Update: Part 3

[2sunny]

You say you have a stance - but I'm just not seeing what that might be... Because you're using so much justification about bad behavior to try and make it acceptable.

 

Why is it so hard to have a boundary. There's no judgment in having a healthy boundary... Yet you keep justifying all his crap by saying you don't judge...bs- you SHOULD have SOME idea that he's exhibited crappy behavior!

 

Unacceptable behavior can never be dressed up to look acceptable.

[2sunny]

I typed all of this out the other day, and then hit some random button and it disappeared. So, got my coffee, and here goes try #2...

 

I began seeing exMM in 2004. We met through mutual friends, and I had no idea that he was M, as I was new to the area. Mutual friends did know, and did not tell me. Their explanation later was that they thought he and I would be "good" together, and they thought he needed to get out of his M. Don't worry, I gave them hell for not giving me a heads up, as they all knew that I would not pursue or become involved with a M man. Anyway, I did, and found out 3 weeks later that he was M. I made a decision at that time, I struggled back and forth, but eventually, decided to go on with it. I own that 100%. ExMM's explanation for it? "You wouldn't have had anything to do with me if you had known, and I knew that we would click." And again, don't worry, I gave him hell for that too. I hate making decisions when I don't have all the information that I need. But, that's all water under the bridge now.

 

So, we did hit it off. I was a former BW. Married young, and divorce was finalized in 2001. ExH and I tried to reconcile for 2 years, didn't work, we just weren't right for each other, no matter how much we loved one another, eh, it happens. So, I had been free and clear for about a year. I had moved 600 miles away from everything I had known and was enjoying the single life while attending graduate school. I was dating, but just not finding anyone that I really wanted to spend time with... until ExMM.

 

So, we meet, and everything is fantastic. We are very honest with one another (after I confront him with being married), and the relationship lasts for the next 7 years. I did try to end it, many times. Not bc I didn't love exMM, or any "major" issues in our relationship, but mostly bc I became frustrated with him and his W and their apparent inability to handle their own business. W knew about me from the get go. She knew my name, where I lived, etc. She stalked me a little, but never confronted me. I always told MM, I will NOT lie to her, but since he wasn't lying to her either, it didn't really matter. She obviously chose to not handle it, which is kind of how she lives her entire life. I don't understand it bc I'm not that girl, but hey, it takes all kinds.

 

So, we go on for 7 years, with me occasionally breaking it off to date SGs. He didn't like that part of it, but he knew he couldn't say much. And, although I loved him, I'm not new, and I knew that I deserved a chance at a relationship that wasn't an A. I really did give them an honest effort, but I live in an area that is FAR more conservative than I am and it's really difficult to find someone here with my same beliefs and views, not to mention finding someone that I'm actually attracted to.

 

In April of 2011, I decided to end the relationship with exMM. I still loved him, very much so, but I was done with the A. I was tired of being the band aid for he and his W so that they could continue to live in their fantasy world. I was tired of sacrificing things that I wanted in a relationship so that they could carry on as a 2 income family in an ostentatious house. So, I ended it. ExMM begged for 4 months. He tried to change things, he promised me all kinds of things (not divorce bc he was terrified of that). But, when I'm done, I'm just done. They had plenty of time in 7 years to sort their business and they didn't. I'm a person who confronts life head on, and I was exhausted with their inability to do the same.

 

So, I give myself some time to heal, and then begin to date. All SGs, no more MM for me, ever. What I had with exMM was a one time thing, and not something I was looking for in life. ExMM then entered into what I think was an exit affair for him. With me taking away the band aid that was literally holding their marriage together, they quickly fell apart. ExMm began to see another OW, who went into the R knowing that he was M. However, she was quickly not content and began to show up at his familial home, his workplace, and began to have tantrums in his street with all the neighbors watching. At this point, ExMMs wife was (imo) FORCED to handle these issues. W wasn't surprised, or mad. She knew that he and I had broken up as they had a really rough patch while he tried to handle his grief about me ending the A. I was the balm that was no longer there, and they were forced to face one another in a very real way.

 

So, W decides that she can no longer ignore the issues in their M, and files for D. ExMM moves out. He is still in contact with me occasionally (we do run into each other somewhat frequently, small town and all), but now, we are talking and nothing else. Mostly, I am providing him counseling. I am far enough removed from the situation at this point, a year and a half later, that it's fine with me. Although I do continue on with my own life, dating, working, etc. At this point, it's nothing more to me than talking to an old friend who is having a difficult time. ExMM decides that he wants to reconcile with his family. He doesn't want to give up seeing his child daily, or his home (his dream house according to him), the years that they have been together. However, he and W both have become aware that they are obviously not a good fit. Wife is not a communicator. She is the girl who just looks the other way, and he becomes quickly frustrated with this bc obviously, a reconciliation of any type is going to take a LOT of communicating about issues. She refuses, and continues to be the person that she has always been, obviously. (Not saying it's all her fault, but honestly, they are about as wrongly matched as my exH and I were... not that we didn't love each other, but it just happens sometimes).

 

So, ExMM contacts me and wants to talk. He states that he has tried to reconcile for the sake of his family (him, W, and children), but that he realizes that W is never going to be the type of person he wants in a R. He states that he was willing to try to make it work bc he felt guilty for the A, and not really putting his energy into the M bc he was so frustrated. He states that he now feels that he has given it an honest effort and it's just not going to work bc he and W both want the other to be someone that they just aren't. He now wants to focus on being happy, on finding peace in his life. He now feels like he can walk away knowing that he honestly tried and it just didn't work.

