From AP to Significant Other... and lessons along the way

[Cabin]

Over the past three to four years, I've gone from friend to romantic interest to affair partner to significant other with two impending divorces.

 

It's been a messy road, of course, and a learning and growing experience to say the least.

 

Both my SO and I are now able to look back on the infancy of our romantic relationship and see the situation - and ourselves - with a little more accuracy. We are less blinded by the whirlwind of new love, but we are in no way less in love. Nor are we any less sure that we made the decision that was best for each of us. We were both in relationships that were defunct from the beginning -- not just relationships that had bored over time.

 

However, I can share some "truisms" that were provided to me when I was seeking answers on this forum a few years back... Of course, at the time, I probably wasn't open to others' advice just as you may not really be open to mine. But here are some ideas that were shared with me that I do want to reiterate as someone who's "been there" and has come out on the other (read: legitimate) side:

 

Not that was I personally was able to do the following... but I realize now if I had, things would have been quicker and smoother in the long run...

 

1) Staying in an A waiting for him to leave his W is really a big waste of time for everyone involved. If he's going to leave, he's going to. There is not likely going to be a "perfect time" just around the corner when x happens...

 

2) Going No Contact until divorce (or at least divorce proceedings are in place) is just cleaner for everyone.

 

I watched this great TED talk recently - Helen Fisher, The Brain in Love - and it talks about Lust, Romantic Love, and Attachment as the three functions of love. Ideally, we find and sustain all three with one partner.

 

I think a lot of MM (ok, and MW too) find their attachment needs satisfied with their spouse, but then the other parts of their brain that relate to lust and romantic love can be reserved for other partners without it seeming like much of a conflict of interest. As long as AP will happily accept just being the object of a married person's lust or romantic love, no life-changing decisions need to be made... and yet, they must be made. Love triangles are unsustainable and unhealthy - for all.

 

So of course I wish my SO and I had a different beginning, but I really wouldn't change it if it meant we weren't moving forward with a life together now.

 

For what this is worth.

[canuckprincess]

Over the past three to four years, I've gone from friend to romantic interest to affair partner to significant other with two impending divorces.

 

It's been a messy road, of course, and a learning and growing experience to say the least.

 

Both my SO and I are now able to look back on the infancy of our romantic relationship and see the situation - and ourselves - with a little more accuracy. We are less blinded by the whirlwind of new love, but we are in no way less in love. Nor are we any less sure that we made the decision that was best for each of us. We were both in relationships that were defunct from the beginning -- not just relationships that had bored over time.

 

However, I can share some "truisms" that were provided to me when I was seeking answers on this forum a few years back... Of course, at the time, I probably wasn't open to others' advice just as you may not really be open to mine. But here are some ideas that were shared with me that I do want to reiterate as someone who's "been there" and has come out on the other (read: legitimate) side:

 

Not that was I personally was able to do the following... but I realize now if I had, things would have been quicker and smoother in the long run...

 

1) Staying in an A waiting for him to leave his W is really a big waste of time for everyone involved. If he's going to leave, he's going to. There is not likely going to be a "perfect time" just around the corner when x happens...

 

2) Going No Contact until divorce (or at least divorce proceedings are in place) is just cleaner for everyone.

 

I watched this great TED talk recently - Helen Fisher, The Brain in Love - and it talks about Lust, Romantic Love, and Attachment as the three functions of love. Ideally, we find and sustain all three with one partner.

 

I think a lot of MM (ok, and MW too) find their attachment needs satisfied with their spouse, but then the other parts of their brain that relate to lust and romantic love can be reserved for other partners without it seeming like much of a conflict of interest. As long as AP will happily accept just being the object of a married person's lust or romantic love, no life-changing decisions need to be made... and yet, they must be made. Love triangles are unsustainable and unhealthy - for all.

 

So of course I wish my SO and I had a different beginning, but I really wouldn't change it if it meant we weren't moving forward with a life together now.

 

For what this is worth.

 

 

Thank you for sharing your wisdom from experience with us, I have some questions in reguards to my current situation,would it be ok to PM you for your input?

