How 2 Comprehend Legal Complexities After Divorce When Disabled

October 21, 2012

I really need some answers. The story may be irrelevant at the moment. My main concern is this:

The divorce case is over. The judge has our pleedings for opposing council to pay my legal fees, and cost for medical witness, and business evaluator, which are insane. The divorce was unnessarily protracted. We made twelve offers over the last 4 years - and all offers were more than exceeded by the judge's decision. there were two comtempts, and great difficulty in obtaining business and tax records, and untilmately, an order to compel records. Three evaluations of the business, during times we triedto negotiate.

I received enough alimoney to cover my current home (with taxes and insurance), with the leanest of utilities for the next ten years. This home is more than underwater, and has a 25 year mortagage.

I received the rental home. (I recently restored this home on credit - as the home was to be condemned if something wasn't done). Home is rented, paying for itself. The home is severely underwater as well.

I received $75,000 on the business - less than 25% (after assuming a mortgage on one of the homes which represents a $50G donwn payment on business).

I received an Insurance payout check for $31,000 for an "pre-marital" art collection lost in a flood.

My credit debt of $45,000 will remain mine.

My small retirement plan will remain mine.

My private disability insurance payments and Social Security payments will remail mine.

HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM: When my attorney explained the judge's order to me, she told me that I would be receiveing the business settelment in payments up front, in addition to the alimony payments. She then asked me if I would sign over the Insurance check to her firm to cover my husband's payments of "my" legal fees as a collateral - because her firm was "mad at her." I felt she had supported all this time, with only the retainer, - and since I had the extra money coming in from the business settlement, (as well as my disability income), I could pay my credit card debt off very quickly - even if she held the insurance check (it would be the same as it being in the bank, in my mind) So I enthusatically agreed, on that phone call.

So, I have been sitting around all month, waiting for the other check to arrive on the business. And it didn't arrive, and I was getting short on money - because I am now paying all the mortgages, utilitilites, onto of my credit card payments, normal expenses such as medication, doctors, food, etc.

I decided I better have a look at the final order more carefully. And what did I find. Oh dear.

HERE ARE THE REAL FACTS. The $75,000 business settlement will be paid AFTER the alimony is satisfied - AFTER ten years (no interest). Furthmore, the business settlement will be paid over a two year period, AFTER the ten years.

If he sells the business, then, I will receive the payments, without interest, over a two year period without interest.

I CAN DEAL WITH IT

I'm ok with this, now that I understand. But my attorney mislead me. When I brought it to her attention, she gas-lighted me. She said, "Yas, don't you remember , you were going to sell all your collections to pay off your credit card debt, and rent a room in your house?"

I remember part of that convo - and she told me that if I attempted to bring in income by renting or getting a roommate - the opposing council would try to reduce my alimomy payment. But at no time did I ever express that I would sell the precious things in my home. There is NO WAY.

Anyone that knows me, absolutlly knows that the only thing that really keeps me functioning with the multiple illness I must cope with, are the esoteric object's of art that surround me. These collections that represent my lifetime.

I am an aghoaphobe, I do not go anywhere. I love to stay in my home. It is a safe cacoon for me that I have created. My attorney definently understands that.

NOW REALITY, AS HOMER CALLS IT

I am in $45,000 credit card debt (from my initial $20,000 retainer and $20,000 I spent in renovating the rental home so it would not be condenmed).

Obviously, I'm not seeing a pay-off for the business - essentially, I will be lucky to see it ten years from now. Really, I had imagined saving those payments for an IRA - and then, by the age of retirement - I might actually have an appropriate nest-egg. That's not gonna happen.

SO HOW DO I SOLVE THIS PROBLEM

If I had the $31,000 check the judge granted me, I could put a huge dent into that credit card debt, and free up hundreds of dollars that are being wasted on interest payments. But she has the check in her safe, with no endoresments. And I made this agreement with her under false premises. I did pose the question - "would I get my share of interest from the check when it's returned to me? But that question was never answered. I'm hoping that left a loophole in that screwed up negotioation.

WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW

I fired her. But - she will not stop working. Opposing council will not take me seriously as a Pro Se.

She filed Motion for Legal Fees last week. I see a glaring mistake in the document.

ANOTHER ISSUE

There was a seal on my medical records in Court, and a confidentiality document with a $10,000 fine if breeched. I nor my husband could read the doctors notes or records. And the Doctor could only testify and be question - no written materials would be on record. When opposing council was questioning me, he asked if I was aware if the doctor (IME) considered me "delusional?" And I said "WHAT? I never heard him testify to that." Immediately, my attorney shut him down - explained quickly he couldn't use that material.

Naturally, that bothered me, and was embassing - since it was out of context. I can only guess what it reffered to. The doctor did discuss sounds I heard in my ears - and he said he "did not believe I was hearing voices, he thought I was suffering from tennititus, which is also a side effect of some of the powerful drugs I must take." Of course, I am just speculating and have been for weeks, about what that "delusunal" crap meant - and I can never know - because those are sealed records.

HOW'S THE MEDICAL THING RELEVANT

Well, once the atttorney told me for sure I'm not getting the payments, my mind started trying to figure out how to get money. Since this matter has been bothering me - and I've been dealing with it in therapy twice a week now, perhaps the other attorney did something wrong, and is responsible for my torment over this.

Rather than weigh the validity of my claim, my attorney provided a smart mouth comment to suggest why the "delusional" charactization might actually be true. I believe it is possible she may have been, quoting out of context, something else I told the Doctor. I'm not sure, I cannot recall. But, that cannot be the proper way for my attorney to respond to me.

I'm telling you guys, I am scared out of my mind.

Does anyone know if the judge can make me sell everything in the house?

Now, I don't trust her. But she and Opposing Concil are ignoring my firing her. And I need the insurance check. But, I'm not sure - maybe if I get the check - I should put it on the credit cards. I don't know what to do.

I have a driver that can go to the lawfirm and pick it up. There is no way I can go there. What do you guys think?

My X was supposed to pay 2012 property taxes yesterday - and did not - so I put, again on my credit card - almost 4 grand so not to be late. This is crazy. I'm so mixed up. Please help. I cannot check spelling - I'm too nervious.

Yas

PS Maybe some of you hate me because of alimony. You need to know back story of 23 abuse before you condemn me. You also need to comprehend the conduct on my x's part that was a contributing factor to shock I suffered that ultimately led to me developing this desease, (of which I had a propesity).

October 21, 2012

I'd see a competent bankruptcy attorney for a free interview. My bet is there's a way to structure this. Keep everything on the down low. Continue playing the nervous, unsure, participant in the current actions. IMO, a PlanB could help you. We're not the source for such a plan, since we're not legal advisers/lawyers.

If I were in your shoes, I'd merely get a referral from my law firm to an in-house or external BK attorney and set up an appointment for next week. My attorney was great with options and scenarios and at explaining the risks/benefits of legal and illegal actions, especially relevant to planB.

Good luck.

October 21, 2012

Thank you Carhil. I don't have to play, the mania has started, and the damn paranoia has kicked it - and keeping me from thinking straight.

Yes, BR attorney - tomorrow I will find. My attorney is, of course, ignoring me. Especially since I fired her. I already asked her directly about this very topic in same convo we had, and she said maybe she'd give me a referral. Timing may be a factor here.

Driver

I have hired a professional driver with my last 300 bucks to work 8 hours running around this week. He is also a part time body-guard - he escorted me the court house during the trial.

I find any of these places, or I'm going to end up flipping my car. First thing tomorrow he's going to attempt to pick up the insurance check at the law office, with judges order in hand, and my power or attorney (to only pick up check). If they refuse, he's going to call the Sherriff.

If driver is successful in getting check, we plan for him to take check to husband for endorement.

