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Does being a nice guy eventually mean you will be treated like dirt?

JSJS

By JSJS
in Breaks and Breaking Up

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PlanB123 Member

PlanB123

Posted
Posted
I would emphasize "a bit". Some men tend to overdo on the selfishness and boundaries thing, to the point where it feels like HE'S actually USING and ABUSING the woman. This was the case with my ex. He was too selfish to even pick up the phone and call me once a week even. Selfish doesn't give green light to treat someone like dirt or not show any interest in them. If you're that selfish, it means you're using your partner for sex.

 

 

yeah but see how his actions got you hooked on him. he's the reason you're on here right? that jerk? yet you can't get him out of your head

PlanB123 Member

PlanB123

Posted
Posted

OP, read 'Way of the superior man' - David Deida

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NoMoreJerks Established Member

NoMoreJerks

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yeah but see how his actions got you hooked on him. he's the reason you're on here right? that jerk? yet you can't get him out of your head

Actually, not really - not anymore. I don't feel a thing for him - not even hatred. I just let go of it and accepted that he was a jerk. I don't care if he wants me back, or has changed. I don't want to get back with him.

Tree_Salmon Established Member

Tree_Salmon

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Actually, not really - not anymore. I don't feel a thing for him - not even hatred. I just let go of it and accepted that he was a jerk. I don't care if he wants me back, or has changed. I don't want to get back with him.

 

Either way there's something to be said about douchebags.

 

I've realized that girls love the confident assh**le. A confident assh**le can be a great guy. Douchebags are different though. They are selfish, immature and demanding.

 

The point is, the OP sounds like he wants the path of least resistance and in love this is no good. Conflict is interesting and exciting. Having your own thoughts and ideas, hobbies, boundaries is the best way to have a healthy relationship.

 

It sounds like his ex was just a loser anyway so maybe his being a nice guy to her was a result of her unavailability. People chase what they cant ever have. Guy's become nice doormats and girls become obsessive.

 

From my experiences this is what I've gathered.

I also know that girls love me as the "caring assh**le"

Grow New Member

Grow

Posted
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That's the thing. You look for the easy way out. You're not looking for what is best for you and her, you're looking for what's easy. And that's going to bite you in the ass every single time in every aspect of life. So yes, if you continue doing this, people will treat you like dirt.

I disagree.

If anything, it is the opposite. You would try hard NOT to be nice, betray yourself, just to make someone else happy (or not). The only thing to change is to learn from experience. Be more aware of red flags, set boundaries, take a step back once in a while to see the whole picture, try to sort things out like an adult, mature human being. If you still feel you are TOO nice, there are quite a few self-help books out there (check on amazon), like "How to be assertive in any situation". They are all based on the fact that it is GOOD to be nice, but only when you have dealings with manipulative, disordered, unhealthy, etc. people it can be good to be more assertive. That still leaves those people manipulative, ..., etc.

Screw them.

  • Like 2
Tree_Salmon Established Member

Tree_Salmon

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Posted
I disagree.

If anything, it is the opposite. You would try hard NOT to be nice, betray yourself, just to make someone else happy (or not). The only thing to change is to learn from experience. Be more aware of red flags, set boundaries, take a step back once in a while to see the whole picture, try to sort things out like an adult, mature human being. If you still feel you are TOO nice, there are quite a few self-help books out there (check on amazon), like "How to be assertive in any situation". They are all based on the fact that it is GOOD to be nice, but only when you have dealings with manipulative, disordered, unhealthy, etc. people it can be good to be more assertive. That still leaves those people manipulative, ..., etc.

Screw them.

 

This is very true.

You can't apply healthy ADULT principles to people who are highly damaged emotionally or immature. I found this out myself.

 

Crazy girls will never make sense no matter who you become.

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TopCat22 Established Member

TopCat22

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It's not a question of being nice or not, it's about confidence. Women love confident men. They are in control and can lead, attractive qualities in a mate. You can be nice to a woman without being a doormat. However if you give in to demands that you are not happy giving in to (just to be easy and avoid a fight) it displays a lack of confidence. You're not standing up for yourself. It is very difficult for anyone (male of female) to have respect for someone like this.

