Women don't make an effort

[Drseussgrrl]

Judging by the fact that there are 25% more women earning degrees now than men, I'd say it's a pretty good indicator of where things will stand in the years to come.

 

Guess you shouldn't have let us out of the house to get edumucated! Whoops!

[espec10001]

Judging by the fact that there are 25% more women earning degrees now than men, I'd say it's a pretty good indicator of where things will stand in the years to come.

 

Guess you shouldn't have let us out of the house to get edumucated! Whoops!

 

Haha! You won't be singing the same tune in the years to come sweety

[scratch]

Men and women have different needs in relationships.

 

Men need to feel appreciated and trusted. Women need to feel adored and protected.

 

It's got nothing to do with us trying to "compete" with you or jealousy, or feeling inferior to you. We simply need to have the same opportunities as you do. It started with being treated as equal human beings, not property. The right to vote. The right to own land. So on and so forth.

 

Let's face it - women can't simply wait around to get married and have a man take care of the rest nowadays, even if we wanted to.

 

There are portions of your post with which I take issue. It has an undercurrent of inequity. For example, my guess is that you also need to feel appreciated and trusted, and if you didn't feel the man appreciated and trusted you, it would be intolerable. However, if a man intimated to you that he also needed to feel adored and protected, it would cause you to view him as weak and needy and turn you off.

 

Perhaps I am assuming too much, so I'll ask - do you think women don't need to be trusted and appreciated? Do you think men actually do need to be protected and adored? Or, have I accurately identified a situation where you want both sets of benefits, but only feel obligated to provide one set in return?

 

You may say that equity is beside the point, that life's not fair and sometimes that's just the way it is. However, you need to be prepared for the inequity to cut against you sometimes without bemoaning the unfairness of it all.

[Drseussgrrl]

I'm not bemoaning anything. Well I take that back - I've bemoaned the fact that I've dated asshats over the past year but that's my own fault.

 

Honestly the antiquated ideas about women in this thread has really left me feeling, I dunno, disappointed. Men should be proud of the achievements of their sisters, mothers, daughters and wives. Not made to feel as though we're rat sh*t without a man around to make all these things possible. We should be celebrating one another in both our weaknesses and strengths. They should compliment one another, not placing one of more importance or relevance.

 

It's posts like Espec's that make me feel so lucky that I have a really supportive dad, brother, and male friends who don't feel threatened by women alongside them in society or the workplace.

[espec10001]

I'm not bemoaning anything. Well I take that back - I've bemoaned the fact that I've dated asshats over the past year but that's my own fault.

 

Honestly the antiquated ideas about women in this thread has really left me feeling, I dunno, disappointed. Men should be proud of the achievements of their sisters, mothers, daughters and wives. Not made to feel as though we're rat sh*t without a man around to make all these things possible. We should be celebrating one another in both our weaknesses and strengths. They should compliment one another, not placing one of more importance or relevance.

 

It's posts like Espec's that make me feel so lucky that I have a really supportive dad, brother, and male friends who don't feel threatened by women alongside them in society or the workplace.

 

No where did I say I was threatened. If women want to do all the work just so they can say they're strong and independent and don't need a man, then I say let them! Let them do all the work. Let them work the jobs, and come home and clean and do all the work. They want more work, we'll give it to them.

[threebyfate]

No where did I say I was threatened. If women want to do all the work just so they can say they're strong and independent and don't need a man, then I say let them! Let them do all the work. Let them work the jobs, and come home and clean and do all the work. They want more work, we'll give it to them.

In your scenario, it's best if women only marry rich guys since they can afford to pay for domestic help.

[scratch]

I'm not bemoaning anything. Well I take that back - I've bemoaned the fact that I've dated asshats over the past year but that's my own fault.

 

Honestly the antiquated ideas about women in this thread has really left me feeling, I dunno, disappointed. Men should be proud of the achievements of their sisters, mothers, daughters and wives. Not made to feel as though we're rat sh*t without a man around to make all these things possible. We should be celebrating one another in both our weaknesses and strengths. They should compliment one another, not placing one of more importance or relevance.

 

It's posts like Espec's that make me feel so lucky that I have a really supportive dad, brother, and male friends who don't feel threatened by women alongside them in society or the workplace.

 

It seems you neglected to address the main thrust of my message. You talked about what men needed and what women needed. I asked if women needed different things than men, or if they needed the same things as men plus additional things. They were just yes/no questions, I'm not sure why you skipped them, unless you're primarily interested in winning a debate rather than exploring ideas.

 

If you feel women do in fact need everything, rather than just different things, it may be fair to suggest that you are furthering those antiquated notions of inequality.

