SecretFlower Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 I had dinner (again) with my ex and we have established some ground rules. I've definitely broken NC and I have no intention of going back to NC which I've discussed with my therapist and we had a conversation tonight about what we expect from one another. 1. We both are able to see other people -- at least for right now. - Because we, and I mean the both of us, have decided that we want to form a friendship outside of a romantic relationship we think we should both have the opportunity to see other people. 2. If we (and I mean he) becomes involved with someone else there WILL be boundaries. - I refuse to be his OW again. And, I will not participate in another affair. 3. If someone wants to discuss his or her ex they can without discomfort. - I've found it very difficult to discuss my divorce with my ex, as he gets upset and he's found it difficult to discuss his ex as I didn't really know what the "boundaries" are. Now, we're both willing to listen and not judge. 4. NO SEX -- Until after my divorce. - Due to all the less than pleasing rumors and upset our reunion ()caused we both made the conscious decision not to have a physical relationship until my divorce is final and we've mutually decided to try a real relationship. So, what do you think? Is it totally weird to establish "rules"? We didn't write them down or anything (that would be strange), but we worked hard to include everything we thought was important. Am I missing anything? I deliberately did not bring up his son, because I honestly don't know how to approach that. Should I just leave it alone until we decide to begin a relationship? What about our families? Should we tell them we are still communicating and developing a friendship? Or, do I just keep it to myself? Obviously, I don't want my STBXH to find out. We are at odds lately. He's trying to take my dog which pisses me off. I mean he's just intentionally trying to be petty. I think he hates that I never groveled at his feet over the divorce.
AnotherRound Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 I think it's a great idea. Rules are not silly - they are just you two speaking out and laying out clearly your boundaries. I think if both are going into it knowing exactly what the expectations are, then both can make informed choices and all will be happier in the end, no matter the outcome. I recently did this with my exMM and he recently said that he heard me loud and clear. So, he knows where my boundaries are - now it's up to him if he can accept them. And, if he chooses to cross them, he is well aware ahead of time of what the consequences will be - so he makes his choices knowing exactly how it will affect him. For me, keeping it a secret (not telling friends and family etc.) would feel too much like an affair for my liking, but that's a personal choice for you and for him. Discuss it with him, decide together what would be best for all involved (especially the two of you), and if you disagree, compromise if possible. I am sending you good luck and admiring you and he's thinking of the future in such a practical way. I think you are building a great foundation with everyone's cards on the table which will create an honest and open relationship. Kudos! I am curious though, as to why you couldn't talk about ex relationship before? Was this is an issue (sounds like it was?) I am a believer that only truly open communication, about any subject, is bond building. I have had people ask me why I would listen to exMM talk about his stbxw or his OW that came after me - and simply answered, it doesn't bother me at all. I am interested in it bc it was part of his life when I was not part of his life - and it tells me a LOT about him, how he views women and relationships, and himself - it gives me a very good window in who he is as a person. Again, I'm hopeful for you as it seems you are building a great foundation! And all the "rules/boundaries" sound very sensible to me. 1
Author SecretFlower Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 Hockeyfan, I suppose if you think it's an affair that's your opinion, but I like to think it's me trying to move on in my life in the healthiest way I know possible. We are both single (almost) and for the first time we have the opportunity to be in a typical relationship. We want to establish a friendship, because we never truly had that in our affair. It was purely romantic. I loved him and we had a turbulent relationship. But, if we have a friendship there is a basis and grounding that was never there before.
Author SecretFlower Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 ^^ AR, I never felt comfortable discussing his ex and I definitely never felt comfortable discussing mine. He hated my husband, though I think it was more jealously than anything, and up until tonight I refused to discuss my divorce with him. My ex's problem is that he thinks he can fix everything and has always tried to "save" me from things. So, now that there are boundaries I feel like I can be more open with him and hopefully him with me. 1
veryhappy Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Why not put the rules in writing? You might remember them differently in a couple of months. The one thing that bothers me is seeing other people. I would personally not see someone at all trying to build a friendship(??) while he's out doing other women. That's insane. My view is that if somebody wants me, they'd better want me now and give their best to it. One of you wants to test the waters. It's not normal to put the romantic R on hold to work on the friendship. It's bs. You can work on the friendship within the romantic R. Just giving you the heads up that this man's eyes might hurt from all the sparkle and glitter he sees available now, and he wants to sample.