[MissBee]

Over the past three to four years, I've gone from friend to romantic interest to affair partner to significant other with two impending divorces.

 

It's been a messy road, of course, and a learning and growing experience to say the least.

 

Both my SO and I are now able to look back on the infancy of our romantic relationship and see the situation - and ourselves - with a little more accuracy. We are less blinded by the whirlwind of new love, but we are in no way less in love. Nor are we any less sure that we made the decision that was best for each of us. We were both in relationships that were defunct from the beginning -- not just relationships that had bored over time.

 

However, I can share some "truisms" that were provided to me when I was seeking answers on this forum a few years back... Of course, at the time, I probably wasn't open to others' advice just as you may not really be open to mine. But here are some ideas that were shared with me that I do want to reiterate as someone who's "been there" and has come out on the other (read: legitimate) side:

 

Not that was I personally was able to do the following... but I realize now if I had, things would have been quicker and smoother in the long run...

1) Staying in an A waiting for him to leave his W is really a big waste of time for everyone involved. If he's going to leave, he's going to. There is not likely going to be a "perfect time" just around the corner when x happens...

 

2) Going No Contact until divorce (or at least divorce proceedings are in place) is just cleaner for everyone.

 

I watched this great TED talk recently - Helen Fisher, The Brain in Love - and it talks about Lust, Romantic Love, and Attachment as the three functions of love. Ideally, we find and sustain all three with one partner.

 

I think a lot of MM (ok, and MW too) find their attachment needs satisfied with their spouse, but then the other parts of their brain that relate to lust and romantic love can be reserved for other partners without it seeming like much of a conflict of interest. As long as AP will happily accept just being the object of a married person's lust or romantic love, no life-changing decisions need to be made... and yet, they must be made. Love triangles are unsustainable and unhealthy - for all.

 

So of course I wish my SO and I had a different beginning, but I really wouldn't change it if it meant we weren't moving forward with a life together now.

 

For what this is worth.

 

 

Great post!

 

I agree with all you've said. I think I watched that TED talk before, it was quite interesting and makes lots of sense. I think lust and romance are easy to come by and you can indeed be married, have no intention of divorcing and lust or have romance with others. Some OW have argued though that they value this romantic love and contrast it against altruistic love or some such. For me, I want it all. Romance and lust are very easy to come by. I had it with every single boyfriend I've had and it died down eventually and most weren't right for me or people I'd ever settle down with. It's not the end all be all at all and to me is one of the most shallow, fickle and transient forms of "love". For a fling, I don't mind it, but for serious, vulnerable, emotionally intimate, life-planning, togetherness and partnership I need that and a lot more.

 

I'm not quite ready to share my updated story, but from my experience, As like you said aren't usually sustainable entities and to each her own, but I've not seen any A dynamics I'd consider particularly admirable that I'd want for myself as an ideal. I think it is possible that your A partner is someone who is better suited for you and you them...but it doesn't change the fact that an A, as a structure itself is simply not a conducive space for building an abundant relationship. I also learned that waiting or trying to help some married/taken person through their marriage is a big waste of time as you've said and a disservice to yourself. They're gonna leave or not, it shouldn't be tied to you being a soft landing place. They know what you have to offer and if they love you so much and want a life with you...it will happen. I'd rather be living my life and be surprised that my exMM true love is now single and wants us to have a relationship versus I've been his lady in waiting and hoping for 7 years as nothing changes or until a dday occurs or he decides he actually is gonna stay married. The former is a much wiser route IMO.

Edited November 1, 2012 by MissBee

[veryhappy]

I'm happy for you that you found a good match, even if not in the best or accepted circumstances.

 

My story ended with him staying with no dday, and I fully agree and would emphasize to any OW hoping to move the A to a R that more time is not the solution. More time only increases the insanity of it all, and decreases the chances of the reluctant, undecided side to leave. I have pushed for cutting down the more time requested, and I feel so good about it, because I know it would have postponed my pain, and wouldn't have solved anything other than make another half of year and holiday season tumultuous.

[Tenacity]

This is an excellent post!!!

 

Thank you for the lessons. I'm glad things worked out for you. Your insight, from your unique perspective, is very valuable!

