Things I've learned about dating in the last few months

[ThaWholigan]

The last few months have been an eye-opener for me, not least in terms of dating. I lost my virginity, became more confident with women (even while putting on weight ), and learned a hell of a lot about the dynamics of dating, being rejected etc. That said, I have also been wrong about a few things that I will outline now.

 

1) A lot of PUA is full of sh*t. Now I know that I have told a lot of guys to check the stuff out, but what I'm discovering is that there is a placebo effect to a lot of it. Of all the girls that I have approached who reacted positively, what I have began to realize is that they were likely already attracted to me and the only thing I could have done past that point is f*ck it up.

 

I downloaded a PUA program entitled "Pandora's Box" by Vin Di Carlo, and went through the entire thing, talking about 8 personality types that all women are grouped in and how to get that type to like you, whichever one she is and a bunch of other stuff. It was at that point that I started to think "this is a little bit OTT". The quantum leap I experienced was basically this: Seduction by way of "creating sexual attraction" is BS. It actually cannot be done where there was little to no attraction before. On a social/personal charisma level it can work, but not much beyond that.

 

By focusing on creating attraction with girls that had none before, I was missing out on girls who actually may have had attraction and just built on that. Building attraction with a girl who is already mildly attracted to you sexually is a possibility, but the main focus is there is only one noticeable change in attraction - and that is when the guy f*cks it up somehow. Something I have been an expert at .

 

That's not to say that PUA doesn't have it's uses. The body language stuff (Rob Brinded's work in particular), some of the inner game stuff and the conversational stuff is very useful, but if you think it will make girls magically fall in love with you, it won't do that. It will just help you get better at certain stuff, like talking. Depending on the material you read.

 

Anyway, all of this led me to my next discovery....

 

2) Looks matter. Especially regarding primal attraction, they matter a hell of a lot.

 

But not quite in the way people think. You see, I see some rather average looking people of both sexed with a good looking SO and I imagine all the comments about how the good looking one could do better. But my particular theory is that it's more about TYPES. Everyone has a type - especially women. That type doesn't have to look like a 6 foot 2 male model - she just has to be her type. It sometimes helps if the man is 6 foot 2 - depending on the girl.

 

The problem with this is that guys take this to mean that you have to look like Brad Pitt or someone similar to get anywhere with women. This is also BS. You just have to be a woman's type. Not every woman has the same type. I speculate that of the many women who think Chris Hemsworth and Tyson Beckford are hot, about a third of them would f*ck them. And a woman who would f*ck one of them would probably not f*ck the other. Because they look different.

 

So looks do matter, but that doesn't mean they are stopping you from getting a girl. You will be rejected by a lot of women, sure, just like for all the women that throw themselves at the good looking guys, those same guys HAVE actually been rejected before. Some women will just not be your type, and vice versa. Become comfortable with that idea and you will find it easier.

 

And yes, please do go the gym. I admit that I struggle in this area because I am lazy, and whenever I do find the motivation to train, I never have the money to sustain myself nutritionally. Hopefully that will change in the next couple of months. But it doesn't matter, being fit will still help you in the long run.

 

I wanted to find more answers on the above 2, and a friend of mine whom I don't regularly talk to recommended Seduction Myth | Seduction Myth. They very much identify with my new views.

 

3) Girls don't have it easier. I shouldn't have to explain this but the more I speak to girls, the more I realize that it is actually difficult for them in dating aswell. We make the linear conclusion that "girls have more options, ergo girls have it easier". Wrong. Imagine if you had a bunch of women who you were not attracted to approaching you and wanting to date you, and then one who actually is attractive to you dates you and then uses you before f*cking off into the sunset. That would get annoying too. But I suppose you will say "but at least they have dates, we don't have none", well, everybody has problems. Do not try to belittle the other persons just because you think yours is harder.

 

It will not endear you.

 

4) Don't take it personally. We all get rejected. I get rejected VERY often. I accept and embrace it. It means I wasn't her type. The end. Move on and talk to more girls till one actually likes you. Even if you're small, broke, or autistic .

