Mme. Chaucer Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 Originally Posted by Mme. Chaucer That wasn't a "boyfriend." And if I recall correctly, you told him about kissing a girl the first night you met … in a bar … from whence you went back to his hotel and had sex. Uh, no, that never happened. You are imagining things. Again, goes to show that you are judging the situation based on mistaken information. Go back and read my threads if you wish -- never claimed that I told him about kissing a girl the first night I met. I didn't tell him until about a month and a half into it. Also, didn't go home with him on teh first night. Sorry - I stand corrected. I just re-read your first thread about this casual sex fling you have somehow managed to conflate, in your mind, into a "relationship," and I see that you didn't start having sex with him until you'd met in the bar 3 times, and didn't tell him about kissing girls until a couple of weeks later (in your very short - lived liaison with this traveling opportunist). Here's a link. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/346488-being-played If YOU re-read it yourself, you might be able to understand, for your own sake, how you manufactured something out of not much with that guy and how you are similarly trying to do it with this one. Luckily for YOUR sake, this guy is less available to get into a fake relationship with you and then be vilified for participating in it by you. Which is, now that I think of it, not only lucky, but amazing. How can a guy be even LESS available than one who doesn't even live where you do and who doesn't call you on the phone OR answer your Skype messages (when he is ON SKYPE !!) when he is wherever he does live? And with whom you carried on a sexual affair AND NOTHING ELSE for a grand total of a maximum of NINE WEEKS, when he happened to be in your town? And who, according to YOU, visited prostitutes during that short period, and WHO DID NOT THINK YOU WERE IN A RELATIONSHIP?? How could you think that was a "boyfriend"? Seriously. Do you want to have a successful relationship with a man (or with some men) in your life at some point? I think that you do. If this is the case, then please, please, step out of the state of denial where you currently are residing. It sounds like you so want it, that you are manufacturing all of the aspects of a relationship where none exists, including stuff like righteous indignation when a guy doesn't communicate with you how or when you think he should … except, it's a guy you have NOTHING TO DO WITH. You might need some professional help. You're 37 years old, right? Might you consider that YOU might be contributing a significant amount to the situations you find yourself in? That is never going to happen again -- not even after going on multiple dates with a guy. If he can't wait for a few months, he's not worth my time. I will let him know this early on (in one of the first few dates). You might want to adjust your position. A guy might not want to wait a few months to have sex with a woman he's dating. This does not mean he's "not worth your time." You and he might not have compatible dating styles. But if YOU are not ready to start having a sexual relationship with anyone until you've been dating for a few months, that is fine and you SHOULD be true to yourself on that. Just don't get all high and mighty about what a jerk all the guys are who aren't waiting around. Some of them might be jerks, and some of them might be easygoing about sex and want to explore that early on in getting to know a woman. BE TRUE TO YOURSELF. And stop projecting a lot of fantastic nonsense onto other people, especially if you seriously hope to join your life with another person. It is NOT going to be possible, at least not in any kind of a healthy and positive way, if you insist in keeping this craziness up.
Author NoMoreJerks Posted October 31, 2012 Author Posted October 31, 2012 Drseussgrrl, fair enough, but This guy wasn't. Then you got mad at him for "playing mind games" because he wasn't acting interested enough. Yeah he blew you off and that sucks but that's what people do when they aren't interested. It wasn't because he wasn't interested enough. It was because he blew me off. Asked me out on a date, then blew me off. If he had said he wasn't interested, or demonstrated disinterest without asking me out/confirming the date, then fine. I just don't understand the mentality that drove him to ask me out, then cancel on me. Was it an ego thing he was doing, or what? This is the first time that a guy who wasn't interested, sets up a date. He also texted me even after I let go of the whole thing after he cancelled the date. That to me indicates that he is playing mind games / keeping me as a side option for a **** buddy thing. That just makes me fume. And normally I would tell off a guy, but in this case, I think this guy, given his mind games, would like that sort of attention and I'm not about to give it to him. Ignoring such scumbags is sometimes the best answer.
Author NoMoreJerks Posted October 31, 2012 Author Posted October 31, 2012 You're 37 years old, right? Nope. I am 29.