That will put money in my account.

How does that sound for a plan so far? Yas

October 21, 2012

Yas,

Why can't you see your own medical records?

October 21, 2012

Guess I need to get into see Psychiatrist asap. He reduced my anti-psychotic med last week. Now with this new stress, that's likely problematic. I need to get there - tomorrow, period. Mental illness sucks, especially when you effing smart.

October 21, 2012

Oh, another suggestion: Make your personal physical and mental/emotional health Job #1. If other jobs must be sacrificed, so be it.

Next to death, divorce is IMO the most stressful dynamic a person can go through. Your marriage died. That's a horrible reality. If you also struggle with brain chemistry issues, that reality is often even more pronounced, hence a priority of attention and directed resources.

One day at a time. Our MC helped me in this regard by suggesting that I focus on one positive thing each day and working it and considering that to be my success for the day. Tomorrow was a new day. It worked. A competent therapist/psychologist will suggest tools to try which apply in your case. Hope it works out.

October 21, 2012

Yas,
Why can't you see your own medical records?

These notes were the product of an independent medical exam for the purposes of litagation. The only material that could be revealed to me was the Doctor's testimony. The doctor did not create a report - but he did create notes. They are sealed by order of a confindentiality clause. I cannot even see them - even during Court.

There were some medical records I allowed the the independent Doctor to have access to from my current psychiatrist. I can have access to those records with no problem. But no body could read current psychiatrist's notes, anyway. And my personal psychiatrist was not testifying.

October 21, 2012

This sounds like good advice to me too.

Yas - sorry for your troubles. Your lawyer is terrible. The fact she didn't negotiate for interest on a 10 year delay in payout is crazy. Clearly she doesn't understand time value of money. Not much else to say. Good luck.

I worked all my life, and was the top wage earner. We asked for half the business asset, which was actually 200G.

So, to receive only 75G, is pretty bad - that business was our retirement future. Only to find now - I won't see it for ten years? Sap, there is no negotiating, that was the judge's ruling.

In hindsight - I see there are some things the judge did not have knowledge of. But, damn. I'm really worried. It sounds so great - but I cannot unload this re-estate. I don't have enough to re-furbish it. I will be lucky to afford my meds. Lots of money - but all down the tubes on an outragious mortgage.

October 21, 2012

OP, if you were damaged materially through actions/inactions of your attorney, you may also have grounds for a claim/complaint against the attorney and their firm. Inadequate/incompetent representation is one potential to investigate. A layperson will not have the required knowledge to assess this potential, but a competent attorney should. A BK attorney, when apprised of your legal process to date, may offer comment/opinion on that factor as a potential plan of action. Listen to all potentials and act on the ones which address your goal, which you should clearly spell out for the attorney you seek to engage.

October 21, 2012

Oh, another suggestion: Make your personal physical and mental/emotional health Job #1. If other jobs must be sacrificed, so be it.

Next to death, divorce is IMO the most stressful dynamic a person can go through. Your marriage died. That's a horrible reality. If you also struggle with brain chemistry issues, that reality is often even more pronounced, hence a priority of attention and directed resources.

One day at a time. Our MC helped me in this regard by suggesting that I focus on one positive thing each day and working it and considering that to be my success for the day. Tomorrow was a new day. It worked. A competent therapist/psychologist will suggest tools to try which apply in your case. Hope it works out.

Carhil, I was doing so well. Twice a week to the therapy, and psychiatrist just reduced anti-psychotic - as my paranoia symptoms were gone. I was really dealing with this issue of the mysterious "breech" of the out of context note from the IME, that the opposing council may have made an error of shocking me with. But my attorney getting on the dame bandwagon, and further supporting this "delusional" assumption really has freaked me out.

I have all my medicines, and am keeping all my appointments. But I am so frightened. I don't have any friends, really. As I am so alone, with the agoraphobia. And now, I am afraid the attorneys are setting me up - to make me sell everything in the house that is precious to me.

