Trouble Forgetting her sexual details with loser friend

[computerist]

Hi, I have a question:

 

In short, my gf of over a year kind of picked my friend first, so what, but I can't get the details of their exploits out of my head. Should I gfive up? Am I wrong ?

 

I was hanging in bars with my now gf and she picked my friend "David" of mine (and I didn't fight it cause I was interested in other person) so we became BFFs. Shee made her choice. They started hooking up a lot and as the bff I heard about the details, doggie style, bjs, yada yada. As bff she shares other stuff. OK whatever. Well my friend was kind of the neighborhood idiot growing up but they seem happy.

 

Well, I see this other side of him when I ask, lying about her and so forth; then her and somehow WE become an item. Everything was great a frist during the 3 month period but now I'm really really put off by the fact I know all of this. My friend "David" keeps trying to contact me, he now works where I work, and I try to be nice to him. But it's like constant reminders.

 

However when I think about how my GF and I met, even the town in general, etc. I think of them having sex Or her having sex etc in a car thanks to other stories. Just all of this on top of everything else really puts me in a bad mood sometimes.

 

I guess it's lame to admit this, I wish I could say I was perfect, that none of it matters, I've tried to be Jesus about it all but I feel like it's not working. I never wanted to compromise, and "David" of all people, of ALL PEOPLE!! AGGGGH!!

 

Thoughts?

[pteromom]

Maybe you shouldn't have dated her if you didn't agree with the partner she chose or all the things she did.

 

What would you want her to do about it? Go back in time and not date him, or go back and not tell you the details?

 

If you like her and want to keep dating her, you GOTTA let this go.

 

- Remember that sex isn't about comparison. Each person is different, and even if she had sex in a car with him, sex in a car with YOU is gonna be completely different.

 

- When you find one of those thoughts creeping in, you have to tell yourself STOP and remind yourself that mulling over something that can't be changed is pointless and a waste of energy.

 

- Focus on building memories with her, rather than focusing on what you imagine her memories with him are like.

[ParadeRain]

First of all, stop hating on David, he's one of the lads.

 

Lets face it mate... she's a slut.

 

Now you have 2 options...

 

Live with it.

 

Walk away from her and find somebody else.

 

It's really simple.

Edited October 20, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[River Rain]

Here's the "easier said than done" answer: What happened before your relationship with her is none of your business. But...he was your friend, you heard too much...if you can't find a way to accept that she was sexual with her ex, then I'm afraid it probably won't work out between you two right? Instead of focusing on what she did with him, why not build a stronger sexual bond with her?

[computerist]

Maybe you shouldn't have dated her if you didn't agree with the partner she chose or all the things she did.

 

What would you want her to do about it? Go back in time and not date him, or go back and not tell you the details?

 

If you like her and want to keep dating her, you GOTTA let this go.

 

- Remember that sex isn't about comparison. Each person is different, and even if she had sex in a car with him, sex in a car with YOU is gonna be completely different.

 

- When you find one of those thoughts creeping in, you have to tell yourself STOP and remind yourself that mulling over something that can't be changed is pointless and a waste of energy.

 

- Focus on building memories with her, rather than focusing on what you imagine her memories with him are like.

 

Well when I started dating her, it didn't seem like any of this mattered, and it didn't, we just went with it. He actually was the only one kind of pissed about it. However when we got deeply involved in a serious relationship I started to look at it differently. It creeped in with a vengence. I'm having a hard time because of the details honestly. I wish I was never told anything. Even at one point overly sexual commentary on TV/movies bothered me, I don't know why but it feels wrong. Your point about car sex with person X or person Y isn't going to be all THAT different; well maybe, we haven't done it.

 

Let me just put it in a perspective for people to understand where I'm coming from. If you were given a diamond wedding ring would you honestly believe that it didn't matter where it came from? So if the fiance' gave it to you after asking someone else or it was a divorce ring, would you not consider that at all? Would you just close your eyes and say "I'm not that person so it's still special". ? I'm asking. I feel like I'm compromising on some level.

[computerist]

 

First of all, stop hating on David, he's one of the lads.

 

Lets face it mate... she's a slut.

 

Now you have 2 options...

 

Live with it.

 

Walk away from her and find somebody else.

 

It's really simple.

