Does being a nice guy eventually mean you will be treated like dirt?

October 12, 2012

I've always been told I'm a nice guy and that I'm caring, sensitive etc. and go out of my way for others. It's just who I am and I have no agenda, I just think its easier to be nice than nasty.

My ex of course was treated like a princess. I always asked about her day, bought small gifts for no reason, we always went out near her home etc. None of this was reciprocated and I never expected it to be - I don't do things so I get stuff in return.

I think because I did all this she showed me no respect and thought it was ok to treat me badly.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I be more selfish? Are there women out there who want to be cared for and wouldn't view me as a doormat for doing so?

I don't want to change but maybe I need to...

October 12, 2012

I've always been told I'm a nice guy and that I'm caring, sensitive etc. and go out of my way for others. It's just who I am and I have no agenda, I just think its easier to be nice than nasty.

My ex of course was treated like a princess. I always asked about her day, bought small gifts for no reason, we always went out near her home etc. None of this was reciprocated and I never expected it to be - I don't do things so I get stuff in return.

I think because I did all this she showed me no respect and thought it was ok to treat me badly.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I be more selfish? Are there women out there who want to be cared for and wouldn't view me as a doormat for doing so?

I don't want to change but maybe I need to...

The fact that you never expected it to be reciprocated is an issue.

You can be a sweet guy and still be the man.

You have to have respect for yourself.

You can care for a woman and not be used like a doormat. It's all about doing things because you want to, not because you have to. Don't expect anything from anyone.

Nobody wants to be treated like a princess.

They want a guy who can treat himself well.

October 12, 2012

IMO, not more 'selfish' but rather more pushback at 'be treated like dirt'. Strong boundaries and being a steely-eyed missile man when it comes to erasing people who breach them. Nothing more complex than that. Stay good; stay generous. Watch for similar proactive behaviors in those you encounter. Go from there. Good luck.

October 12, 2012

IMO, not more 'selfish' but rather more pushback at 'be treated like dirt'. Strong boundaries and being a steely-eyed missile man when it comes to erasing people who breach them. Nothing more complex than that. Stay good; stay generous. Watch for similar proactive behaviors in those you encounter. Go from there. Good luck.

Thanks - I feel it would be sad if I changed but maybe I need to be more aware.

October 12, 2012

The fact that you never expected it to be reciprocated is an issue.

You can be a sweet guy and still be the man.
You have to have respect for yourself.

You can care for a woman and not be used like a doormat. It's all about doing things because you want to, not because you have to. Don't expect anything from anyone.

Nobody wants to be treated like a princess.
They want a guy who can treat himself well.

I only ever did things I wanted to and I didn't expect them to be done in return. I'm not sure how I would have had that chat - she already accused me of being needy and I'm sure me saying things like 'you never buy me gifts' or 'you never ask about my day' wouldn't have helped. She obviously wasn't right for me but I'm not sure how I would do this one again either...

October 12, 2012

I only ever did things I wanted to and I didn't expect them to be done in return. I'm not sure how I would have had that chat - she already accused me of being needy and I'm sure me saying things like 'you never buy me gifts' or 'you never ask about my day' wouldn't have helped. She obviously wasn't right for me but I'm not sure how I would do this one again either...

"nice guys" tend to be needy and boring. It's hard to explain the whole way of thinking but I bet you came off very demanding no matter how nice you thought you were.

Confident, and a bit selfish is how you need to be. Being selfish isn't a bad thing. Also, control is an illusion.

October 12, 2012

"nice guys" tend to be needy and boring. It's hard to explain the whole way of thinking but I bet you came off very demanding no matter how nice you thought you were.

Confident, and a bit selfish is how you need to be. Being selfish isn't a bad thing. Also, control is an illusion.

The bit about being needy and boring is the thing I have most trouble with - does everyone assume this?

I don't think I was demanding - I never gave ultimatums and adjusted to her dynamic lifestyle.

What do you mean by "control is an illusion"?

October 12, 2012

"nice guys" tend to be needy and boring. It's hard to explain the whole way of thinking but I bet you came off very demanding no matter how nice you thought you were.

Confident, and a bit selfish is how you need to be. Being selfish isn't a bad thing. Also, control is an illusion.

I would emphasize "a bit". Some men tend to overdo on the selfishness and boundaries thing, to the point where it feels like HE'S actually USING and ABUSING the woman. This was the case with my ex. He was too selfish to even pick up the phone and call me once a week even. Selfish doesn't give green light to treat someone like dirt or not show any interest in them. If you're that selfish, it means you're using your partner for sex.

October 12, 2012

I don't think I was demanding - I never gave ultimatums and adjusted to her dynamic lifestyle.

