veggirl Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I've never met a woman who sleeps with a guy to "get him to go away". I mean really. In what world would that make sense. Unless you like him and you suspect he is on the fence, then it might work
scratch Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 If she had told him she wasn't interested before conducting a close personal relationship for several months, traveling to him and sleeping with him, you might have a point. Because she did those things, though, he has a right to try to reconcile the MIXED SIGNALS she has sent him past a single rejection. If he persisted for months after that, maybe creepy. Did we read the OP differently? It sounds to me like he's persisting for weeks after the single rejection. I agree with you that "creepy" is an unfortunate term, but once the dumper flat-out says "I don't want to date anymore," they have discharged their responsibility to the dumpee. "Mixed signals" is never an acceptable excuse for ignoring the dumper unless, in the interim, the dumper takes the initiative to reconnect. That's a cruel thing to do, but not part of the facts here. 4
dasein Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 "Mixed signals" is never an acceptable excuse for ignoring the dumper unless, in the interim, the dumper takes the initiative to reconnect. No, we are reading the exact same thread. We just disagree on the above statement. And you are slanting as well, in terms of "ignoring the dumper" as willingly perpetuating a faux friendship, which OP has done, where there is an attraction imbalance, and having one party try to endlessly fix, win back or change the other's mind is the farthest thing from "ignoring the dumper," is also a very common thread topic here, and does not in any way imply a "creep factor" in the party trying to change the other's mind, male or female. It may be long odds for the party with the remaining crush, it may be a waste of time, but it is not in any way "creepy" or some significant violation of someone's space. There is some very disturbing, obnoxious gender slant going on in this thread tempered by more reasonable POVs. Neither men, nor women, have the prerogative to send out mixed signals, sleep with someone, change their minds, continue the "friendship," and then rely on a derogatory characterization of the other party to scrub their conscience clean. Simply move on and be done. As I've stated previously, OP should just move on definitively without engaging in a needless "creepster" blame game.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I don't see the problem. He likes you, you don't like him back. He keeps calling. Oh well. Ignore the call if it bothers you. I'm finding it hard to conjure up any kind of sympathy. Grow up... 1
serial muse Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I think it needs to be reiterated that the OP didn't try to pursue a friendship with him, post-sex. A lot of people seem to be making this error. But what she said was exactly this: When I got home, I told him that I was only interested in being friends and nothing more. That I don't feel romantic, am very sorry and it's just how I feel. He was very upset. And kept trying to talk me out of it. He finally accepted it and we got off the phone. I didn't hear from him for a week. I answered the phone when he called last night and he was friendly and seemed okay. But throughout the conversation he was talking to me as though we are going to be dating and are working it out. Clearly some kind of manipulative move. I didn't know what to say and kept dodging his suggestions to take a trip together in next month. He even mentioned something about what's my dad going to say about his age and "us." (I'm in my 30's.) Clearly he is not just pushy in bed but now pushy in general. I'm creeped out that this guy is doing this. He just tried to call again this evening and I really don't want to have to go through another call like I did where he was so upset and trying to change my mind. I was VERY clear and BLUNT about my decision and left no possibility that I could change my mind. So I'm feeling really disrespected and creeped out. To make matters worse, he's my cousin's friend and she gave him a big talk before meeting me to be a gentleman. I'm trying my hardest to be nice but I'm so uncomfortable I just want to block his number. They had sex like a week ago, she told him afterwards that she didn't want to pursue things, nobody called anybody for a week, then he called her and acted like she never called it off, and then he called again. She has not tried pursuing a friendship with him post-sex, people. It's been like a week, based on the OP. A week! The hell, how is she leading him on now or willingly perpetuating a faux friendship? Yes, at this point she should flat-out tell him not to call anymore. Would that work? I don't know, because I do think it's odd .... and borderline CREEEEEEEPY :eek::eek::eek: .... that he pretended she never told him it was over.