 

Where do I come in? Well, he wants to know if I would be willing to try to see if he and I can have a relationship. Without it being an A. I am caught completely off guard. Not bc I ever doubted his feelings for me, or me for him, I didn't. But I learned long ago, love only goes so far, and is truly only one piece of making a relationship work. He doesn't want to rush, he wants to make good decisions for himself and his child. He has always had feelings for me, and has always believed that he and I could have had one of those rare relationships if it had been under different circumstances.

 

I have healed. I have gotten past him. Not that I ever stopped loving him, that's now how I work. But, I had gotten to the point that it didn't hurt anymore to hear of him with someone else. That I was comfortable in knowing that he loved me but that we just couldn't be together bc he wanted to try to make good on his M. I would talk to him about his feelings, his thoughts, and I had the luxury of being removed from it emotionally. We were able to maintain our friendship, the basis of our understanding of one another, and it didn't hurt.

 

So now, I'm just here trying to read, and gain insight. I know what my heart wants to do, no problem. But I also remember that love is just one tiny piece of that puzzle. Is it enough for he and I at this point? I have no idea. Am I willing to get reinvolved emotionally with him? I'm not sure. I love him, absolutely. I wish him well in life, and I want him to be happy. But, am I willing to give this a try? I'm not sure. He has been wise, and has been focusing on his M, and getting his head straight. He is now, imo, out of the fog. He is seeing things more clearly now, as is his W it appears. There is no shame, imo, of realizing that you married the wrong person. Or, in trying to find happiness once you realize this.

 

I'm not saying I'm the right person, there are more than one right persons in this life for everyone. But, I am probably a good chance at being one of those people for him and he for me. I have missed him. I do love him. I'm just not sure that I'm willing to reinvest at this time. It's been nice, this single life of no responsibility to anyone else. Of living my life for me alone. Of making decisions based on only me.

 

So, I'm not even sure what I'm looking for on this board. I'm just looking at all angles I guess, analyzing. And, giving myself somewhere to vent about it all. I like to make my decisions with a LOT of information. I'm now gaining that information... from here, and from exMM too. The other night we talked for 4 hours. We talked about everything... Us, him, me, his M, the reconciliation efforts, the other OW after me, where his head is, where his feelings are... everything. He isn't pressuring me for answers, he knows that we have a LOT of communicating to do before anything is decided. Good thing is, we are both communicators. We are both analytic people who like to have all the info, and that's what we are doing now I guess. Gathering intel.

 

So, I was initially feeling pretty confused. Now, I'm just feeling like I can't make any kind of decision as of yet, bc I need more info. Some of that info will be seeing how he handles all of these issues while they finalize their divorce. I do, however, believe that no matter what happens with he and I that he and his W will be SO much happier once this is all over. And I think that they both deserve that. I don't think anyone deserves to have to be in a LT relationship with someone that they aren't happy with simply because at one point they thought that they could make it. These things happen, it's nobody's fault.

 

So, that's my long story. Thought I'd give some background to everyone. So, I'm not the OW anymore (at least I don't think so?), and I won't be ever again. But I was hoping to find someone else that was maybe in a similar situation in that I might gain some insight. Thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to interacting on the boards!

 

Yep - SHE filed - he wanted to reconcile.

 

YOU are second choice no matter what way you WANT to look at it.

 

And stop telling me you didn't say it - you did type that!

[twinsmom]

This thread, and the many that came before it, is so confounding that I can no longer keep up with the saga. OP, I mean no disrepect to you, but I must tell you that the reading of your situation has made me so much happier that I am no longer involved with that kind of drama! Again, I am free, and I have never been happier in my life!!

 

I want to extend thanks to anyone on this forum who helped me arrive at this glorious point, and to extend a delayed apology to BentnotBroken, who I sparred with a time or two a long time ago. While I might not always agree with her methods of knocking someone over the head, knocking over the head is what we all seem to need, so thanks. BNB..

 

I'm FREE!!!!!

[alexandria35]

Well, we definitely view this differently, you and I. I agree, it's not nice to use people. However, some people agree to be used - they like it, or don't mind it or whatever. Or, they are getting something too - which she obviously was. She had a crush on him since they were teenagers and had always wanted to "be with" him... so, she got her wish, and was. And she enjoyed it - and then, got upset bc it didn't turn out to be more than what he told her he was willing to give.

 

According to you, nobody should ever be FWBs either then - bc they are just "using" each other. However, imo, consenting adults can do what they wish, as long as they are not lying to someone, and in this situation, there was no lying. Everyone involved knew the situation and agreed to participate.

 

I don't question his sincerity at all. He's human, he needs/wants companionship and human touch, like we all do. When he couldn't have me, which is what he really wanted, he made do with her. It happens. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with, ya know? People do it all the time. Is it nice? Probably not - but it's life. As long as you are honest with others about what you want, what you are willing to give - I don't see the harm in it. Unless one person changes their mind (falls in love?) and then decides that it's not enough and DEMANDS the same from the other person - who never agreed to it in the first place!

 

I get what you are saying. And, if he had lied to her, tricked her, manipulated her, etc. Yes, I would be disgusted. But he didn't. He didn't do any of these things to his stbxw either. So, no, it wasn't his best moment that he was using her as a filler - but it is what it is. She knew it, accepted it, then changed her mind - that's on her. He tried to end it and she went ballistic and had tantrums everywhere - bc she STILL wanted to be in the relationship.

 

I'm attracted to a LOT of things about him. As was she, apparently (for like 30 years or something!) He's a live person with a lot of qualities, good and bad. And, if I ever felt used by him, I wouldn't accept it like she did, that's what I would choose, how I would handle it. Maybe she's the one that settled and then felt bad about it later when he decided that he didn't even want that little bit from her any longer?

