Update: Part 3

October 12, 2012

Update: The exgf has been committed, against her will, to a psychiatric hospital - I had nothing to do with it.

Ya sure about that? You sure with your professional skills and wrong doing of her that you didn't push her off the deep end?

October 12, 2012

Apparently to AnotherRound, the MM is not an exMM, AR is still involved with him even AR claims she is not. And the MM is still choosing staying with his wife.

That is the fact, plain and simple. Tons and tons of blogging or typing or wording are for what?

October 12, 2012

Ya sure about that? You sure with your professional skills and wrong doing of her that you didn't push her off the deep end?

Now that was just nasty......

October 12, 2012

It does not seem to be normal for me if AR is really not focusing on her MM when she is typing SO MUCH here, even she claims that she is not.

October 13, 2012

Ya sure about that? You sure with your professional skills and wrong doing of her that you didn't push her off the deep end?

Um - what wrongdoing? Ignoring her? I'm not obligated to interact with anyone in this world that I wish not to. If my inaction "pushed her off the deep end", that's not my fault - nor does it mandate that I am responsible for keeping her from going off the deep end. I had zero communication with her - have never interacted with her at all. If that is wrongdoing, then you and I are responsible for a lot of terrible things that happen every day that we had absolutely no input or interaction on.

October 13, 2012

AR, what's the status on his divorce? Is it final yet?

October 13, 2012

Um - what wrongdoing? Ignoring her? I'm not obligated to interact with anyone in this world that I wish not to. If my inaction "pushed her off the deep end", that's not my fault - nor does it mandate that I am responsible for keeping her from going off the deep end. I had zero communication with her - have never interacted with her at all. If that is wrongdoing, then you and I are responsible for a lot of terrible things that happen every day that we had absolutely no input or interaction on.

AR,

I know you've mentioned you can type super fast and just have a lot of thoughts to put out there, which is why your posts are really long, pretty much defending the same points in different framing. If you are not trying to convince us the reader, what are you trying to do?

It's pretty clear you only agree with those that resonate the same exact mindset, viewpoints.

A true clinician in any capacity knows that's it's futile to use grandiose verbosity. It's well known that anyone if talking to a general public (these forums) should use the most simplistic terms as not everyone has an advanced education, so I'm not sure why the incessant need to talk "above".

Honestly if you were truly good with things, you wouldn't need to defend them. It's why "some" of us are seeing the insecurity issues. If you're truly here to understand a different viewpoint, then you would need to be open to understanding that. If you're just here to defend a blog...well that's a different story.

You're MM does have issues that it seems you want to defend. One of the biggest ones is his horrible boundaries of talking to you about other women. You should as a person in the healthcare profession, realize that someone who does that will do it to ANYONE. The fact that he tells you how vanilla the sex is with his wife is not only creepy, it's disrespectful not just to his wife but to YOU.

A woman with self esteem intact would run and not look back at a man that is capable of that. Because it shows that he has poor boundaries. You should not be his counselor. Defend it all you like but all he is doing is trying to set up a scenario where you want to "compete" to feel that you can be better.

If things don't work out with you two and he goes on to his next one. Realize he has shown through poor boundaries that he will talk down YOU to her too. It's how he will get that woman to sympathize with him and bond to him and think "I can give him what he needs, I can rock his world". I really think you should be open to thinking about what he would be like in a real time relationship, for YOU. Not for us. If you continue to write your defending diatribes, well I'd just ask you why you feel the need to do that?

As I said initially, I wasn't here to ask questions - I was here to vent and process. I like to discuss things, and think things through - and I think and type fast. I also talk a lot, and type a lot.

Yes, if things don't work out with he and I, I expect him to go on to the next one. I have several ex boyfriends who are now married to other people, or in other relationships - their relationship and intimate lives didn't end when we broke up. ?

I know that he didn't tell the other OW the things he told me - nor anything about me. She definitely would have tried to use any personal information against me - and had nothing to offer about me or about me and him together. So, I'm secure in that - not to mention, he also says that he didn't share with her. It just so happens he shares more with me than anyone else - my guess is that is probably bc I don't use my own agendas or use it against him when he is honest with me. I prefer the honesty - even if it isn't what I want to hear - and I don't fly into a rage when he is honest with me and it's not what I want to hear. I simply accept it - as it is his feelings and/or thoughts. To me, that's what adults do. If he feels or thinks in a way that is a dealbreaker for me, I walk away. Simple.