scratch Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 We just disagree on the above statement. You disagree? If you dump someone and never contact her again, she can keep after you because you showed interest in the weeks/months before you dumped her? Huh. Weird. And you are slanting as well, in terms of "ignoring the dumper" as willingly perpetuating a faux friendship, which OP has done, where there is an attraction imbalance, and having one party try to endlessly fix, win back or change the other's mind is the farthest thing from "ignoring the dumper," is also a very common thread topic here, and does not in any way imply a "creep factor" in the party trying to change the other's mind, male or female. It may be long odds for the party with the remaining crush, it may be a waste of time, but it is not in any way "creepy" or some significant violation of someone's space. I don't mean to slant. The timeline I see is: 1) dating, 2) bad sex, 3) dumping, 4) persistence, 5) ignoring/reinforcement of the dumping, 6) more persistence. Do you see it differently? If she did anything after the dumping except ignoring + reinforcing the dumping, I agree with you. In fact, I know it happens and is supremely cruel. But, I honestly don't read anything in this particular OP to indicate that. Neither men, nor women, have the prerogative to send out mixed signals, sleep with someone, change their minds, continue the "friendship," and then rely on a derogatory characterization of the other party to scrub their conscience clean. Simply move on and be done. As I've stated previously, OP should just move on definitively without engaging in a needless "creepster" blame game. We agree here, I think. The whole jerks/creeps/teases/sluts dynamic here is less than constructive, but I'll be goddamned if anybody would visit this site but for that dynamic.
serial muse Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 And I would 100% think it's borderline creepy if a woman called a guy after they slept together and he called it off, and she later called him and just pretended like he hadn't ended things. Just saying.
dasein Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 A couple of months ago my cousin set me up with a friend of hers and her husband's... We went out to dinner twice that weekend, I kissed him at the end of the second evening and it was a very light kiss. ?(let the spinnin begin) ... For two months!?! we texted everyday!?! and grew a great friendship. There was no flirting or anything. ... It is still a plane ride away however. We met in a mutual city to hang out for the weekend to further see if we liked each other. I couldn't decide if I felt a spark or not but was almost certain of feeling no spark?? I slept with him and this was my idea. (mkay) Not just horrible, but creepy... (bad sexy time) Even if there was a spark ??I think how he acted would have killed any mood I had for him. (fair enough) When I got home, I told him that I was only interested in being friends and nothing more (contact #1 after bad sexy time). That I don't feel romantic, am very sorry and it's just how I feel. He was very upset. And kept trying to talk me out of it. He finally accepted it and we got off the phone. I didn't hear from him for a week. I answered the phone when he called last night and he was friendly and seemed okay. (contact #2 after sexy time) But throughout the conversation he was talking to me as though we are going to be dating and are working it out. Clearly some kind of manipulative move (Slant more?) Clearly he is not just pushy in bed but now pushy in general. (after all of -two- contacts post sex ) I'm creeped out that this guy is doing this. (yeah getting two calls from a guy you had sex with is -really- creepy) I was VERY clear and BLUNT about my decision and left no possibility that I could change my mind. So I'm feeling really disrespected and creeped out. (more unreasonable slant). How do you deal with a weirdo ?!? like this? Without having to go through this conversation AGAIN? (yah that third contact from this guy would be insanely creeeeeeepy-freaky, truly traumatizing) Dasein, Are you saying that if I go out with / date someone for a short time (including sleeping with them once) and then tell them I'm not interested, that that is mixed signals??? What I'm saying, and tried to say it more diplomatically in early posts to this thread, is that OP (and you incidentally) are trying to spin a two month daily contact routine after dates that led to her traveling to meet him and have sex, her rejection, and his -abominable- act of calling her -twice- after the rejection to try and change her mind does not a creepy, manipulative, pushy, weirdo, horrible, disrespectful person make.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 And I would 100% think it's borderline creepy if a woman called a guy after they slept together and he called it off, and she later called him and just pretended like he hadn't ended things. Just saying. Yeah it's a little creepy but...who cares? Deal with it. Unless he starts casing her house or setting up surveillance on her I don't see why it's a big deal. Ignore it, it'll go away soon enough. The fact that she's not ignoring it speaks volumes to me...
verhrzn Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I've never met a woman who sleeps with a guy to "get him to go away". I mean really. In what world would that make sense. Unless you like him and you suspect he is on the fence, then it might work But how often have you been cornered by a guy who you were afraid might harm you? How often have you pushed someone's hand away and said," No" and they still kept coming? I don't fully know what was in the OP's brain, but she was clearly uncomfortable before the sex even occurred... she pushed his hands away, she said no, he kept going. I never claimed she did it to get him to go away, exactly. More that some/a lot of women do it to appease the guy.... kind of like a trade. "I give you what you want and you don't hurt me." I believe the phenomenon is called "gray rape." Never heard of it?