 

You are correct in that I don't really believe in the whole FWB thing either. To me the term - friends with benefits - is a contradiction itself, because to my way of thinking true friends would never use each other that way. It would cheapen the friendship. For me when it comes to sex, I want the whole enchilada. I want to experience the whole physical, emotional and mental connection. Friends with benefits is just enhanced masturbation.

 

As for the OOW, if she had a crush on the MM since her teen years and he knew this then all the more reason he should have steered clear of her. Instead he knew her weakness and her hearts desire and took advantage of that. You know it's perfectly possible to go through life without using people or taking advantage of their weak spots. You make it sound like if someone presents themselves as willing to be used then one has no choice but to take them up on that offer. It's also possible to get through a year or more without having sex with someone you don't really want to be with. Again you make it sound like this poor poor man just had no choice but to do the OOW since he couldn't be with you. Why couldn't he wait until he met someone he did respect and want to be with? How can you respect that? Do you just sleep with whomever happens to be available? If not then why do you excuse this behaviour in the MM?

[2sunny]

This MM supposedly has a therapist he's working with - it may be best to stay out of his process through this transitionary timeframe.

 

He needs a neutral party giving him direction to change the core being of himself.

 

Your kind and compassionate self isn't the best self to listen at this juncture - in fact, it's more likely making him even MORE confused about what he REALLY needs to be doing.

 

He's got work to do on HIMSELF. Allow him the time and room to DO THAT!

[Mount]

Totally agree. All the key strokes are pointless. AR and us are at different pages, not talking apple to apple.

 

I think AR knows she is not getting anywhere with her MM whom she is currently obsessed with, but she wants to convince HERSELF the value of her MM, thus no audience actually required.

 

It's really pointless to respond to this thread. If you say anything that the OP doesn't want to hear or consider, you're out. A lot of good questions and advice have been written about, but flagged.

 

I'm out. Am sure this will be flagged quickly too..

 

I don't think the OP has ever asked a question, just wants blind, unquestioning, support for her point of view. LS, to her, is a journal, blogging experience.

 

Good luck AR...

[2sunny]

Personally - I think AR has this MM completely OVERVALUED!

 

 

His big pile of poop has been all shined up to look nice and pretty... Underneath he's still that same old pile of poop.

[veryinteresting]

This story gets more and more confusing. I think the moral of the story here is that you create a very tangled web when you embellish the truth and soon you get caught up in your own lies by making all sorts of contradictory statements. In your "Angry - Part 2," post I can point to several contradictory statements that makes one question whether you think the emails are from his wife (they are still married), or from another female entirely. The only thought that come to my mind is: why?

[MissBee]

AR does anything in your professional background/training include bully oad you are standing up anyway.

 

I'm sorry but I have to speak up on this. I think the term bullying is often tossed around this forum in a completely unwarranted way that is actually not the definition of what it means to be bullied.

 

Bullying: Bullying may be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another person, physically or mentally. Bullying is characterized by an individual behaving in a certain way to gain power over another person.

 

On a message board, it's so easy to construe any disagreement or if several people have the same opinions about a situation and express them it's termed bullying. I see a few people commenting that they think it's weird that AR posts constantly and others say her story seems contradictory to them...how is it bullying for people to state those opinions? I did not see anyone bullying AR and if anyone is, please report them. Thank God we have moderators who can make that call, as often times it seems people like to encourage others to believe they are being bullied when they aren't. What kind of mentality is that? Instigator? You have bullies and you also have instigators, i.e. people who like to see fights so urge people on and encourage them to feel like they're being wronged so they can start something.

 

Anyway...I had to speak up on that because when people esp kids are really being cyber bullied on the internet...which is that there are people DELIBERATELY berating and trying to hurt them, intimidate them, coerce them and over power them...I find it irritating when grown folks on an online board, in which no one is doing any such thing (most times) yell bullying. It makes a mockery of a real issue IMO. I don't know if this post will be considered bullying by someone's definition (which seems to be any kind of dissent), or if others like/comment on it, they will be in my "gang" and using gang mentality...but I'm not saying this to hurt you, coerce you, intimidate you or have power over you. I'm simply commenting on an issue.

 

PS. I am not saying adults can't cyberbully...I'm sure they can but I think LS's moderators are pretty good and would close down such a thread and ban/infract bullies esp repeat offenders. But pretty much every time the bullying thing comes up...no such action is taken.

Edited October 13, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

It's really pointless to respond to this thread. If you say anything that the OP doesn't want to hear or consider, you're out. A lot of good questions and advice have been written about, but flagged.

 

I'm out. Am sure this will be flagged quickly too..

 

I don't think the OP has ever asked a question, just wants blind, unquestioning, support for her point of view. LS, to her, is a journal, blogging experience.

 

Good luck AR...

 

I don't think LS should be used as one's journal/blog...there's an app for that!

 

If everyone came here to just post their own musings that no one should respond to...it would not be a discussion board...but a journal/my thoughts board.

 

If you put anything on the board...it's up for discussion. They do have a journal/blog feature on here I believe. Not sure if it's for paying members or what...but I've seen it. I think if one wants to just blog then one is misusing threads. There is also a personal/rant section which is more suited to stream of consciousness type posts that aren't really that much about discussion...but better suited to venting.

 

We all need to vent...but you must realize venting on a discussion board opens you up to scrutiny, questions and varied input versus venting in your personal, private diary.

