I'm 21, he's 43

[kaylan]

Hell, some of you guys who run in here trying to fend for older men, are some of the same guys who roll into threads about older women dating younger men, and constantly shame those women.

 

Its always the same argument for you lot, about how older guys are mature, have status and money, and are cultured gents. Yet I see you same dudes shame older women as "taking what they can get", or that younger guys are desperate for any woman, or any other line meant to put older women down. It couldnt be that shes sexy, fit, and mature enough to have her pick in men

 

So I never take a thing many of you say seriously.

This is false. Men of all ages love a young sexy woman. This has nothing to do with emotional maturity.

Whats funny is I remember you talking about an older womans maturity if she happened to consistently date younger men. Sorry, but Ive seen the double standard youve held when the older-younger dating situation comes up.

[dasein]

Now I see why you sound so triggered...you are one of those older men who likes younger women and it hurts you to read, that you were taking advantage of someone whose brain is not finished growing/developing/maturing.

 

All I see is half-baked unscience, no conclusive studies at all. For example, is it at all possible that teens have more wrecks... because they just learned how to drive? because they drive more at night when most wrecks happen? because it's hormone related as opposed to cognitive? because they tend to drive with more people in the car? because they eat more in the car? because they spend half the time in some kind of crush or distracted? because they are still growing in all areas and they are constantly having to recoordinate?

 

No, it must be because their brains aren't fully functional yet.

 

But mainly look at the subtle slant in the links. They slide in a highly conclusory statement that the brain doesn't mature until 25, then working backwards from that, go out and do all the research on... postpubescent teens, not 21-25 y.o. If they really want to prove this, they will go with 20+ because teens are subject to a whole HOST of factors that could skew the research other than their presumably stunted brains. But they don't really care about proving anything, just getting invited to Dr. Phil.

 

BTW, skip the personal assessments. I prefer dating women closer to my own age, but since I'm not hung up on age, have dated quite a few women significantly older and younger in my life. Nice try on the shaming front, fail.

[dasein]

Hell, some of you guys who run in here trying to fend for older men, are some of the same guys who roll into threads about older women dating younger men, and constantly shame those women.

 

That's a plain lie, or rather prove it. There is not even a toenail's amount of shaming older women for dating younger men in comparison to the frothing spitting that gets slung out in these older man/young woman threads, and you know it.

[mesmerized]

Nor will your inapt links erase the fact that they don't say what you think they do. Thanks for wasting my time reading them. The last link you posted says the brain is 95% formed by middle childhood, and cites other growth that falls off precipitously immediately post puberty. Nothing at all in there about 21-25 year old brains being not adult.

 

You just read the title, didn't you?

 

Look, its honestly way too simple for someone like you who claims to read 200+ books a year not to get it. I agree, brain growth argument is weak. But there is a much better argument out there and that is lack of experience. A 21 year old is barely out of home and yes she can drive and get a job, but does it really mean she can make great decisions? No, absolutely not. Due to her lack of experience and maturity she is also much more likely to be taken advantage of. She doesn't know better. Nobody here is trying to ban young women from going for older men but just warn these women of who these men Might actually be. The same reason we advise them on education, jobs etc. If you truly think of the average 21 year old to have the same maturity and decision making abilities as yours, then I have to say I'm sorry for you. I would say the same to the 21 year old male who wanted a relationship with a 43 year old woman. No bias here really.

 

Ps: Im so proud of you not having used the word feminism much since you came back. Keep up the good work.

[dasein]

I agree, brain growth argument is weak. But there is a much better argument out there and that is lack of experience. A 21 year old is barely out of home and yes she can drive and get a job, but does it really mean she can make great decisions? No, absolutely not. Due to her lack of experience and maturity she is also much more likely to be taken advantage of. She doesn't know better. Nobody here is trying to ban young women from going for older men but just warn these women of who these men Might actually be. The same reason we advise them on education, jobs etc. If you truly think of the average 21 year old to have the same maturity and decision making abilities as yours, then I have to say I'm sorry for you. I would say the same to the 21 year old male who wanted a relationship with a 43 year old woman. No bias here really.

 

Ps: Im so proud of you not having used the word feminism much since you came back. Keep up the good work.

