Author comeon Posted November 10, 2012 Author Posted November 10, 2012 Ok, not sure if any of this is particularly enlightening or will be of any value to people that may run across this thread but I've thought of a few boundary issues that I'm sure BetrayedH will instantly recognize. I ordered that book finally. I'm sure the book will shed even more light on this kind of thing but I've got some little stories that I think show an obvious pattern that I just never thought would be a problem. Again until this recent relationship it never even crossed my mind that it could be a problem. Also, real quick... I'm noticing that everyone's names on here really affect how I read the posts. BetrayedH and Furious for instance... I was initially a bit defensive and intimidated by them and felt like I was offending them with my story. Both have had great advice fwiw. Snowflower and a few others just seem so nice and the image that's in my head is a beautiful angel Waytoblue, well I instantly feel sad there. Ok, This means very little I'm sure but I thought it was interesting. I chose "comeon" mostly because I was thinking things like "comeon, snap out of this" or "comeon, is this really happening to me?!" I could go on but I wondered if that ever crossed anyone's mind before. Ok, I'm going to go through a small percentage of stories of little things that I'm now seeing as clear and obvious boundary issues. I have lots of stories with my wife btw... but this is the other stuff that is related to this thread. When SnowFlower said "I bet you have an effect on women, whether you know it or not."... Well, as usual, with most of the veteran posters here... it ends up being dead on. #1 A business function in Boston sometime last year. After the event, where I give our main presentation, we're all meeting in the bar as we usually do. Women, Men, Pubs, Press, etc... Young attractive woman, age 28, comes over and introduces herself. Turns out she's going to be working with me on a future project and we start talking. As I do all too often I start getting into my family and show pictures of my daughter on our horse and my dogs and **** like that. She relates and does the whole, "how cute" and I had a horse and things like that. I start asking about her life etc... learn way too much. She has a law degree but didn't want to be a lawyer and her dad doesn't like that etc... I say things like "I'll adopt you" etc... get the idea? I see her again at a different party and she comes up and gives me a hug and I'm happy to see her and we go sit down and start talking. A dude walks up with a sour face and I say hi and move over and eventually say we should all go to this other place. Turns out it's her boyfriend I didn't see a problem with me being nice to this person but I don't think he was happy... #2 In Japan last year or maybe two years ago, I go there about once a year, there are places of questionable ethics lets just say. Judge away but there's a point here. I've made it clear that I'm not interested in sex or anything to all that know me, but I'll go have drinks and do biz with anyone... it's actually almost always interesting. So our money guy basically "buys" this really nice hostess to just keep an eye on me. Keep me out of trouble. So I'm talking with her. Actually a smart girl going to college there originally from Israel and hoping to go back soon. What do you think is first? Yup, my family and how great they are. I really think that just makes women feel more at ease in hindsight?? then about her and what the **** is she doing in here and on and on. When I get back she's emailing nice things and I feel really bad like I led her on etc... but let it fade quickly. Again, nothing sexual but... well... sigh... #3 Italy early this year. A big event run by state owned media. Lots of big money and nice dinners and models and boats and it was actually a fantastic event. At one point they sent models to everyone's rooms with handlers to deliver these gifts. Well, later that night at the little get together, nice night Italian Rivera, good food, she comes over and we, well you get it by now. talk about her, about me, and it was great I'm thinking. I have to stress that I never get sexual or any physical stuff just talking with others around. And I do talk to men as well. So she, again knowing I'm happily married, offers to go to my room. Yikes! I say I can't do that and she says she understands. Smiles at least. Cool person I'm thinking... that was it but in hindsight this all seems similar. #4 Park Cities Utah last year. Japanese Blogger and interpreter. We manage to work through the language barriers and have a good time talking. Same kind of conversations... My friends are usually around but just kinda back off I'm noticing So a week or so after she sends me her blog translated and it says some kind of weird stuff like calling me handsome and amazing and other things and she has a nice note about looking forward to seeing me again. Again nothing physical but now I'm thinking this is not quite right. #5 Two days after the OW described initially in this thread ended our "thing" I'm at a bar playing pool. I'm sitting out at some point and the waitress comes over and actually asked "why so sad" so, well, you get the picture... and hour later she's my best friend. She's happily married and has a great 2yr old btw. I enjoyed our talk but we've been back and she's still very friendly. I'm not sure if that's wrong or not but I have to guess putting all this together I've got some things to work on. #6 last Friday, last minute I decide to go to this concert. Wife can't go but suggests I go with this male friend of ours... so I do. I'm going meet wife and kids at this restaurant with a little patio. I pull up to the valet. This nice hostess is right there and she smiles and I say I'm meeting some people and she asks about my shirt and before I know it about 5mins have passed and I finally notice my family trying to get my attention on the patio. I go and sit and my daughter says with a smile "what was all that about" ... and I say "what" really, so oblivious but obviously I get a big smile and just like talking to people and having fun. Family not upset and this isn't a big deal but the more I thought about all this I'm thinking there's issues with this?? I'll stop here but there are other stories like this. I think the point is made. I would have to imagine some of these types of stories won't sit well with some people that might be a little more conservative. I'm curious what any of the veteran posters will say about this stuff. So is it so bad to be nice to the opposite sex? Is this off limits forever? I'm not hitting on these women. I'm never alone with them. Besides the obvious too close to the fire with the woman described in this thread I've never gotten into anything with any other woman besides these kinda meetings and conversations. With the recent events and hindsight I'm certainly much more aware now than I've ever been. That can't be bad? As I mentioned, I've ordered the "Not just friends" book so maybe that has the answers but I'm curious if this kind of thing is just inherently wrong? I love talking to all sorts of interesting people. Without knowing me this may be hard to speak too and I'm going to go through these stories and more with my psychologist as well. Just thought it was an interesting observation over the past few days. Also, worth mentioning that I don't keep this kind of stuff from my wife. If I go on a trip without her I fill her in on what went down.