[Silly_Girl]

Pleased to hear things are good for you Cabin. And I agree with your advice!

 

All the best.

[underwater2010]

Interesting. I wonder how many OW/OM stories end this way. On another note, how will the way the relationship started effect trust in your "legitimate" relationship?

[Pierre]

Over the past three to four years, I've gone from friend to romantic interest to affair partner to significant other with two impending divorces.

 

It's been a messy road, of course, and a learning and growing experience to say the least.

 

Both my SO and I are now able to look back on the infancy of our romantic relationship and see the situation - and ourselves - with a little more accuracy. We are less blinded by the whirlwind of new love, but we are in no way less in love. Nor are we any less sure that we made the decision that was best for each of us. We were both in relationships that were defunct from the beginning -- not just relationships that had bored over time.

 

However, I can share some "truisms" that were provided to me when I was seeking answers on this forum a few years back... Of course, at the time, I probably wasn't open to others' advice just as you may not really be open to mine. But here are some ideas that were shared with me that I do want to reiterate as someone who's "been there" and has come out on the other (read: legitimate) side:

 

Not that was I personally was able to do the following... but I realize now if I had, things would have been quicker and smoother in the long run...

 

1) Staying in an A waiting for him to leave his W is really a big waste of time for everyone involved. If he's going to leave, he's going to. There is not likely going to be a "perfect time" just around the corner when x happens...

 

2) Going No Contact until divorce (or at least divorce proceedings are in place) is just cleaner for everyone.

 

I watched this great TED talk recently - Helen Fisher, The Brain in Love - and it talks about Lust, Romantic Love, and Attachment as the three functions of love. Ideally, we find and sustain all three with one partner.

 

I think a lot of MM (ok, and MW too) find their attachment needs satisfied with their spouse, but then the other parts of their brain that relate to lust and romantic love can be reserved for other partners without it seeming like much of a conflict of interest. As long as AP will happily accept just being the object of a married person's lust or romantic love, no life-changing decisions need to be made... and yet, they must be made. Love triangles are unsustainable and unhealthy - for all.

 

So of course I wish my SO and I had a different beginning, but I really wouldn't change it if it meant we weren't moving forward with a life together now.

 

For what this is worth.

 

Excellent post.

 

The only good kind of affair is an exit affair. Everything else is a waste.

[Got it]

Cabin, good to hear the good spot you are in!

 

There were some lessons along the way that I learned.

 

One, never give more than you can stand to lose (whether that be time, money, love, friendship, etc).

 

Prioritize oneself above others especially romantic partners. Be honest with yourself and don't make rash decisions.

 

Don't settle

 

Don't get into a sum counting/tit for tat relationship. It never ends well and the tallies never add up.

 

Be happy and content for today. Don't hinge today on tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes.

 

And if you are going to be someone's mistress, recognize the amazing present you are giving them and expect actions that are in accordance with that.

 

You can't "nice" anyone into doing what you want or seeing things your way.

 

Make sure you clearly understand the perimeters of the relationship, make sure they are acceptable as they are today, and then look to actions to back it up. Continue to take pulse checks. Its okay to move on. It's okay to change your expectations but be honest on them.

 

I learned a lot, I came out a lot more humble, a lot more compassionate towards others, and a lot more realistic of adulthood. I am more open to people, I am more open to my family, and I expect less and appreciate more. I have stopped living in tomorrow. I am firmly in the now in a relationship. More accountability, less excuses.

[heartinlove]

Thanks for the great post. I wish I had read that a year ago when i first came to this site looking for people in the same position, although i wonder if I could hear it then. Im sure some people suggested it, but it was really hard to get it and be able to do it.

 

I do now see it. Staying in an affair dynamic just prolongs the affair dynamic and prolongs a decision not being made.

 

Its so hard to see the forest through the trees when you're in these situations and letting go and not connecting with the MM or AP feels anti-intuitive and painful but it is exactly what needs to happen. After 2 years, Im finally recognizing what you outlined is true.

 

Waiting in an affair just debilitates everyone emotionally and prolongs it. The illusion of the right time being around the corner is an illusion.

