My husband says his affair didn't mean anything but I don't believe him?!

[j'adore]

If this one woman was the only concern, then I would say that it doesn't matter if it was emotional and physical. I don't see in anything you have said that he is grooming her to be his next wife...at all. I simply see a man seducing a woman for a relationship.

 

Men can get more than sex from an affair to fill a void in their lives. He would have enjoyed the admiration and letters from her as well as the sex.

 

If it was only about this woman, then I would say that you may have a chance to reconcile with him.

 

BUT...if I read correctly and he has had sex with at least two other women, then as scary as it sounds...you need to examine why you are staying with him. He has shown that he has no problem cheating with other women. I don't see him quitting.

 

You seem to focus on feeling better if it was "just sex." Why?

 

Perhaps if your marriage was sexless, then I could say this problem may be solved if the two of you solved why you have no sex. But if your marriage has never lacked in the sex department for the most part, then I can say that his serial cheating is him looking for "variety." No matter what you do...you cannot change this behavior, because you can never provide enough variety, No woman can.

 

I rarely say to leave a marriage, but in this case, it seems the most viable option for your future.

 

It makes sense to feel better if it was just sex, but he would have just moved on and not seen her 4 years. My mm sought intimacy with me not just sex. I doubt he will ever tell her the truth and she will know he is lying but accept it so as not to change anything.

[drifter777]

I agree that someone who writes a 25 page letter sounds odd, and even odder is someone who actually reads it.

 

Odder still is that someone would read 400-some emails between H and OW, find out about 2 other affairs over that same time period, and then wonder what this all means.

 

OP: Why do you want to stay with this man?

[2sunny]

Odder still is that someone would read 400-some emails between H and OW, find out about 2 other affairs over that same time period, and then wonder what this all means.

 

OP: Why do you want to stay with this man?

 

Why would you even consider staying with any man that has been spending so much time and energy on women ( or even one woman) outside of your marriage?

 

You don't have a marriage - he's lied and betrayed you!

 

Have you kicked him out and filed for divorce?

[j'adore]

Why would you even consider staying with any man that has been spending so much time and energy on women ( or even one woman) outside of your marriage?

 

You don't have a marriage - he's lied and betrayed you!

 

Have you kicked him out and filed for divorce?

 

And the reason I still see my mm not only do I love him, I consider that he really does not have a marriage, he has an arrangement.

[2sunny]

And the reason I still see my mm not only do I love him' date=' I consider that he really does not have a marriage, he has an arrangement.[/quote']

 

An arrangement that is selfishly motivated...by using two (at least) women to get what he wants/needs.

[j'adore]

This is not about me, this is about letting the OP see the truth she asked for no matter how blunt.

[2sunny]

This is not about me' date=' this is about letting the OP see the truth she asked for no matter how blunt.[/quote']

 

You made posts about you - your sad and sorry situation - that YOU decided to engage in - and still continue with - knowing what harm comes...

 

Yet YOU still DO it.

 

That's just purposely being evil.

[canuckprincess]

I have been seeing mm for 4 years plus, we have tried to end it, could be as many times, we are both not happy carrying on like this nor ending it. Recently because of the limbo, I told his wife to her face, i was told she already knew by MM. she said she didn't. There was a terrible scene and upshot is he is still seeing me, we love each other, I am sorry. I hate my situation but I know if it was just sex it would not have lasted this long. I haven't made a decision as yet but we either change it or break again. that is what happens

 

I believe that they do not discuss me at all and just ignore the truth. I know him and he would never admit to her that he loved me as it would hurt her more.

 

Ok finally a poster with a crazy situation like mine. I would love to pick your brain for some much needed advice but not in an open forum. Could I PM you?

[2sunny]

I'm a fow myself j'adore and I'm sorry to be harsh but........you think that seeing your mm for 4 years proves there is some kind of love connection. I disagree. From what you've written in this post and prior it doesn't prove love, it's just dysfunction on your part, his part and probably his wife's part if she is fully aware, (although I don't think she is, he probably lies his ass off to her).

You make excuses for his sorry treatment of you and his wife.

 

The only thing it "proves" is that she will allow him to cheat with her being willing.

[j'adore]

You made posts about you - your sad and sorry situation - that YOU decided to engage in - and still continue with - knowing what harm comes...

