Communications

[beenburned]

Realist,

 

The way you described your life sounds like an open marriage. You can't compare this to lying about a secret affair.

 

I haven't read the other thread you are referring to. But I agree with the poster that said any joint assets are equally owned by both spouses, therefore both have the same legal rights of this equipment.

 

However, company phones and computers are totally off limits to someone that is not an employee and subject to fines and jail time.

[Realist3]

 

Even after D Day I didn't impose any privacy rules, all the privacy and blocking in the world won't stop an A if someone wants one. In fact, I would imagine feeling constantly watched, told what to do and restriction could be detrimental to reconciling. Boundaries, sure, but restriction is another thing altogether, seems more like policing.

 

I agree with this.

[Realist3]

A Michigan man who accessed his wife’s e-mail account while she was allegedly carrying on an affair faces up to five years in prison when he goes on trial Feb. 7 on a charge he violated a state law typically used against hackers intent on making money or mayhem.

The question for the judge or jurors who will hear the case isn’t whether Clara Walker gave Leon Walker, 33, permission to inspect her Google e-mail; he admits she didn’t know what he was up to until her e-mail messages became an issue in their divorce and child custody battle.

 

Is snooping in your spouse

 

I forgot how this case was resolved, but there have been quite a few others that have led to convictions.

[Realist3]

'Cyber-snooping' on a spouse may be tempting, but could be illegal - New York Daily News

 

Can You Be Prosecuted For Reading Your Spouses Email? | The Chicago Injury Lawyer

Edited November 6, 2012 by Realist3

[Owl]

See, I don't think pre or post would make a difference to me. I'm not her overlord and she is not mine.

 

As I have previously disclosed I am in a longterm affair that my wife knows about and she has never aksed for passwords or whatever. That is our personal space. I coulkd not imagine trying to read every email or text trying to parse the meanings. It just sems so meaningless.

 

But...had you hidden your affair, and then trickle-truthed when your wife asked you questions about what went on/etc...

 

Could you understand why she might feel the need to do so?

 

If you had violated her trust in that fashion...can you not see why she might REQUIRE some type of "proof" that you're NOW being trustworthy where you weren't before?

 

Don't confuse what trust looks like BEFORE infidelity, and after.

 

Do I think every spouse should go around reading their spouse's emails/etc...? Probably not. There's probably little benefit to it, as you allude.

 

Do I feel that a spouse who's trust has been violated and broken has a right to INSIST on access to those emails as a requirement for reconciliation after such an event? Absolutely.

 

If the WS doesn't agree...their option is to not reconcile the marriage and move on to divorce instead.

 

Don't confuse a "right to privacy" with a "need for secrecy". It was that "secrecy" that led to the need to invade the "privacy".

 

See the difference?

 

I'm not debating the legality of it or not...simply because from my perspective...the CONSENT to allow access to those emails is the key requirement here. If the choice is to reconcile...then the BS needs to INSIST on consent to read the BS's emails/etc... as part of reconciliation. So legality is a non-issue in that respect. If they refuse...they're out. No snooping required.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Owl

[underwater2010]

I believe that in a marriage privacy is what happens behind the bathroom doors. I do not want to know about your BMs or monthly problems. Other than that, there is nothing that you need to hide from your spouse, unless you are doing something wrong. You can take me to court or throw out my evidence of an affair (communication viewed without consent), but I still reserve the right to know of any actions that undermine my marriage.

[underwater2010]

We are not talking about an asset here such as you mention. It is against federal law to access say an email account that is not yours without consent.

So sue me!!

[underwater2010]

The legal issue is consent, but what I am talking about more discussions like might happen here in private messages.

 

Do you share every single interaction regardless of the form or topic with your spouse?

If he asks...absolutely. Sometimes I talk about the issues on this forum and others without him asking. I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE!!! I also respect that it makes him feel bad to see me posting on these sites. So I do so when he is not around. Yet I DO NOT hide that fact that I still participate in the sites.

[Owl]

The legal issue is consent, but what I am talking about more discussions like might happen here in private messages.

 

Do you share every single interaction regardless of the form or topic with your spouse?

 

SO...long term experience on this site and others has given me a lot of insight into a tremendous number of stories I've seen posted here.

 

And it's very, very common for an affair to START with exactly the situation/circumstance that led you to start this thread...two opposite sex people sharing/commiserating on the state of their marriage. That "attempt to help" can often be a rather emotionally intimate communication...which is precisely the kind of thing that often leads to other emotionally intimate communications.