October 21, 2012

It is just like Carhil says - the divorce process - four years of nonsense, has been devistating to my health.

My husband has strung it out as long as possible. Also, I have been stalked, my car has been tailed, my home has been watched. I even ran after a car, and got photographs of the plates and the culpret, severly injuring myself in the process, last year. Just like the driver serveilling my home told me: "Lady, there ain't nothing you can do about it." This is another reason I have isolated myself. Now, with this legal complications, and the fact I do not trust the attorney, I am literally ready to crack.

October 21, 2012

IMO and IME, having engaged competent attorneys, they are very directed and efficient in prosecuting the interests of their clients. The classic 'fee padding' doesn't have to exist, and doesn't with a good attorney IME. This is one area where networking is a real asset. Good referrals come from trusted colleagues and friends.

I understand and respect your fear. It's valid. It can be a potent motivator. You're in charge of that. TBH, if your doctor is altering your cocktail, I'd wait until the titration is complete and resultant effects analyzed before making any firm financial/legal decisions. Instincts are as important as information in such decisions, and it's so important to 'trust yourself'. Let the med/therapy dynamic settle out for a bit before making any irreversible decisions. Meantime, cast around for some legal help. For most, the initial consult is free, so mine that as much as you can. Knowledge is power and goes a long way towards directing and assuaging fear.

October 21, 2012

I'm so sorry, Yas. Sometimes life throws you **** and you got a big load of it.

Have you considered writing for a living? You are clearly good at it and it doesn't require you leaving your home. There are lots of people now who need help with things like letters, resumes, etc. Just a thought.

You know Sap, when I get myself settled down, three are so many things I would like to do. Write, research, and make my art again. It is certainly possible once I get this debt and health under control. I am blessed to have a disability income from two sourses. I am not on the street. This is doable. I am just freaked out about the attorney lieing to me - and whatever it possibly means.

And, I am unclear - if the judge can make me sell the objects that surround me that keep me inspried to "go on." They are pretty damn esoteric - and no one has done any appraisal. This is what I'm obsessed about at the moment. My surrounding/cacoon is important, no, critical to my survival - and it feels threatened to me right now. I hope this is just paranoia.

The opposing council suggested I work as a "Barresta" at Starbucks to suppliment my income. However, the drugs I take cause me to tremble - like I have Parkinson's. Tell you the truth, I don't think I could have handled that on the best day of my life! I cannot cope order from their menu! There is no small, medium, large. It's like a foreign country to me. I go into the gas station when I run out of coffee.

As well, I'm insured through a group policy with my former employer for 60% of my salary from my specific profession as a university professor that supervises student teachers in the public schools (tax-free - that was ten years ago - but it is a darn nice suppliment to social security - and I collect it for anothre ten years if I do not recover from the illness). If I take on a "Baresta" position, I will lose my professional disability covreage. In all liklihood, with my history - I won't be offered another policy.

You know, the judge really never got that point. I cannot believe my attorney left that open.

October 21, 2012

OP, if you were damaged materially through actions/inactions of your attorney, you may also have grounds for a claim/complaint against the attorney and their firm. Inadequate/incompetent representation is one potential to investigate. A layperson will not have the required knowledge to assess this potential, but a competent attorney should. A BK attorney, when apprised of your legal process to date, may offer comment/opinion on that factor as a potential plan of action. Listen to all potentials and act on the ones which address your goal, which you should clearly spell out for the attorney you seek to engage.

I don't know where to start - I'm paralyzed.

I do have a free appointment on Nov. 7 - regarding assessing the medical issue. It is a smaller firm - a Harvard educated attorney. I warned him it was big guns he was looking at - and that's when he told me these large firms are just "all that" and explained his credentials.

I pretty much gave him this story here - but more briefly and less emotionally. He told me I "need to be careful." That was really scary. I have no gauantee he will represent me. And I made all sorts of waves when I dismissed my attorney so he would meet with me.

