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