Things I've learned about dating in the last few months

[fortyninethousand322]

But you also admit that you're not friends with many women. I have met lots of people of BOTH genders with dating problems.... some guys who can't get girls to leave them alone, and some girls who can't get guys to pay attention to them.

 

I don't have many female friends, but I do have female acquaintances. And I know for a fact that more of my male friends have gone a year or more without getting into a relationship (or sex for those looking for that only) than women who have gone a year or more without getting into a relationship.

 

In college, I knew far more single men than single women.

 

Take both of those with a grain of salt. I know I do...

[Hawakai]

Or they exist because women have been socially programmed for hundreds/thousands of years to suppress their sexual desire, and labeled whores/sluts/fallen women if they engage in sex outside marriage/a monogamous relationship. And the consequences of sex lie entirely on the woman... women get pregnant, women contract STDs at a higher rate, women are physically smaller than men and thus in a stranger-for-sex situation gone wrong, are harmed more easily...

 

Before the Industrial Revolution, it was women who were portrayed as the great seducers, the ones who couldn't control themselves in regards to sex and had to have their fathers/husbands constantly watch over them to prevent them from sinning.

 

For all you know, without the shame that comes attached to female sexuality in this society, women would be posting ads just as much.

 

Furthermore, several of those men posting ads ARE in relationships and having regular sex, they just want more of it.

 

 

1) Female virginity was extremely prized because any woman can figure it out that the baby next to her belongs to her. Can you say the same about men?

 

2) I'm sure that when the farmers were toiling away to put food in front of their lord's tables they were also wondering if Kathy, the girl they married, was going to give a good 69.

 

3) Did you know that Knights before going to war made their wives and daughters put a chastity belt on? Heck, it must've been the medieval tampoon.

 

4) I don't know where this concept of male whoreyness came to be. Do women look at Casanova and think every bloke was doing that?

 

5)Many men died because of STDS...

 

6) If you're talking about these days, only women who intend to get pregant actually get pregnant. The pill, condoms, the male pill that is coming, abortions, morning after pill, and so on.

 

7) Women are physically smaller? Pff so what? 3 hours ago I was cleaning off the white chalk my sister had on the back of her coat and 5 guys stopped their cars and headed my way because they thought I was beating my sister up.

 

A) I was attacked by 3 guys once. No one came to my rescue.

 

B) 2 homosexuals tried to rape me. No one came to help me out. Even the police only helps men because they are made to do it.

 

Women have it far easier in everything. Fact. Only white knights and women deny that.

[dasein]

Women (since we're apparently a cult collective) finally admit they have an advantage over men in dating.

 

Now what? How does that help you? In a world where this hypothetical admission occurred, what would be the result? Do you somehow see dating getting easier for men? Do you see women opening up their legs for any "nice guy" because they've finally admitted their biological parts make dating easier?

 

Why are you so insistent on women admitting this? What does it earn you?

 

Such an admission is of little consequence, agree totally, other than that men need to understand the given realities of dating, the truth of it, accept that reality, and move on to a strategy that leads to success in light of it.

 

BS, whether it comes from a PUA or the PC "all equal except when we want to be unequal" isn't useful to anyone in planning for success.

 

For example, a man who goes into OLD and believes the fallacy that women have it as hard in dating generally, might become despondent, make unfounded personal assessments, give up on OLD too soon, when he finds out his unattractive neighbor Suzy got 100 emails from OLD last week. Instead, if he understands actual reality, as opposed to PC myth, he can make more accurate assessments, discount Suzy's success as "just how it is," and move onto more productive strategies.

[verhrzn]

I don't have many female friends, but I do have female acquaintances. And I know for a fact that more of my male friends have gone a year or more without getting into a relationship (or sex for those looking for that only) than women who have gone a year or more without getting into a relationship.

 

In college, I knew far more single men than single women.

 

Take both of those with a grain of salt. I know I do...

 

Acquaintances aren't going to open up and spill their dirty dating secrets like friends will. Women especially have it pounded into their heads to NEVER appear desperate. My girlfriends yelled at me when I admitted to a first date that I hadn't been on a date in several months. So right out of the gate, you do not have adequate comparison data.