 

5) Having a social circle helps. It means girls find it easier to act on their attraction to you. That's if your social group is somehow mixed. It means you need either more unisex interests or a very large social network that covers a large area. I have pretty much lost contact with most of my network over the last year and despite my success, it is a lot harder to date like this. A lot harder. So I need to build it back again, and start getting back to my natural interests again.

 

6) Lastly, have a life outside of dating. It's so important. I have very strong interests that are more important right now, such as my new job, my hobbies, my trade etc, and all the things I eventually want to go and do. That means that when you actually do date a girl, you actually have sh*t to talk about because you have interests. It means your world revolves around you and not whoever you're dating/in a relationship with. Ironically, it makes it easier for a woman to connect with you, because she sees more of you when she sees the rest of your life. If your life is empty, hobby-less, or lacking a goal (even if that goal is a crummy job or not particularly ambitious on a financial level), it's difficult for her to maintain that attraction unless her life is equally empty and needs someone (you) to occupy that space.

 

That is all I have learned and tried to condense in the last week while I have been furiously trying to figure out how to advertise my services as a music tutor, which haven't been going too fruitful, but ever the optimist .

 

Let us now discuss .

[dasein]

Keep doing what you are doing and developing your own style and POV about dating. Congrats.

[MrCastle]

Agree with some stuff and respectfully disagree with others.

 

I've noticed people who first embrace pua, then get laid, end up rejecting pua stuff as if they're past it, or somehow above it. Fact is, I don't think you have your casual encounter if it wasn't for your knowledge of game, and don't think because now that you've crossed that hurdle, you no longer need the material. Dating is very much a game and you need to know how it's played. That's if you're looking to maximize success. If you're waiting for that one special girl the approach is different. There are facets of pua which over think way too much and it's more mental masturbation than anything but I'd be lying if I said my knowledge of game hasn't improved my luck with women drastically.

 

In terms of dating, women do have it easier in terms of landing a date. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. Look at the difference in threads made by men and women on here.

 

Men: "does she like me?", "how do i approach women?", " where can i meet women?", "how do i get this woman to go out with me?"

 

Women: "i slept with this guy but he hasn't called back?", "terrible date, should i just drop him?", "dating two great guys, how to pick one?"

 

The difference is clear. Most women are able to land dates and/or sexual encounters. Unsuccessful for them means bad dates, bad sex, or getting played. Unsuccessful for men means they are friend zoned, have little to no physical interactions with women, or have no women that are attracted to them.

 

They both have their problems, and neither side is always gonna get what they want, but in terms of initial dating, women have it easier in terms of being able to find dates. Maybe not with the man they truly want, but more often than not, they have more success than the unsuccessful guys.

 

I do agree you need a life outside of dating. Ironically enough, it improves your dating life. Although you should be doing things for you. Things you enjoy. Do them for you and not because you think it'll help you get a date.

[ThaWholigan]

Agree with some stuff and respectfully disagree with others.

 

I've noticed people who first embrace pua, then get laid, end up rejecting pua stuff as if they're past it, or somehow above it. Fact is, I don't think you have your casual encounter if it wasn't for your knowledge of game, and don't think because now that you've crossed that hurdle, you no longer need the material. Dating is very much a game and you need to know how it's played. That's if you're looking to maximize success. If you're waiting for that one special girl the approach is different. There are facets of pua which over think way too much and it's more mental masturbation than anything but I'd be lying if I said my knowledge of game hasn't improved my luck with women drastically.

 

I did reference that I still found some of it useful. Tao Of Badass is still one of my favorite reads, as is Secrets Of The Alpha Male. I think that Xuma's work has been more influential than the vast majority of PUA that I have read, as well as Love Systems program on Body Language, touching and sexual escalation. None of those focus on the idea that attraction can be created and that game significantly increases my chances of dating a girl who otherwise wouldn't date me.

 

Basically I subscribe to the numbers theory, and if PUA helps you to do that then so be it. But personally, PUA can sometimes also teach you to f*ck it up with girls who otherwise would have dated you had you not tried to pull some Mystery Method sh*t or something similar (NLP comes to mind).