 

Tread lightly when criticizing men for not taking pride in the achievements of women. If you're talking about achievements completing school, taking care of a family and being self-sufficient, remember that these aren't achievements when men do them, but merely men doing what is expected of them. Do you see why it looks like you, as a woman, are trying to have it both ways?

[Drseussgrrl]

You didn't need to spell it out.

 

It's reading between the lines. No man secure in his masculinity would say things like that.

 

Be upset about it all you want. We're not going backwards. Sorry.

[espec10001]

In your scenario, it's best if women only marry rich guys since they can afford to pay for domestic help.

 

But women don't need rich guys, they can do it themselves! They can raise a child (or several) by themselves AND go to work full time AND clean the house AND work out. You silly girl! Come on, you aren't working hard enough! You need to work harder!

[espec10001]

You didn't need to spell it out.

 

It's reading between the lines. No man secure in his masculinity would say things like that.

 

Be upset about it all you want. We're not going backwards. Sorry.

 

I'm not upset at all. I'm quite amused. You think it's progress, but you're being fooled. In fact I feel sorry for modern girls in a way. You as a girl can't comment on my security because you aren't a man, or at least I would be a fool to put faith in a girl's assessment of my security.

[threebyfate]

But women don't need rich guys, they can do it themselves! They can raise a child (or several) by themselves AND go to work full time AND clean the house AND work out. You silly girl! Come on, you aren't working hard enough! You need to work harder!

That's why partner material is defined by a 50/50 split of work effort. Men who aren't willing to do their fair share, aren't partner material.

[Drseussgrrl]

It would be ridiculous to say that men ONLY need certain things and women ONLY need other things. Men's primary emotional needs are different from women's, and are different from person to person. Wouldn't you agree?

[threebyfate]

I'm not upset at all. I'm quite amused. You think it's progress, but you're being fooled. In fact I feel sorry for modern girls in a way. You as a girl can't comment on my security because you aren't a man, or at least I would be a fool to put faith in a girl's assessment of my security.

 

It would be ridiculous to say that men ONLY need certain things and women ONLY need other things.

I agree with this aspect, Drseussgrrl. Notice how little respect espec10001 has for women in general? Very telling and an attitude that you should be wary of when considering partner material. He's better suited to have a stepford wife. Doubt he can afford one though.

[scratch]

You didn't need to spell it out.

 

It's reading between the lines. No man secure in his masculinity would say things like that.

 

Be upset about it all you want. We're not going backwards. Sorry.

 

Sigh. Civility isn't always my strong suit, but I will try.

 

Maybe I haven't achieved all you have with regard to education, but allow me to counsel you to either use the quote function or, at the very least, avoid indefinite pronouns.

 

Would you agree that it's less than constructive to respond to me as you did? It seems that your point here is that men who have emotional needs that you don't want to abide are weak, but that women who have logistical needs are simply demanding the equality they deserve.

 

In fact, I'd suggest that there is a shaming element to your post; when a man doesn't give a women exactly what she wants, or wants something she doesn't want to give, the fault lies with him as somehow being inadequate.

 

What do you mean by "we're not going backwards?" You seem to want to go "backwards" when it suits you.

[Drseussgrrl]

Scratch, that post wasn't directed at you. It was at Espec.

 

And yeah I responded that way because quite frankly he's coming across as a misogynist pig.

 

In time, types like him will cease to exist because there won't be any more men around who remember the "good ol days" when women stayed home and remained in their place.

[espec10001]

I agree with this aspect, Drseussgrrl. Notice how little respect espec10001 has for women in general? Very telling and an attitude that you should be wary of when considering partner material. He's better suited to have a stepford wife. Doubt he can afford one though.

 

Attacking my financial security now? You think that's going to hurt me? Hahaha! Money doesn't mean anything to me honey.

 

I have much respect for women, but modern girls have been brainwashed by liberal media into thinking they are "progressing" when it's really a big scam and they have no idea.

[espec10001]

Scratch, that post wasn't directed at you. It was at Espec.

 

And yeah I responded that way because quite frankly he's coming across as a misogynist pig.

 

In time, types like him will cease to exist because there won't be any more men around who remember the "good ol days" when women stayed home and remained in their place.

 

Wishful thinking, but sadly this won't happen. When times get rough, (which they will), girls will come running back to men and assume their place again. Men know something that women don't and even if they told you, you wouldn't understand. Telling someone a truth that they cannot comprehend is the same as telling them a lie, so it is better left unsaid.

[espec10001]

Sigh. Civility isn't always my strong suit, but I will try.

 

Maybe I haven't achieved all you have with regard to education, but allow me to counsel you to either use the quote function or, at the very least, avoid indefinite pronouns.

 

Would you agree that it's less than constructive to respond to me as you did? It seems that your point here is that men who have emotional needs that you don't want to abide are weak, but that women who have logistical needs are simply demanding the equality they deserve.