 

It is cleaner if they do it on their own and it is cleaner to connect after divorce proceedings are in motion.

 

I am now finally taking that advice to heart.

 

Thanks for posting that.

[Got it]

I didn't take the same path. While we broke up after dday, we did get back together after he moved out of the house but well prior to the divorce was finalized. I think S/D is by far the harder period (a great book for that is Surviving Your Boyfriend's Divorce which is not affair related). It can be done but it takes lots of communication, patience, boundaries, and a sense of humor. I don't know how much easier or harder our relationship would have been had we not dated during that period. It wasn't so difficult to really stand out in my mind. But we utilized couples counseling throughout to continue to improve our communication skills, etc.

 

Each situation is different so having the pulse of your relationship, knowing yourself, knowing what you need, specifics to each relationship, external issues/concerns, etc will all impact.

 

Even with us dating 6 months after he left the house and separated, finding out we were back together caused a great deal of static from his ex wife. I don't know if that would have lessened much.

[cocorico]

1) Staying in an A waiting for him to leave his W is really a big waste of time for everyone involved. If he's going to leave, he's going to. There is not likely going to be a "perfect time" just around the corner when x happens...

 

 

I agree with this. If your R (whatever kind of R) isn't delivering what you want from it *now* then why wait and hope it will get better? If you can't make it better, then stop wasting your time. If it is giving you enough of what you need to make staying a better option for you than leaving, then by all means hang on in there but do not pin your hopes on "some day". "Some day" is now. If your needs are not being met in your R now, what are you prepared to do to make that happen?

[cocorico]

Interesting. I wonder how many OW/OM stories end this way. On another note, how will the way the relationship started effect trust in your "legitimate" relationship?

 

I can't speak for the OP but for myself, the history of trust we built up throughout the R in all it's incarnations has stood us in good stead and provided a solid foundation. If he had lied to me I would no doubt feel different, but he proved himself to me through thick and thin, and I'm not someone who trusts others easily, of at all.

[Summer Breeze]

Interesting. I wonder how many OW/OM stories end this way. On another note, how will the way the relationship started effect trust in your "legitimate" relationship?

 

I hope neither you nor Cabin mind me addressing this.

 

I never thought my OW story would end up with having the possibility of a future with DMM but it has. I personally know quite a few couples who have been M or in LTRs that started with an A. My xH being one. I know it's reflected in most forums but I think it happens more than most would like to think.

 

The second part is something I'm going to have to face and it's something I intend on spending a lot of time talking about to him and also when we start counselling. He never lied to me and I don't believe he ever would but he has shown me that he can lie to someone he loved. If I ever get to the position that I may be the one lied to then I want to know the ins and outs of why he did what he did and where we are in all of it now. I think that my situation is not a whole lot different than that of a BS who has chosen to take the leap to trust again. I don't know if we'll get to that point and I don't know how we'll do with it if we do.

[Cabin]

Interesting. I wonder how many OW/OM stories end this way. On another note, how will the way the relationship started effect trust in your "legitimate" relationship?

 

I agree with Summer Breeze - this is more common than we may know.

Granted, there are many (a majority in fact) of As that never turn into legitimate R, but I think that says more about how prevalent infidelity really is.

 

I know personally of at least 12 couples who began their R in an A. I probably know more than this and just don't have enough backstory to know the origins of their R.

 

I've read that a study of 1000 (I think) male professionals engaged in A showed that only 3% went on to marry their AP... which at first glance seems very low. But then I think you have to consider that many people engaged in As don't intend to leave their spouse and marry their AP. I think if you actually look at the number of As where both APs want a future together, the % that turn into marriages would be much higher.

 

Incidentally, I know the divorce rate is higher for second marriages.

 

That is why - in my case - we are moving very slowly as we transition through our R. We live separately and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

[Decorative]

Oh wow. I didn't realize your ex, who you dumped for cheating on you, came into your life via an A. Doesn't that kind of support the idea that u2010 brought up about an AP turned R partner being someone you might have a hard time trusting?

 

I would think so.

 

I also know a few couples who began that way. Those that are still together, with one exception, have infidelity in their current relationships.