eleanorrigby Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 You sound very full of yourself and I believe that is your main problem, exacerbating everything in your life. 2
Author comeon Posted November 10, 2012 Author Posted November 10, 2012 You sound very full of yourself and I believe that is your main problem, exacerbating everything in your life. I figured I'd get some of this. But why am I full of myself exactly? What in any of that is full of myself. Seriously I would like to know because it might help me. It's all recent stories of boundary issues that seem directly related to this thread that I started and continue to work through. I choose to believe the context is important from the bar to other countries because it's seems not to be an isolated thing... more of a general pattern. I want to hear if anyone else deals with this kind of thing. Maybe there are other people that travel and have this happen?? "exacerbating everything" ? not sure about that either. If it helps I could tell a story about how I fixed a hole in my fence last week so the dogs would stop getting out? Again, I can't post my whole life so I chose to post some things that I think have relevance.
Tara247 Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 I figured I'd get some of this. But why am I full of myself exactly? What in any of that is full of myself. Seriously I would like to know because it might help me. It's all recent stories of boundary issues that seem directly related to this thread that I started and continue to work through. I choose to believe the context is important from the bar to other countries because it's seems not to be an isolated thing... more of a general pattern. I want to hear if anyone else deals with this kind of thing. Maybe there are other people that travel and have this happen?? "exacerbating everything" ? not sure about that either. If it helps I could tell a story about how I fixed a hole in my fence last week so the dogs would stop getting out? Again, I can't post my whole life so I chose to post some things that I think have relevance. Comeon, I think the problem here is that in all these stories of "boundaries" you act like you're James Bond. So, you get hit on all the time by women. So what? I get hit on all the time by men. If you're committed to not cheating, then you're committed to not cheating, and the reverse is true as well...So, why are these stories about women finding you attractive? It doesn't matter. This is probably why some people on here think you're "full of yourself". 2
Author comeon Posted November 10, 2012 Author Posted November 10, 2012 Comeon, I think the problem here is that in all these stories of "boundaries" you act like you're James Bond. So, you get hit on all the time by women. So what? I get hit on all the time by men. If you're committed to not cheating, then you're committed to not cheating, and the reverse is true as well...So, why are these stories about women finding you attractive? It doesn't matter. This is probably why some people on here think you're "full of yourself". I hear ya. I don't think I'm James Bond. I don't see it as getting hit on, especially when it was happening. Just seems like good honest conversation with good people. How is talking about family and life in general hitting on someone? I said, nothing physical or sexual is discussed.. mostly kids and life goals and other things like that. I'm certainly not "all that" but I do think I crossed boundaries. Does no body else go through this? Since you get hit on by men, do you ever go too far wit h that? do you have conversations with men like I'm talking about? Is that stuff ok? do I have to stop that?
Author comeon Posted November 10, 2012 Author Posted November 10, 2012 They actually sound like stories about women who perceive him as friendly, but harmless, therefore, "safe." It doesn't really sound like most of, or any of these women, are perceiving him in a "sexualized" way at all. What's strange about it all is that OP perceives himself in that James Bond way you mention when it's pretty clear that's not happening at all. I think you're right about this first part. So is that stuff bad? That's the question. I honestly don't see myself as anything close to James Bond... I'm just a normal guy. I hate that I'm coming off as a douche or "full of myself" ... really not the intent.
Author comeon Posted November 10, 2012 Author Posted November 10, 2012 Perhaps, as with these various friendships you tend to form, you read an intent into your perceptions of others, that just isn't there at all. Yeah, but don't we all. Did the name thing ever occur to you? Does yours mean anything? I think I'm always reading into everything especially lately and especially in hindsight. The issue I'm seeing is that there are real results from some of these encounters that cause problems that are certainly there. Even the relatively innocent hostess conversation affected my daughter. I'd love to believe I'm making too big of a deal about all of this and I can just keep being friendly to both men and women? that would make me happy. Before the last few months I thought everything in life was just great. And now I keep having to re-evaluate. Right now I'm trying to figure out if I am "full of myself" for instance. How bout you Doug? What are your boundaries along these lines?