I am not insecure, but if others want to think that I am, that's fine. If I was insecure, that would probably bother me, lol. Like I said, I like venting here, I like interacting with several of the other posters here - and they have been able to take some things from my posts, so, that keeps me posting. Also, some are interested in my story - some that don't post, but lurk, and I share it for them mostly bc they are intimidated and hesitant to post.

And, again, I have been absolutely cleared as mentally and emotionally stable and healthy. If some disagree - that's okay, but the professionals probably know what they are talking about and are specifically trained to find instability in those they assess. So, I'm going with their assessment of me and my skills.

The topic of this thread is dealing with an exgf that is acting out in illegal ways - not my competence as a professional. Nobody's opinion here really matters regarding that, bc I'm licensed by the people that make those decisions - and because I passed all of the necessary requirements. I defend it bc it's annoying to have people continue to try to hold me to a different standard in reacting bc of my profession - but in the next breath try to claim that I am not a professional.

October 13, 2012

Apparently to AnotherRound, the MM is not an exMM, AR is still involved with him even AR claims she is not. And the MM is still choosing staying with his wife.

That is the fact, plain and simple. Tons and tons of blogging or typing or wording are for what?

Expression. Venting. Processing. Sharing with others who may find themselves in a similar situation. Learning from others who may have been or are in a similar situation.

I have always been emotionally involved with exMM, I've stated that very clearly. ExMM is not choosing staying with his wife, he has been moved out for 8 months and the divorce is progressing. When his divorce is final, if he wants to date me, I will date him.

October 13, 2012

AR, what's the status on his divorce? Is it final yet?

No, not final yet. She has not completed the financial paper work, and he is asking her daily to settle regarding the buyout of the house (the biggest issue at this point that she can't/won't agree on). Even after the final settlement is signed, our state takes anywhere from 30 to 90 days to finalize a divorce. So, he's got at least a few more months, even though he was hoping to have it done by the end of the year - it appears that she is going to hold it up for some reason. He hasn't quite figured that out yet, but he has talked to his attorney and expressed that he wants it done and finalized before the end of the year. His attorney has started processing paper work in an effort to push it through a little faster and force her to complete and submit her paper work. Everything else is all settled - oh, except that she now owes exMM quite a chunk of money since she took out over half of their savings prior to filing for divorce. So, his attorney is also in the process of getting that back for exMM since she knowingly stole money from him and tried to hide it. Luckily, he had receipts and ledgers and was able to prove it, so he will get his money back in the settlement.

October 13, 2012

You contradict yourself in many posts, maybe it's because you are so wordy but it's hard to follow you. Can't you see why people question you?

First, exMM is not a PO. One of my ex boyfriend's is a local PO. I actually dated him "during" exMM - as I often took a break from exMM to date SGs if I was interested. exMMs career has never been shared here for obvious reasons. But imagining him as PO made me giggle... lol

It could be the wordiness. I like to talk, I like to share, I like to type - I find it to be therapeutic. I know that I go on and on - I think out loud. I do it IRL too. I journal, or I just hash things out, out loud, thinking as I go, turning things over and over. I'm extremely analytical, and this is just part of it, and my personality.

I don't have a lot of knowledge about ROs. I haven't had to deal with them that much. I'm not a parole officer, or a legal officer of any kind. I work with people in crisis - there are MANY crises that have no need for an RO. In fact, I honestly don't think I've ever had a client that needed an RO or got one or asked for assistance in getting one. I don't work with criminals (my choice), but mostly children and families, and it just hasn't come up.

People can doubt me, I just don't understand why they have to jack my threads to do so. I have PM, they could contact me that way and accuse me of whatever. I just want to share - it's an open forum, and anyone can choose not to read. I don't see what the value is of trying to call me out - when I'm being honest, bc it just takes the thread OT anyway. And I get tired of explaining it, honestly. I'm not lying, and no matter what I say, there are some that just won't believe me anyways. So, instead of wasting everyone's time, why don't those who think I am just skip the threads and the posts? Why do they feel the need to try to force me to change my story? I can't change the truth, so, again, it's just wasted energy, imo.

