xxoo Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I agree, but not every person will develop a smoldering attraction for another on the first date and then eagerly jump through hoops thereafter. And similarly, not every person will take said eagerness in the same way. Some women, like the OP, will find it flattering. Others will find it annoying or consider it a sign of weakness. Attraction and affection that builds gradually is not inferior to attraction and affection that is sparked at day one. Similarly, a guy who isn't willing to drop everything in the blink of an eye for someone he has probably only spent a few hours with isn't necessarily indicating that he is low-interest; rather, he's someone who understands how to prioritize his life. I hadn't assumed date one, but rather after a reasonable time of knowing each other. The chemistry should be apparent within a few dates. Compatibility is important, and this kind of passion may not be necessary for everyone. But it is important to the op (and to me ). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NoMoreJerks Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I understand that a lot of men (and women) will not be clear about what their intentions are for a relationship, and that's unfortunate. However, by taking the hard-line approach you've taken, you could easily be self-sabotaging. A lot of men, perfectly good men, absolutely want "easy-going" women as their girlfriends. Very few men want to date stuck-up women with 5-page long lists of expectations of how he is to interact with her in the first few months. I've been pretty good boyfriend material for the past two years (or so I've been told ), and if my girlfriend had told me that she had the expectation of me paying for most/all of our dates and activities, even before we had achieved any official committed status, I would've ducked out of that relationship not because I didn't like her, but because I find that attitude to be absolutely reprehensible. Well, I AM easy-going, but not in the way I used to be -- in terms of insisting to pay for my dinner. With my ex, he offered to pay the first time, but I feel really uncomfortable when anyone pays for my share, so I didn't let him. That sort of thing. I am not stuck-up at all, and don't have lists that I put checkmarks next to. But at the same time, I will not be as naive as I used to be, and will have more expectations of a man than I used to have. I used to be all about "giving" and not at all about "taking" anything. Now I want more balance. A relationship is supposed to be a give-and-take. If he's willing to take, but not give, he's not the right person for me. Just like my ex wasn't. Expectations are not necessarily to be verbalized. If he does not pick up the bill at the restaurant, I will offer to go dutch. In the past? Because I hated splitting, when my ex didn't pick up the bill (which he often would do), I offered to pay for the both of us. It was stupid of me. I did it, though, because I HATE haggling over money, and that's what splitting does. I hate talking about money on a date. It really is awkward. That's why one or the other person should pay for the whole thing. My treat or yours. In the case of my ex, he mostly left that to me. He didn't even offer to go dutch , if that was his intention to begin with.... Anyway, if a man does not pay for my dinner, I won't tell him that was my expectation. I will probably go out with him again,but I will observe his behaviour more carefully so as to be able to get a clear sense of what his intentions are. These "expectations" of mine are supposed to serve as alert mechanisms at every stage in the dating process. I won't necessarily walk away after the first time that it happens, but I will take him and the prospects of the dating developing into a relationship, with a grain of salt. If I'm pleasantly surprised in the end, so be it, but I will put my guard up and not invest emotionally in him. That said: I would expect him to pay for my dinner in the first few months, but it doesn't mean I would never offer to treat him to dinner. I would do that a few times. Edited October 25, 2012 by NoMoreJerks Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Jumping through flaming hoops = nice guy sh*t? Sometimes "jumping through hoops" goes very unappreciated. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SmileFace Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Jumping through flaming hoops = nice guy sh*t? Sometimes "jumping through hoops" goes very unappreciated. Thank you this is all I get from this post. It is with out saying that two people who are interested will jump thru hoops for each other. However I don't want a guy who will jump thru hoops for me when I am doing the same. Relationships and love should be welcomed and easy. Not one sided. A guy going all out for me isn't going to make me interested him. A guy being him self will make me interested. Link to post Share on other sites
TheBigQuestion Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Well, I AM easy-going, but not in the way I used to be -- in terms of insisting to pay for my dinner. With my ex, he offered to pay the first time, but I feel really uncomfortable when anyone pays for my share, so I didn't let him. That sort of thing. I am not stuck-up at all, and don't have lists that I put checkmarks next to. But at the same time, I will not be as naive as I used to be, and will have more expectations of a man than I used to have. I used to be all about "giving" and not at all about "taking" anything. Now I want more balance. A relationship is supposed to be a give-and-take. If he's willing to take, but not give, he's not the right person for me. Just like my ex wasn't. Expectations are not necessarily to be verbalized. If he does not pick up the bill at the restaurant, I will offer to go dutch. In the past? Because I hated splitting, when my ex didn't pick up the bill (which he often would do), I offered to pay for the both of us. It was stupid of me. I did it, though, because I HATE haggling over money, and that's what splitting does. I hate talking about money on a date. It really is awkward. That's why one or the other person should pay for the whole thing. My treat or yours. In the case of my ex, he mostly left that to me. He didn't even offer to go dutch , if that was his intention to begin with.... Anyway, if a man does not pay for my dinner, I won't tell him that was