Els Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Wow, SD! For a moment, I thought someone hacked your acct! I know, that was my thought too! That Meeks or someone had finally gotten fed up and decided to do that.
silicone Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 This notion of not taking things, eng stature into account doesn't work in the long term, granted it should not be focused on, but ignoring it will simply. It do you any good.
kaylan Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 It's not because the guy is short or ugly or doesn't approach random girls or doesn't have high confidence etc. It's because he doesn't know what he should be doing or how to do it. Send an average guy who happens to do badly with women, out with a few single girls, and all he'd probably do is make a couple new friends. He would have no idea how to interact or talk to them properly in a way that makes them see him as a man. Put a guy who knows how to talk to girls in the same situation, and he'd most likely end up hooking up with at least one of the girls, if not make future plans at least. It doesn't matter if he's uglier, shorter, poorer than the first guy. All that matters is knowing what to do. I somewhat agree but not completely. If a girl is well enough attracted to a guy, trust me that some of these women will make the moves themselves and help make things happen. 1
O'farrell Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Yes it took me many many attempts to finally get this one right. I never knew how to do it. You can't be scared to admit you want sex. And shebanbang!
Author somedude81 Posted October 16, 2012 Author Posted October 16, 2012 Topically, having 'done well' with women for decades, as fellow humans and dear friends, what separates the 'winners' from the 'losers' in romance is perceived attractiveness amongst the target demographic. To put it in business terms, one must be or become adept with 'marketing romance'. A lousy salesperson, even with a stellar product, is going to return crickets. The 'chunky, hairly dude' markets aspects of himself which are attractive and minimizes the attention paid to his chunkiness and hairyness as disincentives to loin stirring. If he were to resist being proactive and let nature take its course, then first appearances would likely run counter to his objectives. Same visual, different impression. Human nature is an interesting dynamic. Just improve yourself in every way you can Actually what I've come to realize and what carhill said about marking, lousy sales person, great product; basically means that self-improvement is pointless. The whole, "improve yourself in every way" thing, waste of time. Sure it's not going to hurt, but it won't get anybody results just because things were improved. In other words, don't really bother trying to improve the product, just get better at selling it. The most important thing in selling is convincing the other person that the product is great. The easiest way to do that is for you yourself to believe that it's great. When you know it's a crappy product, then you have to convince the other person that you think it's great, even though you know it's a POS. 2
ThaWholigan Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Actually what I've come to realize and what carhill said about marking, lousy sales person, great product; basically means that self-improvement is pointless. The whole, "improve yourself in every way" thing, waste of time. Sure it's not going to hurt, but it won't get anybody results just because things were improved. In other words, don't really bother trying to improve the product, just get better at selling it. The most important thing in selling is convincing the other person that the product is great. The easiest way to do that is for you yourself to believe that it's great. When you know it's a crappy product, then you have to convince the other person that you think it's great, even though you know it's a POS. Meh, I would just do both. Because then you have a better product to sell 4
Els Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 There is good reason that most successful businesses do BOTH. It is exceedingly rare that a product sells well by marketing alone, if it is a crappy product. There will always be some inherent weaknesses in the product, but most companies focus on making their product better at the same time as marketing it. 4
mtnbiker Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 SomeDude...I was with you until the last post. Nothing but good can come from bettering yourself. Regardless of more success with women or not. At least in my opinion. 1
ThaWholigan Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 There is good reason that most successful businesses do BOTH. It is exceedingly rare that a product sells well by marketing alone, if it is a crappy product. There will always be some inherent weaknesses in the product, but most companies focus on making their product better at the same time as marketing it. You gotta think of it like Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee's martial art. Look up Jeet Kune Do and you will understand
El Brujo Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 It's not because the guy is short or ugly or doesn't approach random girls or doesn't have high confidence etc. It's because he doesn't know what he should be doing or how to do it. Send an average guy who happens to do badly with women, out with a few single girls, and all he'd probably do is make a couple new friends. He would have no idea how to interact or talk to them properly in a way that makes them see him as a man. Put a guy who knows how to talk to girls in the same situation, and he'd most likely end up hooking up with at least one of the girls, if not make future plans at least. It doesn't matter if he's uglier, shorter, poorer than the first guy. All that matters is knowing what to do. You tell 'em, Fonz.