 

1. Feminism - You weren't around when this forum was essentially the feminist's corner with women spouting all that claptrap here in dating threads about women making less, patriarchy, oppression, constant misogyny calling, men having all the advantages, etc. News for you, I never started those nightmare threads down that path, but did end a whole bunch of them, and if I'm responsible even a little for getting that out of here? good. It's a -great- policy that such is no longer allowed on the dating forum.

 

2. Maturity - Is a 21 y.o. person generally as mature as a 43 y.o. person? No. Do they need to be reminded of this fact over and over and over and over and over and over here when seeking simple advice on a specific situation? No. Do your above assessments apply to all young adults in all ways? Yes. Does that mean they are prone to being taken advantage of? Not necessarily, depends on the person.

 

3. OP isn't even dating this guy yet, just having some sexy time. Way premature to tell her what she already knows, that he will be an old dad if he ever is one. If she wasn't sleeping with him, it would probably be with someone. This guy is nice to her and she likes him. It won't be her last relationship. She knows all the negatives already, it's the whole reason she posted. She came here because she is getting bombarded with the stranger danger talk IRL, and it just gets repeated here. As far as advice goes, I stand by what I posted in my first post to the thread.

 

4. There is a very real unwarranted bias that always comes out to play anytime an older man is dating a younger woman. It's one of the worst biases on this board, and is in fact a product of the voguey pop psych/abuse culture trend of painting young women as victims and men as predators, always predators.

[mesmerized]

1. Feminism - You weren't around when this forum was essentially the feminist's corner with women spouting all that claptrap here in dating threads about women making less, patriarchy, oppression, constant misogyny calling, men having all the advantages, etc. News for you, I never started those nightmare threads down that path, but did end a whole bunch of them, and if I'm responsible even a little for getting that out of here? good. It's a -great- policy that such is no longer allowed on the dating forum.

 

2. Maturity - Is a 21 y.o. person generally as mature as a 43 y.o. person? No. Do they need to be reminded of this fact over and over and over and over and over and over here when seeking simple advice on a specific situation? No. Do your above assessments apply to all young adults in all ways? Yes. Does that mean they are prone to being taken advantage of? Not necessarily, depends on the person.

 

3. OP isn't even dating this guy yet, just having some sexy time. Way premature to tell her what she already knows, that he will be an old dad if he ever is one. If she wasn't sleeping with him, it would probably be with someone. This guy is nice to her and she likes him. It won't be her last relationship. She knows all the negatives already, it's the whole reason she posted. She came here because she is getting bombarded with the stranger danger talk IRL, and it just gets repeated here. As far as advice goes, I stand by what I posted in my first post to the thread.

 

4. There is a very real unwarranted bias that always comes out to play anytime an older man is dating a younger woman. It's one of the worst biases on this board, and is in fact a product of the voguey pop psych/abuse culture trend of painting young women as victims and men as predators, always predators.

 

I was around when almost every post of yours had some rant about feminism and frankly, it was often not even related or necessary.

 

Does a 21 year old woman need to be reminded? Absolutely, thats why she posted here, to get opinions and she is getting it. Is she "more" prone to be taken advantage of due to her age? Again absolutely. There are some older women who are prone to it to but that is usually because they lack intelligence even though they have experience, there is not much hope for them. A younger person doesn't have experience on her side so is more prone to it than lets say her older self.

 

As for saying why do we assume these men are predators....hello, have you ever read this forum? Most if not all "i want a young woman" men who post here say truly predatory things. They admit they're just after tits and ass and often make very rude and dragatory comments about older women. These men are the ones young women should stay far far away from. But obviously these men are smart enough to not let these women know their real thoughts and intentions. And the women they go for are naive enough to believe them. I actually think the op's case is similar. This guy seems to be impulsive (hooking up with a much younger coworker after drinking without thinking of consequences) and has a history of going for much younger women. He doesn't exactly sound like a gem and even though I don't have enough information to judge this man properly, I can and should tell op to be careful.

[Nyla]

Women are often portrayed as financial predators of men. I have seen this both in real life and certainly on this board.

 

Sorry, I'm slow....what does "voguey" mean? I tried to Google the word but nothing came up.

 

I don't like Dr.Phil either, but you cannot deny that the man does have reputable credentials, despite not renewing his licence to practice.