 

Firstly, I am not angry with him at all, if anything he may be a little pissed about me not honoring Bros b4 hoes. I was the one that got them together btw. Plus, I don't think it's that easy to just walk away from a serious relationship, I want to know I'm not acting on knee jerk emotion. The old me would love them and leave them.

Edited October 20, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote

[computerist]

Here's the "easier said than done" answer: What happened before your relationship with her is none of your business. But...he was your friend, you heard too much...if you can't find a way to accept that she was sexual with her ex, then I'm afraid it probably won't work out between you two right? Instead of focusing on what she did with him, why not build a stronger sexual bond with her?

 

It's not that I WANT to think about these things, it's not that I try, things trigger it and I feel miserable at times. He messages me etc etc.. Also, it would be fine to think "none of my business" but business keeps coming up, I get no breathing room, and I feel it's unfair that I have to deal with it. She doesn't. I feel like telling her at times that she made her choice so she can live with it.

[ParadeRain]

Firstly, I am not angry with him at all, if anything he may be a little pissed about me not honoring Bros b4 hoes. I was the one that got them together btw. Plus, I don't think it's that easy to just walk away from a serious relationship, I want to know I'm not acting on knee jerk emotion. The old me would love them and leave them.

 

You're not acting on knee jerk emotion, the feeling is sickening, kissing her lovingly and then it comes into your head... it's sickening, it's a real feeling and it's not fair on YOU.

 

But there is NOBODY on earth that can help you with this situation, it is entirely 100% down to you, are you going to accept it or not...

 

If you are going to accept it, then accept it and MOVE ON from it, if not then you're going to have to end it.

 

It really is simple.

[todreaminblue]

Hi, I have a question:

 

In short, my gf of over a year kind of picked my friend first, so what, but I can't get the details of their exploits out of my head. Should I gfive up? Am I wrong ?

 

I was hanging in bars with my now gf and she picked my friend "David" of mine (and I didn't fight it cause I was interested in other person) so we became BFFs. Shee made her choice. They started hooking up a lot and as the bff I heard about the details, doggie style, bjs, yada yada. As bff she shares other stuff. OK whatever. Well my friend was kind of the neighborhood idiot growing up but they seem happy.

 

Well, I see this other side of him when I ask, lying about her and so forth; then her and somehow WE become an item. Everything was great a frist during the 3 month period but now I'm really really put off by the fact I know all of this. My friend "David" keeps trying to contact me, he now works where I work, and I try to be nice to him. But it's like constant reminders.

 

However when I think about how my GF and I met, even the town in general, etc. I think of them having sex Or her having sex etc in a car thanks to other stories. Just all of this on top of everything else really puts me in a bad mood sometimes.

 

I guess it's lame to admit this, I wish I could say I was perfect, that none of it matters, I've tried to be Jesus about it all but I feel like it's not working. I never wanted to compromise, and "David" of all people, of ALL PEOPLE!! AGGGGH!!

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I agree with pteromom......make you own memories and concentrate on them if she is adventurous then she will be adventurous with you.....why are you living in the past?.....make a future.....of your own hot memories....love is what you make it...not what a past relationship makes it....especially in regards to making love between a unique couple which is you and your girlfriend....deb

[River Rain]

It's not that I WANT to think about these things, it's not that I try, things trigger it and I feel miserable at times. He messages me etc etc.. Also, it would be fine to think "none of my business" but business keeps coming up, I get no breathing room, and I feel it's unfair that I have to deal with it. She doesn't. I feel like telling her at times that she made her choice so she can live with it.

 

That's why I said it's easier said than done right? So...if things just trigger you into feeling miserable, then maybe that's your answer. You shouldn't feel miserable in a loving relationship. But just remember, it's not her fault that she had someone before you. If you feel like you can't handle it, then it's best to end it, but not in a bitter way, that'll make you feel bad in the long run.

[ParadeRain]

This is a mans situation, something women will never understand so you can't value their answers, they think they can be sluts and that should be accepted by their next partner no questions asked...

 

When the proof is in the pudding, you're feeling it RIGHT NOW, it can't be accepted no questions asked because it's playing with your feelings.

 

You have to ask yourself, can I accept this and move on from it?

 

If you can then do, if you can't then don't, but never let any women tell you that you SHOULD.

