Inappropriate?

[woinlove]

I don't see a problem with it unless his wife is just really insecure about it.

 

What a weird way to turn it around - suggests some hangup about wives?!! What about if the man just wants to place higher priority on spending time with his young children and his wife? Wouldn't you respect that too? If one really wants to maintain a loving, intimate R with one's spouse while having a full time job and raising young children, you typically really need to protect your off-work hours and prioritize. Things are quite different if there are no children.

 

The man said no, I suspect the "house thing" was a polite way to say no, if he is an involved father and husband.

Edited October 14, 2012 by woinlove

[Driver12]

If I was you, I would ask him if his wife is okay with it (if he decides to go). If he says no, then I wouldn't go as it's just going to bring drama from her. If he says she is okay with it, I would take him at his word (unless you KNOW differently) and go with him. Like you said, you aren't going to a hotel room - it's a play with hundreds (thousands?) of people present. I would drive separately, meet there, and enjoy the play - then part ways. Easy peasy - and you get to experience the play with a good friend that also appreciates it. It's better, imo, then dragging your SO along when they would rather tear out their own eyes than watch a play (my ex, lol!).

 

Thanks for your post - thats exactly how I see it. Also agree about arriving seperately, that was the plan anyway as I live in the city and he doesn't so we would've been meeting there.

[whichwayisup]

Obviously he isn't completely comfortable with it.

 

it isn't just about his wife possibly being insecure about it (Hmm, does that mean all your women co workers who are married are all insecure because they feel it's inappropriate?)..

[AnotherRound]

What a weird way to turn it around - suggests some hangup about wives?!! What about if the man just wants to place higher priority on spending time with his young children and his wife? Wouldn't you respect that too? If one really wants to maintain a loving, intimate R with one's spouse while having a full time job and raising young children, you typically really need to protect your off-work hours and prioritize. Things are quite different if there are no children.

 

The man said no, I suspect the "house thing" was a polite way to say no, if he is an involved father and husband.

 

Not just wives, girlfriends too. But not a "weird hangup", just saying that I see that some women (and men too) are not comfortable with their SO having relationships with the opposite gender outside of the marriage - even just a friendship. If his SO (which is his wife in this scenario) has no problems with it - I don't see the harm. And, if he thinks he can't have a friendship without having an affair, then I don't think it's a good idea - but how would she know that? I mean - to her, it's just going to a play - it's not a big deal, imo.

 

I have no idea why he said no. I was simply saying that if the wife had a problem with it, I wouldn't go with him, out of respect for her. It seems insecure to me, but I don't really know if that's why she would be uncomfortable with it - that's just how it looks to me. It could be that she just wants him home with her and the kids or whatever, I don't know them, so have no idea. It was just a guess on my part from what I have seen - which is that often times the person who is insecure is very reluctant to "allow" their SO to have outside relationships - doesn't mean it's true in every case, I've just seen it sometimes.

[woinlove]

Whichwayisup - woahh, that's a little heavy. Nobody said I was 'best friends' with him or ever wanted to be, Woinlove just used that term in an analogy.

 

And 'selfish, self serving friendship' - excuse me? We work together and are friends, it was never some elaborate plan to go to the theatre together and me poach him away from his family...we were talking about theatre, my friends couldn't go, so I made a casual offer of a ticket

 

'If you want friendship with him, then you need to invite him and his family out for dinner, or have them all over to your house. '

 

I really don't lol I have plenty of married and single friends of the opposite sex that I'm friends with individually - I don't need to be friends with the entire family. That said, I have no aversion to meeting his wife or anything like that

 

Driver, I just brought up the best friends in trying to illustrate the many balls working parents juggle. It sounds like maybe you don't have children and I think it can be difficult for people who don't have children to know how demanding (and rewarding) raising children is. I have a real soft spot for children - they are humankind's future - and consequently, I have tremendous respect for parents who give them a high priority. If one has children with a spouse one loves, then nurturing that relationship is part of giving the children a high priority (as well as a priority in its own right) because it is all part of providing a loving, stable home for them to grow up in. Combine this with a full-time job, and often something fails if one gives too many other things priority.

 

And this all continues well into their teens where non-parents may not realize how much teens benefit from attention and parental love.

 

I would be responding very differently in this thread if you hadn't mentioned he had children.

[Driver12]

He did say no, after saying how much he'd like to, but the house thing is true so that IS the reason. He's a very direct person, so if he felt uncomfortable by it, he's the type to just say so. I'm the same, so no offense would have been taken whatsoever

[AnotherRound]

Thanks for your post - thats exactly how I see it. Also agree about arriving seperately, that was the plan anyway as I live in the city and he doesn't so we would've been meeting there.

