When a guy is seriously interested, he will jump through flaming hoops for you

October 25, 2012

It should be mutual sure but when a dude is texting sporadically asking you to "hang out" without any real plan he just plain ol' isn't into you.

I move on from these types.

October 25, 2012

Not really. Mostly I see men doing this sort of thing, not women. The women I know -- and I know tons of women , both as friends and acquaintances -- know what they want and if the guy is not the right person for them, they don't string him along. I am the same. I used to talk with a guy in the army, who was genuinely interested in me, and was by all means a nice guy. We talked for months, and at some point, I just realized we weren't a good match, and I told him right away. It hurt him like hell, because he had developed feelings for me, but I had to do it as soon as I realized it, because I couldn't forgive myself for stringing him along and playing with his feelings. I had done enough damage. I also cut off contact with him entirely, because I knew that if I kept in touch with him as a friend, it would still give him hope that it might work out...

We'll see what more men have to say on that subject if they decide to chime in (probably not as it's somewhat off-topic). If there's one subject on which the majority of LS regulars actually reach the RIGHT consensus, it's that neither gender has the monopoly on being misleading and/or wishy-washy when it comes to dating. Also, keep in mind that a lot of people will embellish what their romantic interactions are really like in order to keep up appearances. You might be very straightforward, but a lot of women really are not. Take it from someone that actually dates you.

However, I don't doubt for a second that in your case, your ex was a douchecanoe.

October 25, 2012

I grew up with a brother close to my age and many male friends. I have seen first hand to what lengths a guy would go to for a girl he truly desires. I have also observed how differently they act when it's a girl they are "meh" about.

When I recognize "meh" behavior from a guy in my own life, it's very hard for me to open up and go forward.

Just so you don't think all my references are from movies, CE and Pyro are perfect example of what I am talking about, both going that extra mile and enduring hardship because they wanted to be together so badly.

I actually watched the movie, though I would not have by the the title, though it had JP in it who I like as an actor. It would kill that jewish woman to find out that ring was for another woman, and he only changed his mind at the last minute. You hate the thought of being settled for, yet a number of your friends have confessed to you they settled for the guy they are with. It goes both ways. Its possibly easier for guys to be settled for, because they are expected to do most of the effort so don't have that ability to measure the woman's level of enthusiasm. I have seen some of my fiends miss out on the girl/guy they were crazy over, to then very soon after settle down with the next woman/man that came along (but with less passion). I suspect many people are the near enough is good enough person, and it will work out fine as long as they really don't know the truth. I bet many here reminisce over a past love they really wish it could have worked out differently with.

You are lucky then ES, in that you have an advantage with this experience ^ over lots of other women then. You seem to be worried about being settled for but you know the signs well enough to be able to avoid it as much as possible. It sucks when the ones you wished would really show more unbridled enthusiasm don't, but it will be in your best interests that you don't repeat the past. You seem to have plenty of options and that definitely makes being single not so crappy and that's a great start for getting what you want eventually as long as your expectations are reasonable.

Like, "God I jumped through flaming hoops for this girl and she friend zoned me" sounds a lot suckier for him than "God I jumped through flaming hoops for this girl and she gave me hot, NSA sex whenever I wanted it."

Its very rare for the 2nd scenario. If a girl is down for NSA sex with a guy she does not throw out a bunch of hurdles for him to jump over. He is hot and that's pretty much his ticket to her bedroom. Edited October 25, 2012 by ascendotum

October 25, 2012

I grew up with a brother close to my age and many male friends. I have seen first hand to what lengths a guy would go to for a girl he truly desires.

Hey ES,

Yeah, but whenver I've seen guys act like that it was when the girls didn't like them back. As Ninja also pointed out.

I've seen my brother act like that with a girl but she was clearly not into him and eventually broke up with him. That only made him jump through more and higher hoops to turn the situation around.

I've also been on the receiving end of guys like that (as you have) and it's always been guys that I didn't want to date.

I think that guys usually act more normal (while they still show interest) unless something makes them go crazy and they become infatuated.

Btw, I want to see that movie now.

October 25, 2012

I'm not talking about initially. Why would you have passion about someone you just met?

I'm talking about after a couple dates.

As long as we are sleeping together. I mean that pretty much is the only way I know a woman is genuinely interested. At any point up until sex they can & will *poof*

Well, lesson learned: don't hang out with women that flash their underwear in public. You don't get much out of attention seeking, bad quality people. No surprises there.