I also told a judge that I know, that is not anywhere near this area, what has happened. He said mental heath first, new attorney second, bar association third. He advised against contacting judge in my case - he says that complicates everything - and all parties have to be brought in. And he "hoped this advice was helpful." I really should not have involved him - but I was scared. He knows me as a highly ethical person that stands up for the right thing. I don't think he dobted my perceptions at all.

He listened closely to my concerns about the attorney actually wanting to endorse/cash the check - and then asking for the full legal fees as colaterial up front - before the Request for Legal Fees went to our judge. As stated, I wouldn't agree to that - cause I thought that would be misleading the judge in my case, as it's like telling the judge the fees are due and oweing when the attorney knows full well they have the money in their bank account.

But the judge that I know and contacted, properly, did not comment on anything in my case - and directed me to correct sources. I'm just feeling paralized right now. I gotta few things set up - but - I'm, I guess, overwhelmed.

1. Try to have driver pick up check at law office tomorrow

2. Try to locate a bankrupsy attorney

What else should I do while I have driver to help me tomorrow? Bar association maybe? How do I do it? I'm a member of NAMI.ORG. Should I contact them. I'm spinning. Help.

October 21, 2012

yas

Yeah i can`t help you on the legal side! sorry

Maybe i can help you think thou?

are you coming out with more or less than what you went in with?

hugs
coops

I come out with much more than ever possible if I had not helped him get this business, for ten years (plus two years of payments on business settlement).

His earning are now x ten what they were before, at least. However, the properties, are milked, and up-side-down, and I own the pricey property, that we got after the business, because the one he is living in is worthless - no hope for recovery in market.

He will be a rich man, with the known income from business. He can rent his place - and easily buy another nice one. He has all the credit power now.

I "own" two nice properties, that are in the hole (is that better than owning nothing? I don't know). One is rented, for now. My expenses are paid for 10 years. That is a decent outcome, not great, but decent. Many get less than this.

October 21, 2012

ok. and emotionally?

Emotionally -I cannot even think/remember about it right now, cause I'm so scared about this current event. I cannot recall where I was emotionally with him, at the moment.

It wasn't too bad, as I recall. It is the trouble with these medications, I can only focus on one crisis at a time. I recall saying "I loved him" in the Court - "but he didn't want me anymore." I recall accepting that fact. I recall grieving him two years ago. I bet all this is in my past posts - I just cannot focus on it right now, so sorry.

October 21, 2012

What's the timeline for this all being over? This is the important thing, I think. You need closure.

Probably another month or so - till judge determines who will pay my astronomical legal fees, and when, and how. The judge makes his decisions pretty fast. The opposing council has ten days now to respond to our reuest for legal fees. Then it is up to the Judge and God.

I was at peace, I thought, I believed, I was working on this, not doing any dumb things - until ---- there came the obvious conclusion that my attorney may be untrustworthy, or at least, has used bad judgment in some ways. Niether is a good think with my personality as it is.

October 21, 2012

yas...don`t you ever apologise to me! i wouldn`t be here if it wasn`t for guys like you .

i didn`t mean emotionally with him i meant, in you.

but nevermind. it`s ok, i get you:cool:.

In a `perfect` world, what would you like to see happen in your dilemma?

In a perfect world, all I want to know, is if I get to keep my stuff in the house. That is all I care about.

IN ORDER TO COVER MY LEGAL FEES: Is there a very real potential of some estate sale, where everything in my home could be autioned off?

This is the "fear factor" I have created in my mind, now that I don't trust the attorney. In a perfect world, I want to know the answer to this question, and naturally, I don't want this to happen. This house, this place, this town, this is nothing to me without the security of the things I know around me.