 

So try not to focus on the being nice aspect, rather build your confidence and make sure that you stick to your guns when challenged.

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Tree_Salmon Established Member

Tree_Salmon

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Gibson always coming through with exactly what needs to be said.

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NoMoreJerks Established Member

NoMoreJerks

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Either way there's something to be said about douchebags.

 

I've realized that girls love the confident assh**le. A confident assh**le can be a great guy. Douchebags are different though. They are selfish, immature and demanding.

I don't know what you mean by an "assh0le" but I can assure you that, by my definition of an assh0leI do not like assh0les, nor would I consider dating one.

 

The point is, the OP sounds like he wants the path of least resistance and in love this is no good. Conflict is interesting and exciting. Having your own thoughts and ideas, hobbies, boundaries is the best way to have a healthy relationship.

So this is your definition of assh0le? Someone who has his own opinions?!? :confused:
Grow New Member

Grow

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"What women WANT is a great person, who will have a backbone. Thoughts of his own. The courage to stand up to the woman who may start to take advantage, the courage to put her in her place."

The woman who may start to take advantage is the one I do not want to be with. Love is not a victory march, nor is it a power game.

Bloody hell, sounds more like war, your "love".

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Tree_Salmon Established Member

Tree_Salmon

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I don't know what you mean by an "assh0le" but I can assure you that, by my definition of an assh0leI do not like assh0les, nor would I consider dating one.

 

So this is your definition of assh0le? Someone who has his own opinions?!? :confused:

 

Well my definition is more about being assertive and knowing what you want, and not taking anyone's sh*t when they cross your boundaries.

 

Usually people think you're an assh0le when you don't go along with everything they expect from you. And I tend to be overly confident, which seems to intimidate people.

NoMoreJerks Established Member

NoMoreJerks

Posted
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Well my definition is more about being assertive and knowing what you want, and not taking anyone's sh*t when they cross your boundaries.

 

Usually people think you're an assh0le when you don't go along with everything they expect from you. And I tend to be overly confident, which seems to intimidate people.

Uh, no, people think that you're a human being in your own right, with a mind of your own.... that's what they think. Those who think otherwise simply want a toy-boy.

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Grow New Member

Grow

Posted
Posted
"What women WANT is a great person, who will have a backbone. Thoughts of his own. The courage to stand up to the woman who may start to take advantage, the courage to put her in her place."

The woman who may start to take advantage is the one I do not want to be with. Love is not a victory march, nor is it a power game.

Bloody hell, sounds more like war, your "love".

To extend on this (above quote seems to come from "KatZee", btw):

A person that tries to take advantage of another person (the one that is "too nice") is already not a good person, naturally.

When that same person, when or after trying to take advantage, is being "put in place": How can he/she expect then that the newly dominant person (the "winner" of this destructive game) respects him/her? When clearly he/she wouldn't respect a person that is being dominated by him/herself?

Summary: Power Games are BS!

P.S.: If you want to read more about games (of whom the majority are destructive) read Berne's "Games people play". There are also some good summaries of it online (it is a bit of a hard read).

Tree_Salmon Established Member

Tree_Salmon

Posted
Posted
To extend on this (above quote seems to come from "KatZee", btw):

A person that tries to take advantage of another person (the one that is "too nice") is already not a good person, naturally.

When that same person, when or after trying to take advantage, is being "put in place": How can he/she expect then that the newly dominant person (the "winner" of this destructive game) respects him/her? When clearly he/she wouldn't respect a person that is being dominated by him/herself?

Summary: Power Games are BS!

P.S.: If you want to read more about games (of whom the majority are destructive) read Berne's "Games people play". There are also some good summaries of it online (it is a bit of a hard read).