Yeah, I kinda figured that out now. LOL!

When she came back around I pretty much told her not to waste my time & either get with me or get lost.

She flaked. big surprise.

October 25, 2012

Also, not disappearing after sex does not mean being interested in more than sex / wanting to have a relationship with you. My ex didn't disappear after the first time we had sex, but he still used me for sex and it eventually turned out that he was not interested in more than sex...

October 25, 2012

Also, not disappearing after sex does not mean being interested in more than sex / wanting to have a relationship with you. My ex didn't disappear after the first time we had sex, but he still used me for sex and it eventually turned out that he was not interested in more than sex...

You don't really sound like you would be a fun girl. Being easy going is NOT counter-productive, if you don't get sucked in by the wrong men. I dont know how many times you have been screwed over, but I know a few former sweet heart of gold girls who dated lots of jerks and are now bitter and I would not want them for gf and I don't feel sorry for them. They went for style of substance guys again and a again while nice romantic guys were boring or lamos. They now talk of sex as getting used but would jump into bed asap for the former hot guys/bad boy types to snag them. If you have been screwed over lots of times by jerks then you need to take some responsibility for it. I would not want a girl that thinks of sex as getting used or as some sort of reward for proving myself "prove interest time and again" + "I will not put out". Being circumspect over a guys intentions is smart but now holding back on affection or being more judgemental because new guy can pay for the sins of your past jerk bfs is wrong imo, but if you think this approach will now get the you the 'best' guy, then go with it.

October 26, 2012

Women can disappear even after sex. You never know a person-ever. Just be the nice person but never be a doormat.

Can't say i've had a woman disappear on me after sex unless it was clear it was just sex & I always make sure we are on the same page before sex.

I personally havn't had a woman tell me she wants a relationship just to sex me then *poof*.

Havn't heard of this from any guys I know either.

October 26, 2012

You don't really sound like you would be a fun girl.

Define "fun girl". Lemme guess: Someone who would put out on the first night, and not have any expectations that you will respect her, be interested in her, etc.

Being easy going is NOT counter-productive

There is a difference between being easy going on the one hand, and having no respect for oneself and not expecting others to respect you, on the other hand.

I dont know how many times you have been screwed over

Just once, and that was one too many times. Being careful and trying to avoid getting screwed over again (within reason) is not equivalent to bitterness. It just shows that I have too much self-respect for myself to accept being treated the same way again by a man who cares about nothing more than p*ssy, and thinks of me as nothing more than p*ssy. Not all men are like that -- most men probably are not -- but I need to filter out the bad ones, and that's easier said than done. You can't imagine how artful some men are at this and at mind games. It is usually women who are accused of playing mind games, but I see just as many men, if not more, playing mind games these days.

They went for style of substance guys again and a again while nice romantic guys were boring or lamos. They now talk of sex as getting used but would jump into bed asap for the former hot guys/bad boy types to snag them.

Eh? Way to assume that I am anything like the women you describe. I WANT a romantic guy, and I don't think they are boring. I just haven't met ANY guy who is like that. I think that demonstrates the majority of men's priorities these days. And here I'm not even talking about young early 20s men. I'm talking about men of different ages. In their early 30s, late 30s, early 40s, etc. I have met so many of them, and guess what was common to all of them? Yep, that they were just looking for a ONS or a FWB.

If you have been screwed over lots of times by jerks then you need to take some responsibility for it.

Just once -- but I have met countless men who would've screwed me over if I had believed their lies like I believed my ex's. So the common denominator is: most men these days are douchebags who want to get laid but view the rest of the woman (other than her genitalia) as excess baggage.

I would not want a girl that thinks of sex as getting used or as some sort of reward for proving myself "prove interest time and again" + "I will not put out".

I do not think of sex as getting used. But a lot of men think of women as objects to use. I intend to avoid such men, and if that means I will avoid the majority of men (because the majority of men these days are like that), then so be it.

Being circumspect over a guys intentions is smart but now holding back on affection or being more judgemental because new guy can pay for the sins of your past jerk bfs is wrong imo, but if you think this approach will now get the you the 'best' guy, then go with it.