It is not materialism - it is history - a visual history of my life, this is how I understand my world - visually. I am an artist. The thinks I have collected in my lifetime are my inspration.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Yasuandio

October 21, 2012

ok. and emotionally? ( same question)

Emotionally with regards to me only. At last therapy session, Thursday, my anxiety was beginning to esculate due to these issues. Now - the anxiety is crossing the line to mania, and I have to alert the psychiatrist tomorrow.

Emotionally, it is a feeling of extreme fear of the unknown.. No answers - and more and more time to stew on it, I've like catastrophized it.

I emiotially feel scared, afraid, fear, I've been crying while I write some of these entries. I have done my best not to begin a thread on LS. But, emotionally - I feel desparate, spinning, out of control.

I do not feel in danger of hurting myself or others. But I look around me, and I see an effing disaster, that is not going to get cleaned up anytime soon. This is cause for more panic and paranoia - suppose those ash - holes cal social servicces on me, or try to get me locked up? This is the kind of crap that is paralizing me now.

I function just fine, I mean, I can function without heat, electric, and gas if I have to - and burn wood in the fireplace - that is what I did while restoring the rental - cause I couldn't afford utilities over there last winter.

OK - trying to focus, emotionally -I'm trying to hold it together. Not happy, sad, just fearful. I'm even having an issue digesting that word. I hope I got to it this time, Coop. Thanks for your help.

October 21, 2012

I don't even know what this post is about, but I'm very curious about something OP...

What drives you to write words like "complexities." and not words like "to?"

100% serious

Gadgets and over-education. Yas

Edited October 21, 2012 by Yasuandio
4-got to cite "gadget" terminology.

October 21, 2012

Hi Yas - "One brick at a time" like Coop says. Sounds familiar huh?

1 - The paranoia....no one is going to call anyone. You've not done anything to anyone for them to and no one has a power of attorney over you to do that. So lay your mind at ease. Are you paying someone to do a job for you that didn't do it very well, most likely, and you have a reason to dismiss them and complain.

2 - Is your husband's counsel taking liberty with sealed court documents by using info there in court breaching confidentiality, I think so and would be worth looking into. You may even be able to do this with the Bar Association to enact the confidentiality clause for the fine. If you hire another legal counsel to do this, ensure that his legal fees are covered outside of the fine settlement so you don't end up paying him more than what you are going after.

3 - The biggest thing that bothers me about the entire situation is the judge's ruling that you have to wait 10 years after your alimony ends to get your settlement on the business you helped to invest in to begin with. And that it is a $$ amount and not a percentage. In 10 years, $75k may or may not be worth 25%...you might be getting 1% to 3% of the total worth by then. If he does sell the business before the ten years is up, it's good that you still get the full $75k, however, what if he goes bankrupt during that 10 years or at the 10 year mark....just makes me wonder what the judge was thinking when he stated after 10 years and why not in duration to the alimony. Although, the other side is that your ex will be paying for a very long time for his transgressions.

4 - The other thing that bothers me is that typically in settlements, people sell their community property or buy the other out. Thinking more about this, and what your lawyer stated about selling your personal pre-marital property to stay afloat for 10 years, no one can force you to do that....not even the judge. That would come down to personal choice and decision. I would wonder if there is not an issue with the firm's finances or perhaps your attorney needing to end the court case and come to a quick settlement so she could move to another firm or private firm, hence needing you to agree to terms that may not have been so good. I would recommend keeping an eye out on that firm and if the lawyers disband or she moves firms just in case as that can be another complaint to the Bar Association.

October 24, 2012

Hey Yas,

Just checking in and hoping you got to see the psychiatrist before further escalation. Hang in there. I feel pretty helpless right now and Coop is right...focus, only one thing. I know when the Mania sets in it is hard, really hard, but count backwards from 100 by 3s, 7s, whatever you have to and do it as many times as you have to. Close your eyes and see each number and when other things intrude, really visualize.

For me, I like to start at 88, I like the double infinity, which calms me, when all my thoughts go spiraling.

Not much on the advice front, but know I am thinking about you

PS

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