dasein Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 And I would 100% think it's borderline creepy if a woman called a guy after they slept together and he called it off, and she later called him and just pretended like he hadn't ended things. Just saying. I see, so a woman can take two months of regular contact, then travel that leads to bad sex, to make up her mind, and must be taken at her word instantly, by the man she texted daily for two months, traveled to, and had sex with, admitting that all along she wasn't sure whether anything would develop or not in her own mind. And if said man then calls her -twice- afterwards trying to change her mind, after two months of daily texting, her traveling and having sex, then it's perfectly OK to characterize that man as pushy, manipulative, creepy, weird, horrible and disrespectful. B...S... 1
verhrzn Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Yeah it's a little creepy but...who cares? Deal with it. Unless he starts casing her house or setting up surveillance on her I don't see why it's a big deal. Ignore it, it'll go away soon enough. The fact that she's not ignoring it speaks volumes to me... Yes, ignore him trespassing on your boundaries, making up an entirely different reality in his head. Ignore him being creepy and pushy. In fact, ignore him until he's broken into your house and is hacking you to pieces. I mean, geez, so the guy has set up surveillance on you, what's the big deeeeeal, it's not like he's hurting anyone!... Newsflash: this is how stalking starts. Read "The Gift of Fear" sometime, and please kindly avoid telling other people they should disregard their own survival instincts.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Yes, ignore him trespassing on your boundaries, making up an entirely different reality in his head. Ignore him being creepy and pushy. In fact, ignore him until he's broken into your house and is hacking you to pieces. I mean, geez, so the guy has set up surveillance on you, what's the big deeeeeal, it's not like he's hurting anyone!... Newsflash: this is how stalking starts. Read "The Gift of Fear" sometime, and please kindly avoid telling other people they should disregard their own survival instincts. Re-read what I wrote. If he starts crossing actual boundaries beyond being socially retarded then you can start making this into a big deal. I never said she should disregard her own worries. People have to do what's best for themselves (because honestly, nobody else is going to look after your best interests) but really, I feel no sense of sympathy for the OP and I think she should just ignore his calls and it will go away. She's free to think differently of course. Lots of people check under their cars before starting the engine, lots of people, lots of people look behind their backs everywhere they go or have their friends taste their food first to make sure it's not poisoned. It's not the way I'd choose to live, but hey paranoia works for some people...
dasein Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 But how often have you been cornered by a guy Please spare further rape culture characterizations. They are -far off topic- in this thread.
serial muse Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I see, so a woman can take two months of regular contact, then travel that leads to bad sex, to make up her mind, and must be taken at her word instantly, by the man she texted daily for two months, traveled to, and had sex with, admitting that all along she wasn't sure whether anything would develop or not in her own mind. And if said man then calls her -twice- afterwards trying to change her mind, after two months of daily texting, her traveling and having sex, then it's perfectly OK to characterize that man as pushy, manipulative, creepy, weird, horrible and disrespectful. B...S... OMG, the drama. Sheesh. What she said was not that he called, trying to change her mind. She said he acted like she had never ended it in the first place. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp.
serial muse Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Yeah it's a little creepy but...who cares? Deal with it. Unless he starts casing her house or setting up surveillance on her I don't see why it's a big deal. Ignore it, it'll go away soon enough. The fact that she's not ignoring it speaks volumes to me... She said he's a friend of her cousin and that's why she's struggling about whether to ignore it. Look. I agree that she needs to shut it down by telling him to stop calling. But is it really so incomprehensible to everyone why she hesitated to do that? Or are people maybe projecting, just a smidge?
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I swear, some people want to make cluelessness into some kind of federal case. It's not. The guy in this story isn't a monster (based on the info provided so far) he's dumb. A dead giveaway should be the fact that a) he's acting like he is and b) he's 43 and unmarried, probably never even seriously dated anybody. Jumping at shadows...
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 She said he's a friend of her cousin and that's why she's struggling about whether to ignore it. Look. I agree that she needs to shut it down by telling him to stop calling. But is it really so incomprehensible to everyone why she hesitated to do that? Or are people maybe projecting, just a smidge? Didn't she agree to go on the dates and meet him? Take some personal responsibility. It's going to burn some bridges in the sense that her cousin will likely never set her up again, but that's the debt you have to pay here. Ignore it, and if the cousin presses her on it say look the guy is weird/socially clueless/a bad lay/ugly/etc. And tell her you appreciate the help but you'll go it alone from now on when it comes to dating. Easy sweezy...
