When a guy is seriously interested, he will jump through flaming hoops for you

[TheBigQuestion]

Sure. But I do not appreciate being treated as one, and fooled into such an arrangement without my knowledge (because he tried keeping a semblance of a relationship and "romance"). He treated me as a sex object even knowing that I wanted more than that -- that I wanted a relationship. Heck, he even called me his gf, to keep the arrangement going. And then, when I started showing that I expected him to call me (which he NEVER DID - except at the very start), he said that he didn't want to think about me all the time, that he doesn't love me, that we're just friends and are doing a FWB. Yeah, I went from being his gf to being his ****-buddy in a matter of minutes.

 

It just sounded like you had disdain for that type of arrangement in general, not just when you're fooled into it.

[NoMoreJerks]

It just sounded like you had disdain for that type of arrangement in general, not just when you're fooled into it.

I do -- it is not my cup of tea. But not so much when both parties jump willingly into such an arrangement. All the more power to both of them. But in a lot of cases, men think they can get away with running a FWB arrangement and put on the airs of being in a relationship. They play the relationship/courting game at first, and then turn into a completely different person once they "catch" her in their net. By then, the woman is too attached to the guy emotionally to just walk away -- and if she does, he will go after her once again, apologize, try to fix things, act like he did at the start of the "relationship", for a week or two, and then go back to the same old. This is the "hot"/"cold" treatment used by a lot of men who are not interested in commitment and yet string along a woman they have met, because they want the sex with her, but none of the responsibilities /expectations that accompany being in a relationship.

[fortyninethousand322]

I do -- it is not my cup of tea. But not so much when both parties jump willingly into such an arrangement. All the more power to both of them. But in a lot of cases, men think they can get away with running a FWB arrangement and put on the airs of being in a relationship. They play the relationship/courting game at first, and then turn into a completely different person once they "catch" her in their net. By then, the woman is too attached to the guy emotionally to just walk away -- and if she does, he will go after her once again, apologize, try to fix things, act like he did at the start of the "relationship", for a week or two, and then go back to the same old. This is the "hot"/"cold" treatment used by a lot of men who are not interested in commitment and yet string along a woman they have met, because they want the sex with her, but none of the responsibilities /expectations that accompany being in a relationship.

 

Women do the same things. I'd argue just as often as men do.

 

Very few women these days (particularly under say 30 I guess?) want relationships. Most want a FWB or one night stand type of deal.

[NoMoreJerks]

Women do the same things. I'd argue just as often as men do.

 

Very few women these days (particularly under say 30 I guess?) want relationships. Most want a FWB or one night stand type of deal.

I know a few women who do FWB and none of them put on a show, or call the guy their bf. When women want a FWB, they will not make a secret of it. Because most guys will be interested in a FWB if they are not in the process of dating someone else. But not all women are interested in FWB, so men who want that from a particular women, do try to fool her into thinking they're having a relationship with her.

[fortyninethousand322]

I know a few women who do FWB and none of them put on a show, or call the guy their bf. When women want a FWB, they will not make a secret of it. Because most guys will be interested in a FWB if they are not in the process of dating someone else. But not all women are interested in FWB, so men who want that from a particular women, do try to fool her into thinking they're having a relationship with her.

 

If you say so. From what I've seen it's 13 one way a baker's dozen the other when it comes to men vs women "tricking" people in FWB type situations.

[verhrzn]

If a woman could see what a man that is really into a woman acts like versus the same guy who is lukewarm throughout the relationship as you pine for his crumbs of reciprocating affections...their jaws would hit the floor as well as be heartbroken at the same time to see the same man that they love acting and feeling so much differently and showing it with a woman in a completely different way when they are truly head over heels for someone.

 

The thing is that guy more than likely can't get the girl that he really wants to be with and she doesn't have the self-respect to find the romance or let's not be unrealistic, relationship that she's really looking for.

 

But if you ask the world it's not even about romance..what is that! It's about finding that person who meets the most qualities out of a short shopping list with just about any significant level of emotion to go with it like it's a side dish and then developing feelings based on that. Because after all, that's how it's supposed to work right? picking and choosing who you love to the best of your ability?

 

I swear if people actually had the balls and dignity to wait for something worthwhile instead of taking the easiest or most convenient way out instead of being alone or feeling sorry for themselves because they might not be able to find anything better then I'm sure the planet would explode an instant.

 

It today's world most people are as follows;

 

Women settle for less, wishing there was more...