 

Given that...my wife no longer shares/discusses those types of emotionally charged subjects in a "private message" type format like PM/IM/email...nor do I.

 

I typically will push to respond only on the "open forum" to ensure that nothing of that sort can occur.

 

Hope that helps you understand why there was concern generated on that other thread now. Go back and look at how many affairs started here with "they were talking about the issues in her marriage, and then things went on from there".

[BetrayedH]

See, I don't think pre or post would make a difference to me. I'm not her overlord and she is not mine.

 

We always had unfettered access to each other's stuff both before and after the affair. The only exception would have been during her affair when her company suddenly 'required' the use of a password on her phone. As for being her overlord, I never said any such thing. My wife wanted to rebuild trust and she knew that transparency was one route to help her do that. We had an agreement. I didn't impose anything on her. But it was certainly a requirement IF she wanted to reconcile.

 

As I have previously disclosed I am in a longterm affair that my wife knows about and she has never aksed for passwords or whatever. That is our personal space. I coulkd not imagine trying to read every email or text trying to parse the meanings. It just sems so meaningless.

 

Sounds like you have an open marriage where rebuilding trust isn't an issue. For you, reading her stuff and vice versa would be meaningless. Wasn't meaningless in my situation. I expected monogamy. When my wife broke her vow, she was going to have to rebuild trust if she expected me to stay.

 

As for legal stuff, I couldn't care less. As another poster said, sue me.

[Spark1111]

We are not talking about an asset here such as you mention. It is against federal law to access say an email account that is not yours without consent.

 

And if an H tried to sue his wife because she hacked into his personal email, a judge would throw that right out of court. Read the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

 

You have absolutely no right to privacy on the internet. You have no right to exclusion and privacy on the internet from a spouse.

 

Not from law enforcement or an employer, if you commit a crime.

 

This is the internet privacy myth.

 

Does not exist in the states.

[Furious]

I confess that I did not read the whole interaction.

 

 

 

You started your own thread, based on another thread, and then admit you failed to read the whole thread.

 

I cannot speak on everyone's behalf, but I think the majority of betrayed spouses value privacy and are not evil policing snoops. Ironically, most betrayed spouses valued and respected their spouse's privacy to the extent that they were blinded sided by the betrayal.

 

It's ironic that those who have cheated, are the one's who are most offended if their privacy is threatened rather than the act of cheating on someone who's trust was violated.

[Realist3]

But...had you hidden your affair, and then trickle-truthed when your wife asked you questions about what went on/etc...

 

Could you understand why she might feel the need to do so?

 

If you had violated her trust in that fashion...can you not see why she might REQUIRE some type of "proof" that you're NOW being trustworthy where you weren't before?

 

Don't confuse what trust looks like BEFORE infidelity, and after.

 

Do I think every spouse should go around reading their spouse's emails/etc...? Probably not. There's probably little benefit to it, as you allude.

 

Do I feel that a spouse who's trust has been violated and broken has a right to INSIST on access to those emails as a requirement for reconciliation after such an event? Absolutely.

 

If the WS doesn't agree...their option is to not reconcile the marriage and move on to divorce instead.

 

Don't confuse a "right to privacy" with a "need for secrecy". It was that "secrecy" that led to the need to invade the "privacy".

 

See the difference?

 

I'm not debating the legality of it or not...simply because from my perspective...the CONSENT to allow access to those emails is the key requirement here. If the choice is to reconcile...then the BS needs to INSIST on consent to read the BS's emails/etc... as part of reconciliation. So legality is a non-issue in that respect. If they refuse...they're out. No snooping required.

 

 

I understand what you are saying. And what you said about two people shating their stories and situations on a site such as this could lead to something certainly makes sense. I just never really would have considered this particlar forum as a "hook up" place, and more of an informational sharing of experiences.

 

I had an experience earlier this year where a facebook friend started hitting on me and sending naked pics of herself, and I wanted none of it. In that instance I did show my wife and OW the pics , more of a "can you believe this?" , but they never asked for my password to read anything or what was going on.

[Realist3]

You started your own thread, based on another thread, and then admit you failed to read the whole thread.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

It is my understanding that some of the posts were deleted, so no I could not read them. Doesn't change the subject of this thread.

[Furious]

You started your own thread, based on another thread, and then admit you failed to read the whole thread.

 

I cannot speak on everyone's behalf, but I think the majority of betrayed spouses value privacy and are not evil policing snoops. Ironically, most betrayed spouses valued and respected their spouse's privacy to the extent that they were blinded sided by the betrayal.

