LittleTiger Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 No this is wrong. People store fat differently. You can be at like 8% bodyfat and only have your top 2 abs showing if all your fat is stored in your stomach. Who mentioned abs showing? I thought we were talking about flabby pot bellies? Most men store fat on their stomach before it goes elsewhere but it is highly unlikely that a man with 8% body fat has a pot belly of any sort! If he does then it's probably his posture that needs correcting. If you believe you have 8% body fat and you still have a pot belly, you may need to get your fat % measured by a professional (scales are not that accurate).
silicone Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 The BMI isn't about masculinity, it's about a healthy weight range... People saying you are 'too fat' or 'too thin' really has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the BMI 'works' for you. I didn't say that BMI was related in any way to masculinity. The bottom line is, body fat doesn't necessarily promote nor demote masculinity. Those research showing that fat cells can convert testosterone into oestrogen or act as an inhibitor should probably note that not just does it take a lot of fat for this to happen, but the conversion rates are very miniscule.
Els Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 I am confused. I was responding to your statement of 'Well, I'm 20.7, so the BMI doesn't work for me'. And of course body fat (within a very wide range) doesn't actually biologically promote or decrease biological masculinity! The people here are talking about perceptions of masculine body forms vs feminine ones, methinks... I don't think anyone's mind even went to testosterone>estrogen conversion...
kaylan Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) I didn't say that BMI was related in any way to masculinity. The bottom line is, body fat doesn't necessarily promote nor demote masculinity. Those research showing that fat cells can convert testosterone into oestrogen or act as an inhibitor should probably note that not just does it take a lot of fat for this to happen, but the conversion rates are very miniscule. Estrogen is what makes women have the fat they do and store it in the places they do. And naturally women have more fat than males. So when a male has too much body fat, he will typically have a belly and moobs. So yes, fat on a man demotes masculinity, since belly and moobs can make a guy look like a pregnant woman. Edited October 18, 2012 by kaylan 1
silicone Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 I am confused. I was responding to your statement of 'Well, I'm 20.7, so the BMI doesn't work for me'. And of course body fat (within a very wide range) doesn't actually biologically promote or decrease biological masculinity! The people here are talking about perceptions of masculine body forms vs feminine ones, methinks... I don't think anyone's mind even went to testosterone>estrogen conversion... BMI doesn't work in my case to serve anything. A lower BMI doesn't indicate lower fat. Perceptions of what a "masculine" feature is appears to be a social concoction. Estrogen is what makes women have the fat they do and store it in the places they do. And naturally women have more fat than males. So when a male has too much body fat, he will typically have a belly and moobs. So yes, fat on a man demotes masculinity, since belly and moobs can make a guy look like a pregnant woman. You do realise that men have oestrogen flowing in them, right? Testosterone also dictates the general fat distribution in males. As I said above, your conception of masculinity has been defined by social perception. Guess what, I may have moobs and a bit of a flab, which isn't noticeable with clothes on, but that does not mean that I'm not masculine or have masculine features. If you're mistaking an obese man for a pregnant woman, you need to get your eyes checked, there are significant differences in body shape.
suladas Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Yes, they CAN be, but very, very few are. And many who are in the normal weight range can be unfit. Yet the "numbers' (BP, cholesterol, sugar levels, etc.) are much better overall when someone is not overweight or obese. That which may be sexy is not necessarily healthy. Some men like BBWs (Big Beautiful Women). I can't say that I do. Yet when my wife has extra weight, she retains her beauty IMO. She is an exception...at least in my eyes. Having said that, I know she feels much better when she is in the normal range and she does look better. According to that chart, i'm just barely into the obese category. Funny thing is all my stuff like BP, cholesterol is perfectly fine. I will say I could loose some weight, but the weight that the chart says is 55lbs to just get into the high part of the normal weight. I'd look so skinny and get weak if I only weighted 210lbs at 6'6". I'm at 265 now and my goal is probably around 220-230. The chart means nothing because it doesn't take into account peoples frames. I do agree about being in shape having nothing to do with weight. My brother is a firefighter, works out daily, yet at work in construction some days cannot keep up with me, same with other firefighters who work part-time. Complain about being sore, etc the next day or just get too tired to keep up. Just using it as an example as they are all in good shape generally speaking and I can run circles around all of them when it comes to construction work. I'm back into the gym to loose some pounds, but after that I doubt i'll be back in the gym much if at all. I much prefer to just do things that are exercise and are fun then just spending time exercising, plus my job is already a ton of exercise. With my broad shoulders, etc I already look like I work out anyways.
