womaaaaaan Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 I've been with my partner for 9 years, we are both 27 years old and I have wanted to get married for about 2 years now. I was thinking of proposing to him over the coming holidays, but it's been a difficult year and I'm starting to think we've left this too long and I don't love him as much as i should. We've spent a good proportion of this year apart because of his work, we will be seeing each other again in 2 weeks and going on a road trip just the two of us for a few weeks. I feel like its too hard too judge my emotions with the distance between us, but every time I talk to him lately I feel angry and resentful he has made me wait this long and generally tends to be a black hole in terms of money, responsibility and thoughtfulness. I still love him for his core values and who he is, he says he loves me too (reguarly) he wants to marry me, have kids etc, but has all these other impractical ideas about moving every 2 years for the rest of our lives, me following him around for his work. But he's so lazy and disorganised that all these brilliant ideas will fall to me to organise... and how the hell are we supposed to move around with all these kids??? He says he hasn't asked me yet because our mothers and me keep pressuring him and he wants it to be a surprise. Surely surprise isn't an option after nearly a decade... I think its largely down to the malaise. Essentially I love him and I don't know how I would ever replace him, I'm just sick of waiting for him to grow up and bring some joy back into my life. I've been completely honest with him (as always) he knows that I'm likely to walk soon, but is yet to give me literally any reason to stay. I don't want to end a 9 year relationship due to apathy! HELP and suggestions appreciated!
TiredFamilyGuy Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) The time spent is sunk. You are 27. Young. Don't wait any longer. Sounds like communication between you has been none too good, for you to have such divergent dreams. You want marriage, kids, a stable home, commitment. He wants...well he seems to want to drift along with vague ideas that don't involve compromise or change on his part. He has not chosen, and you have not made him choose. No consequences equals no reason for him to change. Assuming you decide to give him a still further chance, he needs a definitive wake up call. Marriage is not enough - you need to form mutual expectations of number of kids, how you will share the labour of raising them, where you will live, finances, etc - or enough shares working assumptions about all of these things that mean you really understand each others wishes. "Values" sound deeper, but collapse them into life choices the what may seem like similar values, may be quite different. He's having his cake and eating it at the moment: but all he is offering you is pie in the sky, by and by. The excuses are lame - wanting it to be a surprise, pshaw! Just lay all these things out on the line, very clearly, once more. Know what you want first (sounds you do). Offer to talk all these things through with him right now, tell him he has a short time to step up, and if it turns out you can never agree, better to know that now. If he doesn't leap to do it, you have your answer and your next step is to leave. Don't wait. Sounds to me that he's just not grown up enough. Growing up may never happen, or happen only because you leave. Best of luck with whatever you decide. Edited October 18, 2012 by TiredFamilyGuy 2
suki1 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 You sound very much like a friend of mine who has been in almost exactly this situation recently. I'll say to you what I said to her. First, picture where you want to be, what your life would be like if you achieve all you want to at the age of 40. Now imagine what your life will be like at 40 with him as your husband/partner. Now picture your life at 40 without him in it. Which one is closer to the ideal? Which one helps you achieve the things that will ultimately make you happy? That is your answer. Also, sometimes what we want in a boyfriend at 18 is not what we want in a husband at 30. Then again, sometimes it is. Let us know what conclusion you come to honey x 1
Mr. Lucky Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 I'm curious as to why one of you didn't pull the marriage trigger around the 3-5 year mark? Mr. Lucky 1
Author womaaaaaan Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 Thank-you all so much for your suggestions!! Tiredfamilyguy, I had a very upfront and honest talk with him 2 days ago where I told him that I realised that I don't even really know what he wants, so he answered with where he wants his career to go and where he wants to live, I didn't seem to feature in this plan, so I told him this and he said I'm so much apart of him he doesn't think of us as separate anymore. I know he meant it to be sweet, but it just seems like a very good excuse to only think in terms of yourself. Anyway I quizzed him rigorously on kids, lifestyle etc. We don't match. I told him we don't match, I've payed and organised this 3 week trip together in a few weeks. I told him it is very likely to become a good bye tour and that if I don't feel like there is anything for me in this relationship we won't be together by the time we get home. I'm worried he thinks all he has to do is propose. Suki1 your right I've thought about how I would be at 40 with him and without, the latter definitely looks brighter in terms of the plans he has for the future, without the stupid plans though it would be a really nice and loving relationship. MrLucky We broke up for a little while at the 4 year mark so I lived overseas for a bit, marriage just wasn't an option at that stage, but we were stronger for the break. Thanks again everyone, I think I'm just at the stage now where I wait for his response and if there isn't one that I like, or one at all, walk really really sad
ScienceGal Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Anyway I quizzed him rigorously on kids, lifestyle etc. We don't match. I told him we don't match You have to make the best possible decision with the information that you have. It sounds like you have that information, but it's never easy, especially after 9 years. Good luck. 1
Daniel V. Ross Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Think about it again. Entering the marriage comes with great responsibilities and lots of changes.