 

Sadly, this is how most relationships work. This is also why we have such a phenomenally large divorce rate.

lvixen Established Member

lvixen

Posted
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My current boyfriend is a "nice" guy, he's a total sweetheart, does little things for me, tells me he cares, gives me gifts, etc, and I love it! I'm tired of dating jerks, that's all I seemed to have dated in the past :/

  • Like 5
Tree_Salmon Established Member

Tree_Salmon

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This is an admission of weakness. When you are an Authentic Man, being taken advantage of isn't an option and it's not something you have to think about, worry about, plan for or ponder.

 

You on the other hand...

 

Say you don't want to be with someone who will take advantage of you. Meaning... You are still open to it and admit it can happen.

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

Typical crap a "Nice" Guy says.

 

Problem is, "Nice" Guys Syndrome manifest itself in all areas of a "Nice" Guys life. Even if a "Nice" Guy ends up with the female version of a "Nice" Guy... Your family, friends, co-workers, boss, people in authority, people you must interact with in your daily life... are not all going to be "Nice" and all of them are not going to have your best interest at heart.

 

"Nice" Guys allow / give everyone else a say, input, power, control, etc. over their life. "Nice" Guys are slaves to everyone / everything around them. Problem is, Life is a FULL CONTACT SPORT and most people you meet / interact with are not going to be "Nice". We all have our own set of goals, agendas, desires, hopes, dreams and outcomes in mind. Normal people aren't like "Nice" Guys... We are not consumed with trying to make everyone around us "Happy" or worried about what they think.

 

"Nice" Guys are powerless, allow people to take advantage of what they think is their "Good" nature and it doesn't stop there either. They will continue to allow themselves to be taken advantage of and go back for more.

 

Why?

 

"Nice" Guys are more concerned about appearing / being "Nice" and what the other person thinks / feels. A "Nice" Guys own best interests are always a distant 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

 

The Two hardest things for a "Nice" Guy to ever say are...

 

I Want...

 

I Need...

 

Unless a "Nice" Guy knows how the other person will think about it, feel about, perceive it and respond to it... He can't / won't say it, ever!

 

To say either of those two things without thought, not knowing if it will be rejected or the consequences of it... It is the most TERRIFYING thing in the world to a "Nice" Guy.

 

If saying what you want / need regardless of what the other person thinks / feels / will respond to it shakes a "Nice" Guy to his very core... Why on earth would you ever believe he has what it takes to hold people accountable and enforce it. Truth is, he can't and he won't.

 

If I was a girl, I wouldn't want to be with a nice guy. There are also girls who act this way.

 

It's all about not letting anyone cross the boundaries you create. The second you compromise what you want is the second people will take advantage of you.

Grow New Member

Grow

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...

Don't worry so much, Gibson - if you fear that hard to be too nice, you probably will be never nice. :laugh:

I am a nice and decent guy. And I do compromise when in a relationship, and I say what I want, and I do not do anything my partner wants. And when Power Games take over, we split up. Was rather painful the last time around!

Still my argument is valid, and you did not reply to the actual content of it.

  • Like 2
KatZee Established Member

KatZee

Posted
Posted
To extend on this (above quote seems to come from "KatZee", btw):

A person that tries to take advantage of another person (the one that is "too nice") is already not a good person, naturally.

When that same person, when or after trying to take advantage, is being "put in place": How can he/she expect then that the newly dominant person (the "winner" of this destructive game) respects him/her? When clearly he/she wouldn't respect a person that is being dominated by him/herself?

Summary: Power Games are BS!

P.S.: If you want to read more about games (of whom the majority are destructive) read Berne's "Games people play". There are also some good summaries of it online (it is a bit of a hard read).

 

Clearly you need a bit of clarification on my original post.

 

It is in HUMAN NATURE that people become accustomed and "used to" being treated well. It's not because the person doing that is a crappy person, it's because once you've been in a relationship long enough, both get comfortable. And this is what CAN'T HAPPEN. People start to subtly start taking advantage. Expecting things.