I get messages from people who are getting value from my posts. As long as I do, I will continue to share. People who are obsessively focused on trying to prove a truth to be false are just jacking the threads and wasting time, imo.

October 13, 2012

I'm not obsessive nor trying to prove anything, I was pointing out what seems to be inconsistencies with you but I can see I wasted my time and yours. So I apologize. I won't take up your time with any more replies.

You hit the nail on the head. I'm very analytical, but I'm also a clinician so I'm an advocate for the patients/people I represent. Enough said.

I see the inconsistencies too. The OP doesn't wish to, enough said.

I have people who PM me on my helpfulness. Big deal People don't want to jack a thread on kudos.

I assure you I'm not triggered on anything said here. Good luck to you

October 13, 2012

I would like for you to clarify what I am giving him power over? Because I'm interested in dating him once he is divorced? If so - then okay, he can have that "power", bc I would like to date him once he is divorced. And, I date several different guys - the one guy was just an example of how things sometimes just don't work out. I'm not investing in them bc they aren't the guy for me - it has nothing to do with exMM. I know when I click with someone, and when I don't. If I don't, I cut my losses and move on - I don't sweat it at all - why would I?

And, how much energy am I focusing on exMM? A few posts a day? Journaling about him? Because, that is how I process - that is well spent energy, imo. I like to think things through before I make any decisions - and this is a decision I will need to make, so I'm thinking it through. That's not giving someone "power" - it's making well thought out decisions. I spend energy on him bc I love him - I would spend the same energy thinking about anyone that I love if there was a "situation" involving that person. I think we view "power" as different things.

It seems that you think I'm giving him my power by simply caring about him. If that is the case, okay - if that's how you define power. It is not how I define power, but that's okay if it is how you see it. I feel that as long as I'm making my own decisions, not being forced or manipulated, then I will make my own choices and handle the consequences of those choices. That's what an adult does, imo. I'm well informed, have thought it out, and have ascertained that he is worth any "risks" that I can foresee (which are honestly no more risks than I would encounter in ANY relationship as far as I can tell from what I know of him). I'm sorry if that upsets you, but honestly, you are much more worried about me than you need to be - I am fine I am not in danger, and exMM is not trying to hurt me, nor would he ever. If he decides not to date me, or breaks up with me - I will be fine. It happens, it's life - it's not the end of the world, and I won't die from it - I will just carry on as I always have.

Honestly, I appreciate the concern - but I am wondering if you aren't possibly being triggered by something here as your reaction to this thread seems a bit beyond what it would maybe call for? I hope that's not the case, but it does seem probable since it appears that you are assuming a lot of things that you can't possibly know about the situation (that's what it seems like, as much of what you have said in this thread has been incorrect - like that exMM is seeking ego feeding?).

Anyway, again, thank you for your concern - and I think I see where you are coming from, but it does appear that you are incorrect on many of the details of the situation. It's all fine - no drama at all now that the OW is in the hospital and then will be in jail and now has 4 ROs against her, mine included. She will have legal consequences if she attempts to contact exMM, stbxw, their child, or myself.

Handing him your power because YOU'VE stated he really wishes to actually stay MARRIED to his wife! Yet you look forward to dating him!

Why would you want to be any man's second choice? You will be because you said you'll date him down the road.

You seem to be obsessing over him. What he's got going on in his life - you know every little detail of THEIR divorce! That's private! That's personal! Yet he shares hat private info with you and who knows how many others?

So - you can expect that he won't keep anything he knows about you private as well. There's no honor in sharing private stuff with other people. That's probably why the OOW went ballistic - she knew too much???

Either way - I'd call it settling if you do date him in the future - you can't seem to see this from a neutral perspective because you're too emotionally connected to a big mouth who cheats.

You may call it a win - but I think that decision for ANY gal would just suck = it's settling at its finest level.

He's a VERY consistent cheater = he will also cheat on you - and don't think he won't - after all he needs to feel validated and obviously just one gal isn't nearly enough for him.

Men like him need serious help. The fact that you are attracted to him makes me wonder about your sensibility.

I was trying to talk some sense to you - THAT was why I was posted.

But you are INTENT on defending him and your "special bond" when really it boils down to the fact that he doesn't know how to be alone - or without the sex - OR BOTH.

Either way = that makes him very emotionally stunted and very immature!

What is attractive about all that?

