How To Accept Partner Wanting Other Women?

[LittlePrince]

Crybaby.

I am not crying, baby.

 

How about making something useful of yourself,

I don't predicate my existence on being useful.

 

then, even if you can't enjoy or be grateful for what you have?

If it brings no benefit then it would be useless going against the whole idea of being useful.

[Mme. Chaucer]

No, none of my guy friends have crushes on me.

 

I have signed up for eHarmony, Match, and OKCupid for over 6 months, and had zero luck on all of them.

 

Okay here's the thing posters.... it's all great and swell to say that not all men are like that, that "good" men are sexually curious but don't trade up, etc.

 

But EVERY woman wants a good man. Every woman wants a man who is so into her he never lets his fantasies get away from him.

 

And by sheer numbers, not enough of these guys exist.

 

So what? Like attracts like. Women like you who buy 100% into and submit to the "beauty myth" and all gender stereotypes way you do are plentiful. There are whole oceans of brain dead douches to go around for y'all.

[bac]

S

 

So I really don't understand. How do you accept that your partner is constantly attracted/crushing on other women, but still wants to be monogamous? How does that make sense? How do you trust them when it seems like they're constantly being tempted, and it's "in their biology" to be always on the look-out for hot women?

 

And when is your partner having a crush on another woman "natural," and when is it a red flag (and they are cheating and you should get yourself a good divorce lawyer)?

 

You should find a man who is equal to you/ in your league.

If you are not attractive, your man should not be attractive as well.

You were able to find an attractive man. But, it should not be harder to find an very ugly guy to abuse him emotionally.

 

If your man wants to cheat on you and you are not a cheater, it means you are totally wrong for each other. There is nothing that can be done about that unless you become a swinger/a cheater like him.

[verhrzn]

So what? Like attracts like. Women like you who buy 100% into and submit to the "beauty myth" and all gender stereotypes way you do are plentiful. There are whole oceans of brain dead douches to go around for y'all.

 

Ah, I so enjoy how you continue being an awful person to me. Thanks ever so much for your help.

[Lonely Ronin]

V this is your problem, you do not live in the real world, you spend all your time living in your world. The following are some examples of you living in your world...

 

 

 

But I am allowed to use this forum as I so choose, just like everyone else, and I will not be judged because I use it in a way that you see as somehow beneath you.

You are judged every day on just about everything you do. As I have said before you are judged on everything from the job you have, the car you drive, how you talk, to how you look. Being judged happens to everyone every day both positive and negative, you need to learn to deal with it.

 

 

 

I am not your puppet, I am not your project.... I am a person with difficulties, and if you cannot "help" or even show some goddamn sympathy, then GTFO. I have resisted reporting you for your abusive and condescending language, but I will not any longer. Get the **** away.

 

With respect V, you have done nothing to show that you want help. Your posts normally start with a complaint about how society or a subset of society works. You almost always focus on how society needs to change to be more like how you think it should be. in essence YOU are judging society or a subset of it.

 

What you don't seem to get is that you need to change not society. Your an extreme minority, and you have a 0% chance of changing society in your life time. If you want a happy relationship you need to change some stuff about your personality, and the thing at the top of the list, is getting over the fact that society doesn't work the way you think it should.

[verhrzn]

V this is your problem, you do not live in the real world, you spend all your time living in your world. The following are some examples of you living in your world...

 

You are judged every day on just about everything you do. As I have said before you are judged on everything from the job you have, the car you drive, how you talk. to how you look. Being judged happens to everyone every day both positive and negative, you need to learn to deal with it.

 

With respect V, you have done nothing to show that you want help. Your posts normally start with a complaint about how society or a subset of society works. You almost always focus on how society needs to change to be more like how you think it should be. in essence YOU are judging society or a subset of it.

 

What you don't seem to get is that you need to change not society. Your an extreme minority, and you have a 0% chance of changing society in your life time. If you want a happy relationship you need to change some stuff about your personality, and the thing at the top of the list, is getting over the fact that society doesn't work the way you think it should.