my expectation. I will probably go out with him again,but I will observe his behaviour more carefully so as to be able to get a clear sense of what his intentions are. These "expectations" of mine are supposed to serve as alert mechanisms at every stage in the dating process. I won't necessarily walk away after the first time that it happens, but I will take him and the prospects of the dating developing into a relationship, with a grain of salt. If I'm pleasantly surprised in the end, so be it, but I will put my guard up and not invest emotionally in him. That said: I would expect him to pay for my dinner in the first few months, but it doesn't mean I would never offer to treat him to dinner. I would do that a few times. Sounds reasonable to me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Jumping through flaming hoops = nice guy sh*t? Sometimes "jumping through hoops" goes very unappreciated. My opinion is that the women who are 'very unappreciative', are the ones who aren't interested in you anyway (or are just bitches in general). 4 Link to post Share on other sites
TheBigQuestion Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I hadn't assumed date one, but rather after a reasonable time of knowing each other. The chemistry should be apparent within a few dates. Compatibility is important, and this kind of passion may not be necessary for everyone. But it is important to the op (and to me ). Sure, I didn't deny that it was important to the OP or you. I just take issue with the fact that she's prescribing the approach she prefers as the one that other people should comply with if they want the best results. I think that's misguided because my own experiences with women have taught me that what she seems to prefer would be absolutely anathema to sustaining attraction in some women, but would work for others. I could be wrong, but it really sounds like she's trying to pass off her preference as fact. Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I agree with this. Most guys will jump through hoops, etc. if they are truly interested. The guys that won't are either a) not interested or b) not assertive/confident/aggressive enough to act on their feelings or interest. The "type b's" are not the kind of guy most women would be interested in any so you're better off assuming that "a" is true. Link to post Share on other sites
xdahliax Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Methinks "jumping through hoops" was just bad verbiage. But going out of your way-with in reason, and needfully, for the one you love... is just that, love, and is reciprocated. You're cute when you're sentimental. Link to post Share on other sites
Kofybean Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 "When a guy is seriously interested, he will jump through flaming hoops for you" If a woman is seriously interested, she will... do what? Jump through flaming hoops too? Link to post Share on other sites
NoMoreJerks Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 "When a guy is seriously interested, he will jump through flaming hoops for you" If a woman is seriously interested, she will... do what? Jump through flaming hoops too? Sure. But it has to be reciprocated. Otherwise, the guy is sitting back, being lazy (as a lot of guys often are/do), and just enjoying the woman make a fool of herself and almost beg for his attention/company. Not gonna happen. Men who are lazy can go pay a prostitute for sex, because sex is all they seem to want, and I am not about to give it to them. Link to post Share on other sites
Kofybean Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Sure. But it has to be reciprocated. Otherwise, the guy is sitting back, being lazy (as a lot of guys often are/do), and just enjoying the woman make a fool of herself and almost beg for his attention/company. Not gonna happen. Men who are lazy can go pay a prostitute for sex, because sex is all they seem to want, and I am not about to give it to them. So if you aren't going to go all out then why should he? You are saying you won't jump through hoops to protect yourself from men who are using you, therefore the question isn't answered. If men are to jump through hoops (flaming) throwing caution to the wind to prove interest, what do women do to prove interest? Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 "If men are to jump through hoops (flaming) throwing caution to the wind to prove interest, what do women do to prove interest?" Let them.... On a more romantic note, OP, your '4am rooftop girl' shall cause me to insert 'The Goodbye Girl' into my dvd player to enjoy some vintage rooftop romance in the style of Humphrey Bogart. 'Here's lookin' at you, kid' Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
NoMoreJerks Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 So if you aren't going to go all out then why should he? You are saying you won't jump through hoops to protect yourself from men who are using you, therefore the question isn't answered. If men are to jump through hoops (flaming) throwing caution to the wind to prove interest, what do women do to prove interest? I wouldn't call it "jumping through hoops". I think that's a misleading/inaccurate term. I would describe it more as, making an effort, showing interest, going out of his way sometimes to show that he likes you. The same goes for a woman. Everything in moderation, of course. I don't like a guy going "all out" on me, and I sure as hell won't do that to a guy either. That is not what I look for in a guy. I don't want him to chase me to the end of the world, bring me flowers every day, call me every hour of every day, etc. I DO expect him to call/text every day, or pick up the phone / answer my texts when I call / text him. Little things like that, that show that he's thinking about you, cares about you, etc. He doesn't have to think about me ALL day long, but who wouldn't think about a girl/guy they like, on a daily basis? My ex told me he doesn't want to think about me all the time. By all the time, he meant, every day. He wanted to talk to me no more than once a week, if that, because he didn't want to think about me for the rest of the week. His words, not mine. That's just inappropriate behaviour and does not show interest in me, or in a relationship. I guess the bottom line is, if you want the relationship to continue, treat your lady/man with utmost respect and give them the attention they deserve as the person you might want to spend the rest of your life (hypothetically) with. Link to post Share on other sites