carhill Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Regarding marketing and products, one might wish to review the 'meat' of the product and the marketing of Extenze, only one infinitesimal tip of the gigantic successful marketing of a non-efficacious/flawed/deceptive/etc, etc. product. In the dating/romance arena, PUA (the 'product') is a great example that could be discussed. Granted, less than stellar marketing of a poor product is nearly always doomed to failure but those stellar products which languish un-shouted about can and often do face a similar life on a dusty shelf somewhere. Writing this paragraph caused me to think of one, a little item that became a standard part of nearly anyone's computing experience. It even had a cute name, but until a couple of young guys, one a marketing genius, stole it and gave it life, it was essentially nothing. It was the computer 'mouse'. 1
xxoo Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I agree that basically anyone can get a woman, with the right marketing. But to attract the most women, marketing and product are both important. Since the marketing aspect is new ground for you, focusing on that part is improving your product. It's an improvement over whining and feeling hopeless! 1
Revolver Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Any man can talk to a woman and of course make friends but to get to her to see in you in a romantic light is a whole other ball game and I think that's the main problem most men have.
yongyong Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 You sounded like you discovered something everyone was missing and was preaching about it. now you look like you are going back to where you were 'f-ck self-improvement, I need to know how to talk....how to talk!!' Even crappy PUA books people hate, don't talk about this. they always start with self-improvement in looks, jobs, personality, hobbies, friends etc Actually what I've come to realize and what carhill said about marking, lousy sales person, great product; basically means that self-improvement is pointless. The whole, "improve yourself in every way" thing, waste of time. Sure it's not going to hurt, but it won't get anybody results just because things were improved. In other words, don't really bother trying to improve the product, just get better at selling it. The most important thing in selling is convincing the other person that the product is great. The easiest way to do that is for you yourself to believe that it's great. When you know it's a crappy product, then you have to convince the other person that you think it's great, even though you know it's a POS.
Meeks7 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I know, that was my thought too! That Meeks or someone had finally gotten fed up and decided to do that. LMAO. SomeDude, listen to the good folks here. Everyone was with you... up until your last post. As we have discussed many times before, you cannot skip steps and take massive shortcuts and hope to realistically be "successful." You got to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty. Give a genuine effort. Persist. Don't just attend a function casually one time, go home and say "Well, I tried. Did the best I could... but I won't come back to that event/thing/club ever again. Not for me." This is how guys get in the biggest ruts of their life. They give up too easily, and they never stick challenges out. Don't be lazy and look to stay right where you are but only focusing on how to better sell yourself. Improve the product, and sell it better. The two go hand-in-hand. Beth and I wish you all the best. Can't take shortcuts though... 3
2.50 a gallon Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 somedude Congrats The first step is learning how to talk to a woman, how to get her into a conversation. You can practise by talking to the check out girls where ever you shop. They all have some banter, did you find everything OK, or how's your day. Ad lib, mention how you like this fall weather, and how it makes you want to be a kid again and go jump in a pile of leaves. It doesn't always work, but in many cases over time they begin to see you as a person, rather as a customer, and sometimes begin to open up about their lives, which gives you more to talk about. The idea is to practise talking to women and to begin to build up your confidence I started our as a tongue tied teenager, but over the years, I began to see women as just another person, and that in turn helped me in my dating life. At the sametime you are learning to talk to women, teach yourself how to listen, truly listen to what they have to say. 2
JamesM Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 The idea is to practise talking to women and to begin to build up your confidence I started our as a tongue tied teenager, but over the years, I began to see women as just another person, and that in turn helped me in my dating life. At the same time you are learning to talk to women, teach yourself how to listen, truly listen to what they have to say. THIS. The problem with many unlucky men today is that they try to score instead of having fun. Looking at women as people and not as sex objects will make a huge difference. Women like a man who can laugh, love and listen. Show compassion and enthusiasm about what you enjoy and show respect and enjoyment in what she says. Instead of looking at her body, look at her heart. 3
irc333 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 It's because he doesn't know what he should be doing or how to do it. Right, even if he DOES take some advice, and tries to use it. Well, guess what, EVERY woman is different and it might not work either. To draw an analogy, it's like trying to figure out the frequency for the Shield Harmonics to penetrate the USS Enterprises shields. Or WACK-A-MOLE.