[MissBee]

This thread, and the many that came before it, is so confounding that I can no longer keep up with the saga. OP, I mean no disrepect to you, but I must tell you that the reading of your situation has made me so much happier that I am no longer involved with that kind of drama! Again, I am free, and I have never been happier in my life!!

 

I want to extend thanks to anyone on this forum who helped me arrive at this glorious point, and to extend a delayed apology to BentnotBroken, who I sparred with a time or two a long time ago. While I might not always agree with her methods of knocking someone over the head, knocking over the head is what we all seem to need, so thanks. BNB..

 

I'm FREE!!!!!

 

 

 

Hi Twinsmom,

 

So glad you're doing well!

 

I must say, I didn't really comment on this thread before as I didn't really feel I had anything constructive to add. After the nth one, my only response is, if this isn't enough to steer clear, I wish AR much luck, should she proceed with this very tumultuous situation and this very feeble-willed man.

 

I personally have no interest or time for such a setup, as just reading it makes my head hurt and I too felt like I was glad it isn't me or my life. I can't be in a relationship that needs so much explanation, dissection, RO, crazy OOW, wives and the lot. Maybe I'm boring...

 

But AR I actually do wish you luck. My HONEST feelings are: I wish you'd run far away from this man and find one whom you don't need to blog about and dissect and counsel and explain to others. Every man is human...but not every human has these types of issues. It IS possible to find a decent, unmarried man, who isn't fooling around, whom you don't need to counsel and where the goodness of your relationship is very apparent to all looking ---no special lens needed. I wish that for you and every OW/OM who comes here with one epistle after another about the same effed up scenario. So no, I won't lie and say I think your situation with MM is so wonderful. But if I'm just blind and I'm misguided and you actually think this is what you deserve...then I hope you get it. If it isn't, I hope you get something even better and perhaps get to a point where making judgments isn't bad and where helping your SO isn't the main role of your relationship and where you can just BE and not dissect.

[woinlove]

I'm sorry but I have to speak up on this. I think the term bullying is often tossed around this forum in a completely unwarranted way that is actually not the definition of what it means to be bullied.

 

Bullying: Bullying may be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another person, physically or mentally. Bullying is characterized by an individual behaving in a certain way to gain power over another person.

 

On a message board, it's so easy to construe any disagreement or if several people have the same opinions about a situation and express them it's termed bullying. I see a few people commenting that they think it's weird that AR posts constantly and others say her story seems contradictory to them...how is it bullying for people to state those opinions? I did not see anyone bullying AR and if anyone is, please report them. Thank God we have moderators who can make that call, as often times it seems people like to encourage others to believe they are being bullied when they aren't. What kind of mentality is that? Instigator? You have bullies and you also have instigators, i.e. people who like to see fights so urge people on and encourage them to feel like they're being wronged so they can start something.

 

Anyway...I had to speak up on that because when people esp kids are really being cyber bullied on the internet...which is that there are people DELIBERATELY berating and trying to hurt them, intimidate them, coerce them and over power them...I find it irritating when grown folks on an online board, in which no one is doing any such thing (most times) yell bullying. It makes a mockery of a real issue IMO. I don't know if this post will be considered bullying by someone's definition (which seems to be any kind of dissent), or if others like/comment on it, they will be in my "gang" and using gang mentality...but I'm not saying this to hurt you, coerce you, intimidate you or have power over you. I'm simply commenting on an issue.

 

PS. I am not saying adults can't cyberbully...I'm sure they can but I think LS's moderators are pretty good and would close down such a thread and ban/infract bullies esp repeat offenders. But pretty much every time the bullying thing comes up...no such action is taken.

 

Good post, MB, but I've come to see any mention of bullying on this forum as the lack of an argument. After all, bullying is against the TOS and is to be reported. Meanwhile, those without arguments often slam groups of posters and use overblown terms like bullying, extremists, etc. Ignore works well, IMO.

 

AR, I'm really not sure what to say about your rant against a mentally ill person, and I'm assuming she is mentally ill if she was committed to a psychiatric hospital against her will. Mental illness is indeed difficult for everyone involved. I hope she gets the medical help she needs.

[cocorico]

AR, I have also had to deal with a nut job who obsessed about my then-BF after he left his M, who thought that stalking me and harassing me would magically make him interested in her. It's not easy. I'm glad your situation seems to be resolving itself so neatly.

 

Your grace under fire

Edited October 13, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed offending comment

[AnotherRound]

Threats should never be taken lightly. I wish I had gotten a restraining order when I got the first email.

 

You think that just because it starts with an email that it can't escalate? That's really naive and foolish. I hope it never happens to you, with all my heart, but trust me sometimes these things are EXACTLY what the courts need to be dealing with.

 

People rarely overreact about these things, they tend to underreact when there is really a problem and by the time people realize there is a problem it can be too late.

The thing is there are some crazy people out there and if you look you can see exactly how this topic can inspire hatred and fear and a whole lot of emotions. All it takes is an unstable individual for it to become threatening, menacing or violent.

 

That was my thought exactly. After hearing about her escalation from exMM and several others that know her, I was not interested in letting her work her way into my life in any manner. I have nothing to say to her, nor do I care what she has to say. She is a complete stranger to me - and I would like to keep it that way. From what I have seen and heard, I have zero interest in forming any ties with her in my life at all. I wanted to assert my boundaries quickly and firmly - letting her know immediately that I would not be playing her games.

