oldschool1 Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 Hi! It has been awhile since I've been on here. Things are going wonderfully, and I have met an awesome older man a bit over a month ago. He is basically retired and 50 (but busy taking classes, playing sports and staying active with his kids), and I am divorced and 36 (no kids). He has two children, aged 17 and 19 (one of whom is temporarily living with him), and he only recently moved out and began the divorce process. He and his ex-wife get along excellently, and he apparently remained in a passionless marriage the last bunch of years for the kids' sake. If he and his ex didn't get along so famously, I would never consider a man who is so newly single. My new boyfriend and I get along incredibly. Before we even met in person, we were communicating extensively via email and phone. Now that we're together, we talk on the phone every day and see each other quite a bit. He wanted to become exclusive immediately, and we started having (great!!) sex a few weeks in. Moreover, he was straightforward about his desire for a serious relationship. Basically, everything is superb with this guy, and he treats me amazingly (highly interested in everything I have to say, very affectionate, always planning cool dates, etc...). Quite frankly, there is nothing wrong here. Of course I have not met his kids yet, as he mentioned on our first date that he wouldn't have me meet them until he knew our relationship was headed in a certain direction. I was happy to hear him say this; being too cavalier about dates when someone is not even divorced yet would be a massive mistake. Not only would that be damaging to his kids, but it could potentially erode his ex-wife's extensive goodwill. Since he's an emotionally evolved man, I know that he would never mess around with me if he had no intention of getting serious. Of course, I have been to his home (but not when his 19 year-old son has been there). What would you all deem appropriate in terms of meeting his kids? I certainly don't feel ready yet, and I would think that his divorce should be finalized before doing that anyway. My instinct is to let him dictate this. Besides, he is fantastic at broaching important subjects with me, so I doubt he would avoid such a crucial topic. But right now, it's all about the two of us... Any advice would be most welcome!
Balzac Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 His kids, his decision. He may handle this in any manner he deems appropriate. Sounds like a nice romance. Congrats.
FitChick Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 I didn't meet my ex's kids until nine months later, when we decided we were going to get married. It's really not your decision. Count yourself lucky that they are older and have their own lives so they won't interfere.
SJC2008 Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 A good rule of thumb for meeting parents is 3monts so I guess you can apply that to kids too??
Author oldschool1 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Posted November 9, 2012 Thank you for the advice! I agree that meeting the kids would be 100% my boyfriend's decision. Three or four months at least, but perhaps the trajectory of the relationship will make this clear. What I find confusing is that he can't and shouldn't introduce to me many people in his life. Usually I will follow a man's lead on this, but I probably can't in this situation. So, I am not sure whether to invite him to meet friends/family. Should I be slow about this too, or does it not matter that it isn't reciprocated? I don't want to exclude him from things OR pressure him to participate too early on. Thank you!!
Author oldschool1 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Posted November 12, 2012 An update: I was feeling a bit bothered about the fact that my boyfriend kept leaving in the early morning (he wants to be home when his collegiate son wakes up). So, I let him know that I felt a little weird about that. We had a really positive conversation about this and about priorities, etc... He explained that he REALLY wants to stay over but does not feel right about being absent. Besides, his son is moving out soon, and there will be plenty of time for proper overnights then. I explained that I felt nervous about complaining, as I would never want to get into the dialectic of competing with his kids for attention. Basically, I am encouraging him to see his kids every chance he gets, and we're seeing quite a lot of each other anyway. It all feels healthy, and I am thrilled that we can talk to each other so openly. After that lengthy conversation, I felt closer to him. He met some of my friends last night (I cooked dinner), and that was really great. 1
CarrieT Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 My BF and started dating a year ago, October. I met his kids very briefly at a Christmas party (so about three months in), but didn't start interacting with them until we were six/seven months along. I have now moved closer to them and see them most weeknights but still do not sleep in their father's bed when they are home (they are pre-teens). There is a plan (unbeknownst to the kids) that we are all going to love together early next year, so I can only assume a proposal is coming. I don't think my BF want to depict "shacking" up without making things "proper."
Tara247 Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 Three or four months in sounds reasonable to me as far as meeting the kids.
Author oldschool1 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Posted November 12, 2012 Congratulations, Carrie! It sounds like you all are being very responsible, which bodes well. What were the interactions like with his kids? My new boyfriend has much older kids, so it is unlikely that I would ever live with them anyway. I teach university students, and I wouldn't be too concerned about relating to people of that age. However, my bf's divorce is not final yet, so he can't be introducing girlfriends to them. We haven't really talked about meeting his kids except that he's said things like, "You would really like my son". He gets along wonderfully with his ex (crucial for a guy who hopes to spend time with his kids), and I wouldn't want anything to jeopardize that. This guy has been moving fast relationship-wise, so I doubt he would put me in an extended holding pattern. I just wanted to canvass the website to see what wisdom you all had pertaining to dating men with teenagers.