 

It's ironic that those who have cheated, are the one's who are most offended if their privacy is threatened rather than the act of cheating on someone who's trust was violated.

 

 

I'd also like to add to what I previously said.

 

 

You seem to have transparency confused with "breaking the law", and are warning a bunch of sleuthing paranoid betrayed spouses of their evil actions.

 

The truth is...the truly remorseful spouse is the one who insists on transparency, who initiates it of their own free will as a way of rebuilding a trust they broke.

[Realist3]

I don't have the two confused at all. Yes, I can see how a BS may request to see those things and as a means of transparency permitted.

 

But as we all know some affairs are discovered by snooping without permission.

[Furious]

I don't have the two confused at all. Yes, I can see how a BS may request to see those things and as a means of transparency permitted.

 

But as we all know some affairs are discovered by snooping without permission.

 

 

Lol.....and most affairs are conducted without permission.

[BetrayedH]

Lol.....and most affairs are conducted without permission.

 

Okay, THAT was funny.

 

It's also funny to me that my wife never once complained about how I discovered her affair. I was in her email (with permission) and saw some red flags. After that I put a GPS on her car, hired a PI to trail and videotape her, monitored every account (including work) that she had. Whole thing lasted about a year and a half from the first red flags all the way thru the divorce. She never once mentioned my sleuthing. It was a non-issue. I think she understood that my deceptive practices were pretty well eclipsed by hers. And her attorney was a complete d|ck. If he could have busted me for it, he would have.

[Realist3]

My MW's husband has a GPS on her car. Hasn't ever raised an issue, but it sure could have if we didn't know about it.

[TexasCountryGirl]

But as we all know some affairs are discovered by snooping without permission.

 

I discovered my Husbands affair because I snooped ...

Truth be told my heart never lied .. in my heart I knew it was going on ... but I forced my mind not to believe it!

But to find the evidence ... yes --- I snooped!

so does that make me wrong?

He clearly was engaging in an affair ... and it's not like he was gonna come to me and say ... hey honey .. I am gonna go have an affair and lay down with another girl ...

so I guess I am just confused because it sounds to like you are saying I am wrong for snooping.

 

Isn't that in a sense kind of like the "pot calling the kettle black" ?

[Owl]

I don't have the two confused at all. Yes, I can see how a BS may request to see those things and as a means of transparency permitted.

 

But as we all know some affairs are discovered by snooping without permission.

 

You're completely right...some affairs are discovered by snooping without permission. Perhaps the better way to state that might be that many affairs are PROVEN OUT by snooping without permission...after the affair has already been 'discovered' and 'suspected' by the BS to begin with.

 

But...so what if that's how it was "brought out into the open"?

 

It was deliberately, intentionally being concealed from the BS to begin with...to their determinent.

 

Given the scope of THAT betrayal, the minor inconvenience of having your spouse read your email is miniscule.

 

Again...I'm leaving legality out of this for the moment. Whether or not it's truly illegal is determined by lawyers and judges. Whether or not it's right (or justifiable) is determined by those involved in that particular instance.

 

I don't see how someone who has been cheating and lying to their spouse about it (even if just by omission) has any leg to stand on and complain about their privacy being violated if they're caught out by snooping. That's just an attempt at deflection at its best.

[Owl]

I understand what you are saying. And what you said about two people shating their stories and situations on a site such as this could lead to something certainly makes sense. I just never really would have considered this particlar forum as a "hook up" place, and more of an informational sharing of experiences.

 

It HAS HAPPENED, here on LS, in the past.

[Realist3]

I discovered my Husbands affair because I snooped ...

Truth be told my heart never lied .. in my heart I knew it was going on ... but I forced my mind not to believe it!

But to find the evidence ... yes --- I snooped!

so does that make me wrong?

He clearly was engaging in an affair ... and it's not like he was gonna come to me and say ... hey honey .. I am gonna go have an affair and lay down with another girl ...

so I guess I am just confused because it sounds to like you are saying I am wrong for snooping.

 

Isn't that in a sense kind of like the "pot calling the kettle black" ?

 

It may have been the right move for you. I hope you are happier because of the decision you made.

[beenburned]

realist,

 

My state is one of 13 states that are still fault states for divorces.

 

If adultery can be proven, it changes the division of the assets, in favor of the injured party.(the BS)

 

Also any money or assets bought for the affair partner, with proof provided , half will be awarded back to the BS.(marital funds)

 

I think it is funny that the person that is cheating, and disrespecting their spouse, is the one getting all bent out of shape over their hidden life being exposed!