 

And the couple that doesn't? The wife is now an alcoholic, and their relationship is a mess.

 

But that's all anecdotal, same as the other poster, and anecdotes do not data make.

[Cabin]

 

I wish you and your SO much happiness and a very loving and nurturing future. Best wishes.

 

Thank you very much. I appreciate your kind words - and your past critical points.

 

I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone start a relationship this way if possible.

 

I remember once sometime accused me on here of taking "the easy way out" (by leaving my M).

 

Having been down this road, I can say quite certainly this is NOT the EASY way to do anything: hurting others, being judged by so many around you, re-assembling children's lives, losing half of all your money and financial stability, going through the hoops of divorce litigation, etc. It would have much EASIER to just stay put.

 

But despite the mess and complications, my SO and I know we are making the right choice. And I know some will take exception to this, but we believe we are making the right choice not only for ourselves, but for our children as well. We want our children to grow up seeing a relationship that is loving, affectionate, kind, and compatible so that they will have a better model of what they should be seeking as they grow. The R they would have seen in either of our Ms were two adults living parallel lives that were void of any real emotion/intimacy/connection/friendship.

[awkward]

Not that was I personally was able to do the following... but I realize now if I had, things would have been quicker and smoother in the long run...

 

1) Staying in an A waiting for him to leave his W is really a big waste of time for everyone involved. If he's going to leave, he's going to. There is not likely going to be a "perfect time" just around the corner when x happens...

 

2) Going No Contact until divorce (or at least divorce proceedings are in place) is just cleaner for everyone.

 

 

I think this is the jist of the advice given on this forum. When one is in an affair though, they can't see that what people are telling them is probably the best course. It is either the message or the delivery, usually both.

 

I guess people have to walk to their path and get to the other side. I'm very happy to hear that you made it and are happy. Congrats Cabin!

[Got it]

I agree with Summer Breeze - this is more common than we may know.

Granted, there are many (a majority in fact) of As that never turn into legitimate R, but I think that says more about how prevalent infidelity really is.

 

I know personally of at least 12 couples who began their R in an A. I probably know more than this and just don't have enough backstory to know the origins of their R.

 

I've read that a study of 1000 (I think) male professionals engaged in A showed that only 3% went on to marry their AP... which at first glance seems very low. But then I think you have to consider that many people engaged in As don't intend to leave their spouse and marry their AP. I think if you actually look at the number of As where both APs want a future together, the % that turn into marriages would be much higher.

 

Incidentally, I know the divorce rate is higher for second marriages.

 

That is why - in my case - we are moving very slowly as we transition through our R. We live separately and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

 

What I think also should be addressed and tends to be overlooked is the percentage of all romantic relationships that end up in marriage. Many relationships start and then fizzle out for whatever reason. Comparing that number to the relationships that are specifically affairs, etc. would be a better comparison of a "success rate". The 3% number is such a biased number, based on a very specific study of very specific information, that it carries as much water as me throwing out 50%.

 

Also, since I have never hedged my life around stats I just move forward focusing on the parties involved and evaluate their value in my life. Easier and more fulfilling.

[underwater2010]

I agree with Summer Breeze - this is more common than we may know.

Granted, there are many (a majority in fact) of As that never turn into legitimate R, but I think that says more about how prevalent infidelity really is.

 

I know personally of at least 12 couples who began their R in an A. I probably know more than this and just don't have enough backstory to know the origins of their R.

 

I've read that a study of 1000 (I think) male professionals engaged in A showed that only 3% went on to marry their AP... which at first glance seems very low. But then I think you have to consider that many people engaged in As don't intend to leave their spouse and marry their AP. I think if you actually look at the number of As where both APs want a future together, the % that turn into marriages would be much higher.

 

Incidentally, I know the divorce rate is higher for second marriages.

 

That is why - in my case - we are moving very slowly as we transition through our R. We live separately and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

I still wonder how you are going deal with trust in this new relationship. You did not answer that question. It sounds like you both cheated on your SO. So how do you not think about that?

[Got it]

underwater, I know you are addressing another but I thought I would give my insight.