 

Men settle for less, fantasizing about someone else...

 

And people wonder why I can be so bitter look at 99 percent of the posts on LS people, it's mostly BS! So wouldn't you treat as more of a "game" than "true love"?

 

Answer me that and I give you 3 cookies (chocolate chip)! and you don't even have to explain the "romance" lacking from any particular post that's supposed to be about love in general.

 

Romance........HA!

 

Okay this I don't totally get. So you're saying that people should not settle, and should wait out something amazing...

 

BUT then there are also countless posts about how women have way too many requirements for a relationship and how they're spoiled and how they won't give guys a chance.

 

AND I myself am constantly told that I should accept guys oogling other women WHILE also refusing to settle for anything less than absolutely monogamy and love.

 

Lots and lots of mixed messages here...

[TheBigQuestion]

I do -- it is not my cup of tea. But not so much when both parties jump willingly into such an arrangement. All the more power to both of them. But in a lot of cases, men think they can get away with running a FWB arrangement and put on the airs of being in a relationship. They play the relationship/courting game at first, and then turn into a completely different person once they "catch" her in their net. By then, the woman is too attached to the guy emotionally to just walk away -- and if she does, he will go after her once again, apologize, try to fix things, act like he did at the start of the "relationship", for a week or two, and then go back to the same old. This is the "hot"/"cold" treatment used by a lot of men who are not interested in commitment and yet string along a woman they have met, because they want the sex with her, but none of the responsibilities /expectations that accompany being in a relationship.

 

I've witnessed what you're talking about. In college I lived with a curly-headed fella who had this exact type of arrangement/dynamic with a girl for almost two years. He despised the idea of traditional relationships and probably had THE lowest physical standards of any guy I ever met. I think he actually did really like this girl at times, but his unwavering commitment to being uncommitted led to a lot of ambiguity and drama. It was amusing to watch from a distance because this girl was a trainwreck herself (hard to feel sympathy for someone who keeps coming back with different expectations even when the guy says "WE AREN'T DATING"). Regardless, he's not the first of my buddies who I'd recommend as dating material.

[TheBigQuestion]

If you say so. From what I've seen it's 13 one way a baker's dozen the other when it comes to men vs women "tricking" people in FWB type situations.

 

Women pull the same kind of nonsense probably just as frequently, although not in the context of explicitly wanting a FWB but acting as if she wanted a relationship. I've seen it (and experienced it) as the woman wanting a relationship, changing her mind at some point, but not really knowing how to deal with the change except by still being in contact with the guy, maybe still having sex, while gradually fading away.

[Lonely Ronin]

 

Some men expect it though. They expect games and hoops. It's very annoying and incredibly boring.

 

Sadly i see shades of this in some of the posts in this thread. The guy needs to do this, this and this, or i'll delete him. It's all B.S. as far as I'm concerned.

[NoMoreJerks]

Women pull the same kind of nonsense probably just as frequently, although not in the context of explicitly wanting a FWB but acting as if she wanted a relationship. I've seen it (and experienced it) as the woman wanting a relationship, changing her mind at some point, but not really knowing how to deal with the change except by still being in contact with the guy, maybe still having sex, while gradually fading away.

Well, that's equally nasty, but, I wouldn't put it in the same category as outrightly fooling someone. It's one thing to go into a "relationship" with the intention , from the outset, of fooling her just to get her to have regular sex with you, it's another thing to go into a relationship, then lose feelings, and not have the proverbial balls to say so to the guy/girl.

[colombiana28]

Women pull the same kind of nonsense probably just as frequently, although not in the context of explicitly wanting a FWB but acting as if she wanted a relationship. I've seen it (and experienced it) as the woman wanting a relationship, changing her mind at some point, but not really knowing how to deal with the change except by still being in contact with the guy, maybe still having sex, while gradually fading away.