I would hope if I were you - that you'd be trying to show me what I couldn't see with my blinders on.

Apparently I'm talking to a brick wall because you don't want to hear about his truth based on the evidence you've presented.

October 13, 2012

Maybe he is special because he has duped at least these three women... I don't call that a special man - I call his type very broken.

And you being attracted to this broken guy has me questioning your judgement.

Think about it - you'd give that advice to a patient or your daughter - but why are YOU willing to settle for a man with a broken moral compass?

October 13, 2012

Handing him your power because YOU'VE stated he really wishes to actually stay MARRIED to his wife! Yet you look forward to dating him!

Why would you want to be any man's second choice? You will be because you said you'll date him down the road.

You seem to be obsessing over him. What he's got going on in his life - you know every little detail of THEIR divorce! That's private! That's personal! Yet he shares hat private info with you and who knows how many others?

So - you can expect that he won't keep anything he knows about you private as well. There's no honor in sharing private stuff with other people. That's probably why the OOW went ballistic - she knew too much???

Either way - I'd call it settling if you do date him in the future - you can't seem to see this from a neutral perspective because you're too emotionally connected to a big mouth who cheats.

You may call it a win - but I think that decision for ANY gal would just suck = it's settling at its finest level.

He's a VERY consistent cheater = he will also cheat on you - and don't think he won't - after all he needs to feel validated and obviously just one gal isn't nearly enough for him.

Men like him need serious help. The fact that you are attracted to him makes me wonder about your sensibility.

I was trying to talk some sense to you - THAT was why I was posted.

But you are INTENT on defending him and your "special bond" when really it boils down to the fact that he doesn't know how to be alone - or without the sex - OR BOTH.

Either way = that makes him very emotionally stunted and very immature!

What is attractive about all that?

I would hope if I were you - that you'd be trying to show me what I couldn't see with my blinders on.

Apparently I'm talking to a brick wall because you don't want to hear about his truth based on the evidence you've presented.

Okay, again, I thank you for the concern. You still have some details wrong though... ???? He is not trying to stay married now, he has been alone (living alone and without a partner) for the past 8 months, he has given up on reconciling of his own accord bc he has come to the conclusion that it would never work and they married the wrong person. He is currently living alone and without sex (he's not getting it from me! lol), so, um... ????

He isn't seeking validation. Expressing yourself emotionally isn't about seeking validation - sometimes, it's just venting, expressing, bouncing things off someone else. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have always known the details of his life - he was my boyfriend, my lover, my SO for 7 years. We talked about everything - and he had a wife, so that did affect his life - so we talked about it. Now, he is in the process of divorcing - that affects his life, so we talk about it. Plus, I've been through one before - he hasn't - he asks me for insight, information - we are both talkers, so yeah, I do know a lot of details. I know a lot of details about the other OW too - bc he talked to me about it. Do I believe he talks to everyone the way he does me? Nope, not even a bit. Because we DO have a special connection. I know things about him that nobody else in the world knows - not even his wife of 20+ years - bc he felt comfortable enough to tell me those things, bc I'm not judgmental and I don't use those things against him. To me, that is the ONLY type of relationship I want to be part of - with that kind of honesty.

I'm defending him bc you are attempting (it seems?) to paint him as this one dimensional stereotypical type of person - and you're wrong. He's a real person, with a lot of layers, like any other person in the world. Of course he has his own issues - we all do, but he isn't condemnable or a write off bc he's not perfect. Also, what you think are his issues - aren't even close. He does have them, and I'm well aware of them, but I know him very well and very intimately, and you don't. So, I'm guessing that I'm in a much better position here to know what "type" of person he is. Yes, you could be right, and I could be totally wrong - but I trust myself on this one. I've been extremely intimate with him for 7 years - and if he faked who he is for all that time, then he is a superb actor, manipulator, or sociopath. And I kind of know what to look for regarding those things, and haven't seen an ounce of it. So, maybe trust me that I know my boyfriend of 7 years at a level that you will never know him at?

And, if he cheats on me - okay. Anyone can cheat on me - my exH did, and I never thought he would. So, you can't predict these things. If exMM and I date, and he cheats on me - I will handle it. We will break up, we will move on into other relationships - and the world will keep on turning round and round just as it always has. It won't be the first affair (obviously) and it wouldn't be the last one - and I have no idea why you seem so fearful (or sure?) that may happen? It's not the end of the world for anyone involved - unless they have zero coping abilities and zero self esteem and zero resilience. ?????