[dasein]

Voguey is a made-up word meaning "trendy." I should have posted vogueish.

 

Anyway, have had my say and OP has apparently gone or been chased off, so anything else on this topic will be just back and forth.

 

mesmerized, unless you were another ID in the past, you weren't around then, and will find not one thread ever created by me on feminism here or any other forum on the net, a very small % of 4000+ posts of mine on feminism, and even fewer, a miniscule amount even, where I was the one who brought the topic into a thread where shaming, personal attacks, feminist dogma etc. weren't already going on. They stick out in your mind and others' minds more because they are generally in hot threads and I am very persuasive where that particular topic is concerned.

[cmr88]

Because he's smart. What's he been doing with his life? I don't know the guy but I can assume that he's been gaining life experiences while his friends get married and live in a rut or get divorced and live bitterly. Meanwhile, he's 43, single and banging a 21 year old. I'd call that winning.

 

Hahaha this comment made me laugh so much. Honestly, it was the best thing I've read so far in reviewing these replies, just because you made me change my traditional perspective.

 

I didn't say anything about him frequenting bars. Regardless, he still scored didn't he? Provided the 21 year old is hot.

 

Yeah, he doesn't "frequent" bars, he works in a bar (as do I).

 

And lolz, I would say I'm pretty good-looking. Not super hot by conventional model standards, but I would think that getting me was definitely a score for him.

[cmr88]

Hello!

 

I can understand what you are going through, my previous relationship was with a man who is thirty years older than me. When we got together I was 21 and he was 49, older than my dad. Honestly, we had a really good relationship that lasted for 3 years, I have lots of good memories from it and learnt a lot. He treated me well and took me all around the world. But let me say, you can never get past that age difference. You can never have the same friendship group and eventually become very aware of what people are thinking when they see you together.

 

In my opinion, it can never last in a relationship with such a big age gap.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Thank you for this response! I am happy to hear from someone with experience. That's kind of how I feel. I feel like it could be nice for a while but never work out in the long run.

[cmr88]

All fears of social judgement, warnings about "power dynamics" and **** like that aside, do you really want to date a 43 year old ?? At 21 ??

 

You will be turning 28 as he turns 50... And will have spent your young years with someone middle-aged. And not saying this to be a douche, but just to highlight the simple reality. I'm 24, have been hooking up with a 35 year old, and though she's a cool, fit, sexually crazy woman, it doesn't feel like anything I'd want to make a relationship out of.

 

I personally think having a partner relatively close to your own age is cool for the kind of comradery it provides. Like both being still within your "youth", settling into adulthood, leaning on eachother during the problems youre both experiencing together. I want a peer in a girlfriend, not a mentor. I think you actually learn more, and in a more natural way, from someone on your same level.

 

And it's not about "maturity" vs. age. At 21, and now at 24, I know I'm more perceptive, grounded & intelligent than tons of women twice or three times my age. If anything, your feeling that maturity is relatively independent of age should let you see that there are other people closer to your age at the same mental/emotional level. If youre 21 and on the same page as this 43 year old, there are other 21 year olds that are too. It's not about "maturity". **** I have friends in my life from ages 35-85 with whom I have awesome mutual understanding, respect and love. Life situations and priorities are important variables, not just intelligence or brain formation.

 

All that being said, if you're attracted to the guy and don't care what your friends think, go for it and have some sort of fling with him. I just wouldn't be his actual girlfriend if I were you...

 

I completely agree with you. I think that this is something that will be a nice fling but nothing long term.

[cmr88]

I was around when almost every post of yours had some rant about feminism and frankly, it was often not even related or necessary.

 

Does a 21 year old woman need to be reminded? Absolutely, thats why she posted here, to get opinions and she is getting it. Is she "more" prone to be taken advantage of due to her age? Again absolutely. There are some older women who are prone to it to but that is usually because they lack intelligence even though they have experience, there is not much hope for them. A younger person doesn't have experience on her side so is more prone to it than lets say her older self.

 

As for saying why do we assume these men are predators....hello, have you ever read this forum? Most if not all "i want a young woman" men who post here say truly predatory things. They admit they're just after tits and ass and often make very rude and dragatory comments about older women. These men are the ones young women should stay far far away from. But obviously these men are smart enough to not let these women know their real thoughts and intentions. And the women they go for are naive enough to believe them. I actually think the op's case is similar. This guy seems to be impulsive (hooking up with a much younger coworker after drinking without thinking of consequences) and has a history of going for much younger women. He doesn't exactly sound like a gem and even though I don't have enough information to judge this man properly, I can and should tell op to be careful.