FitChick Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 I would worry less about his kids than being his first relationship after a divorce. There is a term for that: The Transformational Woman, someone who is a stepping stone away from the ex but it seldom leads to marriage. It's a way to go from being married to officially single. I've been in that position and it's not fun. Fine if you aren't looking to get married though. 2
Author oldschool1 Posted November 13, 2012 Author Posted November 13, 2012 Thank you for your comment, Fitchick. I agree that the recent divorce IS a bigger deal. Of course we have broached this issue, and I am certainly apprehensive about this. And, he knows the habits of recently divorced men but doesn't want to sow his wild oats. Of course I am worried that he THINKS he is ready but ISN'T, but I can't second guess this stuff too much. If he didn't get along with his ex, I would never consider such a recently single man... Do you have any ways to gauge this, Fitchick? I don't get the sense that I am transformational, in part because I am not a "safe" choice (I'm a bit challenging..).
Author oldschool1 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Posted January 27, 2013 An update: Things have progressed really well. This guy is phenomenal, and he declared his love for me pretty early on (I feel the same way). We went on a week-long trip over the holidays and had an incredible time together. Basically, being together is about as good as it gets. He is caring, sexy, mature, sweet, generous, intellectual...you name it. We are really good together, and people around us agree. Now that we've been together almost four months, I am finding it increasingly difficult to deal with the fact that he's not yet divorced. I don't think there's a reasonable chance that he'll get back together with his ex, but I worry that the pace of integration will be too slow. Last week I brought up the issue of his divorce and made it clear that it IS important to me that he get divorced. He is clearly planning to get divorced, but he's been too freaked out about his relationship with his daughter to rock the boat more than necessary. I told him that I completely understand but that eventually our situation won't be ok anymore. I think that in a few months he will need a game plan, and moving ahead with the divorce is key. Until he is divorced or filing for divorce, we really can't think about getting more serious. Of course I told him that it's all up to him and that I wouldn't want to pressure him into doing something before he's ready. But I wanted him to understand that if it isn't satisfactory to me, I will eventually move on (we're not even close to that place though, and I still think it's too early to be moving on certain events here). So it's important for him to know my feelings about this now rather than later. It was good to talk about it, as I do not want to build up resentment. Sometimes it bothers me that he claims to love me so much but can't entirely move ahead full steam with the relationship. While he's met some people in my life, I have met no one in his. Though I agree with his decisions, it doesn't always feel great. I don't doubt his love, but it's all a bit confusing. Any advice on how to deal with this would be wonderfully helpful.
veggirl Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Errmmm are you sure you aren't the Other Woman? You've met NO ONE in his life in 4 months and he hasn't even filed for divorce? If he and his wife are separated and living separated/dating others/behaving as divorced then why would the paperwork upset his daughter? 3
FitChick Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Google him and his marriage, tax, property records. Something sounds a bit off. Even if he does get divorced, if you talked about marriage in the following months, he'd probably say, "But I just got divorced!" I had a divorced friend who was separated for years from her husband, had no plans to go back with him, so I asked how come she never filed. She said it was her protection against getting involved with another man again right away since technically she wasn't available and it gave her a good excuse. Edited January 28, 2013 by FitChick 1
Author oldschool1 Posted January 28, 2013 Author Posted January 28, 2013 Thanks for the comments. He is not still with his wife---he does not live with her, and I have been to his home many times. I don't think it's fishy, but he is clearly not in a position to move forward in certain respects just yet. So, I am not the other woman in that sense. However, I do worry that this is just poor timing. How is he supposed to move forward or break things to his family if he's still not divorced? Just knowing that he is very in love with me doesn't fix this situation. His son is still living with him a bit longer, which also complicates things. When I was separated myself, I began a serious relationship without divorce papers. Five or six months into the relationship, my divorce came through. It wasn't that big a deal, but I was extremely nervous about introducing the new boyfriend to anyone in my life. And, I didn't even have kids or any settlement concerns. I suppose I am somewhat understanding of these things, but I also don't want to be overly patient or a fool... Such a tricky balance...
in_absentia Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 I'd set yourself a date in the future (a secret one you don't talk to him about), say six months or a year, and if he hasn't divorced and isn't ready to move forward with your relationship by then I'd call it off. I've never been divorced (or married) but I know that I was broken up with outta the blue by a guy I lived with about four months ago, and I'm nowhere NEAR ready for anything serious with anybody else. I think it's easy when you're in the right place yourself to imagine that he is too, but I don't think we can underestimate how long it takes to feel fully over somebody or a relationship, enough to be ready to start something new, especially with children involved. Sounds like it could just be really awful timing for the two of you and in another circumstance it might have worked out, but it doesn't look great, does it? I hope things work out for you.