 

Yeah you knew more single men, probably because you knew more men.

 

Trying to use yourself as a measuring stick of the world is a bad idea unless you are VERY clear-eyed about your biases.

[ThaWholigan]

When something is wrong in a situation the proper course of action is to discuss what is wrong so to make the solution appear. When one comments that the dude living above him turns the music on at 6 am, he's not complaining out of ''bitterness.'' Its a nature response to having your sleep pattern disturbed.

 

What makes anything that they say likely to change anything? Unless you plan on becoming a social engineer and changing the dynamic somehow?

 

I'm waiting for you to put that belief system in a woman-made thread on whoever it was that screwed her over. Or do you reserve your cutesey shaming language for men?

 

Already have

 

Yeah, I'm sure it doesn't bother you at all. Maybe when you start interacting with men instead of having 5 thousand posts on a chick forum you might start to think differently.

 

Yes, because 5000 posts on a forum full of women completely disqualifies the large social network that I had (and still have) at my disposal . A social network that is mostly dominated by men.

 

It's always funny when people bring up my post count, like I don't talk to people .

[verhrzn]

Such an admission is of little consequence, agree totally, other than that men need to understand the given realities of dating, the truth of it, accept that reality, and move on to a strategy that leads to success in light of it.

 

BS, whether it comes from a PUA or the PC "all equal except when we want to be unequal" isn't useful to anyone in planning for success.

 

For example, a man who goes into OLD and believes the fallacy that women have it as hard in dating generally, might become despondent, make unfounded personal assessments, give up on OLD too soon, when he finds out his unattractive neighbor Suzy got 100 emails from OLD last week. Instead, if he understands actual reality, as opposed to PC myth, he can make more accurate assessments, discount Suzy's success as "just how it is," and move onto more productive strategies.

 

And what exactly is a strategy you see coming out of this? Whining? Why can't men just move onto a strategy "that works" without needing women to admit anything?

[Hawakai]

And when the dating/relationship fallacy bone is exposed and pulled away, a logical argument is made that in any way threatens the "victimhood" bone or suggests women may have some advantages over men... do not pass go, do not collect $200, straight to personal insults (amusingly inaccurate ones), snapping and growling to protect that bone at all costs. Grrrrr. Arfarf.

 

 

I did, ask her, since she has such a developed emotional intelligence why she wasn't working for Dr. Phill, and what men can do to better relate to women to increase their success rate, but that ended up deleted. I wonder why .

 

(my bitterness deleted the E-ink)

 

And I know for a fact that more of my male friends have gone a year or more without getting into a relationship (or sex for those looking for that only) than women who have gone a year or more without getting into a relationship.

I went to high school with guys who are as good-looking as Brad Pitt was in his 20's, and if they want to have a relationship they have to pick from the women they aren't attracted to because the high-end of women demand looks and loads of cash. Now picture how the average man's situation must be better.

What makes anything that they say likely to change anything? Unless you plan on becoming a social engineer and changing the dynamic somehow?

Before actions comes words. Before words, thoughts originate. What gives birth to those thoughts? The observance of what is unfair. Edited November 5, 2012 by Hawakai

[dasein]

In your opinion, do you honestly believe that women feel this is an advantage and play it down? I don't think they actually see it as an advantage at all.

 

The perception is irrelevant, subjective. All that matters is the fact that average women have an easier time getting attraction, dates and success than the average man. Have already dealt with perceptions in a tongue in cheek way, re my lack of a 12 inch penis is a continuing -perception- of disadvantage for me.

 

The whole of the PUA industry is targeted at men because men have a harder time generally dating, getting sex, etc. Women, who already have that aspect taken care of, have the -luxury- of spending lots of money on -relationship- guidance, books, gurus, the stage that comes -after- objectively measureable dating success.

[dasein]

And what exactly is a strategy you see coming out of this? Whining? Why can't men just move onto a strategy "that works" without needing women to admit anything?