 

 

Hey. Just so you know, he wasn't really predatory at all. I've been attracted to him for quite some time and when we started kissing the first time he kept asking me if I was sure if it was a good idea. I totally initiated it as much as he did. I'm an adult (despite what some people in this thread are saying) and I like to be sexual.

 

Have men taken advantage of me before? Yeah, totally. Is he one of them? No, not at all.

 

Also, did I mention the younger woman he dated before, he dated for 5 years? Dating someone for 5 years isn't predatory, it's a long-term relationship.

[cmr88]

2. Maturity - Is a 21 y.o. person generally as mature as a 43 y.o. person? No. Do they need to be reminded of this fact over and over and over and over and over and over here when seeking simple advice on a specific situation? No. Do your above assessments apply to all young adults in all ways? Yes. Does that mean they are prone to being taken advantage of? Not necessarily, depends on the person.

 

3. OP isn't even dating this guy yet, just having some sexy time. Way premature to tell her what she already knows, that he will be an old dad if he ever is one. If she wasn't sleeping with him, it would probably be with someone. This guy is nice to her and she likes him. It won't be her last relationship. She knows all the negatives already, it's the whole reason she posted. She came here because she is getting bombarded with the stranger danger talk IRL, and it just gets repeated here. As far as advice goes, I stand by what I posted in my first post to the thread.

 

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[GirlontheLam]

That's a plain lie, or rather prove it. There is not even a toenail's amount of shaming older women for dating younger men in comparison to the frothing spitting that gets slung out in these older man/young woman threads, and you know it.

 

Um you realize that it is virtually expected that a man who is 40 has a dateable range of 25-40. Just watch TV. It is about time it is OK for women to date a little younger.

[dasein]

Um you realize that it is virtually expected that a man who is 40 has a dateable range of 25-40. Just watch TV. It is about time it is OK for women to date a little younger.

 

Not sure if tv is the best indicator, but the programming you are talking about is aimed at a mostly female audience, as is most dram/com tv programming. So if what you say is true, it's because the female tv audience likes it that way. Else the shows get cancelled. But agree generally, people should date who they want, and age is a ways down the compatibility list IMO. You will never see me posting negatively in a thread discussing older women dating younger men due to the age gap alone, never have, never will.

[GirlontheLam]

Not sure if tv is the best indicator, but the programming you are talking about is aimed at a mostly female audience, as is most dram/com tv programming. So if what you say is true, it's because the female tv audience likes it that way. Else the shows get cancelled. But agree generally, people should date who they want, and age is a ways down the compatibility list IMO. You will never see me posting negatively in a thread discussing older women dating younger men due to the age gap alone, never have, never will.

 

No the myth that 25 year olds date 40 year olds is perpetuated by men, in stuff aimed at men. Most movies etc. In fact look at the Bond movies..... he always has some sort of 25-28 year old. Kinda like the whole fat guy, skinny wife thing.

 

Every old guy thinks he is Hugh Hefner or George Clooney in the making.

 

What about the old adage, that men can safely date women who are half their age plus 7. Looks like a double standard to me.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

It's interesting, the times in my life when I've dated significantly older women, 10+ year gap, I've been presumed to be victimizing her, the young playboy taking advantage of a single mom. Then when dating a 23 yo. the next month, I'm presumed to be victimizing a child without a functional brain.

 

Funny how the predation and abuse always run to the male side of the scale, no matter which direction the age gap goes, isn't it? Actually it's not funny at all, and too predictable.

 

I skimmed this thread but I think this is the part that resonated with me the most because I more or less experienced the same thing.

 

Two years ago, 23 year old me expressed interested in dating a very attractive then-31-year old woman. Nothing really came of it, but people just assumed I was going to try to take advantage of her somehow because of the age difference, and because she was divorced as well. That latter fact probably did have something to do with things not going anywhere, as she was acutely aware of having a ticking biological clock and needed to remind people about it rather frequently.