FitChick Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 You can meet the right man at the wrong time. It happened to me.
Author oldschool1 Posted January 28, 2013 Author Posted January 28, 2013 Thank you for your comment, In Absentia. I definitely understand what you're saying about the time limit. We have been together just under four months (an intense four months), and I had originally told myself that six months would be all the time I would be willing to spend without progress. We see each other quite a lot, and he is excellent about holidays, keeping contact, being intimate, sharing things, etc... So, I think that by six months it will be clear whether this is going to be a longterm thing. He acts like it is, but he also refrains from talking about things like living together, getting married, having kids (since he's older and I am not sure about having kids anyway). These aren't taboo subjects, but we haven't discussed doing such things TOGETHER. I recognize that it just hasn't been that long, but he did start the I love yous around the 2nd month mark, and he has been the one pushing on that end. Usually I am slow about developing feelings, but they happened fast for both of us. My boyfriend feels that he's quite ready for a serious relationship, and he has been consistent about this. There was never a time when he backed off. Basically, he was together with his wife for 25 years, and he insists that he doesn't want to do the divorced man thing (run around and sow his wild oats). So, I have taken him at face value and continue to believe him. He says that he would never date me at all if he didn't think we had a good shot at being together forever. He says that his wiring doesn't allow him to date anyone if he doesn't feel extremely strongly about a future. Then again, he hasn't dated in a gazillion years... My feeling is that by six months, something has got to give. There needs to be a strong sense that this is moving forward. Beginning his divorce proceedings is crucial, as is declaring his intention to move things forward with US (like wanting to live together). The divorce doesn't have to do with me and was already in the works when he met me. So that in and of itself is not entirely a "sign". He knows that in a few months our existing situation will not be adequate for me anymore, and he knows I am not interested in hanging out for years without any real commitment. We had a serious discussion about this a week ago, and he is aware of my no-nonsense approach to relationships. He said that when he first started having these strong feelings for me, he wasn't sure about trusting them. He said that at this point, he doesn't doubt them at all and is now increasingly confident that I am the "one" for him forever. I don't know what this means, but it sounds positive. I haven't said anything about wanting marriage or to live together to his face, but perhaps this is implicit. I'm realizing that my only comments about this stuff are negative and relate to my fears of getting shanked. I wonder if I should be more positive about this stuff rather than operating out of fear all the time. It's hard when you're in a high-risk situation like this, because you don't want to be the dumb woman who falls for some lines. Operating out of fear is a self-fulfilling prophecy, so I don't want to ruin a great thing by being doubtful and negative all the time. Sometimes it's hard not to be negative, because the ball seems to be in his court...
FitChick Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Find out what the options are in your state for divorce. Sometimes it can take years, sometimes months. Where is he along that timeline? Also be aware that what he says now, as a separated man, might change when he is 'officially' divorced. He might grow to relish his freedom, having his own place, fixing it up the way he likes, not answering to anyone else like he had to for twenty-five years. You're the first woman he's dated so he got lucky. He doesn't know how horrible it is out there for middle-aged singles. After six months, you could force his hand by suggesting you should both date other people, but be very nice about it. He may come back to you in a few months begging for you to reconcile.
Author oldschool1 Posted January 31, 2013 Author Posted January 31, 2013 Fit Chick, you make some good points. All of these worst case scenarios could indeed happen. In my state, there is a six month waiting period (with or without kids). He is not too far into the process, but he feels that it will be simple due to the amicable nature of the divorce. There are no custody issues, the wife can keep her house and most of the terms have already been discussed. Hopefully, it won't take a gazillion years to be finalized...but you never know what is going to go down. Our relationship continues to flourish. We are going away on a romantic weekend, so that will be quality time. It can be confusing/difficult to date someone with children though---he can't just hang out every single night, as his presence is needed. I am starting to wish I could be introduced to his son, as this would simplify things considerably. Still, I have to remind myself that we're still less than 4 months into this thing. Fortunately, he is well aware of my goals, and we are excellent at communicating feelings/concerns with each other. By the way, I don't think it's so bad out there for middle aged singles---at least for men. I live in a major metropolis, and there's certainly no shortage of young, attractive women around here. Heck, I am 14 years younger than my handsome silver-haired bf (not that I'm much of a bimbo!). In general, I don't like breaking up with someone to get back together again. Once I have severed that bond, I go through the grieving process and find myself unable to love that person again. Besides, I'm not nearly at the point of threatening to leave. We've dated under four months, and my bf thinks that our main issue is that we simply haven't been together long enough to make a more serious commitment. From what he says, however, a future commitment is a strong possibility. It's just hard to know what to do in the meantime. 1
FitChick Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 From what he says, however, a future commitment is a strong possibility. It's just hard to know what to do in the meantime. Get to know each other better?
