Women don't make an effort

[SJC2008]

You got to find more mature women. A girl who likes you and wants to spend time with you isn't going to play games, and if she does, just FORGET about her. Seriously, if she takes 3 days to respond, number deleted. That's it. Move on, find another girl who isn't so immature.

 

At the time they were (in order of appearance) 26,23 and 31.

I didn't bat an eye about the 23 yr old I wasn't too interested. The other 2 I was really interested in, especially the last which everyone here knows about. It's always the ones I like that do this??

[threebyfate]

Carhill, you always summarize things so eloquently. Good post.

The "hole" comment was disturbing. Always great for women to be considered nothing but a hole. It would be like women describing men as nothing but pocketbooks.

 

As far as women not making the effort. We make effort for men who are worth our effort, men who believe in mutuality instead of men who believe themselves to be god.

[Pyro]

If women never make an effort then I would still be a lonely virgin.

[threebyfate]

A nice hole? The holiest of holes?!:lmao:

What's your problem, canvas pocketbook with only one fold?

 

Today, I made a delicious dinner. That's effort enough!

[espec10001]

At the time they were (in order of appearance) 26,23 and 31.

I didn't bat an eye about the 23 yr old I wasn't too interested. The other 2 I was really interested in, especially the last which everyone here knows about. It's always the ones I like that do this??

 

Age does not always imply maturity.

[Taramere]

Generally speaking, the male approaches the female. Not necessarily because the female is special, but because the male is programmed to approach and pursue.

 

And women will respond in a positive way, and encourage - and sometimes even pursue...but here's the difference. Only (in most cases) if they think the male is special. And by that I don't mean "the tiny number of alphamales with a harem of women" that some of the bewildered and angry men on here seem to like fantasising about.

 

Look around you and you will see lots of couples comprised of people who might not seem special to you or to other people you know...but who are special to eachother because they have a connection. When a woman is behaving in an apathetic and disinterested way towards you, I think that's a very clear sign that given the choice of not dating or dating you, she would rather not date.

 

Which is a choice a lot of women will make. Some might date pretty much anybody who seems eligible, because their sights are on marriage and children - and possibly being supported. Those are the women you should identify and pursue if you're anxious to hook up with just anybody (even if there isn't much real chemistry between you). In that sense you'd be using a woman's limited options to get whatever it is you want out of her (eg regular sex and companionship, most likely). However, you're indicating that you want a woman who will be charming, make you laugh etc. For that side to come out, she has to like you.

 

Your thoughts about women must be based on personal experience of us. What you're presenting here is that you only get negative experiences with women...and so the logical conclusion is that women don't tend to like you. That could be because you don't like women, or it could be because you don't enjoy or get female humour...or just generally have a negative view of them (which certainly seems to be the case judging from this thread) and they pick up vibes about that.

 

For whatever reason, it sounds as though women don't connect with you and you don't connect with women....and you're trying to make some sociological issue of it rather than admitting to yourself that this is a personal "interacting with other people" problem that you're experiencing. An entire gender certainly isn't about to transform itself in order to make John Stiles feel better about himself. Asking women to look inward because of your unhappiness isn't logical. if you want to figure out why your interactions with women aren't better, you must look inward.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Taramere

[Emilia]

Thanks. Yes I'm well aware of all the predictable responses. I don't think any of them could possibly say anything that would come as a surprise.

 

so why bother posting? unless you are just flaming of course

[Taramere]

With all due respect, you've misunderstood my point.

 

Then perhaps you'd be good enough to clarify the point for me. You've presented a complaint on this thread....the complaint being that you don't think women are sufficiently interested (in you), entertaining, funny, charming and complete as people.

 

Whose complaint is it? Yours or theirs? Are you complaining because you feel unable to meet a woman who is all these things you would want her to be...or are women complaining to you because you dump them for not being all these things? Have you ever dumped a woman for not being sufficiently interested in you, and if so...did she come back and ask you for an explanation?

 

If she did, then that would be your opportunity to present the view you've presented on this board. As it is, with this thread you appear to be answering a question that wasn't asked.

[kae]

hi,

 

im a woman and i actually prefer chasing the guy. Iam not overtly aggressive but im active. I find that i crave a hard to get guy.. i dont respond well to men who stare down women..who are emotionally seeking validation. Im very balanced in touch with my feminity but my masculinity makes my life so f-en fun. I do experience guys not knowing how to respond to the mix ... and they too get upset if i lean too much to any one side, including being too feminine. ei crying, too affectionate, too mothery, too girly..