Author womaaaaaan Posted October 19, 2012 Author Posted October 19, 2012 I called him this morning, angry and upset that he hadn't at least tried to contact me yet. He said I'd really scared him, he talked to his grandma... She told him that he needed to look after me and make some compromises and effort otherwise he would have a really lonely life. I told him that he always knew I wanted a home, some pets, a garden, and his idea of our life didn't allow for any of that and it was unfair for him to assume I'd base my life around his career. He said he knew I was right, and that he'd start applying for some jobs close to where I'm living (near family and friends), even some less than ideal jobs (a first). He promised me he didn't resent me because it was just plain necessary. We want to 2 kids, and we'll start trying when we're 30 It would have been nicer if he'd made the call, but it seems like a step in the right direction. Thanks again for all your help, feel free to give any further advice x 1
strongnrelaxed Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Why would you pressure him to marry? By the way, there are a number of female members of this community who would say that you do not exist. Women NEVER pressure men to get married. Please leave this guy. Do not ruin your life and his. Do the right thing and walk away if you are capable of a noble act of decency.
strongnrelaxed Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 He said I'd really scared him, he talked to his grandma... She told him that he needed to look after me and make some compromises and effort otherwise he would have a really lonely life. Gee wiz - even his grandma is in on the act!? Why would he be lonely? He can have girlfriends and friends and travel and no pressures and no worries about putting his ideas on you to organize for him. How is this a bad thing?
Author womaaaaaan Posted October 19, 2012 Author Posted October 19, 2012 wow strongnrelaxed I've read a few of your other posts, frequent suggestions to men not to get married ever, somehow suggests that you have somewhat of an axe to grind. Fair enough, you've obviously had some bad experiences in the past. He wasn't talking to his grandmother about marrying me, he was talking to her about the fact that i was about to leave him, she was responding to the fact that he would be lonely if he lost his soulmate. There are some people in your life that you would be lonely without, lay off my boyfriend's grandma!
TiredFamilyGuy Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 OP You seem to be candidly sorting the real issues out with him. Grand. I have a concern. It is that you are now creating a path of least resistance for the man, to drift down the course you are setting for him, without him ever really making a choice on his own and committing to the path he has chosen with all its compromises, and consciously forsaking the alternatives. I share your own concern that he might think that all he has to do, is propose. For entirely understandable reasons you have made a problem for yourself here: the more you schedule stuff in for him: holidays, reminder calls, the more passive he can be. OK, "putting the ball in his court" does involve being explicitly and repeatedly clear about what you want - people do tend not to hear what they don't want to hear. But after putting the ball in his court, don't go round the other side of the net and operate him like a puppet. One more thought. I would expect that a proposal would come with a wedding date attached, if not from him then from you. If indeed you are still minded to accept. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 I called him this morning, angry and upset that he hadn't at least tried to contact me yet. He said I'd really scared him, he talked to his grandma... She told him that he needed to look after me and make some compromises and effort otherwise he would have a really lonely life. I told him that he always knew I wanted a home, some pets, a garden, and his idea of our life didn't allow for any of that and it was unfair for him to assume I'd base my life around his career. He said he knew I was right, and that he'd start applying for some jobs close to where I'm living (near family and friends), even some less than ideal jobs (a first). He promised me he didn't resent me because it was just plain necessary. We want to 2 kids, and we'll start trying when we're 30 It would have been nicer if he'd made the call, but it seems like a step in the right direction. Thanks again for all your help, feel free to give any further advice x Womaaaaaan, I'd suggest you keep your LS account active because 5 years from now you'll be back posting that your Husband isn't committed to your marriage. Look, I understand why you want it for you and want it for him. And, because he cares about you, on some level he also probably wants this for you. But...he obviously doesn't want this for him. And he's tried every P/A avoidance maneuver and delaying tactic, including hiding from you now, to get his point across. Marrying so reluctant a suitor is a bad idea. Having kids with him is a worse idea. Marriage and family is hard enough when both partners are willingly and enthusiastically committed, even then your odds of doing so successfully are 50/50. I'd guess your odds are somewhat longer ... Mr. Lucky 1