FitChick Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 He has two children, aged 17 and 19 (one of whom is temporarily living with him) I just spotted this. His kids aren't small. They have their own lives. Unless they are handicapped or emotionally disturbed, they are fairly independent. Sounds like a convenient excuse. You sound like you are jumping the gun if he has just started divorce proceedings. It's not like this has been going on for two years.
Author oldschool1 Posted February 1, 2013 Author Posted February 1, 2013 Thanks again for the comments, fitchick. Actually, one of his kids (the older one) has had some health/legal troubles, so it's quite a bit of work. This son lives with my bf and needs to be driven around. It looks like he might be moving out in less two months to go to another university, so my bf is excited about the prospect of coming and going as he pleases. My bf feels this will be helpful for furthering our relationship, but it's not my business (especially because I don't know his kids). I just try to stay positive when I comment. I don't really think my bf is making excuses or anything---he sees me fairly often (like the weeklong trip a few weeks ago and our upcoming weekend away that starts tomorrow!), makes an effort to do things right and clearly respects me. We can't see each other everyday, but it's awfully early in the relationship for that anyway. I commented to him yesterday that I was frustrated about some obstacles that have come up lately (both of us being sick, stuff with his kids, my houseguest, etc...), and he said that he really wants to have a 7 days a week relationship with me. He said that pretty much every one of our obstacles will go away eventually (his still being married, his living with his son, etc..) and cited the newness of our relationship as the biggest obstacle. Basically, he thought that was the main reason why we can't make a more "aggressive commitment" to each other just yet. I am not sure he understands that the main stress of being with him STEMS from his marital/family situation---not the fledgling status of our relationship. Of course it's way too early to be making crazy commitments, but I am not sure what kind of commitment he is in the position to make right now anyway. Living together? Introducing me to his kids? I don't think it's a good idea for me to meet his kids until we've been together a bit longer anyway. It could be damaging for them to meet me if they're still not comfortable with their dad's separation from their mom...
RachR Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 It could be damaging for them to meet me if they're still not comfortable with their dad's separation from their mom... I'm sorry, but one is almost a legal adult at this point and one already is. It would not be "damaging" to them to meet you if they know their parents aren't together anymore. You should have met SOMEONE in his life at this point, this is a major red flag in my opinion, regardless of how wonderful he is.
Author oldschool1 Posted February 1, 2013 Author Posted February 1, 2013 You're right, MJ. I am contradicting myself. It's hard not to when you're in love. Actually, if you read what I wrote, I have not wanted to meet anyone in my BF's family just yet. There was a work gathering for him that he wanted me to come to, but I declined since I didn't want it getting back to his family. I also think my bf has moved awfully fast with a serious relationship when he wasn't really in a position to follow through. He said he hadn't expected to fall in love so soon but that love was absolutely the thing he wanted and had been missing all these years. I have certainly expressed my concern over his falling so fast---did he just WANT to fall in love? And was I the first attractive person he met? I don't think that's the case, but I did tell him this concern. At least he's not a lousy parent who brings tons of women through the house... I am new to dating fathers, but I thought that even fully divorced men like to wait 6 months or longer to introduce their girlfriends to their children. My bf told me on day 1 that he would not introduce me to his children until it was clear that it was a longterm/permanent situation, and I respect that decision. Less than four months does not qualify as a very long time, and it would be a mistake to meet his daughter too early on. She is already having trouble dealing with her parents' breakup. My contradiction stems from the fear of being made a fool---being told that he loves me (which he does quite a bit) and then being dissed later on. Or even worse--being together a really long time without any commitment to be dissed later. I am 36 and do not want to be single when I am older. Right now I can attract great men, but that might very well change in a few years. However, I am not an impulsive person, and I don't think it's a good idea to move in or get married crazy early. My bf made the wrong decision 25 years ago (married someone he wasn't really that in love with), and he is afraid of making this mistake again. So, he isn't immediately proposing to me (not that he can anyway!!). I also married someone I didn't love, so I understand reticence. Of course, we have only known each other a short while, so I don't think that there are red flags just yet. In my last relationship, we were together for 2 1/2 years with no I love you. Now THAT's a red flag, and I did break up with him over it. That experience taught me to speak up early and loudly. But in this relationship, I think there IS love, and I am simply trying to speak up to protect myself. Fortunately, my bf is an excellent communicator, and he understands my frustration and feels it himself. Thank you for letting me think out loud (well, on the keyboard anyway...). It is helpful to vent!
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