irc333 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 With me, I 'd go out and be Friendzoned. Granted these ladies would have fun with me, be comfortable around me, but nothing enough of them being attracted to me in a way they would DATE me. It's fine that I "get a long with women" on a comfortable level, but if I make any kind of romantic indicator....then they're repulsed by the idea. Sure, they can be my friend, hang out with me, spend time with me, go out dancing with the man they FZ'ed....but date him? Hmmmmm I somewhat agree but not completely. If a girl is well enough attracted to a guy, trust me that some of these women will make the moves themselves and help make things happen.
carhill Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Herding cats with a result-based methodology. 2
SteveC80 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I think the problem is for guys who cant get women is that its not a simple thing as to them saying the wrong thing but just their whole aura or persona might turn women off Plus different women respond to different things so i dont agree that rejection is always a learning tool because something may work on one women and not another,its not a mathematical formula that the same thing will work for every women Looks wise no its not all about looks but its at least half the equation,sure theyres ladies out there who arent hung up on looks much but not many
xxoo Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Women like a man who can laugh, love and listen. Show compassion and enthusiasm about what you enjoy and show respect and enjoyment in what she says. Instead of looking at her body, look at her heart. Yes, but we still want him to be a man. Don't be afraid to be a man. You are attracted to her, as a man. Express it! Make it clear that you have romantic interests, not just friendship. 2
carhill Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Though perhaps personal rather than widely applicable, I did 'poorly' for a number of years in my 20's due to inadequately investigating the woman's relationship/marital status, thus investing time and expression of romantic intent towards inappropriate (in the final analysis) partners. After this period, I would say 'poorly' stemmed from inadequate expression of clear romantic intent while I was, hence, investigating more thoroughly such matters of importance. Both of those issues were my responsibility. Once resolved, dating success improved. Around here, the hardest part is meeting truly single and available women. I gave up on truly single but drew the line at legally married. Such are the challenges of living where there are more men than women, demographically. Generally, though, I think that clear communication of romantic interest is right up there as a major reason some men do poorly with women. Communication in words and actions that the lady perceives as romantic intent. Perception rules.
MrCastle Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 There are many reasons men aren't successful with women. You have to do an introspective analysis and figure out what it is. Can you be more presentable? In terms of your physical appearance? Are you a negative person? That negative energy shows whether you're aware of it or not. Are you shy? Are you scared to make moves? Are you too nice? Do you let women walk all over you? Is your social circle limited? Do you need to expand it? 1
Author somedude81 Posted October 16, 2012 Author Posted October 16, 2012 I somewhat agree but not completely. If a girl is well enough attracted to a guy, trust me that some of these women will make the moves themselves and help make things happen. My focus for this thread is not guys that women hit on, it's guys that do poorly with women. I've never had a girl make the moves and don't expect it to happen. Meh, I would just do both. Because then you have a better product to sell Of course doing both is good. My point was that putting in a lot of focus into self-improvement will not get anybody very far. Actually it's most important if one has a bad product and they want to make it into something decent. Once you already have a decent product, it's very hard to make it great. For example, I could put a ton of work into my body, lose the weight, get more muscle, yet hardly anybody would notice the change. Though I certainly would and that's probably the most important thing. Any man can talk to a woman and of course make friends but to get to her to see in you in a romantic light is a whole other ball game and I think that's the main problem most men have. Yup, that's pretty much what I said in the first post. Making friends isn't the hard part and it isn't related to being able to date women. You sounded like you discovered something everyone was missing and was preaching about it. now you look like you are going back to where you were Preaching? No. I was mostly making an observation. Mainly this was for myself as I have done poorly with women forever and never really understood why. I was blaming the wrong things. 1
Recommended Posts