 

It's a 50/50 choice, there is no right or wrong answer.

Edited October 20, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[computerist]

You're not acting on knee jerk emotion, the feeling is sickening, kissing her lovingly and then it comes into your head... it's sickening, it's a real feeling and it's not fair on YOU.

 

But there is NOBODY on earth that can help you with this situation, it is entirely 100% down to you, are you going to accept it or not...

 

If you are going to accept it, then accept it and MOVE ON from it, if not then you're going to have to end it.

 

It really is simple.

 

One thing that I should have added was that she was a bit of a bragger about it, a lot of people knew about that stuff because of where she worked, I'm not calling her a slut, I don't think she was going to crazy. It's just I have to drive past these places, I have to drive past the catering hall, or the parking spot, or parking lot. I feel like I was robbed of things, like when people ask me where we met I don't get warm fuzzies, maybe I should but I get reminded of how things played out. Sigh, thanks guys but I think I'm more confused...

[computerist]

I agree with pteromom......make you own memories and concentrate on them if she is adventurous then she will be adventurous with you.....why are you living in the past?.....make a future.....of your own hot memories....love is what you make it...not what a past relationship makes it....especially in regards to making love between a unique couple which is you and your girlfriend....deb

 

Read my other posts, it's not just that it's said and done.... I have to relive it.

[ascendotum]

Well what happened before your relationship with her is none of your business, technically, but emotionally it still can play a part in the mind of the current guy. If she slept around a lot or if she dated a bunch of player douchebags or losers, plenty of guys will make a judgement about her, and I think it says something about her character. It does matter to me even if the woman says it doesn't count anymore, the past is the past.

 

In this case, I don't get why someone is branding her a slut, given the discussion only involves her sleeping with 1 other guy. I agree the OP should not hate on this ex of hers. He did nothing wrong. As for her doing doggie style, bjs, etc with him...whoopee do, that's what bf/gf do. Having sex is normal. Get over it. You are only dealing here with one guy from her past, not dozens of guys or jerks who treated her as a f***toy. The only thing that makes it an issue with you is that this guy was your friend, and he sexed her up before you. A lot of guys will have a hang up over their friend banging their girl. You should have considered this early on, and decided if you handle it or not before getting settled into the relationship.

 

I think ptermom gave you good advice, but If this issue is swirling around your head at 4 mth mark, I don't think its going to just go away. People here telling you not to dwell on it is easier said than done. If she is a wonderful gf to you and you are you happy in the relationship otherwise, its a shame you can't deal with this (its your problem exclusively). She has done nothing wrong, except maybe had poor choice in past guy she associate with (you call him an idiot but he was also your friend as well as her bf). Deal with it or if you can find another girl as good as her without too much trouble, then get it over with and breakup.

[InJest]

You don't have to relive it. You choose to relive it, whether you want to accept that fact or not. You obviously can't get over it, so it's time to end this.

[computerist]

You don't have to relive it. You choose to relive it, whether you want to accept that fact or not. You obviously can't get over it, so it's time to end this.

 

The problem is that she brought things into the relationship and I'm being forced to re live it. I findyour response a little pointed and nasty. So what would u do?

[computerist]

I feel like nobody is really reading my posts; it's the fact that I don't need to deal with this and I was told explicit details about someone who honestly is kind of a loser and the subsequently Her actions brought the past forward. I think what I'm trying to decide is if it's worth my trouble. I guess that is really the only advice I'm getting here that is good. I feel like everyone is projecting there own experiences opposed to thinking abstractly about this unique situation. I'm not a prude, I have seen plenty and done plenty. I done have an issue with my gf having a sexual history , just don't have all the details shared with me and your job. We can certainly judge actions, and should, on top of it she knew what risk she took with me after dating mycfriend. To those who say what is she supposed to do now or you knew that going in have to consider that we don't know how are emotions are going to grab us, for better or worse, lookcat all of the irrational posts on these forums...

Edited October 17, 2012 by computerist

[computerist]

Regarding this;

 

"I think ptermom gave you good advice, but If this issue is swirling around your head at 4 mth mark, I don't think its going to just go away. People here telling you not to dwell on it is easier said than done. If she is a wonderful gf to you and you are you happy in the relationship otherwise, its a shame you can't deal with this (its your problem exclusively). She has done nothing wrong, except maybe had poor choice in past guy she associate with (you call him an idiot but he was also your friend as well as her bf). Deal with it or if you can find another girl as good as her without too much trouble, then get it over with and breakup."