So, thanks for the concern - I hear you. Your thoughts and feelings are valid, and I appreciate you sharing them with me. Personally, your posts are too emotional (just my opinion), and too far off the mark on all things discussed to be considered much (no offense, as I know it took you some time to type them, and I do appreciate that!). I just didn't find much that I agreed with, or much that seemed relevant to the situation - so, we can agree to disagree. If I get hurt, it won't affect you or your life in the least, so I do appreciate you taking the time to try to show me what you think is going on in an effort to save me some heartache. If you turn out to be right, you can say I told you so - but I honestly just think you are misreading him completely.

No big deal... thanks again for taking the time and energy to post and to see the situation through your own lenses and to share your perspective and thoughts and opinions with me.

October 13, 2012

AR does anything in your professional background/training include bully or gang mentality? Because that's what is happening to you in this thread. I'm sorry you're going through it. I'm sorry when anybody goes through it. Glad you are standing up anyway.

I get messages from people who are getting value from my posts. As long as I do, I will continue to share. People who are obsessively focused on trying to prove a truth to be false are just jacking the threads and wasting time, imo.

October 13, 2012

You've stated that he WANTED to stay married to his wife but SHE made that decision for him - big difference... Especially when he was trying to get back together with her but she wouldn't allow it.

You said that in your previous threads - but now the story's changing.

You're being delusional now - while defending his poor history.

October 13, 2012

AR does anything in your professional background/training include bully or gang mentality? Because that's what is happening to you in this thread. I'm sorry you're going through it. I'm sorry when anybody goes through it. Glad you are standing up anyway.

It's a discussion. Have you never seen ideas and experience discussed?

No one is bullying her... Just bringing other views and laying them out based on what she's presented.

October 13, 2012

AR does anything in your professional background/training include bully or gang mentality? Because that's what is happening to you in this thread. I'm sorry you're going through it. I'm sorry when anybody goes through it. Glad you are standing up anyway.

Yes, a lot of information and training regarding those topics, as they are quite common. It's that human nature to be a part of a group that some people just can't resist.

It happens a lot to me here - Personally, I think it's an attempt to get me to stop posting - I could be wrong. But, I see no reason for me to be excluded from the OW/OM board as my threads are obviously relevant to others in those situations.

I always stand up - I'm not easily intimidated at all, never have been. I can handle being called names and such, I just wish people would PM it instead of jacking my threads to do it - so that others can take the value they find in my threads (and maybe stop being too intimidated to post!). I think the mods do a great job, and am glad that they are here to enforce the rules of the forums - otherwise, it seems it would be the same 4 or 5 people posting and always agreeing with one another - and the world looking like their view is the ONLY "right" view - and that would defeat the entire point of an open forum, imo.

I was simply sharing my story (another thread was closed by moderators, although they asked me if I wanted to open it again, but I chose to just begin a new thread instead as the other one was WAY OT already, and I didn't want to start out there), as there are people requesting it. I can PM it, copy and paste, but I want it to be available to everyone - those who find no value in it can ignore it, I'm not sure why they don't????

October 13, 2012

You've stated that he WANTED to stay married to his wife but SHE made that decision for him - big difference... Especially when he was trying to get back together with her but she wouldn't allow it.

You said that in your previous threads - but now the story's changing.

You're being delusional now - while defending his poor history.

AR you have also stated that the whole time he was with the OOW he was still trying to get back together with you, all the while still married to his wife. Why is that not disgusting to you? If he was boinking the OOW while he really wanted to be with you then he was just using her wasn't he? Are you normally attracted to men who use people?

October 13, 2012

You've stated that he WANTED to stay married to his wife but SHE made that decision for him - big difference... Especially when he was trying to get back together with her but she wouldn't allow it.

You said that in your previous threads - but now the story's changing.

You're being delusional now - while defending his poor history.

Sorry, but you got another fact wrong. Go back and read the thread where I talked about how he had decided that he didn't want to reconcile any longer - that should get you up to date. It's really hard to discuss any of this with you when you get the details incorrect - I know that you are honestly trying to help, and I value your input - but it's negated when you aren't working with the right information.