Who said I do that ? I don't hold back on affection. But there are things that should not be done -- like wearing your heart on your sleeve -- with ANYONE. It just is not smart, and leaves you open to manipulation and blackmail. This is true in life in general, not just in relationships. I am the most loving, caring person ever. I go out of my way to show love and affection to the guy I like/love. But that is a two-way street, not a one-way street. I need to see him do the same, as well. If he does not, I will assume that he is not interested and that I'm being played. That is only a fair assumption.

October 26, 2012

^I always scratch my head when I read posts like that, because my experiences are so different. I for instance am far from being that type of guy "most men" are according to you. Same goes for most of my closest friends. And I don't believe that we are super weird character-wise.

My guess is that women who have the mind-set that most guys are douchbags who are only after sex simply filter out all the guys who are not hot or very successful with women. Of course players or guys who are much better looking than the woman going for them can be douchbags, simply because they can afford it.

Try going for men who suck at getting sex and you will realize how ridiculously generous, grateful and respectful they can be.

October 26, 2012

I actually watched the movie, though I would not have by the the title, though it had JP in it who I like as an actor. It would kill that jewish woman to find out that ring was for another woman, and he only changed his mind at the last minute. You hate the thought of being settled for, yet a number of your friends have confessed to you they settled for the guy they are with. It goes both ways. Its possibly easier for guys to be settled for, because they are expected to do most of the effort so don't have that ability to measure the woman's level of enthusiasm. I have seen some of my fiends miss out on the girl/guy they were crazy over, to then very soon after settle down with the next woman/man that came along (but with less passion). I suspect many people are the near enough is good enough person, and it will work out fine as long as they really don't know the truth. I bet many here reminisce over a past love they really wish it could have worked out differently with.

You are lucky then ES, in that you have an advantage with this experience ^ over lots of other women then. You seem to be worried about being settled for but you know the signs well enough to be able to avoid it as much as possible. It sucks when the ones you wished would really show more unbridled enthusiasm don't, but it will be in your best interests that you don't repeat the past. You seem to have plenty of options and that definitely makes being single not so crappy and that's a great start for getting what you want eventually as long as your expectations are reasonable.

Its very rare for the 2nd scenario. If a girl is down for NSA sex with a guy she does not throw out a bunch of hurdles for him to jump over. He is hot and that's pretty much his ticket to her bedroom.

Knowing that you are being settled for is a blessing and a curse. I have highly developed intuition and can read between the lines so well, that I was never caught by surprise when I was dumped or not asked out again. I always just know.

There are many couples walking around, quite content, having no idea that one or both are being settled for. Having no idea that one quietly sheds a tear for their long lost love, the one they really wish they ended up with. When I get a sense of something like that, I get so unhappy that I simply can't move forward in the relationship, despite how good everything else is. I have to be IT for the guy, in EVERY way. And he has to be the same for me.

Unfortunately, this is so rare that I will most likely end up alone. Alone and being pitied by the couples who have secretly settled for each other, settled for being something that I would never want. They secretly pity me, I secretly pity them. Isn't life wonderful?

October 26, 2012

My guess is that women who have the mind-set that most guys are douchbags who are only after sex simply filter out all the guys who are not hot or very successful with women. Of course players or guys who are much better looking than the woman going for them can be douchbags, simply because they can afford it.

looks have nothing to do with it, imo her issue is that she is most likely attracted to men who are very aggressive initially. You know who I'm talking about, the ones with the huge egos. guess what other personality trait most of these guys have in common!

October 26, 2012

looks have nothing to do with it, imo her issue is that she is most likely attracted to men who are very aggressive initially. You know who I'm talking about, the ones with the huge egos. guess what other personality trait most of these guys have in common!

Ha. Actually, it's neither looks nor aggressiveness that I go for. It's just a mixture of everything. But mostly, once he approaches me (or I approach him), the way he talks, his body language, whether he's respectful towards me, etc. But really, I have learned that regardless of looks, aggressiveness, or seemingly respectful behaviour, men can still be douchebags. I met this guy who was 1) not very hot by any standards; 2) not aggressive, but approached me; 3) more or less respectful (exception being, a few inappropriate jokes); 4) could hold a proper conversation and talk about his and my interests, etc.; 5) interesting and seemed to be a nice guy, the kind of guy that some might call "romantic" -- and guess what? He was looking for sex that evening. When he did not get it, he did not call or text. When I texted 3 days later, he took a day and a half to respond, and even then, was wishy-washy. I didn't respond to his text.