 

I have no idea why she is focusing on me. I've done nothing to her, ever - but still my guess is that since she couldn't get to exMM or his stbxw, that she thought I might be the gateway to him. It's like, she wants to be in his life in any way that she can - even if it's simply on the peripheral. I don't understand it, nor do I care to participate in it. And I wanted her to know that immediately. It's the same way that I handle a child who is exhibiting childish behaviors - when they push the line, I assert the line firmly - I don't waiver on it at all, or they think they can continue to push to get their way. They have to know very quickly that I'm not pushable, that there are things that are absolutely non-negotiable - or they tantrum in an effort to get their way. I don't humor tantrums, I pay them no attention whatsoever - bc I don't want to reinforce that negative attention seeking.

 

I have no idea what will happen after she gets out of the hospital. My hope is that she is now going to see that she needs help and have the resources to get that help. Some mood stabilizers might not be a bad idea, imo, as she seems to be all over the place in that regard.

 

ExMM was glad that it sorted itself out so quickly. He does not want any more drama with this woman, as in his mind she has caused enough as it is. She has continued to try to talk to anyone that may know him in an effort to work her way back into his life. He gave her the respect of having a face to face, explained that he does not want a relationship of any kind with her, and she has just not been able to deal. I give her 100% responsibility for her behaviors, her reactions - and honestly wonder if this isn't some sort of narcissistic injury she's experiencing bc her reactions appear to be WAY over the top considering the circumstances. People get broken up with every day - how many react in this way? I'm betting it's a pretty small number, bc it simply isn't normal to stalk and beg and try to force someone to be with you. Most of us just accept that the other person is done with the relationship.

 

I spoke with my ex boyfriend last night, the PO, and he just confirmed what I thought about the situation. He had his own perceptions of the situation and shared with me what he observed with her and what he thought about her behaviors when she was arrested. He lives only a block away from me now and he always keeps an eye out on my house for me anyway - but will be looking for her. If she shows up, I won't have to do anything as he knows her now and said that he will handle it. He was actually concerned of what she may be capable of bc of her recent behaviors towards the police, and then when they got to the hospital. I also discussed with him what my options are as far as protecting myself, and in our state we have the castle law. That combined with the RO that I have, he explained that I have every right to use whatever force necessary on my own property to protect my life. His thought was that if she shows up at all, that I should be in fear for my life, bc he believes that she is "unhinged" (his words, not mine), and he told me not to under react (exactly like you said LFH!) and to treat it as a life endangering incident if she shows up. He knows what I have in my house to protect myself with and said that everything I have falls under "whatever force necessary" and that I would be completely within my legal rights - especially since she made threats against me TO the police. So, already pre-meditated to do harm.

 

Anyway, all is quiet around here, thankfully. I will not live my life in fear, nor will I let her antics stifle my life in any way. I'm sorry she is unwell, I'm sorry that she is hurt and cannot self soothe (or even seek help), but I'm hopeful that this situation will teach her that she cannot act out erratically just bc she can't cope. I have coped with much worse than a break up in my life, I have no idea how she has gotten this far in life if she can't even handle such a routine and normal life experience. I wish her well, but have absolutely no desire to be involved with her or her acting out in any way.

[cocorico]

Threats should never be taken lightly. I wish I had gotten a restraining order when I got the first email.

 

You think that just because it starts with an email that it can't escalate? That's really naive and foolish. I hope it never happens to you, with all my heart, but trust me sometimes these things are EXACTLY what the courts need to be dealing with.

 

People rarely overreact about these things, they tend to underreact when there is really a problem and by the time people realize there is a problem it can be too late.

The thing is there are some crazy people out there and if you look you can see exactly how this topic can inspire hatred and fear and a whole lot of emotions. All it takes is an unstable individual for it to become threatening, menacing or violent.

 

Just to add to this: obviously laws vary depending on where you live, but the laws that governed the situation that affected me were clear. "Repeated" unsolicited harassment meant more than a single instance. So if the OOW had followed up her initial mail to AR with a second, she'd have been guilty of a crime had this taken place in the same country as the incidents I had to deal with. I've yet to meet any law enforcement officer who has said that you should only start considering your options at the point where the crime has already been committed.

[AnotherRound]

AR, I have also had to deal with a nut job who obsessed about my then-BF after he left his M, who thought that stalking me and harassing me would magically make him interested in her. It's not easy. I'm glad your situation seems to be resolving itself so neatly.

 

Your grace under fire

 

Thank you. I almost handled it differently... oh, how I wanted to react to her after her baiting emails. I'm glad I didn't now, as she effortlessly dug her own hole. I am hopeful that she gets help now - I know she is getting intensive therapy in the hospital, and hopefully the doctors there will see her instability and treat her. I honestly think that she may not even be ill - just childish and spoiled. ???? Either way, her behaviors are unacceptable - and I see no reason for me to have to deal with her - she is a complete stranger to me.

 

I also wonder how long she will do this. As in, follow exMM around and try to work her way into any relationship he tries to have. ???? It makes me very sad for her, bc she ends up looking so immature and unable to cope. People around here are avoiding her like the plague - bc of her actions and the drama she brings wherever she goes. It's so sad.

 

I'm hopeful that the whole thing is over. I'm probably being too hopeful, all things considered, in hoping that. But, at this point, I'm considering it done and over with. At least now I have legal recourse if she tries to work her way into my life again. I don't want her in my life, and certainly don't have to allow people into my life that I don't want there - even though she obviously disagrees. I won't communicate with her at all - I will follow the letter of the law and she can have her natural consequences. I just hope that she doesn't really ever threaten my life in any way - I hope it doesn't get to that point, bc that would be ugly, and I have no desire to harm her - but won't let myself be harmed either. She seems to thrive off of trying to force people to do things, anything - I hope it never comes to that.