October 13, 2012

Here we again...it reminds me all of us tried to reply/convince another poster whom was obsessed with her MM, who went on NC with her, but that woman insisted and tried to convince us that her MM "loved" her, and the NC was from the MM's wife force.

I forgot that poster's username. She worked in University, something like that.

October 13, 2012

AR you have also stated that the whole time he was with the OOW he was still trying to get back together with you, all the while still married to his wife. Why is that not disgusting to you? If he was boinking the OOW while he really wanted to be with you then he was just using her wasn't he? Are you normally attracted to men who use people?

I'm not disgusted by that, no. I feel badly for her that she was used, but she was a willing participant, with all the facts (she knows him and his stbxw, and grew up with them, knew they were married), and she was obviously benefiting from the relationship too, or she would have left. She was getting to have sex, had a companion, etc. If she wanted more - she could have asked for more, demanded more (which she did), or left the relationship if it wasn't enough. She's a free agent - with free will and her own ability to be where she chooses to be, as we all are.

I do think he was using her on some level - but again, she knew what the relationship was. That's why she flipped out about 6 months in - bc he wasn't wanting to invest any more in it - and she was. That began her descent into where she is now. If, at that time, she had walked away - bc her needs weren't being met - well, that seems to be the sensible thing to do. However, she chose to stay - for whatever reason. Obviously, there was some payoff in her staying for her - her choice.

I know that many think he lied to her. I don't think he did. She knew WAY more about him going in than I did bc she grew up with him, knew his wife, etc. And she willingly chose to be with him - as an AP (not her first rodeo either, as was later found out, she likes MM a LOT).

Am I happy that he used her when he couldn't have me? No. Is it my fault? No. Does it make me hate him? No. He did the best he could with what he had at the time - he's human. He was up front with her, and she thought he would change his mind and fall head over heels in love with her. When he didn't, she got mad - that's odd to me. Why would she expect that? And, if she did expect that, despite all of his telling her differently (her email to me verified that, btw) and that it would never happen - why was she angry when he didn't? She was angry, and then attempted to FORCE someone to love her. That's so strange to me I can't even grasp it. Why would anyone want to try to blackmail and force someone to be with them? (THAT is insecure and low self esteem to the clinical and extreme level!)

So, no, I don't find it disgusting. He was honest with her, she willingly participated, then got angry bc it didn't work out IRL the way she had it planned in her head. She set herself up for that heartache - nobody else did that for her. She had some pretty unrealistic expectations of the relationship considering she was being told flat out by him that it wasn't going to happen - she seems to do that often, and apparently becomes very angry when it doesn't go her way.

He's human, muddling his way through. He has hurt some people along the way, as we all have. He has realized it, apologized for it, and is trying to do the right thing now - trying to see the situation clearly and make good decisions. I wouldn't/couldn't ask anything more of him - unless I was in a position to toss stones bc I am perfect - and I am not, so I won't toss stones. I know his heart, I know he's not a malicious person who tries to hurt people. I'm confident in that, not an ounce of doubt about that. That's more than good enough for me.

October 13, 2012

I'm not disgusted by that, no. I feel badly for her that she was used, but she was a willing participant, with all the facts (she knows him and his stbxw, and grew up with them, knew they were married), and she was obviously benefiting from the relationship too, or she would have left. She was getting to have sex, had a companion, etc. If she wanted more - she could have asked for more, demanded more (which she did), or left the relationship if it wasn't enough. She's a free agent - with free will and her own ability to be where she chooses to be, as we all are.

I do think he was using her on some level - but again, she knew what the relationship was. That's why she flipped out about 6 months in - bc he wasn't wanting to invest any more in it - and she was. That began her descent into where she is now. If, at that time, she had walked away - bc her needs weren't being met - well, that seems to be the sensible thing to do. However, she chose to stay - for whatever reason. Obviously, there was some payoff in her staying for her - her choice.

I know that many think he lied to her. I don't think he did. She knew WAY more about him going in than I did bc she grew up with him, knew his wife, etc. And she willingly chose to be with him - as an AP (not her first rodeo either, as was later found out, she likes MM a LOT).