 

I think that there are a lot of people who see any outside relationships with the opposite gender as "inappropriate", but I disagree. I think it's not only healthy, but is how it "should" be. If someone doesn't trust their SO to have a friendship without having an affair, or getting into a truly inappropriate relationship, I'm unsure how that forms a solid relationship. It wouldn't for me, and if I had an SO that attempted to "control" me in that manner, I would be VERY uncomfortable, and feel as if they didn't trust me - and that is a dealbreaker for me.

 

However, I would respect his wife is she had a problem with it. I think you might be right, it might be a generational thing. I have a male friend who is in his early 70s, we volunteered together for a time, and we often have coffee together. However, he is very big on being "proper", as he says it. He doesn't visit me at my house alone - he sees it as improper. We often have coffee together, and we talk about a lot of things - he is currently dating one of my very close friends, a widow of his same age. But, he always washes his truck before he picks me up - bc he thinks it is disrespectful to pick up a woman in a dirty vehicle - it's honestly adorable. But, he definitely comes from a different time when there were much more rigid and strict "courting" rules and rules about opposite gender company. I'm in my mid to late 30s, and had very liberal (read Hippy, lol) parents - so, my idea of what is inappropriate is very far from his. But, I respect his "rules", no problem - and if his gf (my good friend) had any issue with us "hanging out", I would respect that. She doesn't, but of course, she has no reason to feel threatened by me as he treats me like a grand daughter...

[Driver12]

I don't have children, no, but I work with them and it's actually part of both of our jobs so I do appreciate that it's demanding in the extreme (in a good way!).

 

Out of interest, what would your response have been?

[woinlove]

I was simply saying that if the wife had a problem with it, I wouldn't go with him, out of respect for her. .

 

Actually you said you wouldn't have a problem with it unless the wife was insecure. Implying you wouldn't have a problem with it even if he wanted to reserve his evenings for his family and best friends, because of all the balls he was juggling. That is a common scenario for involved working parents.

[Driver12]

- but how would she know that? I mean - to her, it's just going to a play - it's not a big deal, imo.

 

That's really all it was! I thought my colleagues reaction was surprising, but apparently not in the minority

[woinlove]

I don't have children, no, but I work with them and it's actually part of both of our jobs so I do appreciate that it's demanding in the extreme (in a good way!).

 

Out of interest, what would your response have been?

 

If they were a childless couple, then I would say unless his work also takes up many evenings, he would typically have more time for a range of friends and activities. Such a person could have said yes or no, depending on how him and his W view these things and what current demands are on his time. I would think it would be more likely his "no" could simply mean, "I don't have time right now". I'd take his explanation more at face value.

[AnotherRound]

Actually you said you wouldn't have a problem with it unless the wife was insecure. Implying you wouldn't have a problem with it even if he wanted to reserve his evenings for his family and best friends, because of all the balls he was juggling. That is a common scenario for involved working parents.

 

No, my assumption was that she might be insecure about it. I also said that if she wasn't okay with it, for any reason, then I would respect that. But, the scenario presented by other posters was that the wife would think it inappropriate, or that they thought it inappropriate, and I was wondering why someone would think it inappropriate. My first guess was insecurity - but as you pointed out, it could have been a different reason too - wanting him home with her and the children bc of limited time to do that. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

[woinlove]

driver, just to put the kids, no kids in perspective:

 

since he gave your his answer the next day, it is likely he talked to his W. The conversation may have gone along the lines "we haven't managed to take an evening off just for ourselves this week, so let's make sure we do that in the coming week, okay?" That's a typical healthy marriage with children that is juggling a lot of balls. A couple without children typically is able to take several evenings just for themselves each week. A big difference.

[Driver12]

Oh no, I completely understand that point, I was just interested in hearing a furthered opinion In this case, however, the packing thing is definitely true as prior to the theatre conversation he was telling me all about it - he has no reason to lie, he's been far blunter about a lot more 'sensitive' topics!

[woinlove]

Oh no, I completely understand that point, I was just interested in hearing a furthered opinion In this case, however, the packing thing is definitely true as prior to the theatre conversation he was telling me all about it - he has no reason to lie, he's been far blunter about a lot more 'sensitive' topics!

 

I didn't mean to suggest it was a lie, just not filling you in on all the context (which there is no reason why he should, as you already know he is married with kids and has a job). If one is moving house (with kids!) packing takes a lot of time. One still might not do it full time every evening. If an unavoidable crisis came up, he'd likely shift some packing time or whatever. The fact that he didn't just settle it once and for all as soon as you asked, but responded the next day, suggests there might have bee some flexibility.