Els Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 According to that chart, i'm just barely into the obese category. Funny thing is all my stuff like BP, cholesterol is perfectly fine. I will say I could loose some weight, but the weight that the chart says is 55lbs to just get into the high part of the normal weight. I'd look so skinny and get weak if I only weighted 210lbs at 6'6". I'm at 265 now and my goal is probably around 220-230. The chart means nothing because it doesn't take into account peoples frames. The chart is made for the majority of the world's population, who are mostly (much) shorter than you. It is less accurate at extremes of height and weight, and I would say you are definitely a height extreme. If a 5'10" person with average muscle mass claims that his 'frame' accounts for his 265 lbs, he would be in denial most likely. In yours, if you are genuinely eating right and exercising well and all your physical examinations come back fine, you would be fine (and an exception).
kaylan Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 You do realise that men have oestrogen flowing in them, right? Testosterone also dictates the general fat distribution in males. No duh men and women both have the same hormones but in different amounts. Most folks know this Id like to think. What you seem to still be missing is that having more fat, and having fat distributed like a female, makes a guy less masculine. Chest fat isnt masculine...and a beer belly that looks like a pregnant stomach is not masculine. As I said above, your conception of masculinity has been defined by social perception. No it hasnt. Its been defined by nature. Men have LESS fat than women and in DIFFERENT places. Hence a guy with more fat, and in places that women tend to have more size....he will be less masculine. Guess what, I may have moobs and a bit of a flab, which isn't noticeable with clothes on, but that does not mean that I'm not masculine or have masculine features. If you're mistaking an obese man for a pregnant woman, you need to get your eyes checked, there are significant differences in body shape. I didnt say you werent masculine at all or didnt have masculine features. I said too much fat makes a guy LESS masculine and MORE feminine. Not that hes completely masculine or feminine. Im not confusing an obese man with a pregnant woman...im saying his build is more similar to hers than a fit guy with less body fat. Thus making the obese guy less masculine. Slow down and read with comprehension please.
silicone Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 No duh men and women both have the same hormones but in different amounts. Most folks know this Id like to think. Actually most don't, for some reason. The Y generation seems more aware however. What you seem to still be missing is that having more fat, and having fat distributed like a female, makes a guy less masculine. Chest fat isnt masculine...and a beer belly that looks like a pregnant stomach is not masculine. Males tend to store fat on their belly, females tend to store fat on their thighs and gluteus. Belly fat and chest fat as synonymous. No it hasnt. Its been defined by nature. Men have LESS fat than women and in DIFFERENT places. Hence a guy with more fat, and in places that women tend to have more size....he will be less masculine. If we're going to define masculinity in part by body fat, then aren't the most masculine men those with extremely lower body fat...., reaching to the essential body fat? We have a bit of a problem there, being skinny fat doesn't make you masculine. Being defined is somewhat closer to the balance of musculature and fat. I didnt say you werent masculine at all or didnt have masculine features. I said too much fat makes a guy LESS masculine and MORE feminine. Not that hes completely masculine or feminine. Im not confusing an obese man with a pregnant woman...im saying his build is more similar to hers than a fit guy with less body fat. Thus making the obese guy less masculine. Slow down and read with comprehension please. The problem is where we define "too much fat". What is "too much fat"? Is it thee average podgy? Obesity? You're saying too much fat, someone else is saying a pot belly / flab, there is no clear definition. Build id something which generally doesn't change, I assume you are referring to his body shape at that time?
kaylan Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Actually most don't, for some reason. The Y generation seems more aware however. O well, its not my concern what they know or dont know. Males tend to store fat on their belly, females tend to store fat on their thighs and gluteus. Belly fat and chest fat as synonymous. What trouble are you having understanding my point? WHAT ARE BREASTS IN WOMEN MADE OF??? Fatty tissue dude!. Hence a guy with moobs is less masculine and appears more feminine. Fatty tissue breasts are feminine, while muscle tissue breasts are masculine. And a belly guy will remind people of a pregnant belly. Whats hard to follow? If we're going to define masculinity in part by body fat, then aren't the most masculine men those with extremely lower body fat...., reaching to the essential body fat? We have a bit of a problem there, being skinny fat doesn't make you masculine. Being defined is somewhat closer to the balance of musculature and fat. You really are slow with this. I didnt say body fat is the sole determining factor of masculinity. I said a guy will be less masculine with more body fat. That doesnt mean a guy with little body fat is automatically the most masculine. He would be though if he had the muscle mass to go along with his lean physique of little body fat. No one said being skinny fat makes you masculine. Im saying having more fat than a male should have makes him LESS masculine and MORE feminine. Fat wont ever make a guy more masculine...ever. By sheer virtue of the fact that healthy males shouldnt have much body fat to begin with...and that when males have more than enough body fat, it stores in their stomach and sometimes in their chest...creating a prego belly and moobs in big cases. The problem is where we define "too much fat". What is "too much fat"? Is it thee average podgy? Obesity? You're saying too much fat, someone else is saying a pot belly / flab, there is no clear definition. Being overweight is having too much fat with regards to the average population. For me too much fat is when people start to jiggle...but then again, Im an athlete so I have different parameters. Personally for me, if I get close to 18% Id consider that way too much for me. Im around 13%...and I consider too much fat to be if I cant light flex and see my abs. Build id something which generally doesn't change, I assume you are referring to his body shape at that time?Build doesnt change, but it doesnt change the fact that a guys belly that protrudes far out past the chest reminds people of a pregnant lady.
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