 

So I should change everything about myself to fit society.... just like everyone should have accepted slavery, and racism, and sexual harassment and assault, and bullying, and prejudice, because that's "just the world"...

 

How exactly do you accept a world that judges you so harshly? How do you live in a world that tells you every day you're not enough?

 

I HAVE tried. I have taken medication, I've done therapy, I have TRIED to change. Do you really think that in high school, when I was being tormented daily, I didn't try?

 

Should gay people just accept that society is homophobic and try to change their sexuality? Should introverted people just accept that society isn't built to accommodate shyness and force themselves to be extroverts?

 

At what point do we draw the line and say we GET to be who we are, and tell society to accept that?

 

And again, how exactly do you accept that the only way you will ever be happy is to change everything about yourself? Would YOU want to live in that life?

[Imajerk17]

No, none of my guy friends have crushes on me.

 

I have signed up for eHarmony, Match, and OKCupid for over 6 months, and had zero luck on all of them.

 

Okay here's the thing posters.... it's all great and swell to say that not all men are like that, that "good" men are sexually curious but don't trade up, etc.

 

But EVERY woman wants a good man. Every woman wants a man who is so into her he never lets his fantasies get away from him.

 

And by sheer numbers, not enough of these guys exist.

 

So for those of us who are not attractive, who are not enough for a guy to be "totally into" us, but still desire love, what can we do? How can we cope?

 

 

Truly?

 

In your case, where you have (A) a self-obsession and self-loathing that borders on morbid, and (B) an unwillingness to change (for as unhappy as you sound all you give is excuses for why you can't change), I'd say not a whole lot. A guy who might otherwise be attracted to you physically will get put off by your whining and will eventually leave for greener pastures so to speak. Yes even a dorky Nice Guy.

 

Sorry, but I'm not one for sugar-coating. At the current path you are on, you won't be getting much love. You have to Deserve What You Want. If you truly want love, you're going to have to change. And since you hardly seem willing to put in the work to change, well...

 

MEANWHILE, you might do yourself well to consider that plenty of "beautiful people" have suffered just as much struggle in dating as you have. And plenty of "average people" are in great relationships--in many cases, the woman isn't even as pretty as you are.

 

Meanwhile, keep wallowing in your misery and when it comes to love, you're just going to have to take what you can get.

 

 

RE your response to Lonely Ronin's posts: There is no TRY. There is only DO. Thomas Edison didn't stop after the 5000th failure. Put in more effort.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Imajerk17

[verhrzn]

Truly?

 

In your case, where you have (A) a self-obsession and self-loathing that borders on morbid, and (B) an unwillingness to change (for as unhappy as you sound all you give is excuses for why you can't change), I'd say not a whole lot. A guy who might otherwise be attracted to you physically will get put off by your whining and will eventually leave for greener pastures so to speak. Yes even a dorky Nice Guy.

 

Sorry, but I'm not one for sugar-coating. At the current path you are on, you won't be getting much love. You have to Deserve What You Want. If you truly want love, you're going to have to change. And since you hardly seem willing to put in the work to change, well...

 

MEANWHILE, you might do yourself well to consider that plenty of "beautiful people" have suffered just as much struggle in dating as you have. And plenty of "average people" are in great relationships--in many cases, the woman isn't even as pretty as you are.

 

Meanwhile, keep wallowing in your misery and when it comes to love, you're just going to have to take what you can get.

 

 

RE your response to Lonely Ronin's posts: There is no TRY. There is only DO. Thomas Edison didn't stop after the 5000th failure. Put in more effort.

 

I HAVE tried to change. Drugs, therapy, constantly beating myself up until I'm black and blue.... Do you really think I'd be in this body with this life if I had a choice? No. But it hasn't worked, nothing I have tried has worked.