 

You may be right , she hasn't done anything wrong but she made more than. A few bad choices by dating the other guy she chose an action that may have consequences, you act like I'm punishing her and it's my issue, she also played a role, perhaps made a poor choice which I am trying to overlook in vain..

[ja123]

We all have a past, and we've all done the dirty with someone else before our current relationships.

 

Although, I can acknowledge this, I still don't want details from a BF's past, as I prefer to live in the present.

 

It also makes me wonder why some people feel compelled to share their pasts with their SO. Is it an ego trip for them?

 

In your case, it sounds like she shared the details before you started dating.

 

Probably, at the beginning, it didn't bother you so much because you weren't that serious about her. But now you are becoming serious about her, and it's bothersome.

 

You're obviously trying to work through your own thoughts and to grow as a person by giving it a shot all the same, and that's commendable*; however, if it bothers you to the extent you've been describing, then don't beat yourself up about it.

 

Just break up with her and move on. You don't have to tell her "why", just say that you don't see being in an LTR with her or something.

 

* I like that you don't just give her the blanket label of "slut". It shows that you're mature.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Well I'm not sure what advice you are seeking here computerist, you kind of made your bed...now you're laying in it.

 

You befriended a girl that was dating your friend, you were sitting there willing to hear all the nasty details...for bob sakes why? did you really want to hear about your friend boinking this girl? I mean wtf seriously, who does that?

 

So were you just using the friend angle and developed feelings for her but sat around waiting for her to leave your dork friend? Women don't know who are dorks or cool guys, or good guys from bad guys etc...they just see men and they make up their own little image in their heads based on emotions...as men we see through the man to what he he's where as women see what it is that they see, which could be be completely different from the reality...so are you jealous or upset she messed around with this guy? does it kind of devalue what you have together because she'd go with this guy who you don't think highly of?

 

I think you've got some issues here yourself, for even putting yourself in this situation...there's no way I'd want to sit around and listen to the crap you heard about another guy doing X to her, let alone from your friend! Then you decide you're going to mess around with this girl and find yourself catching feelings, so now you wish you could kind of go back and change things or be all noble and not judge her for this?

 

Women have dirt on them just like guys do, I'm not sure what else you expected...even If you dated another girl, guess what? she could have been bent over the middle of a freeway for all you know by some guy twice her age that's got a wife and kids sitting at home while he pretends he's some gigolo who makes her think he's going to leave it all for her, only to not in the end...I mean it's basically a reality tv show, peoples pasts, and the less you know the better...there's no point in knowing that information and so now you pretty much put yourself in the worst kind because instead of dating some girl you know nothing about, you have all this crap in your head because you know what she done did.

 

But guess what? everyone makes pretty stupid decisions at one time or another, what are you going to accomplish by holding this against her...you think any other girl makes great decisions in her romantic life? ha! good luck to you on that one man, because the reality is the next girl could be better, or worse, or just the same...and you'll never really know for sure, and you shouldn't even ask...so this is a lesson to you...but it's normal, this is a young guy lesson.

 

You need to sit in front of the mirror and ask yourself If you can deal with this, knowing what you know already...and that's it, It's that simple..

 

If its No, you walk away and tell her that this not working out for you and that you need to move on...don't beat her up over it and make her feel all horrible and bad because you put yourself in this situation...man up and take responsibility for your actions and feelings/thoughts instead of blaming her like she even knew she would date you afterwards, you were probably someone she could talk to and she didn't realize it would bite her in the @ss later on.

 

IF It's a yes, I can work this out. Then communicate how you feel to her, share your thoughts and emotions without crucifying her...It's ok to be hurt and feel threatened and even jealous/bitter...those are normal human emotions when he have feelings for someone and don't want to think that they've shared all these experiences with someone else...let alone someone you don't respect...but that's not your role to play, you're not her god or ruler here, you're just here to build beyond what you and this other guy had..and guess what? If you did things right she wouldn't even be caring or thinking about this guy ever again, she'll move on and put that behind her and you need to be able to do the same.