 

Anyhow i love me a man who evokes deep feelings of submission. I cant tap into that without a bit of eeeep damnit..urg.hehe begging. Meanwhile, Im a strong independent fairly attractive female.. what i find is that im drawn to my equal.. with possibly more self control..and that`s it.

i love ..fawn for self control.

 

.. you know. so .. it all depends on the woman and her inner workings.

[kiss_andmakeup]

The "hole" comment was disturbing. Always great for women to be considered nothing but a hole. It would be like women describing men as nothing but pocketbooks.

 

As far as women not making the effort. We make effort for men who are worth our effort, men who believe in mutuality instead of men who believe themselves to be god.

 

I guess I didn't read his post that way...it didn't sound like he was referring to women as holes, rather, the vacancy left by guys too shy or intimidated to approach.

[ladyabstrused]

Generally speaking, the male approaches the female. Not necessarily because the female is special, but because the male is programmed to approach and pursue. It's not personal, it's just nature. Someone has to get the ball rolling, and nature has chosen the male to do it. The male can't check out the female to see if she's worth spending time with if he doesn't initiate contact.

 

I notice that females are very lazy in contributing to the development of an interaction. Let's face it there are very few charming females, and they don't usually make men laugh or try. When a woman has a sense of humour it's generally understood that this means she gets and laughs at jokes and witty things, but more often than not it's males who say them.

 

Males, knowing their role as approachers, spend many years learning the skills necessary to cold approach females and make an effort to sell themselves. As a result, they generally become somewhat skilled in interactions, as well as thick skinned. That's the active role.

 

Females have the passive, receptive role. That's the way it is and it works. The penis (active) goes into the vagina (receptive) and likewise, interactions work in a similar way.

 

The problem is that there's a lack of balance on the part of females. Males have not only gained skills in being active, they have also learned balance, for example, listening skills (passive), and to some extent, being in touch with their feminine side. Males I would say are generally pretty well balanced.

 

But females don't seem to have developed that balance. Yang needs to have an element of yin to be balanced, and likewise, yin needs a bit of yang to be balanced. Males have done rather well in this, but females are far behind. For example, and this is one of the most common examples, when a female is approached, she usually assumes that by virtue of being female, she has done everything she needs to do to impress the male. She thinks that he is already 100% interested in her. As a result, she makes very little effort if any to impress the male. This is a major error of judgment. The extreme of this is when the female behaves in a high maintenance manner.

 

There's also the "what have you done for me lately" mentality, which is common. Also, although there's a lot of emphasis on males being in touch with their feminine side, there's very little talk of females being in touch with their masculine side. And whereas there's a lot of advice on how to be a "real man", there's relatively very little talk of how to be a "real woman".

 

As a result of the upbringing that a lot of females have, they don't make much of an effort. They've become excessively passive, sometimes to the point of entitlement.

 

Sorry, but I didn't read the entire thread so I'm not sure what the other opinions are like. But I do agree to your post there, OP. But I'm sure there are many women who do make the effort on their part in the relationship.

 

I guess a real woman would be someone who'd admit what they're not doing fairly and want to improve because she loves her SO and wants to make the relationship work.

 

These are some valid points. Prepare for the attack.

 

As we know.. the women on this forum are not introspective and never really consider how they can improve themselves to be more attractive to men. Instead, they shame the men who give suggestions and tell them they need to change their ways. Men always need to change. Women on this forum are perfect and flawless.

 

Watch and see.

 

And I'm just talking about the women on this forum.. not women in general.

 

Not all women on this forum are like that. I do believe that although for the most part, the guy should be making the first moves, the women should also do their part in making the men feel wanted and appreciated. I personally feel that women should try to be as understanding to men as men would be to women.

[fortyninethousand322]

The F is wrong with guys today?

 

As a man, I see it as a supreme advantage that I'm the initiator. In fact, like others have said, initiation is usually the best way for a girl to respond to you.

 

Why is this? Well, I guess it's just nature. Yet, you guys seem to think it's a disadvantage! The hell is wrong with you?!

 

Look, men have all sorts of advantages in this world. The very fact that men have the POWER to initiate and that even though the media will tell you men will bang anything with two legs, this is not true at all. Men CHOOSE to initiate with just like women CHOOSE who they'll respond to.