 

A few months before that, I did some hooking up with an 18-year old. A few people in my social circle, mostly the ladies (big surprise), thought that was a bit "off" too, and that was a mere 5 age difference. I became uncomfortable with that situation mostly because of what other people said about it rather than how I genuinely felt about it.

 

I received negative comments because I entered into romantic scenarios with mere 5 and 8 year age gaps. In both situations, it was either implied or said outright that I was being a predator. It's just like you said. If I'm dating a girl in her late teens, I'm taking advantage of her vulnerability and immaturity. If I'm dating an older woman, I'm taking advantage of her vulnerability and her hormones. I can only imagine how ridiculous the social pressure becomes when you're dealing with 10, 15, or 20 year age gaps.

 

For what it's worth, I don't typically foresee much of a future for relationships that feature huge age gaps, and I really have little desire to engage in those in the future. But when it comes to casual sex or lighthearted dating, I really don't think age should be a limit. If the two people like each other's company and if they find each other physically attractive, I say knock yourself out. Disclaimer: ***Completely Hypothetical Sitaution*** If I was single and not looking for a serious relationship, why limit myself? One of my professors is 50 years old and smoking hot. So are the undergrads I see on campus every day. Big whoop.

[mesmerized]

No the myth that 25 year olds date 40 year olds is perpetuated by men, in stuff aimed at men. Most movies etc. In fact look at the Bond movies..... he always has some sort of 25-28 year old. Kinda like the whole fat guy, skinny wife thing.

 

Every old guy thinks he is Hugh Hefner or George Clooney in the making.

 

What about the old adage, that men can safely date women who are half their age plus 7. Looks like a double standard to me.

 

Women like magic mike or shows with hot men not old men. Are women the ones who enjoy bond movies or a ton of other where a fat or average nerd gets a victoria secret model hot girl? Sorry but no, those are mainly made to satisfy men and give men hope. No matter who you are, you can get a 10.

[Shaun-Dro]

Hell, some of you guys who run in here trying to fend for older men, are some of the same guys who roll into threads about older women dating younger men, and constantly shame those women.

 

Its always the same argument for you lot, about how older guys are mature, have status and money, and are cultured gents. Yet I see you same dudes shame older women as "taking what they can get", or that younger guys are desperate for any woman, or any other line meant to put older women down. It couldnt be that shes sexy, fit, and mature enough to have her pick in men

 

So I never take a thing many of you say seriously.

Whats funny is I remember you talking about an older womans maturity if she happened to consistently date younger men. Sorry, but Ive seen the double standard youve held when the older-younger dating situation comes up.

 

This is false also. Please show my posts where I've made an issue about a older woman dating a younger man. Frankly, I couldn't care less.

[brakco]

This is kind of freaky cause he sounds exactly like my ex who owns a bar and is 43. It doesn't happen to be a pub in So. California, does it?

[kaylan]

No the myth that 25 year olds date 40 year olds is perpetuated by men, in stuff aimed at men. Most movies etc. In fact look at the Bond movies..... he always has some sort of 25-28 year old. Kinda like the whole fat guy, skinny wife thing.

 

Every old guy thinks he is Hugh Hefner or George Clooney in the making.

 

What about the old adage, that men can safely date women who are half their age plus 7. Looks like a double standard to me.

Very true. Movies and tv want us to think Al Bundy, Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin, and the movie Hitch happen all the time in real life. That the chubby nice guy, who may be not that smart, lands a hot babe.

This is false also. Please show my posts where I've made an issue about a older woman dating a younger man. Frankly, I couldn't care less.

Of course you couldnt care less. The women here know how you chase teenage tail and sometimes join in when people decide to hate on older women. The rest of our memories arent that short. Or do I have you confused with someone else?

Women like magic mike or shows with hot men not old men. Are women the ones who enjoy bond movies or a ton of other where a fat or average nerd gets a victoria secret model hot girl? Sorry but no, those are mainly made to satisfy men and give men hope. No matter who you are, you can get a 10.

Magic Mike. Thats all that needs to be said about a movie aimed at what women find sexy and fun in a movie.

Edited November 9, 2012 by kaylan

[dasein]

No the myth that 25 year olds date 40 year olds is perpetuated by men, in stuff aimed at men. Most movies etc. In fact look at the Bond movies..... he always has some sort of 25-28 year old. Kinda like the whole fat guy, skinny wife thing.