Tara247 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 I hear ya. I don't think I'm James Bond. I don't see it as getting hit on, especially when it was happening. Just seems like good honest conversation with good people. How is talking about family and life in general hitting on someone? I said, nothing physical or sexual is discussed.. mostly kids and life goals and other things like that. I'm certainly not "all that" but I do think I crossed boundaries. Does no body else go through this? Since you get hit on by men, do you ever go too far wit h that? do you have conversations with men like I'm talking about? Is that stuff ok? do I have to stop that? Comeon, I'm currently not in a relationship, but am dating here and there. Yes, you crossed boundaries. When I was married and in other relationships, I wouldn't entertain certain situations with the opposite sex whether that be intimate conversations, flirtations, close proximity, etc. However, if I wanted to do that, it would not have been hard to do. So, you are crossing these boundaries because you want to cross these boundaries. It's as simple as that. There's nothing to figure out. You know these women are attracted to/interested in you. You're not stupid.
Tara247 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 How bout you Doug? What are your boundaries along these lines? The boundaries are that if you are in a relationship and intent on keeping that relationship intact, you don't entertain romantic possibilities with other people. It really is that simple. For example, comeon, if a woman gives you and inviting look at a restaurant, you don't entertain that, you politely turn the other way. See how simple that is? All this talk about you're just reacting, you don't invite this, blah, blah, is just meaningless talk. If you really didn't want these women coming on to you, you would not engage in any way. You're not being honest about this. 2
BetrayedH Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 Good things to think about, in my opinion. Most of us don't see any of these things as a problem until after we've dealt with infidelity. The reality is what you're seeing now. You have crossed one small boundary after another in an "innocent" fashion and then an affair "just happened." No, actually there were a million very small stop signs that you ran right through without consequence and so you kept going. Marriage is a terribly fragile thing. To have a special bond with just one person for the rest of your life goes against the grain. We'd like to have everyone love us. To just have it with one person requires an immense amount of effort and it has to be done by both parties. Sadly, most of us start to take our marriages for granted as time goes on and that's when it probably requires the most work. Thus, we find a 50% divorce rate. Where you put your boundaries depends entirely upon how much you prioritize your marriage in comparison to those other relationships. I suspect your relationship with a hostess is pretty irrelevant. A common rule is to never discuss your marriage with someone of the opposite sex. Many will never permit themselves to be alone in a room with someone o the opposite sex, even at work. What's interesting to me is that we seem a bit timid about telling people that we have such boundaries but if you were to explain to someone that you don't have one-on-one meetings with someone of the opposite sex with the office door closed (or at all), most would say, "Ok, no big deal. How about the conference room instead of your office? Nice that you have such a commitment to your wife." I'll admit I'm not a super freak about boundaries. But I am much more aware now and I will make decisions to keep myself out of tempting situations much earlier than I ever would have before. I think almost anyone is susceptible to an affair. It happened to my wife. Before my wife's affair, if an attractive woman started at my workplace, turned out to be an ally and partner on a lot of things, talked to me about her troubled marriage (and I about mine), it would only take one person to have a twinkle in their eye and it could have happened. I'm not perfect and my marriage wasn't either. Now it would be near impossible because I would never let anyone attractive get that close to me. I would shut it down 100 stop signs early. Nice job ordering the book, by the way. It really is perfectly appropriate. 1
Spark1111 Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 I notice those with strong boundaries introduce their spouse by name early in a conversation with any member of the opposite sex, whether friend, co worker, or waitress. They say "we" a lot, and speak of their likes and dislikes, or joys and travels often. Whether they realize it or not, it shouts I am happily in a committed relationship, and I find it very sweet. It speaks of respect and let's the listener know they are in a close relationship, therefore off limits. If flirting with the waitress or co worker is more exciting than cherishing your spouse enough to mention her often, therefore discouraging flirtatious communicating, then surely, you must ask yourself why the attention of strangers is more important than the mention of your spouse. People who are happy in their relationship do find it necessary to seek the attention and validation of attractive strangers. He'll, they don't even notice it half the time or find it amusing or comical when it does happen. And they share it with their SO when it does happen. 4
Decorative Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 I hear ya. I don't think I'm James Bond. I don't see it as getting hit on, especially when it was happening. Just seems like good honest conversation with good people. How is talking about family and life in general hitting on someone? I said, nothing physical or sexual is discussed.. mostly kids and life goals and other things like that. I'm certainly not "all that" but I do think I crossed boundaries. Does no body else go through this? Since you get hit on by men, do you ever go too far wit h that? do you have conversations with men like I'm talking about? Is that stuff ok? do I have to stop that? I never go too far. Ever. I have rock solid boundaries. I know how to shut it down, because it is disrespectful to my spouse, and to myself not to.
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