By "demanding" he didn't mean "asking" for things or giving ultimatums. He meant that she thought she had to put in too much effort to keep you happy/satisfied. IMO, this excuse that people use to break up with their partners is bull****, though. Of course you need to put in effort to keep your partner satisfied. And you should be doing that without complaining, if you truly cared about them. For example, even if you hated making phone calls, if you knew that's what your partner wanted/needed -- regular communication -- you would be doing it. My ex didn't, and claimed it was "too much" -- that it was making him put in too much effort. That's BS. Sure, in some cases, it can get too much, but I don't think that's a very common occurence. In my case, it wasn't more than the expectation that he would call me every once in a while. I dare say in the case of men, it's even less intense...

October 12, 2012

I would emphasize "a bit". Some men tend to overdo on the selfishness and boundaries thing, to the point where it feels like HE'S actually USING and ABUSING the woman. This was the case with my ex. He was too selfish to even pick up the phone and call me once a week even. Selfish doesn't give green light to treat someone like dirt or not show any interest in them. If you're that selfish, it means you're using your partner for sex.

He sounds a douche. I spoke with my ex's plenty and was always supportive but I didn't need them to survive daily life. Using someone is just evil, not selfish.

"Control is an illusion" means just that. You can't make someone love you more because you handle them with gloves all day long. Nothing will ever be perfect.

October 12, 2012

He sounds a douche. I spoke with my ex's plenty and was always supportive but I didn't need them to survive daily life. Using someone is just evil, not selfish.

"Control is an illusion" means just that. You can't make someone love you more because you handle them with gloves all day long. Nothing will ever be perfect.

The "you" in my answer wasn't referring to you, obviously.

October 12, 2012

The "you" in my answer wasn't referring to you, obviously.

I know. I was using myself as the example. Your ex still sounds like a douche.

October 12, 2012

I've always been told I'm a nice guy and that I'm caring, sensitive etc. and go out of my way for others. It's just who I am and I have no agenda, I just think its easier to be nice than nasty.

My ex of course was treated like a princess. I always asked about her day, bought small gifts for no reason, we always went out near her home etc. None of this was reciprocated and I never expected it to be - I don't do things so I get stuff in return.

I think because I did all this she showed me no respect and thought it was ok to treat me badly.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I be more selfish? Are there women out there who want to be cared for and wouldn't view me as a doormat for doing so?

I don't want to change but maybe I need to...

Please god I ask that thsi guy not change....smilin......dont change or ill kick your ass......i am kidding cant kick ass over the internet....the world needs more nice guys much more.....also needs good women who appreciate nice guys.......so dont change.....change others opinions about what being a nice guy entails.Not all women see men as doormats.... nice guys who are not nice....they get theirs dotncha worry...normally when women divorce their ass before they kick it to the curb in the return favour form of hefty alimony payments.......

well in my case i walked away pretty much with what i had and he left me for an affair, so dont worry some times nice women cop it too and yeah ok i forgave him too after the fact....it isnt a reason to change to anything but be yourself though....you just havent found the right one dont give up hope or your standards your values that you hold close to your heart...yoru heart will be appreciated by a woman who deserves that..she is out there somewhere....best wishes....deb

October 12, 2012

On that note, my ex did not come across as needy. He couldn't have cared less if he didn't see me or hear my voice for weeks if not months. But he was actually demanding in the sense that he got upset if he didn't get his way or perceived that I was giving him the cold/silent treatmen, etc., even when I wasn't doing that. I guess that's a form of "neediness", though -- eventually, it got to the point where I had to walk on eggshells all the time to keep him satisfied and not have him pick a fight with me, or threaten to break up with me. That's the sort of selfishness I was talking about -- it amounts to abuse and it does come across as excessively needy/demanding.

October 12, 2012

Your ex still sounds like a douche.

Can't say I disagree.

October 12, 2012

On that note, my ex did not come across as needy. He couldn't have cared less if he didn't see me or hear my voice for weeks if not months. But he was actually demanding in the sense that he got upset if he didn't get his way or perceived that I was giving him the cold/silent treatmen, etc., even when I wasn't doing that. I guess that's a form of "neediness", though -- eventually, it got to the point where I had to walk on eggshells all the time to keep him satisfied and not have him pick a fight with me, or threaten to break up with me. That's the sort of selfishness I was talking about -- it amounts to abuse and it does come across as excessively needy/demanding.

Let me clarify : my ex did not come across as needy in the "traditional" sense of the word; needy as in, needing me to be around him all the time, etc.

October 12, 2012

On that note, my ex did not come across as needy. He couldn't have cared less if he didn't see me or hear my voice for weeks if not months. But he was actually demanding in the sense that he got upset if he didn't get his way or perceived that I was giving him the cold/silent treatmen, etc., even when I wasn't doing that. I guess that's a form of "neediness", though -- eventually, it got to the point where I had to walk on eggshells all the time to keep him satisfied and not have him pick a fight with me, or threaten to break up with me. That's the sort of selfishness I was talking about -- it amounts to abuse and it does come across as excessively needy/demanding.

That's the "little boy" syndrome. It's different from the OP's attitude but just as extreme.

A guy should be a perfect balance of knowing what he wants and how to get it but having confidence and integrity.

Good men are hard to find but we exist.