 

In terms of dating, women do have it easier in terms of landing a date. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. Look at the difference in threads made by men and women on here.

 

Men: "does she like me?", "how do i approach women?", " where can i meet women?", "how do i get this woman to go out with me?"

 

Women: "i slept with this guy but he hasn't called back?", "terrible date, should i just drop him?", "dating two great guys, how to pick one?"

 

The difference is clear. Most women are able to land dates and/or sexual encounters. Unsuccessful for them means bad dates, bad sex, or getting played. Unsuccessful for men means they are friend zoned, have little to no physical interactions with women, or have no women that are attracted to them.

 

They both have their problems, and neither side is always gonna get what they want, but in terms of initial dating, women have it easier in terms of being able to find dates. Maybe not with the man they truly want, but more often than not, they have more success than the unsuccessful guys.

 

The problem is that that success is not really a success to them. In fact, it is a complete failure to them. To address it as "YOU HAVE IT EASIER" is not really going to change anything. So I take it for what it is: a failure.

 

I do agree you need a life outside of dating. Ironically enough, it improves your dating life. Although you should be doing things for you. Things you enjoy. Do them for you and not because you think it'll help you get a date.

 

Precisely.

[yongyong]

Did you pick up some line and expect women to respond positively?

 

Did you learn some tactics and expect women to fall for it?

 

In the end, it's not about what you say, how you do it but who does it.

 

 

1) A lot of PUA is full of sh*t.

[dasein]

The problem is that that success is not really a success to them.

 

Objective measures of "ease in dating" are easy to form and gauge. Don't buy into all their subjective -to me- nonsense. My penis won't be truly successful -to me- until it is 12 inches long. I'm still waiting.

[ThaWholigan]

Did you pick up some line and expect women to respond positively?

 

Did you learn some tactics and expect women to fall for it?

 

In the end, it's not about what you say, how you do it but who does it.

Not really, I've been reading PUA stuff for a couple of years now so this isn't exactly new to me. It's been a great help, but some of it I have disregarded as it has not been helpful in the long run. I still have all the material just in case though.

 

BTW I never used lines, routines, tricks or negs.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I would like to say, even though it's off topic, that I think that you, TW, are a boon to LoveShack and probably on the path to a life that's fulfilling on multiple levels. I hope that people having struggles will pay attention to what you've learned and what you share here.

[MrCastle]

I did reference that I still found some of it useful. Tao Of Badass is still one of my favorite reads, as is Secrets Of The Alpha Male. I think that Xuma's work has been more influential than the vast majority of PUA that I have read, as well as Love Systems program on Body Language, touching and sexual escalation. None of those focus on the idea that attraction can be created and that game significantly increases my chances of dating a girl who otherwise wouldn't date me.

 

Basically I subscribe to the numbers theory, and if PUA helps you to do that then so be it. But personally, PUA can sometimes also teach you to f*ck it up with girls who otherwise would have dated you had you not tried to pull some Mystery Method sh*t or something similar (NLP comes to mind).

[/Quote]

 

Well my whole thing about pua is I use the common sense stuff and disregard anything else. If a girl doesn't respond in a way that I find acceptable, I go no contact. To me that's common sense. Why hang around someone or talk to someone who isn't giving you the physical or emotional responses you require. Stuff like, being your own man and being able to tell a girl "no". Stuff like that that should be common sense is not all that common for some men. PUA to me basically rids you of your push over tendencies and gives you the edge you need. You're not gonna get a girl who has 0% interest in you into your bedroom, but it takes girls who have at least a slight interest in you and gives you the advice needed to close the deal. I've had girls who made it pretty obvious they were into me and in my early days, I still managed to blow my chance in an epic choke job. Pua has eliminated that. I'm not converting uninterested girls to interested ones, but I'm taking the ones that are interested and getting the most out of them.

 

 

The problem is that that success is not really a success to them. In fact, it is a complete failure to them. To address it as "YOU HAVE IT EASIER" is not really going to change anything. So I take it for what it is: a failure.