Author womaaaaaan Posted October 21, 2012 Author Posted October 21, 2012 I understand with the wording I've used in my moment of frustration that it seems like i'm bullying my unwilling partner into lifting his game. Your right tired family guy, I'm definitely creating a path of least resistence for him. I hadn't intended calling him, but I caved. But atleast he went and got some advice from someone he trusted and worked it out for himself. He's working as a journalist and has his heart set on working on a paper, but there are only 4 jobs like that in the country at the moment. I want him to apply for them and try but I can't stay with him while he's living 15 hrs away in a shed (as he is currently), there are plenty of jobs he could apply for where I'm living, just not his 'dream' job... but he'll need to get more experience and play the waiting game anyway. I may well have scared him. But only in the sense that he never thought I'd leave him, we've talked about marriage for the last 4 years, he said he started thinking of his proposal the first day that he met me. He's always wanted a big family (4 kids) 2 is his compromise. he's just not a naturally realistic guy, I'm not bullyig him into marrying me, I just told him I was leaving him, because I was... he came up with the terms to make me stay... i.e. living in same city, starting to think about the practicalities of kids before I'm infertile. I'm an artist and he's a journalist, we have been moving frequently, I haven't lived near my family for 5 years (we've been living near his), we have never had much money... it's been the kind of lifestyle that is lovely and romantic but very tiring. I don't think I'm some sort of ball busting fish wife, I just don't intend on being the one to compromise the rest of my life and we needed to get ourselves on track for the things we both wanted or we would regret it. i honestly don't think I'll regret my current choices.
Squirter69 Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Why do you think you want to get married instead of staying where you are? Is it economic reasons or the sacrament? There are many purposes for marriage such as having kids, sharing resources, and serving a purpose in society. However, you can do all those things without an official marriage. Some good reasons for getting married are emotional security, companionship, and parenting. Those are still all things you can have without being married, and things that marriage will not give if they are not present before the marriage. Marrying him will not make him more emotionally involved or care for you more. Bad reasons for getting married is pressure from peers. So it would serve you well to not pressure him into marriage, but be open and honest with your communication. Tell him your concerns about his finances, distance, and emotional apathy. If he continues to be aloof, perhaps he is not the man you truly want to spend the rest of your life with. Good communication is the single greatest factor leading to a healthy relationship. You say you are honest with him, but perhaps pay attention to how you are being honest with him. Do not accuse him of anything (and I am not saying you are, just giving tips on what you shouldn't do), just tell him how you feel. Ask him how he feels about marriage, specifically with you. Tell him your concerns of his disorganization and how that may affect you and your hypothetical children. This way you can start an open dialogue and figure out these issues before planning to get married. If he does not respond to the communication, that may be your chance to move on and find someone who wants the same things as you.
strongnrelaxed Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 wow strongnrelaxed I've read a few of your other posts, frequent suggestions to men not to get married ever, somehow suggests that you have somewhat of an axe to grind. Fair enough, you've obviously had some bad experiences in the past. He wasn't talking to his grandmother about marrying me, he was talking to her about the fact that i was about to leave him, she was responding to the fact that he would be lonely if he lost his soulmate. There are some people in your life that you would be lonely without, lay off my boyfriend's grandma! I meant no disrespect to Grandma. I misunderstood your comment. What you said was that Grandma said he would lead a lonely life. I am quite certain that if he broke up with you that he would NOT be guaranteed a lonely life. You and he would find other people and life would go on. I do indeed have an axe to grind! It is just that women (often decent and well-intentioned) dish out this sort of advice to men and it is very bad and inaccurate. Who the hell said that getting married means eternal happiness? Who says that breaking up leads to a lonely life of misery? I call BS on this one - with all due respect to grammy of course. IMHO a marriage is a legal contract. A relationship is a loving bond between two people. I just prefer (nowadays) to keep those things separate.
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