 

But I suppose you're right, that certain people deserve love, and certain people don't. Ugly introverts don't.

 

So how do you go about accepting a life without love (and I mean romantic and platonic)?

[suladas]

I don't believe dating sites have been a failure, unless you're REALLY picky about guys you'll talk to. I'm on eharmony and from seeing your picture here, you are definitely hot enough I would message you and be interested unless your profile had something extremely weird. And actually yes, I am shallow when it comes to looks I will not message a girl unless I find her quite attractive. You have a good looking face, nice chest, and are a good weight to put it bluntly. You have a lot going for you looks wise.

 

The thing I don't think you get is when a guy is into you, he might look at other women but he doesn't want them, he doesn't wonder if they are better or anything, he is into you, he doesn't want or care about anyone else. Naturally also they will be looking less and picturing them naked less, if at all compared to when they are single. The big advantage you have over other girls is your guy doesn't know them, he knows you and likes you, just because another girl is good looking doesn't mean she has anything else you'd like about them. Even to put it loosely it's just eye candy. Nice to look at, but that's it. It's just like porn, if a guy has no real women to be with he's going to look at porn.

 

If you want to a find a good guy you're going to have to have some confidence in yourself though.

[xxoo]

I think for a guy to be truly into you, he needs to see you as the absolute best he can ever hope to get (in terms of physical beauty mostly).

 

To increase our chances of that, we need to date undesirable guys :/

 

I very much disagree with the bolded.

 

If a guy's interest and commitment to you is mostly related to physical beauty, it won't last.

 

He's got to feel like a lucky man, true. But guys want so much more than physical beauty to commit. They want someone who connects with them better than all the rest, wants them more than all the rest (sexually), who they enjoy more than all the rest.

 

If a guy has a woman he finds sexually attractive, and she is wildly into him (great sex), and he actually likes spending time with her....he's going to feel very lucky.

[Imajerk17]

I hope you are kind of trolling with this.

 

There is a whole 'nother level that leaves how hot you are far behind in the dust.

 

Certainly the people have to have a very compelling draw to one another to get anything good launched. I propose that if EITHER the guy or girl is objectively checking and thinking, "hm. I wonder if I can do better?" then the whole enterprise is doomed from the very start.

 

I am in NYC at the moment with my husband visiting his son and his fiancee. The son is very attractive and he has a cool job, is in a band with recordings out and shows, etc. He is NOT a douchey type or what is commonly referred to around here as "alpha." He is more poetic, old-school and romantic.

 

When he was a teenager, he dated the "Miss Teen" of the state they came from.

 

His fiancee is NOT pretty. At all. When I first met her, I figured out this big theory about why my husband's 2 sons both have pretty plain (or, in one case, even bad looking) girlfriends while they are handsome. I think that it's because their mom is SO defined by her vanity and her attachment to her own physical good looks, and over the top high maintenance about that stuff, that it rendered all vain girls as undesirable by the boys.

 

But, as I have grown to know this fiancee, I have started to see her as very attractive. It's also clear that she has a tremendous … power … sexually. He is TOTALLY into her. She has a graceful, lithe body, translucent skin and exquisite hands which he is really fascinated with. She has horribly crooked teeth and wears not a stitch of makeup, and is very pale and washed out. She is also really intellectually mighty and she speaks with passion and articulately about all the things she's interested in. Also, she is very emotionally open and expresses that. It's attractive. She has made a lot of super cool things happen for herself in her life. Clearly, he is enchanted with her.

 

I am not saying that they will last forever (though I do predict that they will), but he is NOT, and has NEVER been thinking, "can I get a hotter one."

 

You women are comparing all men to the lowest denominator of men when you buy into that stuff. Certainly those guys exist, and they have a big presence here and elsewhere on the Internet. I think they are unworthy of even two dates with a woman like the fiancee of my adult son in law … or with me. Don't let them be worthy of you either, because there is no good future in trying to be the "hottest" some rube can manage. Loosing game.