 

Hmm. so, I broke up with my BF of 2 years a few months ago, cause I was never truly in love with him and didn't want to take the relationship further and make the breakup even more messy. After we broke up, he texted me a couple times, which I ignored, and then sent a long email about how, after everything I put him through toward the end of our R, he was still in love with me and wanted another chance. He said at the end of the email "If you don't reply to this, I'll take it as closure." I didn't reply. 3-4 months passed, then my birthday came and he sent me a Happy Birthday email. I thought long and hard about whether or not to respond, but did, saying "Thanks xx. I hope everything is going well for you." Well...then that started a back and forth (he's so clever with words) and after a couple weeks of emailing we decided to meet up as friends. Welllll, alcohol got involved, and we ended up sleeping together. Now we're kind of hittin' it on the reg. He knows I don't want a relationship and we're not exclusive FWBs (even though I've broken off my other FWB arrangements unbeknownst to him--he's just way hotter and way better in bed than anyone else I know. And I 100% know he's not having sex with anyone else, he's always been ridiculously transparent). It's just familiar and nice, you know? But part of me has a dreadful feeling that he's hoping to turn it back into a R. But right now he seems cool with the arrangement? And I mean, he's getting hot sex, that's what every guy wants, right? Grr. I guess I've just been trying to convince myself that the situation is cool.

[TheBigQuestion]

Well, that's equally nasty, but, I wouldn't put it in the same category as outrightly fooling someone. It's one thing to go into a "relationship" with the intention , from the outset, of fooling her just to get her to have regular sex with you, it's another thing to go into a relationship, then lose feelings, and not have the proverbial balls to say so to the guy/girl.

 

The intention is different, sure. However, the subjective effect on the other person really isn't any different.

 

Also, refresh my memory. Did this guy actually say that it was his intention from the start to just have you as an FWB and to fool you into it by acting like he wanted a relationship, or is it that he was genuine at one point and then later on changed his mind?

[Lonely Ronin]

And I mean, he's getting hot sex, that's what every guy wants, right?

 

actually it's not, and you will find that the older a man gets, the less important that becomes.

[TheBigQuestion]

Maybe SOME women. I was absolutely clear on what I wanted. I knew, having known this guy for many years, that we would never make a good couple. But he was horny, I was horny, and we both said we weren't interested in a R, so it was on. HE is the one who changed the game, then went all stalkerish on me. I had to threaten with the cops.

 

Of course it's "some" women. Do I seriously have to qualify every post so that no one assumes I'm talking about every last woman on Earth?

 

It's quite common for women to be wishy-washy as to what they look for out of a guy but to string him along and reap the benefits of his company anyway. I'm willing to be the majority of men here have had this happen to them at least once.

[carhill]

I'm willing to be the majority of men here have had this happen to them at least once.

 

Having barreled through a lot of flaming hoops in life, yep, it's happened a lot, not merely once or twice. Common denominator, look at thyself in the mirror.

[colombiana28]

Of course it's "some" women. Do I seriously have to qualify every post so that no one assumes I'm talking about every last woman on Earth?

 

It's quite common for women to be wishy-washy as to what they look for out of a guy but to string him along and reap the benefits of his company anyway. I'm willing to be the majority of men here have had this happen to them at least once.

 

But every time I see a guy complaining about a woman "stringing him along" it's always about being her emotional tampon and never getting sex. If you're having sex and both enjoying it for what it is, no strings attached, it seems like an ideal arrangement. I guess I'm underestimating a man's ability to become emotionally attached with sex only.

 

Like, "God I jumped through flaming hoops for this girl and she friend zoned me" sounds a lot suckier for him than "God I jumped through flaming hoops for this girl and she gave me hot, NSA sex whenever I wanted it."

[Lonely Ronin]

It's quite common for women to be wishy-washy as to what they look for out of a guy but to string him along and reap the benefits of his company anyway. I'm willing to be the majority of men here have had this happen to them at least once.

 

I'm kind of dealing with this right now. The woman I'm seeing came right out and said she was interested in me, because I asked her. I had reached a point where i was tired of having to jump through hoops to see her. She has a ton of friends (like half the city and I'm not exaggerating) and a busy work schedule, so seeing her is like scheduling brain surgery. So one night when we where out I point blank said I want to know one way or the other.

 

she was fine for a while, but her actions are again not matching her words. so last night we talked about going out again, and she said she needed to check her calendar and would let me know. so that's it I'm not calling or texting her until she lets me know.

 

I'm sure she will be another one that is either shattered or pissed off, that I "faded away".

[xxoo]

I haven't gone a single day without hearing from my BF in some capacity since our first date. He was never overbearing or a doormat, but he kept in contact daily and I reciprocated by answering his texts and calls in a timely fashion. It was nice...I was never left hanging, wondering if he was still interested. I knew.

 

And he was never left hanging, wondering if you were interested. He knew.

 

That's the way it should be, at least after a few dates.

[Jamesblame]

Best woman I ever dated was totally upfront about what she wanted. I love that direct level of communication. I think most people do. We're not together anymore, but I definitely was bettered through the experience.