 

While I do think it can come up that linear thinking also stop anyone from dating anyone who has cheated, recommitting to a WS, etc. At some point it takes a leap of faith hopefully based on sound reasoning. And ultimately knowing that even if they cheat, one will be okay.

 

In my case we both cheated. We have deep dived why, gone over the reasons, the coping mechanisms, what we see as an issue in ourselves and what we will/have changed. Just like for anyone, figuring out the why and making a conscious effort to change it. We have also done IC and CC to help our foundation.

 

I don't have a fear that he will cheat. If he does, he does. I can't control him, I can only control myself. I know that I will be fine if he does. Same goes for how he feels with me. It is one of the unknowns when you tie yourself to someone.

 

How do you know if anyone will cheat on you? How did you know the first time your SO did? You don't. Sure you will look for patterns, you will look for actions that either back up or don't back up one's words, you can do all of that but at the end of the day, you can't predict the future. If you want to stay safe, you never open yourself up. If not then you take the leap of faith and wait to see what happens.

[MourningLosses]

I think if you are prepared to engage in an A you're less judgy of As. Do you'll be less shocked and hurt if they cheat later. We are just more willing to be human than the militant "never cheat" crowd. Obviously cheating isn't ideal but it is not the worst thing.

[Cabin]

I still wonder how you are going deal with trust in this new relationship. You did not answer that question. It sounds like you both cheated on your SO. So how do you not think about that?

 

I'm not going to say that trust isn't a consideration, of course it is in any relationship.

 

Perhaps moreso now, but not necessarily because I don't trust my SO... Going through this experience has opened my eyes and increased my understanding about the complexity of relationships.

 

I am now accutely aware of how frequently people are unfaithful - emotionally or physically - in their relationships. Prior to being in my A, I really was very naive.

 

I don't have the same blind trust I had in my early 20s when getting married... but I wouldn't trade that innocence for what I have learned through my A.

 

Both my SO and I have reflected on how much a couple must protect their R to keep it from imploding or being infiltrated by another. We both see the see to plan quality time together frequently. We both agree that we need to be aware of our interactions with members of the opposite sex at work, in social situations. We both agree that our lives should be an open book to one another.

 

So, is trust an issue? Only as much as I think it can be in any R. With infidelity rates around 50%, I don't think anyone can believe that trust is only an issue when one has cheated in the past.

[MissBee]

Now it's "militant" to not be a cheater?

I think the more one strives to make cheating acceptable, the more it will happen.

 

I kind of agree with this...in terms of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

For example, I think part of the cycle of cheating and why it is so prevalent in the culture I'm from, is because women, especially, normalize it in their narratives and attitudes. Less women are resistant about it and less demand fidelity, but rather, they internalize the idea that every man cheats. I do believe this acceptance beforehand gives men a free pass and swings open the door for infidelity, as there is no standard or firm stance against it but this passive acceptance of some that it will happen.

 

Anyway, I don't think people who engage in As are "less judgy". Whatever that means. I find that most cheating men and women are just as livid about a partner cheating on them as anyone else...perhaps even more so. Being human...whatever that also means, is not about never judging or accepting every kind of behavior, which is how it is spun sometimes. As if those in As are some enlightened beings who through an A have achieved what it means to be a good and non judgmental human...ermmm...what? No. I find that line of thinking, the one of "nothing is black and white" "I never judge" "no one is perfect" to often be a point of extreme rationalization that ALL...and I do mean ALL becomes acceptable, since humans are imperfect. It's a slippery slope. I definitely have my own failings and I know those who love you can betray you and hurt you, even inadvertently, yet I juggle this knowledge and acceptance with also having some standards in my life that I hold myself and romantic partners to.

[Barrsitter]

Cabin,

 

Interesting post and very helpful. I too have come to the same conclusion: being the OW is a ludicrous waste of time and energy and really, an act of extreme self-loathing. What self-respecting woman would allow herself to be some other woman's leftovers? Really! What was I thinking?

 

And would I ever take up with xmm if he was widowed or divorced? Not so sure anymore. There was a lot about him I didn't really like. Funny how being thrown under the bus gives you the best vantage point to see the underbelly of the vehicle.