 

So which is it...walk away because you know it's too much for you to realistically deal with and in the end you know you won't forget or forgive her for it...no one says you have to, no one is forcing you...If you can't do it you, you can't do it...be honest to her and yourself though.

 

Or stay and let these emotions of resentment and bitterness/jealousy be viewed in a different light and stop forcing yourself to stick in that mindset, let yourself move on from that and start looking forward instead of backwards.

 

It's up to you, but think real hard about it...or you're going to waste your time and hers, and for what? because in the end you were never going to get over this anyway...you can try to salvage things and be friends at this point possibly, I think she will respect you being honest much more than you punishing her and essentially passive aggressively abusing her throughout the relationship for something she has done in her past without the thought of you in her mind.

[computerist]

Well I'm not sure what advice you are seeking here computerist, you kind of made your bed...now you're laying in it.

 

You befriended a girl that was dating your friend, you were sitting there willing to hear all the nasty details...for bob sakes why? did you really want to hear about your friend boinking this girl? I mean wtf seriously, who does that?

 

I think you are painting a very different picture here; I wasn't looking to date her, we also didn't sit on the phone and talk about our feelings, haven't you ever thought something like "she was the one that got away" or "now after seeing that horrible thing on TV or in reality I can't get it out of my head". It wasn't intentional! Perhaps unless you have been through it you may not understand the nuance.

 

I was not exactly some loser guy trying to leach off of my stud friend. I make twice the money he does, I'm better looking, and I was driving a premium sports car at the time. Oh and I have a small yacht. No that doesn't make me awesome but I also think I had a good personality and I was dating a lot of women to confirm that I wasn't exactly a bottom feeder.

 

So were you just using the friend angle and developed feelings for her but sat around waiting for her to leave your dork friend?

 

NO! I had a thing where I always had a female BFF, she became it as a joke but took it too far because she should have considered that we could have gotten together. For example, I didn't tell her about the details of all the women I slept with.

 

does it kind of devalue what you have together because she'd go with this guy who you don't think highly of?

YES. That is my problem. PLUS he won't go away. He's now even working where I work, it makes me feel like lesser of a person.

 

 

But guess what? everyone makes pretty stupid decisions at one time or another, what are you going to accomplish by holding this against her...you think any other girl makes great decisions in her romantic life? ha! good luck to you on that one man, because the reality is the next girl could be better, or worse, or just the same...and you'll never really know for sure, and you shouldn't even ask...so this is a lesson to you...but it's normal, this is a young guy lesson.

 

You need to sit in front of the mirror and ask yourself If you can deal with this, knowing what you know already...and that's it, It's that simple..

Honestly you are VERY JUDGEY and not overly helpful. You act as if I'm TRYING to have these feelings or that I walked into it fully congnizant of the consequences, you are others seem to be flat out acting as if it's my fault. All actions have consequences and to be honest I wasn't going to date her but things just happened. I'm sure you can relate to that, it's kind of how the world goes around. I have been dealing with this for months and months. I am concerned that it will weigh into my actions with her in the future. I'm worried that I'm investing too much emotional stuff into a relationship. I don't need this, I dont' care if I end up with someone or not. Thank you for telling me that I need to stare into the mirror and think about how awful I am to this poor girl that just wants to be loved.

 

 

If its No, you walk away and tell her that this not working out for you and that you need to move on...don't beat her up over it and make her feel all horrible and bad because you put yourself in this situation...man up and take responsibility for your actions and feelings/thoughts instead of blaming her like she even knew she would date you afterwards, you were probably someone she could talk to and she didn't realize it would bite her in the @ss later on.

I dont' agree. I think being honest is the more appropriate thing to do instead of pretending she has some kind of vague problem. She likes to kind of joke about that thing, it's actually why I theorize she has had problems in the past, insecure, talks a big game, and the guys get interested in one thing. In her business it's like that, she was following suit. Sorry if I have a problem with this I am just going to tell her. And again my issue is that it keeps coming up. My friend keeps contacting me, I have other things that remind me of this.

 

I'm a little disappointed in some of your responses because you really tried to paint the wrong picture of me and the situation, but it's the Internet so it was lost in translation and I'm sure not your fault. I thank you for taking the time to help with with my big life decision. I really care about her, that is why it is so hard and I have been working so hard to try to move on. Then I get a text from him or drive past the park that she hooked up in or think about how we met and so forth and memories sometimes flood in so strongly it hurts. I guess I'm a pussy, but it's the truth.