 

Grow up! I'm not a Don Juan, but from personal experience I've had much better experiences when me as a male initiate because it just feels natural and I like it and so do they. Heck, the very fact that women want to work like men should tell you that in many ways they are jealous of certain qualities of men. I'm not bashing women, but a lot of guys on this forum forget the HUGE advantages men have over women!

 

For some guys (possibly a majority?) it is an advantage. For some guys (I put myself in this group) it is a disadvantage. I don't have enough confidence or trust to do the approaching, I see it as a waste of time and potentially embarrassing. So I don't do it, and I don't really want to.

 

I'm not mad about it and if I were a woman I'd expect men to approach me, completely understandable. I'm just not that kind of guy.

[sweetkiwi]

i pursue a guy if i want him and he is shy. Thats how i got with my current boyfriend. I got his number. Called him the next day and he kissed me at the disco.

 

I'm a woman with a good balance of femininity and aggressiveness.

[espec10001]

For some guys (possibly a majority?) it is an advantage. For some guys (I put myself in this group) it is a disadvantage. I don't have enough confidence or trust to do the approaching, I see it as a waste of time and potentially embarrassing. So I don't do it, and I don't really want to.

 

I'm not mad about it and if I were a woman I'd expect men to approach me, completely understandable. I'm just not that kind of guy.

 

You're a man, though. You have the inherent power to do this. Every man does. I do not speak ill of women, but since I am not a woman I cannot relate to them in the same way that I can a man because I am one myself like you.

 

Men experience the world differently than women do; men are treated differently than women because the sexes are not equal nor will they ever be. You, as a man, are at an advantage because you are more well equipped to deal with eternal realities.

 

The girl you approach, and she rejects you for whatever reason, or you feel stupid about it, means nothing. Yet, a man's strength, fortitude, willpower and endurance is something that women have always been envious of. Why else do they work today to compete with men? Why do they want to enter the workforce so they can experience this thing called independence that they have seen men have and they want it.

 

Yet, for some reason, no matter how hard they work, they will never get that "something" that men have within their being. Women may have the advantage when it comes to sexual or reproductive qualities of life, but men rule everything else. Can you not see why women might be jealous of this?

[SteveC80]

You're a man, though. You have the inherent power to do this. Every man does. I do not speak ill of women, but since I am not a woman I cannot relate to them in the same way that I can a man because I am one myself like you.

 

Men experience the world differently than women do; men are treated differently than women because the sexes are not equal nor will they ever be. You, as a man, are at an advantage because you are more well equipped to deal with eternal realities.

 

The girl you approach, and she rejects you for whatever reason, or you feel stupid about it, means nothing. Yet, a man's strength, fortitude, willpower and endurance is something that women have always been envious of. Why else do they work today to compete with men? Why do they want to enter the workforce so they can experience this thing called independence that they have seen men have and they want it.

 

Yet, for some reason, no matter how hard they work, they will never get that "something" that men have within their being. Women may have the advantage when it comes to sexual or reproductive qualities of life, but men rule everything else. Can you not see why women might be jealous of this?

 

I agree its not pc to say but why do you think women say they want to "look up" to their man literally and figureatively? you dont say that about somebody you think is your equal you say that about somebody you think is superior and can do things far greater then you can

[colombiana28]

I own my own place, have a great job, and have dated far too many guys 3-10 years older than me who live with their parents/siblings, have no career or ambitions, make no effort to "woo" me, and eventually are dumped. (of course, I've been proposed to 4 times, who wouldn't want a reasonably attractive woman with a solid career with no kids who's into sports and who makes dinner and gives awesome backrubs). I think I'm a natural pushover who just wants to make their man happy...even at the expense of my own happiness.

 

I was okay with it in my early 20's, but things are changing. Last week I went out with a guy who insisted on paying for our first date meal, opened my car door for me, and invited me back to HIS place. I've never been a girl to let a guy pay for me, but damn. I appreciated the effort, and it was a HUGE turn on.

 

Even if my brain wants an "Equal"...my nether regions appreciate a little "manly duty" once in awhile.

[Drseussgrrl]

Men and women have different needs in relationships.

 

Men need to feel appreciated and trusted. Women need to feel adored and protected.

 

It's got nothing to do with us trying to "compete" with you or jealousy, or feeling inferior to you. We simply need to have the same opportunities as you do. It started with being treated as equal human beings, not property. The right to vote. The right to own land. So on and so forth.

 

Let's face it - women can't simply wait around to get married and have a man take care of the rest nowadays, even if we wanted to.