 

In fact, I'd suggest that there is a shaming element to your post; when a man doesn't give a women exactly what she wants, or wants something she doesn't want to give, the fault lies with him as somehow being inadequate.

 

What do you mean by "we're not going backwards?" You seem to want to go "backwards" when it suits you.

 

Scratch, there's no need to worry. It's only been in the last 60 or 70 years that we've seen this insanity on a large scale mostly in the West. However, this short period of time cannot undue millennia of natural order.

[threebyfate]

Attacking my financial security now? You think that's going to hurt me? Hahaha! Money doesn't mean anything to me honey.

 

I have much respect for women, but modern girls have been brainwashed by liberal media into thinking they are "progressing" when it's really a big scam and they have no idea.

Hold it. Money doesn't mean anything to you so you can't support a stay at home wife and yet, you expect that the woman will cook and clean for you. Speaking of scams. Any woman who falls for nonsense like this would need her head examined. Luckily, none have.

[Drseussgrrl]

Times are already tough, honey, and there isn't a man around to take care of my sh*t but ME. This is life.

 

Care to explain how I can land myself a real manly man to assume my living expenses so I can pop him out a kid or two? And what do you mean, come running back to men? Hell I love men! I haven't gone anywhere.

 

To do what you suggest is EXACTLY what men around here (on THIS VERY THREAD) would dub a GOLD-DIGGER and PROSTITUTE. Women looking at men for the purposes of security and a paycheck.

 

I'm honestly surprised none of them have resurfaced to call you out on this.

[scratch]

Scratch, there's no need to worry. It's only been in the last 60 or 70 years that we've seen this insanity on a large scale mostly in the West. However, this short period of time cannot undue millennia of natural order.

 

Well, I'm not so sure I want to return to a world where women are the lower caste. I think life is best with an equal teammate or partner.

 

My last ex was a super-traditional woman, in the sense that she lived to stay home and serve me. There was no errand, task or sexual act I would ask for that she wouldn't perform.

 

You know what? I couldn't handle it, because I couldn't respect someone who was not self-sufficient, and who's life purpose was to attach herself to my side any moment I was not at work instead of pursuing her own individual goals.

[NoMoreJerks]

Espec has a binder full of women.

 

A man didn't get me through bootcamp. A man didn't get me through college. A man didn't land me this job and a man doesn't pay my rent.

 

But of course, it sounds to you as though I should have spent all that time barefoot and pregnant making sure dinner was on the table for you when you get home from work.

 

This is getting truly laughable.

Well said!

[espec10001]

Hold it. Money doesn't mean anything to you so you can't support a stay at home wife and yet, you expect that the woman will cook and clean for you. Speaking of scams. Any woman who falls for nonsense like this would need her head examined. Luckily, none have.

 

Ah, but you do fall for it! Over and over and over again. What incentive is there for a man to be with a woman who can do it all herself? Her beauty? Well, beauty fades. Her personality? Well, yes that's a good reason but we're talking money now. How uninspired and trite the accusation over a man's monetary worth has become that unfortunately for you no longer carries the same weight because, well, you can do it all yourself!

 

You can earn all the money and the man can relax, because there is that fundamental piece of information about men that you are missing and that you cannot comprehend! You want to throw away your femininity and ties to humanity in favor of becoming an automaton? Go right ahead, no man will stop you.

 

Well, some men have tried to stop you, but the liberal media is just so good at influencing people's opinions, especially women's, isn't it?

[fortyninethousand322]

I don't get why people are making these men who got involved with "gold diggers" into sympathetic characters. Maybe they got taken, but you know what, they knew what they were getting into when they went down that path. Save the sympathy for people who deserve it.

[espec10001]

Times are already tough, honey, and there isn't a man around to take care of my sh*t but ME. This is life.

 

Care to explain how I can land myself a real manly man to assume my living expenses so I can pop him out a kid or two? And what do you mean, come running back to men? Hell I love men! I haven't gone anywhere.

 

To do what you suggest is EXACTLY what men around here (on THIS VERY THREAD) would dub a GOLD-DIGGER and PROSTITUTE. Women looking at men for the purposes of security and a paycheck.

 

I'm honestly surprised none of them have resurfaced to call you out on this.

 

First of all, don't call me honey. I'm not your honey. Second, you land yourself a manly man by being a real woman and submitting to him. He'll take care of you and you won't need to work and multitask like a robot. But, because you wanted equality, because you wanted to behave like a man, not only do you now have masculine responsibilities like "taking care of your stuff", you now have to also cook, clean, and raise children without a man to support you.

 

Congratulations! You now work harder and do more today for less in return. That's progress, isn't it?