 

Yeah they are both failures but I think there are level of failures. A girl who dumps a guy because he is bad in bed and a guy who is in his 20s and can't even get a girl to kiss him are not piled under the same "failure" category. Not to me; at least. Most women have the ability to get casual encounters or dates. Most men who struggle can't even get that. There are guys here who have their days made when a girl in class smiles at them. That's how desperate they are for female interaction. Not a whole bunch of 20s-30s year old female virgins forced into celibacy. Most girls who lack sexual/dating experience do so by choice. The men who struggle have no such choice.

[threebyfate]

TW, may I suggest that a woman's type isn't only focused on corporeal traits? If you're not her type, you could be dancing on Mars and she still not be impressed with you, even though you stowed away on Curiosity.

[ThaWholigan]

Objective measures of "ease in dating" are easy to form and gauge. Don't buy into all their subjective -to me- nonsense. My penis won't be truly successful -to me- until it is 12 inches long. I'm still waiting.

 

It's not just that. I'm thinking about it from the point of view that if I had a bunch of girls trying to date me that I didn't like, or dates that went south, I would get annoyed too and think I was unsuccessful.

 

I think it's easier for women to amass dating options, but perhaps this is more to do with women not being happy with their options, while men would at least be grateful for any options. I don't know if that kind of mentality would be helpful - to me .

[mesmerized]

It's not just that. I'm thinking about it from the point of view that if I had a bunch of girls trying to date me that I didn't like, or dates that went south, I would get annoyed too and think I was unsuccessful.

 

I think it's easier for women to amass dating options, but perhaps this is more to do with women not being happy with their options, while men would at least be grateful for any options. I don't know if that kind of mentality would be helpful - to me .

 

I have male friends who have a lot of women interested in dating them, except they don't like those women and thus are always frustrated. It goes both ways.

[ThaWholigan]

I have male friends who have a lot of women interested in dating them, except they don't like those women and thus are always frustrated. It goes both ways.

I have a few friends like that. "I swear only butters girls like man :mad:" .

 

Well my whole thing about pua is I use the common sense stuff and disregard anything else. If a girl doesn't respond in a way that I find acceptable, I go no contact. To me that's common sense. Why hang around someone or talk to someone who isn't giving you the physical or emotional responses you require. Stuff like, being your own man and being able to tell a girl "no". Stuff like that that should be common sense is not all that common for some men. PUA to me basically rids you of your push over tendencies and gives you the edge you need. You're not gonna get a girl who has 0% interest in you into your bedroom, but it takes girls who have at least a slight interest in you and gives you the advice needed to close the deal. I've had girls who made it pretty obvious they were into me and in my early days, I still managed to blow my chance in an epic choke job. Pua has eliminated that. I'm not converting uninterested girls to interested ones, but I'm taking the ones that are interested and getting the most out of them.

 

I started to question whether PUA was causing a placebo effect, or whether it was actually helping me. I think it's a bit of both. I certainly learned some very vital things from PUA, but it was like a wealth of things that I took, just things I though were fundamental and a few other things that I felt were complementary to my character as an aside. So I do agree with you, it's the common sense stuff that resonated more, with a couple other things. Some of the NLP stuff interested me, but mostly the stuff to use on myself as opposed to using NLP on women.

[xdahliax]

I don't have a lot of options, I rarely get asked out. I get approached a lot, gawked at a lot, but not asked out. 9.8/10 men that approach me make make it clear that they want to sleep with me.

[AD1980]

I agree with the looks thing if a women isnt attracted to you chances are slim to none you can change that..

 

I realized that just by the times i got the evil how dare you enter my airspace looks from women before i said a word to them..

 

I think women are probably maried to a "type" a little moreso then men but i think youre a pretty good looking dude even if a women prefers blondes and youre dark haired you can get her

 

My friend rarely finds a women who hes not her "type" i on the other hand havnet found one who im there "type"

[ThaWholigan]

I agree with the looks thing if a women isnt attracted to you chances are slim to none you can change that..

 

I realized that just by the times i got the evil how dare you enter my airspace looks from women before i said a word to them..