Kofybean Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 ...Let them... ... burn themselves? Link to post Share on other sites
Kofybean Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I wouldn't call it "jumping through hoops". I think that's a misleading/inaccurate term... Everything in moderation, of course. I don't like a guy going "all out" on me,..I DO expect him to call/text every day, or pick up the phone / answer my texts when I call / text him. Little things like that.... You are changing the dynamic of the o.p then if you are saying "moderation" which is a far cry from accepting nothing less than being a 4am rooftop girl. Link to post Share on other sites
CptObvious Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 lol, the guys you want are creepy idiots that don't understand what a strikeout means. Link to post Share on other sites
NoMoreJerks Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You are changing the dynamic of the o.p then if you are saying "moderation" which is a far cry from accepting nothing less than being a 4am rooftop girl. And your point is??!?!? I am not the OP. I am expressing my opinion on the subject. Are you saying I have to pick between "a guy going all out" or "being a lazy douchebag who sits back and expects the woman to give him free sex"? Link to post Share on other sites
Kofybean Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Are you saying .. I think what I am saying is pretty easy for the average speaker of the english language to grasp, unless I made some typos, I clearly asked if men are to jump through flaming hoops to show interest, what do women who are clearly interested do? "If" is a conditional... therefore IF you do not feel as the o.p, then response is not a requisite. Link to post Share on other sites
xdahliax Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think what I am saying is pretty easy for the average speaker of the english language to grasp, unless I made some typos, I clearly asked if men are to jump through flaming hoops to show interest, what do women who are clearly interested do? "If" is a conditional... therefore IF you do not feel as the o.p, then response is not a requisite. Women can do the same. Some people on here make it sound like jumping through hoops demands a lot of effort. It's not a burden to "jump through hoops" when you are in love, it's second nature. You naturally want to be there for the person, to protect them from harm, to make them happy, to be around them... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Good post. And I think a man WANTS to be with a woman who inspires him to... well, not jump through hoops - but bring his BEST. He wants to be with a woman who fires him up, not someone who makes do with mediocre. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Methinks "jumping through hoops" was just bad verbiage. But going out of your way-with in reason, and needfully, for the one you love... is just that, love, and is reciprocated. Yeah, I agree with this. I think guys jump the gun with all that hoop jumping personally. There is showing your interest and making an effort in the beginning, and then there is jumping through hoops for woman who won't feel the same. Link to post Share on other sites
colombiana28 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Huge difference between your typical "nice guy who goes way beyond to the point of being unattractive" and a guy who is so into a girl that he will make his interest known definitively. I've dated guys who were really into me and unavailable guys. The unavailable ones were flaky, never dependable, and had a "take it or leave it" attitude. The guys who are into you will make it a point to contact you every day, whether it be a random funny text, a facebook comment, or a "good night" before bed. Doesn't have to be "jumping through flaming hoops." Just reminding you that you are on his mind. NoMoreJerks, the story about splitting the checks describes some of my past relationships verbatim. I still struggle with wanting to WOW a guy with my thoughtfulness/selflessness (even guys I'm not THAT into) when it's not reciprocated evenly. I pick up the bill, I buy cute thoughtful gifts here and there. It sucks because I have a hard time saying no, and rarely date guys who would do the same for me, and it builds up resentment within me. They get used to being treated sooo well and put in even less effort. Eventually I dump the guy and most of the time he never finds out why. I'm hyper-non-confrontational and it works against me at times. But gals like us need to hold out for guys that will put in just as much effort as us--i'm pretty sure if I ever found a guy (I was attracted to) who WANTED to do thoughtful things for me, pay for dinner once in awhile, offer a backrub completely unsolicited once in awhile (something I always offer to do for my man), I will want to snatch him up asap. Edited October 25, 2012 by colombiana28 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If the girl shows interest and meets the guy halfway in certain situations, then yes. If we're talking about guys who go out of their way and make it obvious they're interested, and don't get reciprocated, no. Those guys lose, have always lost, and will continue to lose. Both parties need to make sacrifices if they want to successfully develop a fruitful relationship where both of them are in love. You can't have an uneven distribution of give and take where one continues to give and the other takes. Link to post Share on other sites
ScreamingTrees Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 And your point is??!?!? I am not the OP. I am expressing my opinion on the subject. Are you saying I have to pick between "a guy going all out" or "being a lazy douchebag who sits back and expects the woman to give him free sex"? You "have" sex, you don't give it. You're also engaging in it, the same way one person might engage in a game of ping pong with another person. It takes two. You don't enjoy it? I guess I can understand if you don't really know the person as well as you could because you haven't grown close enough or something.. Do you just lie there like a dead fish and simply "let" the guy do his thing.. ? Sounds ewwie. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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