 

The woman I'm talking about here is not so attractive because she is super exceptional, either. She is attractive because she, herself, values the things that she IS and she lives true to that. It's the best.

 

I have had this happen several times when on a date with a woman. As I talked to her I was more and more physically attracted.

 

What V clearly doesn't get is that it is her personality and self-loathing that turns people off. NOT her looks. No look is physically attractive to every guy but many a guy will think V is cute by her pictures. What V also doesn't get is that one thing that made me attracted to these women is that they overcame OBSTACLES in life--such as a bad childhood or what have you. They might have been unhappy but they still were willing to keep pushing to get the life they wanted. They didn't come onto an internet forum to cry about how hard they "tried" to change and that it didn't work.

 

I will say it again V, with the slim hope that it will actually stick--it's not about your looks. It's not about your body. Both are fine. It's not even about being an introvert. I am an introvert, and I prefer introverts actually (they're more mysterious for one thing). It is all about your ATTITUDE. Until you change that, you probably will have to get used to a life without love.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Lonely Ronin]

So I should change everything about myself to fit society.... just like everyone should have accepted slavery, and racism, and sexual harassment and assault, and bullying, and prejudice, because that's "just the world"...

 

Acceptance and change are not mutually inclusive. You can accept that society doesn't work they way you want it to and not change, but you must be Ok with the ramifications of that.

 

How exactly do you accept a world that judges you so harshly? How do you live in a world that tells you every day you're not enough?

 

Everyone get's judged harshly, what matters is how you react to it. Most people don't care, your issue is you do care. I think you care a lot more than you let on, and a lot more than your willing to admit to yourself. Like you issue with the teenagers at the mall, most women would be like, "like I care what a bunch of little prepubescent virgins think". You take every negative judgment like, a mortal wound that can never be healed.

 

 

I HAVE tried. I have taken medication, I've done therapy, I have TRIED to change. Do you really think that in high school, when I was being tormented daily, I didn't try?

Again I don't think you don't want to change, you want others to change. In your righteous anger thread you talked about working to change the world, how are you going to do that if you can't even change yourself.

 

The answer is you need to try harder. You might need to dedicate your life to changing, and that might require extreme choices and changes in your personal life.

 

 

Should gay people just accept that society is homophobic and try to change their sexuality? Should introverted people just accept that society isn't built to accommodate shyness and force themselves to be extroverts?

I have many gay friends, both male and female, and they all accept that homophobia exists. The difference between them and you, is they are happy with who they are, they have high self-esteem, and don't care what homophobic people think.

 

At what point do we draw the line and say we GET to be who we are, and tell society to accept that?

You can make society accept nothing, the only thing you can do is change your self to learn how to not be affected by societies views.

 

And again, how exactly do you accept that the only way you will ever be happy is to change everything about yourself? Would YOU want to live in that life?

I have changed a great deal since my ex fiancee moved out a few years ago. I doubt she would even recognize me physically or socially now.

 

The difference between you and I is I care about being happy, more than anything else. You say you wan't to be happy, but your actions say you want to be right, in control, and unchanging, more than you want to be happy.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

It's interesting how you avoided answer two direct questions.

 

 

Get off of it Ronin. You didn't ask questions did you though, you made accusations. You already have your mind made up where I stand.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Xxoo

I really think you are wrong about this!

 

And I think you're wrong about this. *shrug*

 

I can't imagine any other reason so many women are so excited about 50 Shades, except that it kick-starts their libido (either for masturbation, or to think about during actual sex). It's not a well written book! It's popularity is directly related to it's value as erotica.

 

I don't really know how many women are excited by 50 Shades and how much is media blitzing. I know lots of women that find the book foolish.

 

No one "needs" to, but we do sometimes.

 

It's a fantasy. It makes the sex hotter. She could share the fantasy with her partner, if he isn't threatened by it.