 

Yes, he's packing and he isn't going to shift that schedule, perhaps because when he looks at all his demands and wanting to spend time with his wife and children, there just aren't enough hours. Had he responded immediately, sorry, can't make it, I would think it was a fixed commitment for that particular evening or he had already figured out he didn't have time for this kind of stuff.

[Eve]

OP, I suppose the best thing to do in the future is to make sure you get introduced to the Wife. That should cover things. Don't get pushed into a corner by anyone though if you are innocent. I don't agree with that. As I said before, not everyone wants to have affairs. I don't even understand how people find the time for all of that..

 

On reflection, in real life, I seem to be what a lot of men want in terms of a long term partner and I do find that single men like being with me - but tend not to push their luck. This may not be the case but I would look at whether this man maybe has characteristics which you would like in a partner of your own? I know this is the case for women when they look at my Husband.. but I trust him. That man totally adores me!

 

Think about this though.

 

In short, I reckon that some people have aspects of what we find attractive but we are not supposed to sleep with them. If they are true friends they will give us what we need without over stepping boundaries. Even though I am married I still respect this very human process for what it is. Hence, I will not get overly jealous.. but I can be, a bit, lol.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[angie2443]

I get the sense that you want people to tell you it's ok to go out with this guy. You seem to respond more positively to the posts that indicate that there is nothing wrong with going out with a married man in the evening. Honestly, you seem to have very weak bounderies. If this man also has weak bounderies, I wouldn't be suprised if something did happen between you two. It doesn't matter if neither of you are thinking of anything beyond hanging out. It doesn't even matter if you guys aren't each others type. People without good bounderies are just more likely to get into inappropriate relationships (for lack of a better word). I'm not attacking you personally, I have just seen this situation so many times on these boards and in real life. Maybe the risk of something happening doesn't bother you. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry if what you are doing is inappropriate or not. It's not going to matter in the end.

[angie2443]

I don't see a problem with it unless his wife is just really insecure about it. .

 

Knowing the situation you are in, this statement feels, to me, like insult to women with firm bounderies. At the very least, it comes across as bieng dismissive towards women who would be "just really insecure" about their husband's going with female friends in the evening.

[whichwayisup]

Oh no, I completely understand that point, I was just interested in hearing a furthered opinion In this case, however, the packing thing is definitely true as prior to the theatre conversation he was telling me all about it - he has no reason to lie, he's been far blunter about a lot more 'sensitive' topics!

 

Hmm, this makes me wonder? What are you implying? That you've had some 'personal' talk with him on a more intimate level?

 

Driver, let's be honest here. It seems (if I am wrong please let me know) that you "like" him a bit more than you should. You've already said you've connected with him.. Spending more time with the guy is putting yourself in a situation where your feelings will be fed and you could become too emotionally attached.

Not saying you two will hop into the sack and have an affair, but this is how 'inappropriate' things can happen. A touch, a hug.. Sharing.. You don't see this because you're smack in the midst of it.

 

Your own friends in your life have told you what they think, you come here and ask, we're (most) are saying the same thing as your friends, yet you still aren't getting it. This is why I wonder if maybe you have some feelings for him already, not intentional, but be aware by spending MORE time with him, they will grow. He isn't comfortable with it which is why he backed out. I do hope you respect his decision and don't ask him "are you sure you can't make it.." or something along those lines.

[AnotherRound]

Knowing the situation you are in, this statement feels, to me, like insult to women with firm bounderies. At the very least, it comes across as bieng dismissive towards women who would be "just really insecure" about their husband's going with female friends in the evening.

 

Nope, not dismissive at all. And someone else pointed out it might not be insecurity at all, which I hadn't thought of. Honestly, my first thought was , "why would someone not want their spouse to have friends of the opposite sex? Insecurity." Because, if the OP was a male, I think this wouldn't even be a conversation that we needed to have here. So, it's just the fact that the OP is a female that is the issue.

 

Some people ARE insecure and don't want their spouse or SO to have ANY outside relationships. I would have no problem with my SO going to something that I had no interest in with someone of the opposite sex. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would? Lack of trust? Isn't that an insecurity?

 

And I'm not sure what situation I'm in currently? I am a FOW, maybe that is what you meant? Not wanting your SO to have friends of the opposite sex, or not wanting them to go out with a friend of the opposite sex "in the evening" (why is that relevant????) isn't always about "firm boundaries". I noticed that you suggested that people that would do this have "weak boundaries", and I totally disagree. This isn't an issue of boundaries, imo. It's an issue of security, and trust, and possibly just culture or age or whatever, or maybe just an issue of family time as another poster brought up. Someone can have very firm boundaries and go out with friends of the opposite sex in the evening (I find this whole evening thing odd, honestly, is that different than going out in the day? And if so, why? I don't understand that at all).