 

Yet YOU still DO it.

 

That's just purposely being evil.

No murder and child abuse is evil, get things in perspective you weirdo

[Anoidtoo]

An affair is an affair.. he's breached the marriage vows.. do not believe him.. He's got intentions. You need to set the ultimatum otherwise you're going to be the meat in the sandwich..

[SmithM]

Thank you all for your support. I don't have a lot of time now but over the days I've put a summary together of everything I've observed/heard. I'll come back and give answers to what was asked, but here it is:

 

 

Called this woman's husband to bail her out bc she had gotten caught in emails with MY husband, because she asked him to.

 

Has broken up and gotten back together 9 times, about half those times he was the one starting contact again

 

Offered her a job working for him; when she said no, he shelved the position bc she said she might say yes later in the year

 

Told her in an email her husband is a lucky guy, that she's "so beautiful", "so cute" when she made a joke, that she was 100% up to his standards, etc

 

Complimented her parenting skills, bragged about himself as a father, especially when she complained about her husband*

 

I've caught him looking at her profile online, her picture, and her professional profile when he knew she would see his visit

 

Read a 25 page long letter she wrote him after a break-up

 

Always took an average of 5 minutes to reply to her emails!

 

Apologized to her to get her back, saying he got scared of meeting her for sex

 

Told her it was his 1st time cheating (a lie!), basically tries to make her think he's a family man, great dad (he is, but not husband!)

 

Asked her right away if she had been with anyone else since their last breakup ( she's married too, with a child) acting possessive and writing it was "a good thing" when she answered no.

 

Only had sex with her twice in 4 years, acting conflicted in emails (he's not, he's cheated before but not like this/for this long) - I only know because she mentioned in emails.

 

Tells her about our boys, even that our oldest would love it if he met her ( but he's never introduced them)

 

Hasn't seen her in over 2 years, and recently contacted her to get together again, apologizing because she had once written how important apologies were to her.

 

 

Feedback?!

[BetrayedH]

Ugh. Your husband is a real peach. What are you doing with him, again?

 

Look, he may have liked her a lot more than the others or it wouldn't have gone on so long. But the fact is that he didn't need to have sex with her more than twice because he had other women on the side, too.

 

Plain and simple, this guy has serial cheater written all over him. He sounds like he has a system for manipulating women and I would suspect he does it with ALL women, not just the four of you. You should be running and your only question should be how far and how fast. The sooner you do it, the sooner you will begin to heal. I really hate to see him sucker you in again just to do it again.

 

I'm sorry to be so blunt and I'm very sorry for what you're going through.

[freestyle]

Thank you all for your support. I don't have a lot of time now but over the days I've put a summary together of everything I've observed/heard. I'll come back and give answers to what was asked, but here it is:

 

 

Called this woman's husband to bail her out bc she had gotten caught in emails with MY husband, because she asked him to.

 

Has broken up and gotten back together 9 times, about half those times he was the one starting contact again

 

Offered her a job working for him; when she said no, he shelved the position bc she said she might say yes later in the year

 

Told her in an email her husband is a lucky guy, that she's "so beautiful", "so cute" when she made a joke, that she was 100% up to his standards, etc

 

Complimented her parenting skills, bragged about himself as a father, especially when she complained about her husband*

 

I've caught him looking at her profile online, her picture, and her professional profile when he knew she would see his visit

 

Read a 25 page long letter she wrote him after a break-up

 

Always took an average of 5 minutes to reply to her emails!

 

Apologized to her to get her back, saying he got scared of meeting her for sex

 

Told her it was his 1st time cheating (a lie!), basically tries to make her think he's a family man, great dad (he is, but not husband!)

 

Asked her right away if she had been with anyone else since their last breakup ( she's married too, with a child) acting possessive and writing it was "a good thing" when she answered no.

 

Only had sex with her twice in 4 years, acting conflicted in emails (he's not, he's cheated before but not like this/for this long) - I only know because she mentioned in emails.

 

Tells her about our boys, even that our oldest would love it if he met her ( but he's never introduced them)

 

Hasn't seen her in over 2 years, and recently contacted her to get together again, apologizing because she had once written how important apologies were to her.

 

 

Feedback?!

 

I'm still wondering why your focus seems to be on whether or not he has feelings for one particular OW..