Am I happy that he used her when he couldn't have me? No. Is it my fault? No. Does it make me hate him? No. He did the best he could with what he had at the time - he's human. He was up front with her, and she thought he would change his mind and fall head over heels in love with her. When he didn't, she got mad - that's odd to me. Why would she expect that? And, if she did expect that, despite all of his telling her differently (her email to me verified that, btw) and that it would never happen - why was she angry when he didn't? She was angry, and then attempted to FORCE someone to love her. That's so strange to me I can't even grasp it. Why would anyone want to try to blackmail and force someone to be with them? (THAT is insecure and low self esteem to the clinical and extreme level!)

So, no, I don't find it disgusting. He was honest with her, she willingly participated, then got angry bc it didn't work out IRL the way she had it planned in her head. She set herself up for that heartache - nobody else did that for her. She had some pretty unrealistic expectations of the relationship considering she was being told flat out by him that it wasn't going to happen - she seems to do that often, and apparently becomes very angry when it doesn't go her way.

He's human, muddling his way through. He has hurt some people along the way, as we all have. He has realized it, apologized for it, and is trying to do the right thing now - trying to see the situation clearly and make good decisions. I wouldn't/couldn't ask anything more of him - unless I was in a position to toss stones bc I am perfect - and I am not, so I won't toss stones. I know his heart, I know he's not a malicious person who tries to hurt people. I'm confident in that, not an ounce of doubt about that. That's more than good enough for me.

You completely missed the point. I wasn't talking about the OOW and her feelings and such. I was talking about you and the MM. It's not nice to use people, not even when those being used are willing participants, and if a man were declaring his love and desire for me all the while doing the deed with another woman and being married I would definitely question his sincerity. Apparently your standards are different.

October 13, 2012

You completely missed the point. I wasn't talking about the OOW and her feelings and such. I was talking about you and the MM. It's not nice to use people, not even when those being used are willing participants, and if a man were declaring his love and desire for me all the while doing the deed with another woman and being married I would definitely question his sincerity. Apparently your standards are different.

Well, we definitely view this differently, you and I. I agree, it's not nice to use people. However, some people agree to be used - they like it, or don't mind it or whatever. Or, they are getting something too - which she obviously was. She had a crush on him since they were teenagers and had always wanted to "be with" him... so, she got her wish, and was. And she enjoyed it - and then, got upset bc it didn't turn out to be more than what he told her he was willing to give.

According to you, nobody should ever be FWBs either then - bc they are just "using" each other. However, imo, consenting adults can do what they wish, as long as they are not lying to someone, and in this situation, there was no lying. Everyone involved knew the situation and agreed to participate.

I don't question his sincerity at all. He's human, he needs/wants companionship and human touch, like we all do. When he couldn't have me, which is what he really wanted, he made do with her. It happens. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with, ya know? People do it all the time. Is it nice? Probably not - but it's life. As long as you are honest with others about what you want, what you are willing to give - I don't see the harm in it. Unless one person changes their mind (falls in love?) and then decides that it's not enough and DEMANDS the same from the other person - who never agreed to it in the first place!

I get what you are saying. And, if he had lied to her, tricked her, manipulated her, etc. Yes, I would be disgusted. But he didn't. He didn't do any of these things to his stbxw either. So, no, it wasn't his best moment that he was using her as a filler - but it is what it is. She knew it, accepted it, then changed her mind - that's on her. He tried to end it and she went ballistic and had tantrums everywhere - bc she STILL wanted to be in the relationship.

I'm attracted to a LOT of things about him. As was she, apparently (for like 30 years or something!) He's a live person with a lot of qualities, good and bad. And, if I ever felt used by him, I wouldn't accept it like she did, that's what I would choose, how I would handle it. Maybe she's the one that settled and then felt bad about it later when he decided that he didn't even want that little bit from her any longer?

October 13, 2012

Okay, again, I thank you for the concern. You still have some details wrong though... ???? He is not trying to stay married now, he has been alone (living alone and without a partner) for the past 8 months, he has given up on reconciling of his own accord bc he has come to the conclusion that it would never work and they married the wrong person. He is currently living alone and without sex (he's not getting it from me! lol), so, um... ????