 

Did your crazy person just go away? How did you resolve it? I honestly have never dealt with someone like this in my personal life. I find myself quizzically looking at the situation and thinking, wtf? I cannot get my brain around it honestly, bc it just seems so surreal! Like a caricature of a "real" person - something you'd see in a movie, not IRL.

[AnotherRound]

Just to add to this: obviously laws vary depending on where you live, but the laws that governed the situation that affected me were clear. "Repeated" unsolicited harassment meant more than a single instance. So if the OOW had followed up her initial mail to AR with a second, she'd have been guilty of a crime had this taken place in the same country as the incidents I had to deal with. I've yet to meet any law enforcement officer who has said that you should only start considering your options at the point where the crime has already been committed.

 

So true! With this lady, she just escalated so quickly - there wasn't much time between the first and second email. Just days - and it was like bc she wasn't getting a reply from me, she amped up so quickly. And then, combined with the message she sent to exMM as if everything was normal and there hadn't been all of this harassment - it was just too weird.

 

Talking to exMM the other night, he revealed even more of the tactics she tried to use to force him to be with her. Including, threatening suicide - after she threatened all kinds of other things and they didn't work. It's so strange to me. She apparently was contacting the local newspaper and wanting to put ads in the paper about him, contacted his attorney repeatedly (who finally threatened legal action if she didn't stop harassing her!), was actually following him around in her car. Weird stuff... like a LifeTime movie!

 

I am confident that I have enough protection in place that I'm not in danger - or at least, no danger that I can't defend myself from. My ex boyfriend said that he would let me know when she is released from the hospital, but she is going straight to the local jail from there he said. He wants me to be prepared for anything as he is concerned as to what she will do once released. He is going to "assess" her when he gets her to the jail - and let me know. She will be presented with my RO by the police, and he said he would personally warn her from contacting me in any format. She will be well aware of the consequences - the choice is hers after that.

 

I just want my life to go back to normal! lol I have no time or energy for this kind of behavior, honestly. I have too much to do, and any sympathy I had for the woman is wearing off quickly bc she is NOT getting it. I do NOT want to be her friend, her enemy, or anything to her. I want nothing to do with her, no reason to have anything to do with her. It was just a break up, jaysus... !

[AnotherRound]

Personally - I think AR has this MM completely OVERVALUED!

 

 

His big pile of poop has been all shined up to look nice and pretty... Underneath he's still that same old pile of poop.

 

This could be true. I obviously don't believe it to be true, based on my interactions with him and such. But, as I said before, you may very well turn out to be right. But for me, I will never know unless I try. The dynamics have changed considerably with his divorce, and I have a feeling that if I don't at least try, then I will always wonder.

 

If I try, and he really is a big pile of poop (as you said lol!), then shame on me. But at least I will KNOW. And at that point, I can walk away without any doubt in my mind at all that it was the right thing to do.

 

It's so weird bc my best friend (also a mental health professional) and I had this exact conversation the other day! She said the same thing, that she is concerned that I would wonder my whole life, and then not be able to close the door on him like I should if it is truly over. She knows me well, and she has her own opinions of him, and I respect her opinion and perspective - but as she says, only he and I know what our relationship is and what we get from it. I know that for me, if I don't at least try with him when he is single, I will always wonder. I like to have closure - if he treats me like crap, or turns out to be exactly opposite of what I believe him to be - there is no doubt that I can wash my hands of the situation and walk away free and clear. I've done it before, I can and will do it again if necessary.

 

It's a risk, sure. Any relationship is a risk. It's a risk that I'm willing to take at this point - and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not going into it blind, I won't be blindsided. But, I also might end up having the relationship that I think we could have, free and clear. If not, not the end of the world - I would have tried, and I can accept if it doesn't work out.

[Stephanie]

A general reminder that you are to talk TO the OP, not ABOUT her. Discussion will be civil and on topic. Continued violations will result in the thread being temporaily locked and infractions given for EACH post in violation, regardless of how many you have this this thread.

 

Thanks

[Mount]

Bringontherain, I kindly aree with your opinion as well. From my perspective, crying out loud for attention apparently is the root cause for everything here (blogging/expressing that much) on the surface.

 

AR, I am concerned by the fact that you were asking about an RO after one...ONE...email from this woman. To me that suggests that, on some level, you were seeking to be a part of the drama. Could it be that you were looking for attention from this man?

 

It truly bothers me when people seek out orders of protection based on emails alone. I understand that she made threats to the police, fine, then it may be warranted, but before that is what bothers me. People misuse those things and then the courts are too clogged up to take care of the people who really need them.

 

I also find your assertion that he can speak with you about the other women in his life, but he won't share details about you very naive.

 

I think it would behoove you to speak, in depth, with another professional because you are not seeing some very glaringly obvious issues. Just like the homebuilder might live in a shack, or the mechanic drives a rusty piece of junk, therapist may ignore their own mental health.

 

Just food for thought, because it's more difficult to see our own issues than it is to see someone else's.

[AnotherRound]

AR, I am concerned by the fact that you were asking about an RO after one...ONE...email from this woman. To me that suggests that, on some level, you were seeking to be a part of the drama. Could it be that you were looking for attention from this man?

 

It was after one (then two) emails AND the hx of her escalation that I was aware of. She has been stalking exMM and his stbxw (and their child!) for 8 months now, with NO provocation from anyone except herself in her own head. I get attention from him regardless of her actions - she is a non-factor in that. He has given me attention, positive attention as I'm not a negative attention seeker, throughout their entire "relationship" and for the past 8 years - the first seven, she wasn't even thought of. So, no, it's not about me wanting to get attention from him - I've always had his attention, and that appears that it won't change with or without her involvement.