 

Whining goes both ways. You can whine that women have it easier or you can whine that they don't. Reality supports the latter whine but not the former when -dating- success is separated from -relationship- success. And note that I've never been one of the posters here who dismisses your myriad posts and threads as undue "whining," something I bet you don't like when posters do that to you over and over. Why do you feel qualified to dismiss any posts here as "whining?"

 

I've devoted countless posts on this forum to specific dating strategies for men and women, most with little or no gender content at all. Feel free to read them.

[ThaWholigan]

The perception is irrelevant, subjective. All that matters is the fact that average women have an easier time getting attraction, dates and success than the average man. Have already dealt with perceptions in a tongue in cheek way, re my lack of a 12 inch penis is a continuing -perception- of disadvantage for me.

 

The whole of the PUA industry is targeted at men because men have a harder time generally dating, getting sex, etc. Women, who already have that aspect taken care of, have the -luxury- of spending lots of money on -relationship- guidance, books, gurus, the stage that comes -after- objectively measureable dating success.

 

I still do not see it personally as an advantage, nor do I see myself as disadvantaged in the dating world, despite the problems I previously had with it. That is because I perceive my problems to be of my own doing, and I do not take the external problems I have encountered personally.

 

I would concede that women have an easier time attracting people, objectively speaking you could say that is an advantage, but I still don't see what's advantageous about attracting a bunch of people you do not want to have sex with.

[ThaWholigan]

Whining goes both ways. You can whine that women have it easier or you can whine that they don't. Reality supports the latter whine but not the former when -dating- success is separated from -relationship- success. And note that I've never been one of the posters here who dismisses your myriad posts and threads as undue "whining," something I bet you don't like when posters do that to you over and over. Why do you feel qualified to dismiss any posts here as "whining?"

 

I've devoted countless posts on this forum to specific dating strategies for men and women, most with little or no gender content at all. Feel free to read them.

You do have a point there Dasein.

 

I am not one who believes one gender has it harder than the other in dating, I believe we both have our sets of problems, and I have certainly encountered a lot of misbehaving bitches too who make women look bad on a whole.

Edited November 5, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[dasein]

but I still don't see what's advantageous about attracting a bunch of people you do not want to have sex with.

 

It is a numbers game. With greater options come greater probability of desires being met. Women simply have more options generally on the front end, the dating part. If she turns up her nose at five options, is she truly on equal footing with a dude with 0 as far as -dating- as opposed to -relationship- success goes? She has an innate advantage, how she proceeds given that advantage, is a part of -relationship- success, not dating.

 

If she doesn't like the greater options she is dealt generally, she can certainly do what 95% of men -must- do from the start, take a more proactive stance in meeting men. That she has that option the average man doesn't have, take what comes easily rather than become more proactive, is yet another answer to the "advantage" question. Men generally do not have that option.

[verhrzn]

It is a numbers game. With greater options come greater probability of desires being met. Women simply have more options generally on the front end, the dating part. If she turns up her nose at five options, is she truly on equal footing with a dude with 0 as far as -dating- as opposed to -relationship- success goes? She has an innate advantage, how she proceeds given that advantage, is a part of -relationship- success, not dating.

 

If she doesn't like the greater options she is dealt generally, she can certainly do what 95% of men -must- do from the start, take a more proactive stance in meeting men. That she has that option the average man doesn't have, take what comes easily rather than become more proactive, is yet another answer to the "advantage" question. Men generally do not have that option.

 

But "options" to you may not be "options" to her. If 5 fat girls messaged you, and you didn't want to date them, are you "turning your nose up" at options?

 

Furthermore, a girl may have 5 guys willing to **** her, but that doesn't mean they want to date her. I had one or two guys this past summer that would happily sleep with me.... but they wanted nothing to do with me, relationship-wise. Could you really claim I have more "options" if guys will sleep with me, but not date me?

[ThaWholigan]

It is a numbers game. With greater options come greater probability of desires being met. Women simply have more options generally on the front end, the dating part. If she turns up her nose at five options, is she truly on equal footing with a dude with 0 as far as -dating- as opposed to -relationship- success goes? She has an innate advantage, how she proceeds given that advantage, is a part of -relationship- success, not dating.