Drseussgrrl Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 Well to be honest I have given lame excuses to get out of a date because I just didn't feel like being the ********* who was all "Look I just don't like you like that." Again, that's just dating. Yeah, he probably is stringing you along and looking to see how far you'll go to see him, blah blah. But you sort of created this dynamic by pursuing him. You can't expect to contact him first then expect for him to immediately jump into the roll of interested pursuer. This is why you always let a man contact you first and ask you out on a proper date. There is little room to interpret his interest at that point - it's clear he wants to spend time with you. If you make this one small change I guarantee you that you will feel a shift in the dynamic between you and men. The rest you just have to let roll off your back. It's gonna happen. Now I just kind of shrug my shoulders and think - "next". 2
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 Nope. I am 29. I know, that was another typo. Anyway, you really should be looking inward, at yourself and what you get yourself into and the way you react. You are old enough to know this. And you are old enough to be at a point where you hold yourself accountable and to a higher standard of behavior YOURSELF. I'm NOT talking about holding guys who you barely know to a standard. Not at all. It is not appropriate to get yourself into any kind of emotional situation whatsoever with guys who don't work out for whatever reason - whether they're "players," clueless losers, or fine people who just don't mesh with you … or who don't want the same thing with you that you may want with them. Own YOU. Stop focussing outward. And blaming. Please.
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 But you sort of created this dynamic by pursuing him. You can't expect to contact him first then expect for him to immediately jump into the roll of interested pursuer. This is why you always let a man contact you first and ask you out on a proper date. There is little room to interpret his interest at that point - it's clear he wants to spend time with you. If you make this one small change I guarantee you that you will feel a shift in the dynamic between you and men. Though I agree with you for this particular poster, and for anyone who feels the way you do, I would like to point out that in general, it's not "wrong" for a woman to initiate contact. It's just wrong if she is not able to deal with the dynamic that it sets up. Which, clearly, the OP is not. The rest you just have to let roll off your back. It's gonna happen. Now I just kind of shrug my shoulders and think - "next". No kidding. And we have to extend some compassion to the guys, too, if we are going to leave ALL the onus of initiating and facing rejection. But it's something we all deal with, when we are dating. No use getting all full of character assassination and blame because someone we don't even know isn't into us, or wants something different than we do, or even who takes advantage of what we "offer" when we want something different than they do.
Drseussgrrl Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 I don't like pursuing men either for this very reason. It just doesn't feel natural to me and I always gauge a man's interest by his amount of consistent communication in the beginning, and how often he's trying to see me. All of my ltr's have started out in this fashion. If he's acting all flaky I don't really make any bones about it. What I DON'T do at that point is pick up the slack for him and increase the amount I'm contacting him. Clearly he just isn't into me. Too bad so sad. 2
scratch Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 If anything, his behaviour is rather representative of the majority of the male population these days. This thread is not about a man whom I met and talked to for 3 hours and don't ever want to see or hear from again. It's about men's behaviour in general, and disrespect for women in particular. The sad part is that some women are willing participants in this cycle of disrespect. I re-read the fact pattern in your opening post. I texted him 2 days later, saying, I had enjoyed my time with him, and that I hoped to see him again soon, and suggested that we could have dinner some time. He didn't reply for a day and a half. And then he texted me back, saying that he also had enjoyed our time together, and that maybe we could go to dinner, tentatively , on a Saturday evening? Sounds like you asked him out. When I ask a girl to dinner, they tell me all the time that they can "maybe, tentatively," meet. I read between the lines there pretty quickly, and would encourage you to take the personal responsibility to do the same. Is it better when they just say "no?" Sure it is, but that puts the full burden on one person instead of sharing it. Be ready to do your part, instead of vilifying men as disrespectful and women as weak enablers. Ha - whoever said I am not? Patience is one thing -- accepting to go along with mind games, is quite another. Again, just because a guy doesn't comport himself in precisely the manner you wish he had doesn't mean he played mind games. You asked about contact rules - the rule is that if he's interested, he'll contact you. I invite you to find a post (or poster) on this board where a guy exchanged numbers with a girl, was very interested, but isn't sure if he should contact her because she may not be interested. If he is interested, he will at least try unless his confidence is miserably lacking. It's not about "accomplishing" anything -- it's about being in control of my own fate rather than sitting and going through a list of "what if"s. You can't have it both ways - if you take control in terms of initiating contact, you are necessarily ceding control in the opposite sense. Do I need to elaborate here? I don't need a guy chasing me around in order to know what I'm interested in and what I want and don't want. I don't need a guy chasing me around for reassurance that I'm "pretty enough" or "smart enough." To me, the sort of behaviour you are prescribing is a symptom of lack of confidence and self-esteem, which, oddly and ironically enough, I am being accused of having.... There is a vast chasm between seeking validation and leaving the initiation element of control in the man's hands, while retaining the acceptance element of control. If he makes me wait, I make him wait. Otherwise, I don't feel the need to make anyone wait. I know what I want in life, and what I look for in a guy. This seems incongruent with your position that a guy will have to wait for "a few months." I have learned that the only appropriate way of dealing with mind games, though, is through tit-for-tat. Will it get me the guy? No. But that is NEVER the point, is it? Why would I want a guy who acts that way with me anyway?!?! The goal is not to hurt them before they hurt me. The goal is to give them a taste of their own medicine, AFTER they have behaved in that fashion with me. "Tit for tat" is a good strategy for repeat play strategic interaction with the same person; you're really proposing a "pay it forward" strategy with the next person; you may find it less effective than you hope. We all fantasize about getting revenge on the person that hurt us, but usually it's just that - a fantasy. Move forward, and try to find a way to protect yourself that doesn't alienate the person to whom you're trying to get close. I'm still working out how to do that, myself.