Edited October 26, 2012 by NoMoreJerks

October 26, 2012

Just a bit of a rant.

Basically, in dating, even in very early dating - it is pretty obvious who is interested and sees long term potential in you and who is not. Any hesitation, vague re-scheduling etc.... you may just as well give up then and there (unless you are looking for something casual).

We need to accept nothing less but being the 4am rooftop girl

I agree 100%!

There was one girl this past year I chased after again and again. I never chase, and I was doing whatever I could to get her. Didn't work in my favor, but it goes along with what you're saying: If you really like someone you will put in the effort because your heart wants them.

I met two other women, while I lusted for the girl I wanted, and both of them were blah. I refused to settle for a woman simply because she was a woman.

October 26, 2012

2) not aggressive, but approached me;

In a bar or club perhaps?

October 26, 2012

In a bar or club perhaps?

In a pub. The pub scene where I live, though, is not really a hook-up/ONS type scene typically. It's mostly businesspeople meeting over some drinks / food, or a bunch of friends meeting up in groups. He was with his friends from way back in high school (he's 37), and they all seemed to be decent guys who were not really there for a hook-up, just a few drinks to catch up on stuff, and they all left without approaching any women.

October 26, 2012

In a pub. The pub scene where I live, though, is not really a hook-up/ONS type scene typically. It's mostly businesspeople meeting over some drinks / food, or a bunch of friends meeting up in groups. He was with his friends from way back in high school (he's 37), and they all seemed to be decent guys who were not really there for a hook-up, just a few drinks to catch up on stuff, and they all left without approaching any women.

let me guess, he walk right up and started talking to you without you giving any real signs of interest?

October 26, 2012

There is some truth to this in that many lasting loves started faster rather than slower, but consider some things...

(1) Many many a woman has been in a relationship with a guy who came on like a hurricane, but then who completely changed after becoming exclusive/several months in/after the wedding.

(2) If I recall correctly, in your last two relationships--one lasting over a year, the other only a month, BOTH guys came on really strong to you. Hell the one-month guy had all these red flags but you ignored them because he was acting like your boyfriend by the end of your first date. And then according to you, even HE ended it because according to you, "he wasn't feeling the chemistry".

Thing is though, you're not the only woman on here who had a relationship start really fast and strong due to the guy's ardour and then it burned out.

Yes, I like playing Devil's Advocate. Emotional whirlwind isn't everything when it comes to picking a good partner. Wouldn't you rather a guy start becoming really into you, AFTER he actually knows you a little better?

Just a bit of a rant.

Basically, in dating, even in very early dating - it is pretty obvious who is interested and sees long term potential in you and who is not. Any hesitation, vague re-scheduling etc.... you may just as well give up then and there (unless you are looking for something casual).

Some may say that nobody can be strongly interested until some time has passed but I disagree. If you think back to when you started dating a person that turned into a LTR, you just KNEW within first few dates that there is something special there. You were drawn to spend time with that person. You thought about them a lot, and could barely contain yourself not to text/call them.

Sure, Sally met John and John was lukewarm but eventually developed feelings- all those stories, however rare make me still skeptical. In most cases John wanted to settle down, so he settled for Sally.

If you look at things this way, it's pretty easy to weed out time wasters before heavy emotional investment is made.

Finally, watch the movie Two Lovers, one of the truest love stories ever made. The painful difference where guy is passionately in love with one girl and is prepared to do whatever it takes and eventually settling and committing to another after the first girl rejected him. If you watch the vague way he acted with the girl he eventually settled for, and going to the rooftop at 4am on no sleep just to talk for a few minutes with a girl he was passionately in love with.

We need to accept nothing less but being the 4am rooftop girl

Edited October 26, 2012 by Imajerk17

October 26, 2012

let me guess, he walk right up and started talking to you without you giving any real signs of interest?

Actually, no. He was sitting right next to me, and talking with his buddies. He asked me if I wanted to have a drink with them, and ordered one for me as well. Then we talked for 3 hours, and exchanged numbers near the end. We talked about ourselves, what we liked, what we did for a living (he even asked me to talk about some of the things I teach at university), hobbies, favourite movies, music, etc. He talked about his family, his parents, etc. He showed interest, and it was clear he liked me a lot, and he was not overtly sexual around me. He did try to touch my hand, but that's about it. When I was leaving, he leaned over and hugged me.