 

If she doesn't like the greater options she is dealt generally, she can certainly do what 95% of men -must- do from the start, take a more proactive stance in meeting men. That she has that option the average man doesn't have, take what comes easily rather than become more proactive, is yet another answer to the "advantage" question. Men generally do not have that option.

That is a fair argument.

 

Here is my view though. I was once a man with 0 options (or at least I thought, I've heard contrary reports from observers within my circle). Once I started to believe in myself more and have less of a care about how the dating game was "rigged", I started to have more success, became happier, and as a result I haven't complained on here or on most places on the internet - or indeed in real life.

 

I agree that women should be a little more proactive if their options do not impress them, but most women in my experience do take the hint. Perhaps I have been blessed in that I don't encounter most of the problems that are described despite my large social circle. The problems I & people I know encounter are of a different variety, i.e. women who are underhandedly promiscuous, men who are unsatisfactory in the bedroom, infidelity, guys who get into relationships with known promiscuous girls and then get insecure about it etc.

 

Haven't encountered many "can't get any dates" problems, and of the few I have encountered, they have been equal between men and women.

[ThaWholigan]

But "options" to you may not be "options" to her. If 5 fat girls messaged you, and you didn't want to date them, are you "turning your nose up" at options?

 

Furthermore, a girl may have 5 guys willing to **** her, but that doesn't mean they want to date her. I had one or two guys this past summer that would happily sleep with me.... but they wanted nothing to do with me, relationship-wise. Could you really claim I have more "options" if guys will sleep with me, but not date me?

I suppose the argument will likely be that guys don't even have 1 fat girl to "turn their nose up" at.

[somedude81]

But "options" to you may not be "options" to her. If 5 fat girls messaged you, and you didn't want to date them, are you "turning your nose up" at options?

Why must you automatically assume that the girl only has undesirable men pursuing her?

Furthermore, a girl may have 5 guys willing to **** her, but that doesn't mean they want to date her.

Then the guys who just want sex don't count. Odds are there are quite a few guys who want to have a committed exclusive relationship with her. All she has to do is pick the one she likes best.

 

Sounds like a damn good position to be in.

[dasein]

But "options" to you may not be "options" to her. If 5 fat girls messaged you, and you didn't want to date them, are you "turning your nose up" at options?

 

Furthermore, a girl may have 5 guys willing to **** her, but that doesn't mean they want to date her. I had one or two guys this past summer that would happily sleep with me.... but they wanted nothing to do with me, relationship-wise. Could you really claim I have more "options" if guys will sleep with me, but not date me?

 

If you want me to address specific scenarios, address mine about the guy doing OLD first, which I feel is much more realistic and applicable to the topic than what you post above. OLD is a perfect example of the greater ease and greater options average women have in the beginning, the dating part, over men. As far as converting greater dating options into -relationship- success, different question.

[verhrzn]

Why must you automatically assume that the girl only has undesirable men pursuing her?

 

Well, if nothing else, because a lot of guys are extremely vocal about how awful fat women are, and because I/my friends have been in that same situation. On one of my profiles, the only time I could get a response was when I messaged a guy who had a high school diploma, made less than $18,000 a year, and was below a 50% compatibility with me.

 

And usually he just hoped I wanted sex.

 

Then the guys who just want sex don't count. Odds are there are quite a few guys who want to have a committed exclusive relationship with her. All she has to do is pick the one she likes best.

 

Sounds like a damn good position to be in.

 

Well that's all I had.... the only guys I could get are the ones who just wanted sex. You don't know the odds for girls... you are talking completely out of your butt.

 

There are probably plenty of fat, older girls who would like a committed exclusive relationship with you. Why aren't you dating them?

[ThaWholigan]

Why must you automatically assume that the girl only has undesirable men pursuing her?

 

If she isn't attracted to any of her options, logic dictates they are "undesirable" to her.

[verhrzn]

If you want me to address specific scenarios, address mine about the guy doing OLD first, which I feel is much more realistic and applicable to the topic than what you post above. OLD is a perfect example of the greater ease and greater options average women have in the beginning, the dating part, over men. As far as converting greater dating options into -relationship- success, different question.