 

I think women are probably maried to a "type" a little moreso then men but i think youre a pretty good looking dude even if a women prefers blondes and youre dark haired you can get her

 

My friend rarely finds a women who hes not her "type" i on the other hand havnet found one who im there "type"

 

I don't know - I think a lot of guys are clueless on how to boost their looks. I'm not saying you are, just that I've found this to be a problem amongst guys who do noticeably badly with women.

[threebyfate]

I think women are probably maried to a "type"

It's true some of us married our type!

[AD1980]

I don't know - I think a lot of guys are clueless on how to boost their looks. I'm not saying you are, just that I've found this to be a problem amongst guys who do noticeably badly with women.

 

Possibly..i mean if you dress like a complete bum and dont have proper hygiene you sholdnt be shocked by the results..i always try to dress nice and while im no adonis im in ok shape

 

Maybe some guys bought into the whole personality counts more with women and looks arent that important to them but thats a pretty huge myth..

 

I see how women react to my good looking friend and the overly sexual at times over the line stuff he says and gets away with and realized the power he has..

[EasyHeart]

You can't change your looks, but you can maximize what you have. Every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp-dressed man.

 

Looks are like a resume: It'll get your foot in the door, but it usually won't get you the job. And it definitely won't let you KEEP the job. Looks get you noticed, but it's your personality that steals her heart.

[ThaWholigan]

Possibly..i mean if you dress like a complete bum and dont have proper hygiene you sholdnt be shocked by the results..i always try to dress nice and while im no adonis im in ok shape

 

Maybe some guys bought into the whole personality counts more with women and looks arent that important to them but thats a pretty huge myth..

 

I see how women react to my good looking friend and the overly sexual at times over the line stuff he says and gets away with and realized the power he has..

Again I dunno. When it comes to style, I find that opinions differ and guys may think they look nice but ask a few girls and they will always find something wrong with his appearance .

 

Regarding personality, if you're her type physically then like Easyheart said it will get your foot firmly in the door. She's attracted alright. You just need your personality to complement that.

 

The problem some guys have is that they believe that there is no way to improve their looks and it's only good looking guys who get the girls yadda yadda yadda - that gets old, particularly when you've seen good looking guys strike out more than once. That's not to say that good looking guys don't get good looking girls or have some girls throwing themselves at them, but it just means that they don't have the monopoly that you guys think they have.

[AD1980]

You can't change your looks, but you can maximize what you have. Every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp-dressed man.

 

Looks are like a resume: It'll get your foot in the door, but it usually won't get you the job. And it definitely won't let you KEEP the job. Looks get you noticed, but it's your personality that steals her heart.

 

Some of us can even get our foot in the door for an interview

[yongyong]

It's the same. do you give a chance to a woman you don't find attractive?

we even get disgusted and mad by nasty looking women walking around at a bar since it kills our mood.

 

 

Some of us can even get our foot in the door for an interview

[AD1980]

It's the same. do you give a chance to a woman you don't find attractive?

we even get disgusted and mad by nasty looking women walking around at a bar since it kills our mood.

 

Im not saying women should i was just saying that not attracting women can be out of our control if we dont have the looks and its not always something that were inhernetly doing wrong other then not having good genetics

[2.50 a gallon]

One of the ways that you can increase your sexuall attractiveness is to learn to dance. Better still some dirty dancing moves.

 

When the disco craze hit in the late 70's I was living in very large singles only apartment complex. Tons of good looking ladies, many of whom I could not get into the batters box, much less make it to first base.

 

That is until by chance they showed up at the same club and saw me dancing. More than several times I was surprised to find some one grab me by the buns and turn around to find one of the not interested giving me a wink.

 

Several times they went home with me that night. And for those that had a date that night, I would find that the next time we met at the pool, it was evident that our relationship had made a large upgrade, as they wanted to go out dancing with me.

[verhrzn]

This is all glorious, Tha, and I agree with your original post entirely. I'd suggest you should start your own Pick Up Community, but let's not perpetuate the culture eh? Then again, Dr. Nerdlove came from a PUA background (and learned what to take and what to leave), and I highly recommend his stuff.

 

You ever thought about being a dating coach?

 

Also, I am morbidly curious... what are the 8 types? Mind sharing which one you think I am?