 

A nice guy will sit back and make excuse for this behavior. It may not be intentionally done, it may not be happening because the love is leaving from one end, but people fall into the comfort zone, and "nice guys" enable this. They won't stand up to the other person and be like..."Hey I just did X,Y, and Z and I don't feel like you appreciated it at all..." They'll just be like, "Oh she was upset, or tired, or had a bad day, etc etc."

 

Hence, he becomes THE DOORMAT.

 

It's not just "bad people" that this happens to. It happens to EVERYONE. Stay with someone long enough and you'll see it happen to you as well.

  • Like 1
Grow New Member

Grow

Posted
Posted
Clearly you need a bit of clarification on my original post.

 

It is in HUMAN NATURE that people become accustomed and "used to" being treated well. It's not because the person doing that is a crappy person, it's because once you've been in a relationship long enough, both get comfortable. And this is what CAN'T HAPPEN. People start to subtly start taking advantage. Expecting things.

...

It's not just "bad people" that this happens to. It happens to EVERYONE. Stay with someone long enough and you'll see it happen to you as well.

Kat, that is one of the main things - apart from loads of great sex - what I am looking for in a relationship: Feeling comfortable. As comfortable as possible, actually! And it seems that your (and Gibson's) definition of a "nice guy" are miles apart from mine. Being generally nice, friendly, considerate, and having compassion for others, is one of my strengths, giving me "access" to quite a few good (and I mean good!) friends. And I find it easy to learn to know new people. Also, it is most likely that these traits are part of my nature. So I cannot be authentic without living out these traits. And yes, on the downside, that leaves me more vulnerable to manipulative people, and people in general. Life is full of risks and can be painful. I have to learn from my mistakes and grow stronger. If that now makes me a doormat - you are not welcome to take advantage!:rolleyes:

CptSaveAho Established Member

CptSaveAho

Posted
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Kat, that is one of the main things - apart from loads of great sex - what I am looking for in a relationship: Feeling comfortable. As comfortable as possible, actually! And it seems that your (and Gibson's) definition of a "nice guy" are miles apart from mine. Being generally nice, friendly, considerate, and having compassion for others, is one of my strengths, giving me "access" to quite a few good (and I mean good!) friends.

 

Hmmm, (nice guy)manipulation...

 

Life is full of risks and can be painful.

 

Cop-out. Lets close your eyes and continue being nice and pray that it works out in your favor in getting what you want.

 

FYI... if you werent such a nice guy... you would realize that you dont need to be in a relationship to have "LOADS OF GREAT SEX"

  • Like 1
Tree_Salmon Established Member

Tree_Salmon

Posted
Posted
Kat, that is one of the main things - apart from loads of great sex - what I am looking for in a relationship: Feeling comfortable. As comfortable as possible, actually! And it seems that your (and Gibson's) definition of a "nice guy" are miles apart from mine. Being generally nice, friendly, considerate, and having compassion for others, is one of my strengths, giving me "access" to quite a few good (and I mean good!) friends. And I find it easy to learn to know new people. Also, it is most likely that these traits are part of my nature. So I cannot be authentic without living out these traits. And yes, on the downside, that leaves me more vulnerable to manipulative people, and people in general. Life is full of risks and can be painful. I have to learn from my mistakes and grow stronger. If that now makes me a doormat - you are not welcome to take advantage!:rolleyes:

 

Sounds like allot of "nice guy" rationalizing to me.

 

You can have incredible friends and still maintain your confidence with women and integrity with everyone.

 

This isn't a compromise that you have to make. If you're getting used by manipulative people then you are allowing them into you're life and rationalizing the reasons for them to be there.

 

We are the cause of 95% of our own troubles.

 

oh, and incredible sex can be had regardless of any of these things.

carhill Established Member

carhill

Posted
Posted

Generosity is often rewarded with avarice, whether that be in the monetary sense or interpersonal sense.

 

So, IMO, yeah, if one is a generous and caring person, irrespective of quid pro quo, one can expect at some point, likely many points, to have that proactive generosity and care abused by other human beings. Goes with the territory. Accept it. When encountered, remove/erase the offending humans and march on. It works. Big world, lots of humans, short life. Make the most of it. Good luck.

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