He isn't seeking validation. Expressing yourself emotionally isn't about seeking validation - sometimes, it's just venting, expressing, bouncing things off someone else. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have always known the details of his life - he was my boyfriend, my lover, my SO for 7 years. We talked about everything - and he had a wife, so that did affect his life - so we talked about it. Now, he is in the process of divorcing - that affects his life, so we talk about it. Plus, I've been through one before - he hasn't - he asks me for insight, information - we are both talkers, so yeah, I do know a lot of details. I know a lot of details about the other OW too - bc he talked to me about it. Do I believe he talks to everyone the way he does me? Nope, not even a bit. Because we DO have a special connection. I know things about him that nobody else in the world knows - not even his wife of 20+ years - bc he felt comfortable enough to tell me those things, bc I'm not judgmental and I don't use those things against him. To me, that is the ONLY type of relationship I want to be part of - with that kind of honesty.

I'm defending him bc you are attempting (it seems?) to paint him as this one dimensional stereotypical type of person - and you're wrong. He's a real person, with a lot of layers, like any other person in the world. Of course he has his own issues - we all do, but he isn't condemnable or a write off bc he's not perfect. Also, what you think are his issues - aren't even close. He does have them, and I'm well aware of them, but I know him very well and very intimately, and you don't. So, I'm guessing that I'm in a much better position here to know what "type" of person he is. Yes, you could be right, and I could be totally wrong - but I trust myself on this one. I've been extremely intimate with him for 7 years - and if he faked who he is for all that time, then he is a superb actor, manipulator, or sociopath. And I kind of know what to look for regarding those things, and haven't seen an ounce of it. So, maybe trust me that I know my boyfriend of 7 years at a level that you will never know him at?

And, if he cheats on me - okay. Anyone can cheat on me - my exH did, and I never thought he would. So, you can't predict these things. If exMM and I date, and he cheats on me - I will handle it. We will break up, we will move on into other relationships - and the world will keep on turning round and round just as it always has. It won't be the first affair (obviously) and it wouldn't be the last one - and I have no idea why you seem so fearful (or sure?) that may happen? It's not the end of the world for anyone involved - unless they have zero coping abilities and zero self esteem and zero resilience. ?????

So, thanks for the concern - I hear you. Your thoughts and feelings are valid, and I appreciate you sharing them with me. Personally, your posts are too emotional (just my opinion), and too far off the mark on all things discussed to be considered much (no offense, as I know it took you some time to type them, and I do appreciate that!). I just didn't find much that I agreed with, or much that seemed relevant to the situation - so, we can agree to disagree. If I get hurt, it won't affect you or your life in the least, so I do appreciate you taking the time to try to show me what you think is going on in an effort to save me some heartache. If you turn out to be right, you can say I told you so - but I honestly just think you are misreading him completely.

No big deal... thanks again for taking the time and energy to post and to see the situation through your own lenses and to share your perspective and thoughts and opinions with me.

He says that he hasn't had any contact with her since right after the divorce was filed, and that was to tell her that he wanted to end their relationship and try to reconcile with his wife. I do believe him on this. He did have very brief phone contact each time she changed her number and called him, but he said he immediately hung the phone up when he realized who it was and blocked that number too (said he could do that ALL day long if he had to).

I think she was his exit affair, and I do feel badly for her. But honestly, if she hadn't acted the way she has, he may not have ended it with her. They hadn't been seeing each other for very long, but he was obviously willing to give her a chance, but I think he rethought that pretty quickly when she started displaying this instability. I don't know if they would have "made it" if she hadn't acted this way and they had kept seeing each other, as exMM has VERY little tolerance for drama of any kind. It's just not his thing and he finds it really unattractive and "junior high". And, he said that her "mean streak" is ugly in that she was purposely trying to hurt his stbxw and it was unnecessary as the stbxw was aware of the affair and didn't want to know about it. (I'm still not sure why the stbxw even listened to her on the phone - passivity again I guess?)

Anyway, I know I'm rambling (no sleep). I'm thinking now that if I'm going to have to deal with this one, I may not want to do anything with exMM, lol. I don't like drama either - I don't mind confrontation when it's necessary, but it doesn't sound like she does "confrontation" in a very adult manner? And I get over drama really quickly myself (another thing exMM and I agree on, lol), so I won't participate in it or encourage it.

So, off to take a nap... thanks for listening and responding!

You did say the W was the one to file the D - you did say your MM was at that point TRYING to reconcile with his W.

He may not be bow for a variety of reasons but at one time he was aiming to not get divorced.

You are contradicting when I point out your inconsistencies.

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