 

It truly bothers me when people seek out orders of protection based on emails alone. I understand that she made threats to the police, fine, then it may be warranted, but before that is what bothers me. People misuse those things and then the courts are too clogged up to take care of the people who really need them.

 

I agree, and honestly didn't think I could get one with just the two emails. But, apparently, I could have - according to my attorney friend. I have very little experience with ROs, and in the past have had stalkers, but it was resolved w/o ROs - so, I had no idea what it took to warrant one. I agree that people clog up our system sometimes, but in this case, it appears it is a valid concern - especially considering her behavior towards the POs that approached her after her breaking the RO with exMM by messaging him. I'm glad that I have one in place now - she obviously doesn't need any outside provocation (other than ignoring and silence?) to be "pushed" to act erratically!

 

I also find your assertion that he can speak with you about the other women in his life, but he won't share details about you very naive.

 

Sometimes, you just click with someone. I also don't have jealousy issues, and am very self confident. I understand that a lot of people can't or don't want real honesty about this type of thing, whereas I do. It doesn't hurt my feelings or make me feel insecure, I know what I have to offer - and realize that others have different things to offer than me. I honestly don't see it as the people being better or worse - just better or worse fits for that particular person. I don't take that personally at all. I'm pretty confident that he doesn't share much about me - but again, I am not a secretive person, and have nothing about myself that I would be ashamed to share, or consider so personal that I would be embarrassed or angry that someone else knew it. I know this isn't the "norm", but it is just who I am.

 

I think it would behoove you to speak, in depth, with another professional because you are not seeing some very glaringly obvious issues. Just like the homebuilder might live in a shack, or the mechanic drives a rusty piece of junk, therapist may ignore their own mental health.

 

I often speak to other professionals, on a daily basis actually. Thing is, expressing your opinions and beliefs and perspectives to someone is one thing. It does not obligate that person to make their choices based on what YOU (in general) would do - they have to make their own choices from their own standpoints - any other way is going to fail miserably bc their heart won't be in it. Professionals don't tell others what to do - they simply provide them with the tools and coping skills to do the best that they can from their own heart. I don't ignore my own mental health, quite the opposite. And, since most of my inner circle is made up of other professionals, I have a smorgasboard of expertise to consult with - about professional issues AND about personal issues. We have a great support circle set up, and I get a lot of feedback from other professionals. I'm perfectly aware of my own issues, and perfectly content with my own mental health and my own choices.

 

Just food for thought, because it's more difficult to see our own issues than it is to see someone else's.

 

Oh, I agree with this! And, had I not went through the programs that I've been through, I wouldn't have anywhere near the understanding of my own "stuff" that I have now. I know myself inside and out, as is a prerequisite for what I do so that my own stuff doesn't muddy up the waters for my clients. I am secure in the assessments done of me, and my awareness of my own issues, and my ability to see myself much more objectively than most people probably can with themselves simply bc of the rigorous self exposure that was required of me in my training. I have taken every personality test available, IQ and EQ tests, and been grilled left, right, and center about my past, my family of origin, my traumas, and my behaviors... lol. It was uncomfortable at first, but by the end, I was hyper aware of how my brain and emotions work, why they do, and how to use my strengths and weaknesses to better myself as a person, and as a clinician. It was the most revealing process I've ever been through, and have said numerous times, I wish everyone was required to do the self exploration that mental health professionals are required to do!

 

There were many people who never made it through that process - their weaknesses proved too great, or too fragile to be professional providers. That was the purpose - to weed out those who probably wouldn't "hold up" to the rigors of the profession. I was passed with flying colors, awards, and academic honors - bc I exhibited not only a great self awareness, but an ability to put my stuff aside and provide fantastic assistance to others. Again, I'm confident in my self awareness and my abilities, and honestly, those who are concerned about it are wasting energy on a non- issue - worrying about something that has been proven to be patently okay.

[AnotherRound]

You are correct in that I don't really believe in the whole FWB thing either. To me the term - friends with benefits - is a contradiction itself, because to my way of thinking true friends would never use each other that way. It would cheapen the friendship. For me when it comes to sex, I want the whole enchilada. I want to experience the whole physical, emotional and mental connection. Friends with benefits is just enhanced masturbation.

 

As for the OOW, if she had a crush on the MM since her teen years and he knew this then all the more reason he should have steered clear of her. Instead he knew her weakness and her hearts desire and took advantage of that. You know it's perfectly possible to go through life without using people or taking advantage of their weak spots. You make it sound like if someone presents themselves as willing to be used then one has no choice but to take them up on that offer. It's also possible to get through a year or more without having sex with someone you don't really want to be with. Again you make it sound like this poor poor man just had no choice but to do the OOW since he couldn't be with you. Why couldn't he wait until he met someone he did respect and want to be with? How can you respect that? Do you just sleep with whomever happens to be available? If not then why do you excuse this behaviour in the MM?

 

This is interesting. The SG that I have talked about here, the one who I see occasionally, is probably a FWB for me. I adore him. He's a great guy, handsome, intelligent, hard working - young, lol. He adores me - we have a great time together. But, in the long run, he wants to marry, settle down, have children - and he wants a christian based household. I do not want a christian based household. That's our kicker. It is the ONE thing that keeps us from "dating" one another.