 

Some people want ltr, others fwb. It's important for your self respect, male or female, to just only go after what you want. And you can't change someone else, just keep taking care of yourself and pursuing what you want. No ill will toward anyone who doesn't mesh with you.

 

Women should especially be careful about compromising who they are to snag the right guy. 1.) He's not the right guy because you have to change yourself. 2.) He's going to get pissed at you for reverting to your own needs down the line because you lied to him.

 

Wait...that last paragraph should apply to everyone too.

[Els]

I honestly think that, for both sexes, if you've made your interest clear to the other person and yet their actions leave you unsure whether or not they're interested, it's safe to assume that they're not as interested as you would like them to be.

 

As for the 'nice guy' protests, nobody is saying that 'jumping through hoops' will magically make an uninterested girl fall in love with you. Of course not! It will tip the balance for a girl who is interested but is unsure about YOUR interest, however. And as ES says, I think it comes naturally. When you are very much into someone you will WANT to make it known to them. If doing so feels like a burden to you, you aren't really into them. Really.

[NoMoreJerks]

The intention is different, sure. However, the subjective effect on the other person really isn't any different.

 

Also, refresh my memory. Did this guy actually say that it was his intention from the start to just have you as an FWB and to fool you into it by acting like he wanted a relationship, or is it that he was genuine at one point and then later on changed his mind?

Yup -- he said that he had always wanted a FWB, from the very start. He didn't admit to manipulating me intentionally (obviously, no one would), but his admission that he wanted FWB from the start, and the fact that he pretended to have romantic interest in me and kept calling me his gf and at the start acting like any bf would, showed that he intentionally tricked me. He said he never loved me, from the very start. He just thought of me as a really good friend.

[NoMoreJerks]

It's quite common for women to be wishy-washy as to what they look for out of a guy but to string him along and reap the benefits of his company anyway. I'm willing to be the majority of men here have had this happen to them at least once.

Not really. Mostly I see men doing this sort of thing, not women. The women I know -- and I know tons of women , both as friends and acquaintances -- know what they want and if the guy is not the right person for them, they don't string him along. I am the same. I used to talk with a guy in the army, who was genuinely interested in me, and was by all means a nice guy. We talked for months, and at some point, I just realized we weren't a good match, and I told him right away. It hurt him like hell, because he had developed feelings for me, but I had to do it as soon as I realized it, because I couldn't forgive myself for stringing him along and playing with his feelings. I had done enough damage. I also cut off contact with him entirely, because I knew that if I kept in touch with him as a friend, it would still give him hope that it might work out...

[dasein]

IMO "jumping through hoops" reeks of unrealistic expectations and is not something either gender should expect from the other. The better relationships are founded on mutual attraction where neither party has unrealistic expectations about being "done for" or "won" and both parties are giving to each other without too many tests going either way.

 

There are way too many hoop jumpers and unrealistic expectations out and about today, and if people didn't "jump" in any way into relationships, force them instead of letting them grow and being ready to walk when things aren't right, we'd be better off.

 

People willing to jump through hoops when things aren't progressing normally are suffering from low options. Create more options and there is no need for hoop jumping.

[Lonely Ronin]

We talked for months, and at some point, I just realized we weren't a good match, and I told him right away. It hurt him like hell, because he had developed feelings for me, but I had to do it as soon as I realized it, because I couldn't forgive myself for stringing him along and playing with his feelings. I had done enough damage. I also cut off contact with him entirely, because I knew that if I kept in touch with him as a friend, it would still give him hope that it might work out...

 

I'm my experience, a lot of women are afraid to hurt a guys feeling, so they will go along with it until either he breaks it off, or she can't stand it anymore. I do not interact with any of my ex mid to long-term girlfriends for this reason.

[Jamesblame]

IMO "jumping through hoops" reeks of unrealistic expectations and is not something either gender should expect from the other. The better relationships are founded on mutual attraction where neither party has unrealistic expectations about being "done for" or "won" and both parties are giving to each other without too many tests going either way.

 

There are way too many hoop jumpers and unrealistic expectations out and about today, and if people didn't "jump" in any way into relationships, force them instead of letting them grow and being ready to walk when things aren't right, we'd be better off.

 

People willing to jump through hoops when things aren't progressing normally are suffering from low options. Create more options and there is no need for hoop jumping.

 

 

Quiet with your logic! It's not real love unless you devote all your time and money and hope into the courtship of someone who in reality is a stranger.

 

Jeez