 

Instead of the fact that your H is a serial cheater.

 

Does it really matter? The OW is irrelevant. If it hadn't been her, it would be someone else.

Obviously your H has demonstrated that he's fully capable of lying to you about his feelings when it suits his agenda.

 

It stands to reason then, that he very well could have been lying through his teeth to that particular OW as well.

 

So, how are YOU holding up, in light of all this?

[veryhappy]

fOW.

 

You want to believe you can reconcile and they didn't mean anything. She in particular. Do you want him or is it fear of losing the life you know?

 

She wasn't just sex, you can try to convince yourself until you succeed. The fact that she ended it means he wouldn't give her up, and wouldn't give up the comforts of the marriage at the same time. If she was just sex, it was less effort to get someone else just for sex.

 

Why do you want to save your marriage so badly? Do you want him - the guy with three affairs (that you know of) or are you holding on to your hopes and dreams and can't imagine those being shattered?

[TigerCub]

Thank you all for your support. I don't have a lot of time now but over the days I've put a summary together of everything I've observed/heard. I'll come back and give answers to what was asked, but here it is:

 

 

Called this woman's husband to bail her out bc she had gotten caught in emails with MY husband, because she asked him to.

 

Has broken up and gotten back together 9 times, about half those times he was the one starting contact again

 

Offered her a job working for him; when she said no, he shelved the position bc she said she might say yes later in the year

 

Told her in an email her husband is a lucky guy, that she's "so beautiful", "so cute" when she made a joke, that she was 100% up to his standards, etc

 

Complimented her parenting skills, bragged about himself as a father, especially when she complained about her husband*

 

I've caught him looking at her profile online, her picture, and her professional profile when he knew she would see his visit

 

Read a 25 page long letter she wrote him after a break-up

 

Always took an average of 5 minutes to reply to her emails!

 

Apologized to her to get her back, saying he got scared of meeting her for sex

 

Told her it was his 1st time cheating (a lie!), basically tries to make her think he's a family man, great dad (he is, but not husband!)

 

Asked her right away if she had been with anyone else since their last breakup ( she's married too, with a child) acting possessive and writing it was "a good thing" when she answered no.

 

Only had sex with her twice in 4 years, acting conflicted in emails (he's not, he's cheated before but not like this/for this long) - I only know because she mentioned in emails.

 

Tells her about our boys, even that our oldest would love it if he met her ( but he's never introduced them)

 

Hasn't seen her in over 2 years, and recently contacted her to get together again, apologizing because she had once written how important apologies were to her.

 

 

Feedback?!

 

If she was just sex, 2 years would be plenty of time to forget about her.

Obviously he's emotionally invested as well.

 

But in the end what difference does it make?

He's not leaving and you'll eventually sweep this cheat under the rug like you did with the others.

 

I honestly don't understand why you'd accept such behavior from him.

 

I'm sorry you're in the situation you're in.

[JamesM]

 

My father was a serial cheater..........I'm sure he loved my mother, but at the end of the day it means nothing. Love is just a feeling, and if someone is incapable of putting honorable and respectful actions with that feeling, then to what difference does it make? Love is not enough!

 

The problem is that many men and women view love as just a feeling when in reality, true love is a commitment. It IS enough when it is honored.

 

If love is just a feeling, then all of us at some point will lose that feeling. A good marriage will survive because love is viewed as more than a feeling. Love must be viewed as a commitment that cannot be broken even when the "feelings of love" are gone and the "feeling" is to leave.

 

OP, your husband may love you in the sense that he has feelings for you, but true love would mean that he is committed to you and not some other woman. Based on what you have said, he is showing no true love to her or you.

 

For your marriage to survive, he must make a choice and commit to you...or leave.

[SmithM]

I agree with all the views posted. He's lying about her. I think I focus on it because I don't have a lot of info on the other 2, it appeared to be more short term. It's different with this one but he won't admit it.

 

Thanks for the perspective that he could have gotten sex with less effort from someone else, I hadn't thought of that. Also that after 2 years, he should have let go. But from the emails I've seen, she talks, he jumps. In one of them, he replied literally in 3 minutes and hadn't seen her/talked to her in almost 2 years. Had offered her a job working for him through one of his employees, but he mentioned in another email that in her letter she said she thought he had other people because he came and went... And he "stayed away" ( if you count making up a job for someone staying away). Then went back in 3 minutes flat as soon as she contacted him ( that was a professional email, and he was all over her in his reply).