Author SecretFlower Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 ^^ The idea of putting the romantic relationship on hold is MY idea. I just don't feel comfortable getting back with him unless there's more than just an affair there. In my experience all of my relationships have been fueled by romantic feelings and I'd like this to grow in a different way. The whole thing about seeing other people is also my idea (lol). I don't know how long my divorce is going to take, it's certainly NOT going how I thought it would, and I don't want him to feel obligated to stand by me. I have very little expectations, but I do want him to know that I care about him and I would understand if he met someone who is available and with less baggage than me. Maybe that seems a bit like a contradiction, but it's how I feel. I care too much about him to force him to wait for however long it is before I'm ready to give him what he wants. He wants a friend and lover and in many cases a wife and mother to more kids, but I'm not sure I'm willing to do that right now. He understands and says he'll wait, but I don't want to lead him on. I just don't want anyone to get hurt. Even if this all ends with him just being my friend I'll be okay with that. Does that make sense? 1
Author SecretFlower Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 I also want to add, before it gets brought up, that I never really wanted any of that to begin with. Early in our affair I assumed he would leave his then-girlfriend which he obviously never did, but I never really wanted to be his wife or mother to his kids. I never really have wanted to get married. I married my husband because it was something I thought I could learn to love (marriage that is not my husband I always loved him), but I don't. I like being single and the companionship that comes along with a relationship. I like having my name and my own identity. And as for children after my miscarriage I've always been leery of having them. It just hurt too much to imagine losing another.
Artie Lang Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 no matter how you paint it, you're still "involved" with him(ex-MM). it's still technically an affair if you haven't officially divorced, regardless if you have sex or not. if you don't want your STBXH to find out and go NUCLEAR on you, i suggest you "cool it" for a while. at least until the divorce comes through. BTW- it sounds like your counselor is enabling your toxic behavior, instead of offering healthy choices. 1
Author SecretFlower Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 ^^ And, that's okay. I may be involved in an emotional affair, but as my STBXH is also dating and moving on I don't feel the same guilt as I would. That may be selfish and a bit cold, but at this point all that is binding us is a legal document. I don't think my counselor is enabling toxic behaviors. For the first time I'm making active steps to be in a relationship with more than just love or my heart. She's been my longtime therapist (I think we're going on six years) and she knows what I've been through and what I've done. She hasn't actively told me to go and be in a relationship with my ex, but she's also helped me to realize that my opinion does matter and if I think that I need to look at a relationship with him than I should do it in a healthy and thought-out manner. That's what I'm doing. It's not her job to tell me how to live my life. It's her job to help me see what the repercussions of my actions are. Or, at least that's how I think of her. 1
Artie Lang Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 sorry, but i've never heard of a therapist suggesting you pursue an extra-marital affair in order to "better" yourself. at any rate if your ok with it- KNOCK YOURSELF OUT. 1
Summer Breeze Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 sorry, but i've never heard of a therapist suggesting you pursue an extra-marital affair in order to "better" yourself. at any rate if your ok with it- KNOCK YOURSELF OUT. Hers didn't tell her to pursue the R either so you're still safe and haven't heard of it still. SecretFlower I'm in a similar place. DMM and I started talking a few months ago. He'd moved out over 6 months before that and his D was close to being complete (now is). I took it slow and where we didn't have any rules set up, I led the pace. He wanted me to be comfortable in everything we did. I still haven't seen him yet. We talk more now than we did when he first told me but I'm determined to make sure we walk before we run. I think if the rules are acceptable for both of you then go for it. I think Cutedragon said to write them down. That would be interesting to have them on paper and then look back at them to see how far things have gone at any given point. Take it easy. That's what I'm doing. I have so many questions to ask him and we have 4 years of catching up to do. Part of me is terrified but the bigger part is very happy. Good luck to you. 1
kae Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 lets keep it simple! Do you want a relationship with the guy or do you want a friendship?? I think u should divorce first. and establish your independence and if he wants you.. he`ll find you.. that`s it. all these rules and blahblahblah .. fake illusions of self control.. why dont you get some REAL SELF CONTROL.. instead.. it will help either way..
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