serial muse Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Didn't she agree to go on the dates and meet him? Take some personal responsibility. It's going to burn some bridges in the sense that her cousin will likely never set her up again, but that's the debt you have to pay here. Ignore it, and if the cousin presses her on it say look the guy is weird/socially clueless/a bad lay/ugly/etc. And tell her you appreciate the help but you'll go it alone from now on when it comes to dating. Easy sweezy... Here's what I don't understand. I think telling him it's over is taking personal responsibility. You date, sometimes you have sex, sometimes it doesn't work out. Right? So...um, I don't even know why people are giving her a hard time. Oh, wait, no, I do. Honestly, this thread would be less than one page, had she only realized what a terrible word "creepy" is around here. Because I can't really see anything else that people are really objecting to. 2
dasein Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 OMG, the drama. Sheesh. What she said was not that he called, trying to change her mind. She said he acted like she had never ended it in the first place. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp. Rationalization. He didn't "act" any way. He -called- her and tried to change her mind, completely reasonable response given the circumstances. I have no problem at all grasping what is going on in this thread and situation, and never have. Now, when the actuality as opposed to the fantasy engaged in here is dragged into the light of day, it's suddenly "OMG the drama" ... right.
scratch Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I see, so a woman can take two months of regular contact, then travel that leads to bad sex, to make up her mind, and must be taken at her word instantly, by the man she texted daily for two months, traveled to, and had sex with, admitting that all along she wasn't sure whether anything would develop or not in her own mind. And if said man then calls her -twice- afterwards trying to change her mind, after two months of daily texting, her traveling and having sex, then it's perfectly OK to characterize that man as pushy, manipulative, creepy, weird, horrible and disrespectful. If someone breaks up with you, and you try to change her mind, you're messing up. To the extent you disagree, I think you're way off base. However, I understand your perception of a gender-based double standard about this concept (and on this board), and think you're accurate. If I wander over to breakup section, and read threads about women trying to change guys' minds after the guys break up with them, I would contend that those women are equally pushy, manipulative, creepy, weird, horrible and disrespectful. Another thing we can probably agree on is that the "gray rape" freakshow needs to be ignored. She's easily the creepiest poster in this thread.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Here's what I don't understand. I think telling him it's over is taking personal responsibility. Right? So...um, I don't even know why people are giving her a hard time. Oh, wait, no, I do. Honestly, this thread would be less than one page, had she only realized what a terrible word "creepy" is around here. Because I can't really see anything else that people are really objecting to. I think she's seeking attention. "Oh no, a weird guy likes me, it's terrible, tell me how terrible it is so I can feel better about myself". "Creepy" is only a dirty word if you refuse to recognize your own creepiness. I have no issue with the word. It has meaning, the guy here is creepy. But he shouldn't have to change if he doesn't want to. Doesn't mean anybody should date him, but creeps are just fine the way they are. And yes, I include myself in the "creepy" category. I'm a fully functional person though, clean my own clothes and cook my own food and everything... 1
dasein Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 If someone breaks up with you, and you try to change her mind, you're messing up. To the extent you disagree, I think you're way off base. There is lots of geography between "messing up" which we all have done, and being "creepy, manipulative, pushy, weird, disrespectful, etc." all charged totally unecessary language OP uses right in her OP. No one is arguing whether the guy messed up, we can certainly agree there, but rather whether OP's characterizations of him are reasonable or needless attempts to blame someone unduly. This relates to -advice- for the OP (if she ever returns at us, self included) because it is obvious from her post that she needs some blunt advice about "people pleasing" and needing to feel perfectly free of blame in a given dating situation to the point of needlessly creating faux blame where it doesn't belong, which are likely major reasons for all her slant in the O.P., and will lead to future dating troubles. Anyway, have had my say on this, and will leave it at the rule of thumb that generally a rejection should be taken at face value, but a mere two or three contacts after the -history- posted in OP does not a creepster monster dude make the way OP wants to slant us into believing.
serial muse Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 If I wander over to breakup section, and read threads about women trying to change guys' minds after the guys break up with them, I would contend that those women are equally pushy, manipulative, creepy, weird, horrible and disrespectful. I would as well, as I said in an earlier post. But whatever. And 49322 - I don't agree that it's attention-seeking; I mean, no more than it is attention seeking to ever post on LS. We are all equally guilty, if it comes to that. Anyway, JMO, but I'm surprised you'd think you're creepy; at least as far as I see on LS, I honestly don't think you've ever come across as anything of the sort.
TigerCub Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 And yes, I include myself in the "creepy" category. I'm a fully functional person though, clean my own clothes and cook my own food and everything... What? How are you creepy? I think you're attention seeking now hehe - Honestly though, I don't think you've ever come across as creepy.
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