 

Every old guy thinks he is Hugh Hefner or George Clooney in the making.

 

What about the old adage, that men can safely date women who are half their age plus 7. Looks like a double standard to me.

 

OK well, you posted the tv reference not me. If you want to talk movies now instead, which are also not very good indicators, fine. For every Bond movie, in which the ages of the women themselves is not ever made an issue other than one Roger Moore one, Spy Who Loved me IIRC, there are a dozen or 100 romcom movies, chickflix, aimed at a female audience that focus directly on age gap relationships as a topic in the movie, and quite a few movies where Stella gets her groove back by getting with a younger man.

 

Now other than Bond movies, there are rarely conventional movies that make an older male younger woman relationship an issue in the movie, that are targeted at a male audience. I can't even think of any. Moreover, very little modern porno has older dudes and young women, I can't think of any. So disagree that older man younger woman movies are popular in male entertainment. Those types of age gap relationships running both ways, though, are very common in movies aimed at a female audience. Women are the target of May December romance movies much more than men. So by your reasoning, it's actually women who like them more.

 

Now on to Clooney and Hefner, no, every man does not think he is studly like that. I'm an average height, average looking guy who is in decent shape, no body beautiful. I have no reason to brag here. But I do get approached and flirted with by young good looking women more than I ever did in my 20s when I looked much better. Have dated some, and have let some get away. I would have killed for the kind of attention I get now in my 20s, which is not like they are falling at my feet, just seem to be all over the place and interested. No they don't just go hop in bed with me, but they are mostly dtf and very easy to date, and I was going out and looking 5x as much then as now. The one advantage I have now over then is I am much more experienced and good at seducing women than then, and that's not a function of just looks, but several things. You do have to be generally healthy and in good shape, the apperance of a high energy level is key, good posture, good clothes. But telling men here that younger women don't like us and we all think we are better looking than we are and making it up is simply not the case.

 

On to the double standard, how is that a double standard? You can date whomever you like as well if you are a middle aged woman provided you take care of yourself and seek it out if that's what you want. No one will care or bash you for it. I've never seen any woman talking about dating younger here get bashed for the age gap, and think there's one poster, mm, who is happily married to a much younger guy. In fact I see women gloating about getting with young guys here every now and then and they get nothing but congrats.

[kaylan]

^And rom coms are written by men. And actually, in most rom coms the characters are around the same age. No 20 year differences like this thread. And usually no more than a 10 year difference if anything.

A few months before that, I did some hooking up with an 18-year old. A few people in my social circle, mostly the ladies (big surprise), thought that was a bit "off" too, and that was a mere 5 age difference. I became uncomfortable with that situation mostly because of what other people said about it rather than how I genuinely felt about it.

Id say the issue is 18 year olds are still barely kids out of the home. Thats prolly why people raised eyebrows. And they tend to have the maturity of high schoolers as well.

[GirlontheLam]

Women like magic mike or shows with hot men not old men. Are women the ones who enjoy bond movies or a ton of other where a fat or average nerd gets a victoria secret model hot girl? Sorry but no, those are mainly made to satisfy men and give men hope. No matter who you are, you can get a 10.

 

Exactly. It is sort of generally expected that men get hot young women no matter who they are, but a woman over 28 should be happy with whatever loser she can get. No way should she get a "hot young stud" she is past her "prime."

 

Double standard.

 

**which is why I don't have beef if people do not complain about women dating younger. It is about time really.

[TheBigQuestion]

^And rom coms are written by men. And actually, in most rom coms the characters are around the same age. No 20 year differences like this thread. And usually no more than a 10 year difference if anything.

Id say the issue is 18 year olds are still barely kids out of the home. Thats prolly why people raised eyebrows. And they tend to have the maturity of high schoolers as well.

 

I can understand why they thought that, but at 23, I wasn't exactly the creepy middle-aged guy going after someone apparently vastly dumber and more naive than myself.

 

People just tend to get really riled up when this topic comes up, whether here or in life. Why it bothers some people so much I will never understand. I grant that I don't really get relationships with large age gaps on a personal level, but it works for some people. And if I was single and looking for an FWB, I wouldn't let a silly thing like age be a determining factor.