[Michal2012]

I don't think that you are wrong in this matter.

[computerist]

We all have a past, and we've all done the dirty with someone else before our current relationships.

 

Although, I can acknowledge this, I still don't want details from a BF's past, as I prefer to live in the present.

 

It also makes me wonder why some people feel compelled to share their pasts with their SO. Is it an ego trip for them?

 

In your case, it sounds like she shared the details before you started dating.

 

Probably, at the beginning, it didn't bother you so much because you weren't that serious about her. But now you are becoming serious about her, and it's bothersome.

 

You're obviously trying to work through your own thoughts and to grow as a person by giving it a shot all the same, and that's commendable*; however, if it bothers you to the extent you've been describing, then don't beat yourself up about it.

 

Just break up with her and move on. You don't have to tell her "why", just say that you don't see being in an LTR with her or something.

 

* I like that you don't just give her the blanket label of "slut". It shows that you're mature.

 

Thank you for the response, this was very helpful and kindly. She's not a slut, and I don't judge people's past believe it or not LOL, my ex was in the Navy in Italy. She really partied it up over there. My ex before that was a clubber party girl for a while. However, what was different was they never gave me the visual details to recall nor did it hit this close to home. This guy is a nice guy (just kind of someone I would not want to be), I actually thought that if she had interest in him I would try to get them together. I feel like it bit me in the ass for being the nice guy. He ended up not really knowing what he wanted, he wanted to wait a bit and I ended up moving in on it, not deliberately. Now he's probably thinking that I totally threw him under the bus which makes me feel bad. It's a big complicated mess, and if I didn't have the visual stories to think about it would have been much better. I guess I have a lower tolerance of this than other people here. I wonder if any of the guys telling me to "get over it" would be OK if their girlfriend/wife told them something out of the blue. Though I knew going in, I had NO idea how it would have felt like after we got so serious....

 

PS> I feel like I should be honest, not tell her I don't want a LTR. Is the point of telling her a white lie so she doesn't feel worse ?

Edited October 17, 2012 by computerist

[InJest]

The problem is that she brought things into the relationship and I'm being forced to re live it.

 

In your situation, I would be completely fine, because I'm able to leave the past in the past. You clearly are not, so you should end this and stop torturing yourself and wasting both of your time. You are punishing this girl for your own insecurity. It's unfair. It's clear you can't deal with it, so you should stop beating around the bush and end it with her.

Edited October 20, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Adherance to topic and civility and respect

[Quiet Storm]

Pride is very important to most men. You take pride in your accomplishments, your home, your job, your car. You want to take pride in your woman, too.

 

Regardless of whether it's wrong or right, these details are preventing you from being proud of her. You want to feel like your girl is special. You feel that you deserve the best, and these details have tarnished your view of her. It also threatens your ego because other people know. You don't want to be judged for your choice in a woman. You want to be proud, not ashamed of her. These are pretty normal feelings for a guy in your position to have.

 

Most of us do judge people based on their actions, which is perfectly reasonable. It's not cool to judge based on race, religion, etc. but I think it's smart to judge actions. It's a way to keep people with shady characters out of our lives. I'm not saying she has a shady character, but she obviously has done some things that bother you. You have a right to set whatever standards you want in a relationship. Some may see your standards as unreasonable, but you are the one that has to live with your choices and deal with the company you keep, so what other people think is redundant.

 

There are ways to control your thoughts. For example, one trick is to immediately imagine a stop sign as soon as you begin to think about what she's done. Eventually, after many times, you may be able to train your brain to avoid that thought altogether. So if you love her and want to continue the relationship, there are steps you can take to gain more control over your thoughts and emotions.

 

However, it sounds to me like you feel as if you settled. Regardless of how much you like her, there is this nagging feeling that is keeping you from being fully invested in the relationship.

 

You can't unring the bell. There are no Men In Black tools that will make you forget everything you heard. What she did is not going to change. If you can't handle it, staying with her is only prolonging the inevitable and isn't fair to her. Although you do have a right to judge her, she also has a right to be upset or hurt by your judgement. You should let her go so that she can find someone that will not judge her in this way.