 

I find your insinuation that anyone that WOULD go out with a friend of the opposite gender who happens to be in a LT relationship has "weak boundaries" insulting to perhaps "more modern" or "more progressive" or "more secure" women.

 

And maybe it's a semantics issue in that we aren't all on the same page regarding what a "boundary" actually is, or what is considered "healthy" or not regarding boundaries. But "weak boundaries" doesn't necessarily equal bad, nor does "strong" necessarily equal good. For instance, someone who is controlling has VERY rigid and strong boundaries with their partner - but that could mean abusive. Not necessarily a good thing in all cases, imo and according to the psychology that I have studied and presented on boundaries.

 

I think in this case, it's seriously not a big deal. She had an extra ticket, he likes the theatre, whatever. If his wife is also interested in theatre, it could be an issue in that she may wish to go too and be hurt or felt left out if he went with someone else. Or, the wife may be insecure and not want him to have a friendship with the OP. Or, the wife may just want him to stay home on the weekends to be with the family. But any way you look at it, the OP did nothing wrong by inviting a friend to a shared interest event that she had an extra ticket to. The MM decided to not go bc he has to pack - there was no mention that he lied to his wife, or that his wife had a problem with it, or anything of that nature. So, insinuating that the OP had ulterior motives, or has weak boundaries, or whatever seems awfully reactive to me bc she stated clearly what her intent was, and there was nothing sinister in it. Just bc some believe that this is "inappropriate" doesn't make it universally true - only true to them. Of course, that IS their right - but not everyone thinks or believes like that - so, it's only inappropriate if those involved deem it to be so (yes, the wife is included in that).

[Driver12]

Alice – It’s not a ‘date’, it would have been a socialising with a friend. If that’s considered a date, then I’m in way more relationships with friends of both sexes than I ever thought possible

 

Angie – I don’t need anyone to ‘tell me it’s okay’, I genuinely don’t see the issue with it, I was just interested in other peoples point of view after my colleagues reaction. I certainly don’t have ‘very weak boundaries’, I’m more than capable of having friendships with men, married and single and have done for many years. As I said in one of my first posts, I asked as this is the first time it’s come up for me.

 

Regarding responding favourably to some – of course I agree with their posts, as we are from the same school of thought! The ‘boundary’ is that is he married, there should be no need for any other stated boundary as it’s obvious from the above!

 

Whichwayisup – I’m not ‘implying’ anything, I’m saying 'he has no reason to lie, he's been far blunter about a lot more 'sensitive' topics!' - no subtext, no nothing. We’re friends, we chat about our lives, work situations, whatever – same as I do with anyone else I ‘connect’ with as a friend.

 

As you said let you know if you’re wrong…thankfully, you are. I like him, obviously, but on the whole, I like anyone who I consider a friend. We get on, that is all.

 

By the way, it wasn’t any of my friends who gave me opinions, it was two work colleagues who I was chatting with after I saw him. It’s not that I’m ‘not getting it’, I just don’t agree. There’s no issue of not respecting etc – he said no, it’s fine, no big deal whatsoever, I’m not desperate for him to come with me or anything lol

 

AnotherRound – again, thank you! Your last paragraph in particular sums my feelings up exactly and more articulately than I seem to be able to produce at the moment! ‘But any way you look at it, the OP did nothing wrong by inviting a friend to a shared interest event that she had an extra ticket to’ < that is all it was ever intended to be!

Edited October 15, 2012 by Driver12

[Cb3657]

You should read a little background on the posters then reevaluate how you would like to proceed. there are many people who have started in this same spot and ended up with a broken marriage or being a other woman, with all the benifits and trust that relatioship implies. if that is what you want then go forward with your plans.

I am married and love my wife, my answer to your invitation would be no, in addition I would wonder if we were wandering down a road my wife would not be comfortable with. If you wish to proceed with this friendship I would say meet the wife, get comfortable with him and his family then maybe this kind of invitation would be ok.

[Driver12]

'if that is what you want then go forward with your plans.'

 

As AnotherRound pointed out, I really don't like the insinuations that I have - or he has - some ulterior motive, even perhaps unwittingly. There are no 'plans', it was a casual offer, no import or subtext or anything. He loves his family, there have been no talk/actions of otherwise, he is a friend

[Cb3657]

No I got it, no infarious intent, just no one ever does. Have you ever met someone who honestly thought they were doing a bad thing and proceeded. These things do get away from people. I really hope thing go well for you, every person I know who has the men women " just friends" has come to grief over it sooner or later.

[angie2443]

 

I find your insinuation that anyone that WOULD go out with a friend of the opposite gender who happens to be in a LT relationship has "weak boundaries" insulting to perhaps "more modern" or "more progressive" or "more secure" women.

 

.

 

I neither said nor implied this.