 

There is a lot of focus on "fantasy" in today's world. This is kind of what I am talking about. If people need fantasies of other people to make sex hotter with their own partner, I think less focus on the fantasy and more focus on rediscoverin their own partner is in order.

[Lonely Ronin]

Get off of it Ronin. You didn't ask questions did you though, you made accusations. You already have your mind made up where I stand.

 

These look a lot like questions to me....

 

And honestly how much time a day do you spend writing or thinking about porn?

 

Have you considered how your own interactions with porn have distorted your view points?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Do you have any research to support that opinion?

 

How about you show some research to support your opinion and then I will do the same in kind.

[verhrzn]

I have had this happen several times when on a date with a woman. As I talked to her I was more and more physically attracted.

 

What V clearly doesn't get is that it is her personality and self-loathing that turns people off. NOT her looks. No look is physically attractive to every guy but many a guy will think V is cute by her pictures. What V also doesn't get is that one thing that made me attracted to these women is that they overcame OBSTACLES in life--such as a bad childhood or what have you. They might have been unhappy but they still were willing to keep pushing to get the life they wanted. They didn't come onto an internet forum to cry about how hard they "tried" to change and that it didn't work.

 

I will say it again V, with the slim hope that it will actually stick--it's not about your looks. It's not about your body. Both are fine. It's not even about being an introvert. I am an introvert, and I prefer introverts actually (they're more mysterious for one thing). It is all about your ATTITUDE. Until you change that, you probably will have to get used to a life without love.

 

Then explain why I NEVER get contacted online.

 

You've seen my Match profile. ThaWhalogian has seen my OKCupid profile. Neither of them contain even a hint of negativity or whatever you're claiming turns men off.

 

And yet not a single message.

 

So if it's my attitude, and not my looks, then explain that phenomenon.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

The girl in study group is amazingly hot and perfect? Nah....

 

It's a sexual curiosity. There will sometimes be that little wonder....what would it be like with her? What does she look like naked? But it doesn't mean he thinks she's better, or thinks he'd have a better love life with her. Especially if he knows her IRL, he knows she is not perfect.

 

It could mean he thinks she is better. You don't really know if he does or doesn't. I am sure there have been plenty of men in relationships that infact did think the other option was better but didn't go for for a million reasons, and not all of them about his love and care for his current partner.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Lonely Ronin

You are judged every day on just about everything you do. As I have said before you are judged on everything from the job you have, the car you drive, how you talk, to how you look. Being judged happens to everyone every day both positive and negative, you need to learn to deal with it.

 

 

Clearly V is trying to work it out and is trying to figure out things. But rail-roading over her and saying "just deal with it" doesn't really do anything to help her. Or telling her that her concerns don't matter or that she is this or that.

 

With respect V, you have done nothing to show that you want help. Your posts normally start with a complaint about how society or a subset of society works. You almost always focus on how society needs to change to be more like how you think it should be. in essence YOU are judging society or a subset of it.

 

I want society to change. I don't see why I should pretend otherwise. I don't see why V should pretend otherwise. Certainly we all need to learn how to live in society, doesn't mean we can't change certain thigns about it with enough gumption.

 

 

 

What you don't seem to get is that you need to change not society.

 

Actually society does need to change and it is ever changing. IF we stop demanding society not to change then we just accept the status quo

 

Your an extreme minority, and you have a 0% chance of changing society in your life time.

 

You don't know that. Just takes one person to get things moving and people talking.

[xxoo]

There is a lot of focus on "fantasy" in today's world. This is kind of what I am talking about. If people need fantasies of other people to make sex hotter with their own partner, I think less focus on the fantasy and more focus on rediscoverin their own partner is in order.

 

But I'm not talking about needing fantasy for sex to be hotter. I'm talking about enjoying fantasy as one of many ways to make sex hot with our partners.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

These look a lot like questions to me....