Edited October 26, 2012 by NoMoreJerks

October 26, 2012

Is this a death metal guy?

You should give him a big respect.

I know you would've slept with him if he wanted to.

You seem like a decent looking girl.

Any average men won't turn down that kind of opportunity.

He could just sleep with you and see how things turn out and eventually cut the contact.

I believe he is either very moral(?) or has enough female options.

I don't know why it hurts your ego. but I kind of understand since you are a Woman. But still, it's absolutely nothing compared to what guys have to go through.

Yes, I got rejected recently. Let that be recorded in LS history.
But I barely knew the guy so I wasn't really invested. Just a bit of a blow to the ego.

And it's not really why I started this thread.

October 26, 2012

I think when i was younger i was more willing to jump through hoops. As I get older I find that I exercise more caution because if I am too aggressive, there is an exponential about of embarrassment/failure feeling if the woman acts cautious in return.

When I was younger I would "put it out there" a lot more readily. What I found with a good deal of women would sometimes be an awkward reaction...too much too soon... other times a passive reaction..."Gee, that was nice"... and sometimes positive feedback..."I can't believe you did that!"... I didn't mind jumping through some hoops but without acknowledgement that it was appreciated just as much as I put into it, I realized it could be a bad play.

I think the fact of the matter is if someone wants to be with you, when you invite them to be with you they happily agree or make accomodations to see you. It's easy and you ask them to do something they say, "I'll find a way to be there", they ask you to do something and you say, "I was just hanging at home but I'll be there in 15 minutes".

I think like others have said earlier, expecting someone to jump through hoops to prove themselves is like playing russian roulette. If the perfect guy was really interested he MIGHT be willing to play the romantic movie role, then again he might take it as you just really dicking him around and playing him for a fool.

I just look at it like if after about a month or two if the relationship is like pulling teeth to figure out interest, it's not worth it no matter how great it might seem when we are together.

October 27, 2012

looks have nothing to do with it, imo her issue is that she is most likely attracted to men who are very aggressive initially. You know who I'm talking about, the ones with the huge egos. guess what other personality trait most of these guys have in common!

D-bag? LOL!

I know the type. Their buying the chick a few drinks & got their hand on her ass in the bar a few hrs later.

I ran into a woman I worked with who apparently likes these types of guys because she just met the dude & he had his hand on her ass telling her how firm it was. WTF?!?! I laughed my fricken ass off at this.

she tried flirting with me at work but, um nah.

I don't see that ending well because i'm not like that.

I can only fake d-bag level 1 or 2 at best & not for long.

Oh and even though those guys are aggressive, their hella-insecure & clingy because every time "their" woman would talk to me they would put their arm around her as if to tell me she's claimed.

Well, SHE started talking to me. Not me to her. LOL!

October 27, 2012

There is a vast middle ground between jumping through hoops and settling for someone. That's where I prefer to be. If I am in a REAL relationship with a guy, one that has an actual foundation based on something other than lust and "butterflies" and he goes to a great romantic length to do something for me, I am thrilled. If a guy I have known for a month is doing that? Not romantic, to me...more like "too much too soon". It's disingenuous, it's based on nothing real. I don't need that kind of validation or "proof"-ever really, but especially not early on.

I've never felt like the guys I have dated were settling for me...

October 27, 2012

let me guess, he walk right up and started talking to you without you giving any real signs of interest?

Well, do you blame a guy for going after what he wants, if he hypothetically doesn't often get signs?

October 27, 2012

D-bag? LOL!
I know the type. Their buying the chick a few drinks & got their hand on her ass in the bar a few hrs later.

I ran into a woman I worked with who apparently likes these types of guys because she just met the dude & he had his hand on her ass telling her how firm it was. WTF?!?! I laughed my fricken ass off at this.

she tried flirting with me at work but, um nah.
I don't see that ending well because i'm not like that.
I can only fake d-bag level 1 or 2 at best & not for long.

Oh and even though those guys are aggressive, their hella-insecure & clingy because every time "their" woman would talk to me they would put their arm around her as if to tell me she's claimed.

Well, SHE started talking to me. Not me to her. LOL!

I would slap a guy who touched my ass or any of my body parts for that matter.... perhaps with the exception of hand, and even then, depending on the context and the way we've been interacting.

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When a guy is seriously interested, he will jump through flaming hoops for you

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