[Drseussgrrl]

"Last week I went out with a guy who insisted on paying for our first date meal, opened my car door for me, and invited me back to HIS place. I've never been a girl to let a guy pay for me, but damn. I appreciated the effort, and it was a HUGE turn on. "

 

^^^ This. There's something about a guy who wants to treat you like a lady that gets my motor revving. I can't explain it. It's hot.

 

Careful though, Columbiana. There are "boys" on here who will be quick to label you an entitled princess or a prostitute because you liked that a man paid for your dinner.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Frankly, OP, I don't care at all what you think.

 

I believe that you are correct - men make more of an effort to initiate dates than women do, in general. And I'll even agree that they bear the brunt of the courtship rituals, in general.

 

Once a serious relationship is established, I am quite sure that the responsibility for maintaining this shifts, IN GENERAL. Wives do a great deal of the emotional maintenance of marriages.

 

I'm sorry that no girls or women seem to be interested in you.

[espec10001]

Men and women have different needs in relationships.

 

Men need to feel appreciated and trusted. Women need to feel adored and protected.

 

It's got nothing to do with us trying to "compete" with you or jealousy, or feeling inferior to you. We simply need to have the same opportunities as you do. It started with being treated as equal human beings, not property. The right to vote. The right to own land. So on and so forth.

 

Let's face it - women can't simply wait around to get married and have a man take care of the rest nowadays, even if we wanted to.

 

You don't know what a man needs. A woman telling a man how to be a man is ridiculous. You are not equal to man, and you never will be. You can try, and it's commendable, but it will never happen. Men gave you these things, these opportunities. You had to ask permission to vote, to own land, among other things.

 

There is nothing equal about nature. The only thing modern women's "independence" has done is destroy the core family unit where the man leads the household. You even admit it yourself, you as a woman want to be sheltered and protected by a strong man because that is the natural order.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Oh how I agree. That's the trouble. Feminism has taught women that they're automatically entitled to attention and flattery. It's the "you go girl" mentality. If only they knew how disgusting and unattractive it is. But this is all mostly a western problem, specifically english speaking countries. Women in certain so called backward countries would utterly wipe the floor with these western females when it comes to femininity and attractiveness (attitude wise). Western women want equality in those areas that suit them, but they also want the perks of entitlement. And notice how defensive they get when they're criticised.

 

I think that there should be a requirement that a person have at least a rudimentary understanding of feminism before posting about its effects. I assure you that it has nothing to do with attention and flattery. Let me suggest some reading for you, so you might perhaps become capable of intelligent discourse on the subject of feminism, even if you are vehemently against it.

 

I'll get right back to you with your book list.

[Drseussgrrl]

Espec has a binder full of women.

 

A man didn't get me through bootcamp. A man didn't get me through college. A man didn't land me this job and a man doesn't pay my rent.

 

But of course, it sounds to you as though I should have spent all that time barefoot and pregnant making sure dinner was on the table for you when you get home from work.

 

This is getting truly laughable.

[espec10001]

Espec has a binder full of women.

 

A man didn't get me through bootcamp. A man didn't get me through college. A man didn't land me this job and a man doesn't pay my rent.

 

But of course, it sounds to you as though I should have spent all that time barefoot and pregnant making sure dinner was on the table for you when you get home from work.

 

This is getting truly laughable.

 

Who created bootcamp? Who created college? In fact, who probably created the job? Oh, that's right, men. Heck, who created this machine we're using right now? Begins with an m and ends with...

[fortyninethousand322]

I own my own place, have a great job, and have dated far too many guys 3-10 years older than me who live with their parents/siblings, have no career or ambitions, make no effort to "woo" me, and eventually are dumped. (of course, I've been proposed to 4 times, who wouldn't want a reasonably attractive woman with a solid career with no kids who's into sports and who makes dinner and gives awesome backrubs). I think I'm a natural pushover who just wants to make their man happy...even at the expense of my own happiness.

 

I was okay with it in my early 20's, but things are changing. Last week I went out with a guy who insisted on paying for our first date meal, opened my car door for me, and invited me back to HIS place. I've never been a girl to let a guy pay for me, but damn. I appreciated the effort, and it was a HUGE turn on.

 

Even if my brain wants an "Equal"...my nether regions appreciate a little "manly duty" once in awhile.

 

You have every right to feel this way. I don't understand the naysayers.

[SteveC80]

A women does have the power and benefits in the courting stage once they have sex the power goes to a man