 

They are questions disguised as accusations. You already made your thoughts on those questions well known. YOu believe I spend too much time writing and and thinking about porn. Which is why you made a comparison to me vs men that actually look at porn. You already answered your own question once you said that. As for the second question, you already set up the questions with the idea that my ideas are already "distorted". Thus making it clear that your questions are mearly window dressing for what you already believe.

[verhrzn]

Again I don't think you don't want to change, you want others to change. In your righteous anger thread you talked about working to change the world, how are you going to do that if you can't even change yourself.

 

The answer is you need to try harder. You might need to dedicate your life to changing, and that might require extreme choices and changes in your personal life.

 

I have righteous anger now. I spent ages 8-22ish trying to change to please society.... to please other people. Be this, be that, not this, not that. What you see is the damage OF trying to change and being unable to for years. I destroyed myself, internally, trying to fit in.... Nearly killed myself in despair more times than is right. Do you know what that's like? To be SO desperate to be liked, to fit in, to finally "change" into something acceptable, and yet be unable to? The kind of fragmented thinking that causes, the kind of damage it does?

 

 

I have many gay friends, both male and female, and they all accept that homophobia exists. The difference between them and you, is they are happy with who they are, they have high self-esteem, and don't care what homophobic people think.

 

So they don't care that they can't get married? They don't care that other people will think they are child molesters if they try to get a job at a school? They don't care if people yell "go die fag!" down the street every day? Or if coworkers joke in the middle of a meeting about what a queer they are, and everybody laughs? They don't care that thousands of gay teens are bullied and rejected into suicide every month by homophobes?

 

Maybe, maybe, when homophobes are the very small minority, I could buy your friends not caring. But when homophobes still occupy a sizeable majority... when living in this society can still be a very painful experience for a gay person.... It makes your friends look self-centered and naive, not enlightened, to shrug and say they don't need to change society because they're "happy with themselves." Because obviously, THEM being happy is the only factor that should be taken into account when asking society to evolve.

 

You can make society accept nothing, the only thing you can do is change your self to learn how to not be affected by societies views.

 

Or I can ask society to accept things. Just because it's hard, just because it's abnormal or ridiculous to you does not mean I shouldn't.

 

I have changed a great deal since my ex fiancee moved out a few years ago. I doubt she would even recognize me physically or socially now.

 

The difference between you and I is I care about being happy, more than anything else. You say you wan't to be happy, but your actions say you want to be right, in control, and unchanging, more than you want to be happy.

 

And what about my point, about where's the line in the sand? You tell me to change so I'll be happy in this society.... exactly how MUCH should I change? How much would you advise is the moral amount of change required for me to "fit in"? People destroy their bodies and their lives and their souls to fit into society and "be happy"... how far do you think someone should go before they ask society to maybe meet them halfway?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

But I'm not talking about needing fantasy for sex to be hotter. I'm talking about enjoying fantasy as one of many ways to make sex hot with our partners.

 

And I am talking about how often people use fantasy to make sex hotter with their partner. On some scale, it certainly does seem like some people *need* it to make their sex hotter. Especially with men and how much they spend with pornography or how often men talk about how they think about just about any attractive woman they pass on the street.

[Imajerk17]

Maybe V you could channel your anger to start a support group or something for girls who feel the way you do. I am perfectly serious. This is something that you seem to be really passionate about and so I could see you actually helping other girls who have your mindset, even if it is just providing a forum for them to safely vent. And yes this passion would be attractive to guys too...

Edited October 22, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Lonely Ronin]

They are questions disguised as accusations. You already made your thoughts on those questions well known. YOu believe I spend too much time writing and and thinking about porn. Which is why you made a comparison to me vs men that actually look at porn. You already answered your own question once you said that. As for the second question, you already set up the questions with the idea that my ideas are already "distorted". Thus making it clear that your questions are mearly window dressing for what you already believe.

 

O please DY, regardless of what my opinions are or are not, it is not like you to back down from a chance to explain your point of view rather the person your debating with agrees with you or not.