 

Only SOME women have those advantages. OKCupid proved this by explaining that 2/3rds of the men message 1/3 of the women. Which means 2/3rd of the women were only getting some messages (if any), while the top 1/3 were getting tons.

 

So yes, SOME women have tons of options. But not ALL women.

 

Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends

[dasein]

That is a fair argument.

 

Here is my view though. I was once a man with 0 options (or at least I thought, I've heard contrary reports from observers within my circle). Once I started to believe in myself more and have less of a care about how the dating game was "rigged", I started to have more success, became happier, and as a result I haven't complained on here or on most places on the internet - or indeed in real life.

 

Well, your journey led to the right place, and lots of guys here, self included, have learned from it. I am certainly not suggesting that men should let the realities of dating color their actions or gameplan other than as "data." You will never see me suggesting that throwing up one's hands in resignation because the "game is rigged" is the way to go. If you go into a pickup bball game, and the other team is all 6' plus and your team is all shorter than 5'10, you don't throw up your hands and say "OK you guys win," HOWEVER, you -must- account their height into the equation to win the game. Same applies to differences between the average male and average female dating experiences.

[Anela]

That is a fair argument.

 

Here is my view though. I was once a man with 0 options (or at least I thought, I've heard contrary reports from observers within my circle). Once I started to believe in myself more and have less of a care about how the dating game was "rigged", I started to have more success, became happier, and as a result I haven't complained on here or on most places on the internet - or indeed in real life.

 

Yep. People tried to tell me this for *years*, not just related to dating - my focus was more on other things, with the hopes that I would meet someone along the way. I can relate to Somedude in ways - I can see why people are giving him certain pieces of advice, and I can relate to his point of view, his being stuck where he is and feeling like nothing will work. It's just annoying when I'm told, "Meh, you're a girl, you have NO problems, and if you say you do, then you're lying." You'd think I would learn by now, to not bother responding, but I DO know how he feels.

 

I agree that women should be a little more proactive if their options do not impress them, but most women in my experience do take the hint. Perhaps I have been blessed in that I don't encounter most of the problems that are described despite my large social circle. The problems I & people I know encounter are of a different variety, i.e. women who are underhandedly promiscuous, men who are unsatisfactory in the bedroom, infidelity, guys who get into relationships with known promiscuous girls and then get insecure about it etc.

 

Haven't encountered many "can't get any dates" problems, and of the few I have encountered, they have been equal between men and women.

 

I've been proactive in ways, like messaging guys on dating sites, that interested me. I've put myself out there, and been rejected. My social skills are good or bad, depending on how good I'm feeling about myself at the time, and I didn't meet more than one guy, because I was feeling like a mess, and thought they didn't deserve to be dealing with me - I didn't want to be someone's online-dating horror story.

[somedude81]

If she isn't attracted to any of her options, logic dictates they are "undesirable" to her.

Then it's her fault for not being attracted to decent men.

 

In her previous post she said If "5 fat girls messaged you, and you didn't want to date them, are you "turning your nose up" at options?"

 

Fat girls is the universal word for undesirable women. And by saying what she did, it was like she said, "you have 5 girls that nobody else wants messaging you."

 

And that was meant to insinuate that women only have guys nobody else wants, pursuing them. That just isn't the case because there are lots of good guys out there who are trying to pursue women.

 

Well, if nothing else, because a lot of guys are extremely vocal about how awful fat women are, and because I/my friends have been in that same situation.

That doesn't explain anything.

 

So you and your friends have never decent good guys express an interest?

 

On one of my profiles, the only time I could get a response was when I messaged a guy who had a high school diploma, made less than $18,000 a year, and was below a 50% compatibility with me.

 

And usually he just hoped I wanted sex.

 

Only dating is a crapshot.

 

 

There are probably plenty of fat, older girls who would like a committed exclusive relationship with you. Why aren't you dating them?

Once again pretending that women are only being pursued by undesirable men.

[Anela]

I suppose the argument will likely be that guys don't even have 1 fat girl to "turn their nose up" at.

 

They don't even notice the fat girls.

[Anela]

Then it's her fault for not being attracted to decent men.

 

Who says that they're decent???