 

I don't know what to think anymore, sorry for rambling. I think this matters to me because it's such an ongoing, deep betrayal. Not that sex doesn't matter, but it sounds as if this was more. And he was jealous of her being with other people ( she denied it and he said it was a good thing...). I barely say a word to him, it's been a few weeks now. We have 3 small kids and there's a lot to consider, but I keep thinking of whether he will go to her if he leaves. Thanks again.

[justcantletgo]

That's probably what my xMM is telling his BW right now as they R. That I meant nothing to him and I was just a mere internet fun when he was proposing to me a few months ago and calling me wife and confessing to me how much he loves me on videos, and sending me a lot of mushy country love songs -.-

[beenburned]

SmithM & justcantletgo,

 

Serial cheaters lie to both the OW and the spouse in order to get what they want.(which is marriage/and all it's benefits, and having sex on the side)

 

They also can have long term affairs , promising love, marriage, and kids, but yet never intending to follow through with any kind of action to back up the pretty words. They are nothing but con artists.

 

Real life example:

 

My D's STBXH had 2 OW for over 4 years. Neither of the OW knew about the other, and when they found out, all **** hit the fan. They both called my D to tell her about the affairs, and provided evidence to back up their claims.

 

He had been future faking all along, and buying them many gifts to keep them hooked.( a car for each one, one beach timeshare condo, jewelry, entertainment, paying their bills, etc.)

 

He only had a average paying job, and was charging everything and taking out loans. When he got behind he started stealing money from my D's accounts!

 

When d-day occurred my D kicked him out and immediately filed for divorce on the grounds of adultery. She will get back half of everything he spent on both OW, and she was awarded alimony due to fraud being proven.

 

All of the women dumped him! He moved out of state and immediately got a new live in GF that knows nothing of his history.

[beenburned]

SmithM,

 

What is the latest update on your situation?

[Gagirl]

He only cares about himself. He kept going back to her for the sex and an ego rub. If he dropped her as soon as you found about her then he Definately doesn't care. He read the letter because he enjoys the drama and playing women.

[SmithM]

Yes, it was 4 years, but back and forth. Every few months they started talking, then one of them would stop contact, then go after each other again. The most recent time was a couple of months ago when he wanted to get back together and she wrote a 10 paragraph email I read telling him no in no uncertain terms. Then again she emailed him a couple I'd weeks later worried about his job situation because she'd heard rumors about his company, telling him she was worried about his job but saying he should know she hoped everything would turn out alright and he would be safe.

 

Then he wrote her back trying to make her feel better, thanking her for thinking of him, which is very unlike him. But he tried to make her feel better. No response from her.

 

Then I found out. He still says she was just sex. And like I've mentioned before, he's slept with two other women but at least one was a one night stand.

 

But he's keen on convincing me that because they didn't have much contact in these 4 years, the number of years shouldn't matter. I'm still torn about his feelings for her.

 

I'm sure people will disagree with me but I will use his level of feelings/ seriousness of this affair to see if I even want to try MC. At this point, we're only co-existing.

 

How can he lie this much? Isn't there any chance that he's telling the truth despite the length of the affair?

[SmithM]

Another thing that gets me is his jealousy erich is a newer development from their 2008 emails. Just earlier this year he was asking of she had been with someone else acting all possessive even though they hadn't seen each other in almost 2 years. He says it was just banter and he was teasing her. That was not the tone I got from the messages. Who gets jealous of someone who meant only sex?

[SoleMate]

Asked her right away if she had been with anyone else since their last breakup ( she's married too, with a child) acting possessive and writing it was "a good thing" when she answered no.

This, by itself, means very little. Possessiveness of OW by MM is common even in the shallowest affairs. Unlike women, who will be possessive only when they really love a man (or for golddiggers, really love the $$$ and don't want to share), for men, possessiveness has no value in indicating whether someone is loved.

 

But I agree with everyone else, you are focussed on the wrong questions if you're trying to determine how much "love" your H has for a certain OW. His affair does mean something - that he is actively seeking and finding women outside his marriage for activities and feelings he should only be having with you.