 

But, in the meantime, we have a lot of fun together. We talk about everything, and again - I have that honesty with him like I have with exMM. I would LOVE to date him seriously, see where it goes - but he already knows that me not being a christian is a dealbreaker for him. So, I guess we could both deny our attraction to one another, or avoid each other - but as he and I like to say, we are all adults here! lol

 

To me, it's silly to avoid it. It's obviously there - we love each other on a lot of levels. He would do anything for me, and vice versa. The fact that we are sexually attracted to one another and enjoy that together does not detract from my feelings for him at all, or my respect for him. We are both grown, and when we are both single, we have a good time together. Sometimes we have sex, sometimes we just hang out. Neither of us is lying to the other, or tricking the other - or pushing the other to be in any type of relationship the other isn't willing to be in. We have talked at length about the one thing that keeps us from becoming a bona fide "couple". Although, many people are aware that we see each other often, and wonder aloud why we aren't "together" - which we explain.

 

Imo, if two consenting adults enjoy each other's company, and all are above board about what they want and expect and accept - no harm, no foul. He has had gfs and I have had bfs and we have hung out on double dates. I see nothing wrong about it - as I'm not trying to trap him - I just like his company, in more ways than one, and am quite content to "enjoy" him without having to have him married off and shackled (not that marriage is shackles, but I would never force someone to be with me against their wishes, or hold them to something that they have been honest about not wanting).

 

As for the bolded, no, I personally don't sleep with whomever is available - although, if I was sleeping with unavailable people against their will - it would be rape, I think? I mean, don't we all sleep with who is available as it is kind of a requirement that the other party be willing? Have I slept with someone that I had no feelings for? Yep - back in the day, especially during undergraduate college. I've had ONSs bc that was all I was interested in at the time, or with that specific person. If you've never had the experience of just being sexually attracted to someone, then I'm sad for that - bc it can be an amazing thing to simply have sex, nothing more, in moderation of course.

 

As far as exMM, I don't dictate his sex life. He is a grown man and is free to do as he pleases. If I had a problem with him being sexual, he wouldn't be the guy for me, or vice versa. We are both very sexual people, so we are going to have sex - lol. If I'm not having sex with him, it doesn't mean that I will never have sex again - and I don't expect him to stop having sex if we aren't having sex. Sex is a basic need in life - it doesn't have to be "making love" every time. Sometimes, it can just be "sex". Haven't you ever had "just sex" with someone? I can't imagine that I would deny myself food and starve to death simply bc the food I was craving wasn't there at that very moment. I still eat - even if it isn't exactly what I wish I was eating.

 

I don't justify anything anyone does. I just understand it. I don't place my own rules on what anyone else does in this life - I live and let live. I accept people for who they are, and unless they are purposely harming people, I'm pretty understanding of their weaknesses and humanity. I know that not everyone sees that the same way - it is what makes the world go round, all of the diversity.

 

And, as for someone else's comment about other professionals here, I'm aware. I'm not sure why that's relevant, but I do know that there are other people here who are mental health professionals. Just like I would hesitate to make any type of determinations here about someone else's mental health, I suspect that they would also. If they feel that they have a "good enough" picture of me from my posts, I would honestly doubt their skills a bit, as they would surely know that getting the whole picture would reveal important details and such. Fact is, everything I have posted is true - whether others believe it or not. Sometimes, things are EXACTLY as posters present them, lol.

[Saba]

... My ex boyfriend said that he would let me know when she is released from the hospital, but she is going straight to the local jail from there he said. He wants me to be prepared for anything as he is concerned as to what she will do once released. He is going to "assess" her when he gets her to the jail - and let me know.

 

Hospital to jail.... what a great system!

[AnotherRound]

She can't cope because she is childish and spoiled! Really? That is what you think?

 

Feeling sad for her would indicate you have some compassion which you clearly do not. She has serious problems at the moment (if what you say is accurate). You have done what you need to do so why are you so snide and nasty about her?

 

I'm not being nasty - I'm just not rushing in to save her from herself. I have no idea if she is mentally ill, or if she is just "childish and spoiled" and doesn't like it when she doesn't get her way. I don't know her, I've said that a million times - I only have information about her behaviors - and can't tell if she is mentally ill or not. She seems to be - but some people aren't mentally ill, they are just childish and can't take being "rejected" or hearing "no".

 

I didn't "do" anything - in fact, I did nothing. Other than take out the RO bc she was trying to intrude into my life and I don't want her in my life.

 

Yes, she has serious problems at the moment - serious legal problems. All her own doing - nobody else's. If she is mentally ill, I feel sad for her. If she's not? Well then... no, I don't feel sorry for her. Either way, her actions are unacceptable - the extent to which they are her fault is yet to be determined I guess. But again, either way, I don't have to deal with her, don't want to deal with her, and have no obligation to deal with her. I am NOT her counselor - I am a person that she is/was harassing.

[AnotherRound]

Hospital to jail.... what a great system!

 

Yeah, bc she appeared to be mentally unstable. They will treat that, and then she will have to face the legal consequences of breaking the boundaries of an RO against her. That is life. It is full of consequences. I'm sure that if she is found to be unfit mentally for jail, the hospital will keep her. If they don't, then she is fit to face her legal repurcussions. She committed a crime - she knew ahead of time she was committing a crime - she CHOSE to commit the crime.

 

I choose not to feel sorry for people who willingly commit crimes against me. I understand she may be mentally ill - time will tell. But I say it again, it is not my job as a fellow human to save her from herself. If she showed up and was suicidal or homicidal, I would take appropriate action - legally. My good samaritan obligation ends there. Especially considering how nasty she was to me in the emails she sent. To expect someone she attacks and insults to "help" her, or soothe her - well, sorry. She seems unstable, she seems erratic, and I'm not putting my life in danger for her benefit.