Author NoMoreJerks Posted October 31, 2012 Author Posted October 31, 2012 Well to be honest I have given lame excuses to get out of a date because I just didn't feel like being the ********* who was all "Look I just don't like you like that." Again, that's just dating. Yeah, he probably is stringing you along and looking to see how far you'll go to see him, blah blah. But you sort of created this dynamic by pursuing him. You can't expect to contact him first then expect for him to immediately jump into the roll of interested pursuer. This is why you always let a man contact you first and ask you out on a proper date. There is little room to interpret his interest at that point - it's clear he wants to spend time with you. If you make this one small change I guarantee you that you will feel a shift in the dynamic between you and men. The rest you just have to let roll off your back. It's gonna happen. Now I just kind of shrug my shoulders and think - "next". OK, that makes sense -- guess I should be adopting the philosophy of not initiating contact. It just doesn't feel like "me", and that is why I don't do that often. In the past I have not given out my number to men, and so had no chance of initiating contact even if I had wanted to, but that was because I was shy (years ago), and felt awkward about asking for his number, even after he asked for mine.
Drseussgrrl Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 Yes girl you just need to relax and go with it. Stop over-analyzing every little thing and let a man show you what he's made of. You really don't have to do anything but be receptive. Yes, call a man back. Yes text him back quickly. Say yes when he asks you out. Just watch what he does. His true intentions become apparent rather quickly if you're not trying to force it. And if it isn't working for you, hey no big deal. Move on to the next. 2
jcrew11 Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 OK, that makes sense -- guess I should be adopting the philosophy of not initiating contact. It just doesn't feel like "me", and that is why I don't do that often. In the past I have not given out my number to men, and so had no chance of initiating contact even if I had wanted to, but that was because I was shy (years ago), and felt awkward about asking for his number, even after he asked for mine. You have to keep your emotions in check. Don't call a guy a "scumbag" just because his interest level is low and he is a flaky guy or just doesn't have time to focus on "dating relationships." The problem is that you have no "dating experience with men" and you are just ignorant and naive about how lazy and clueless men are in dating. I would say you have more to worry about the "aggressive stalker cassanovas" like your ex-boyfriend because all they want is sex as soon as possible and put on high-pressure sales techniques to get you in bed. Most average guys and girls expect relationships to be taken slowly over weeks and months before consummation. You are just really screwed up and warped in your "dating paradigm." ONLY date local men. Its is a waste of time and heartache to make a long-distance relationship work. LDR is just a protective maneuver for the man to never make a long term commitment to a woman because he has an excuse that his house is in another state. I actually have no problem with the idea of aggressive women "making the first move and calling." The woman does put herself into an emotional fragile position if the guy rejects her. And I think that is why the OP is so upset, because he did not match her "high level of interest." She expected him to be as committed to seeing her, instead he didn't call back, didn't text back, and cancelled the date. An old woman needs to be aggressive because her biological clock is ticking, while a man can wait forever. But an experienced woman knows not to get emotionally attached to any guy so soon, or any unanswered phone calls. Once you've gone out on a few more dates with different guys, then you'll know to expect a slower pace in the early stages of a new relationship. You may be politically liberal, but you are very, very socially conservative. I don't know if you are studying "feminist sociology" but 99% of the non-church going singles out there under 30 no longer expect to be with only One Man or One woman in their life. Your worldview on dating is very traditional and out-dated.
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