October 12, 2012

That's the "little boy" syndrome. It's different from the OP's attitude but just as extreme.

A guy should be a perfect balance of knowing what he wants and how to get it but having confidence and integrity.

Good men are hard to find but we exist.

What's the little boy syndrome? Never heard of it before.

October 12, 2012

You need to take about 10-20 seconds to pretend like you're deciding whether or not you'll do something for her. It's a really easy first step.. just try it kiddo.

October 12, 2012

Thanks for all the replies. I had not been accused of being needy before and genuinely don't think I am. To clarify, she told me recently she sees herself as a solo person and said she did not ever want to have to consider me in her other plans or decisions (holidays, trips, nights out) - if she had spare time and I was available then it was fine. I did not expect a monopoly on her time but to me that just felt like a lack of commitment. I could never make any plans with her at all and would only ever be given a day or two's notice if she was free. If I had other plans then we couldn't meet and if I break my other plans then I'm a doormat. I couldn't envisage a life where I have to keep my diary empty to suit someone else who may or may not want to go out.

This didn't feel healthy - or am I wrong?

Edited October 12, 2012 by JSJS
Typo plus extra line.

October 12, 2012

I've always been told I'm a nice guy and that I'm caring, sensitive etc. and go out of my way for others. It's just who I am and I have no agenda, I just think its easier to be nice than nasty.

My ex of course was treated like a princess. I always asked about her day, bought small gifts for no reason, we always went out near her home etc. None of this was reciprocated and I never expected it to be - I don't do things so I get stuff in return.

I think because I did all this she showed me no respect and thought it was ok to treat me badly.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I be more selfish? Are there women out there who want to be cared for and wouldn't view me as a doormat for doing so?

I don't want to change but maybe I need to...

That's the thing. You look for the easy way out. You're not looking for what is best for you and her, you're looking for what's easy. And that's going to bite you in the ass every single time in every aspect of life. So yes, if you continue doing this, people will treat you like dirt.

October 12, 2012

That's the thing. You look for the easy way out. You're not looking for what is best for you and her, you're looking for what's easy. And that's going to bite you in the ass every single time in every aspect of life. So yes, if you continue doing this, people will treat you like dirt.

I'm confused I didn't mean it was easier to be nice - I know some nasty people and their life seems stressful and chaotic to me and I know it isn't easy for them. I just choose it as a better way to live.

I thought I was doing the best thing for us both and that was by to create a nice relationship and be a gentleman. I didn't ever suffer by what I did, but I guess it can be perceived as being too much of a pushover.

October 12, 2012

Yes. (10 Characters)

October 12, 2012

Thanks for all the replies. I had not been accused of being needy before and genuinely don't think I am. To clarify, she told me recently she sees herself as a solo person and said she did not ever want to have to consider me in her other plans or decisions (holidays, trips, nights out) - if she had spare time and I was available then it was fine. I did not expect a monopoly on her time but to me that just felt like a lack of commitment. I could never make any plans with her at all and would only ever be given a day or two's notice if she was free. If I had other plans then we couldn't meet and if I break my other plans then I'm a doormat. I couldn't envisage a life where I have to keep my diary empty to suit someone else who may or may not want to go out.

This didn't feel healthy - or am I wrong?

Yup. That's what it is -- a lack of commitment. She wanted a FWB arrangement, not a relationship. It hurts, but that's the truth. My ex told me the same exact thing, and then said he wanted FWB. Your ex sounds EXACTLY like mine. He wanted me to be on-call for when he wanted to meet up, so if I wanted to meet up, I had to put everything on hold because I didn't know when he might feel like meeting up. He wouldn't even tell me 2 days ahead of time - he would tell me the same day , a few hours before. And if I did put everything on hold because I wanted to meet him, he would feel like I didn't have a life. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It was an impossible situation. In hindsight, I should've just let go and stopped putting my plans on hold for him, even if that meant not seeing him more than once in 2 weeks (even though he doesn't live in my city so it's a LDR and I wanted to make use of the time that he was here, to meet up often).

Edited October 12, 2012 by NoMoreJerks

October 12, 2012

I'm confused I didn't mean it was easier to be nice - I know some nasty people and their life seems stressful and chaotic to me and I know it isn't easy for them. I just choose it as a better way to live.

I thought I was doing the best thing for us both and that was by to create a nice relationship and be a gentleman. I didn't ever suffer by what I did, but I guess it can be perceived as being too much of a pushover.

It isn't easy to be nice sometimes its freaking hard.....to be nice i have wanted to tie half a dozen people to ceiling fans......one day i may just get there....you know what you should do follow your own heart what your heart tells you to be like follow that ...people get used even nasty people get used they are the ones who end up doing something nasty back......doesnt pay.....nice ones grieve feel despondant and move on a lot faster actually...lol...well sometimes to form loving relationships because they dont hold bitterness.... and yes they forgive as they would want to be forgiven ........why hold a grudge that turns to bitterness......dont....move on and i wish you hope ......and here is a hug from me to you.....deb

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