Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 For those of you who don't know, my fiance and I are marrying in Fiji next April, with close friends and family there. We are paying for the wedding ourselves. We have also put aside money to pay for his brother to go (he has a child and is not well off) and my mum (she is not well off financially either). We agreed to do that some time ago. However, my fiance is now feeling annoyed and frustrated that we are paying for my mum. Reason? She lives in a big house by the sea, which she chose to buy about a year ago. As a result, she has little cash flow. If she downsized into somewhere smaller, and invested some money, she'd be OK. She loves where she lives though. Meanwhile, his mum and dad (also divorced) are struggling to save money, or living in smaller homes etc. He feels it's unfair that my mum gets to live in a big fancy house, and that we then have to pay for her trip to Fiji. His brother has said he's trying to save up, and would prefer us not to pay for him. But we will, because we want to help him out, especially as he has a 2 year old. We have had big issues with my mum and money before. Mum is a generous person. Very giving, and has the old belief, that family helps family. I am very close to her and always have been, and am an only child. I therefore tend to look at things differently to my fiance in relation to this and have a lot more emotional involvement. But I can see his point. What is your take on this situation?
honey2005 Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 If you're mom can't afford to pay for herself to go, wouldn't you rather pay for it yourself than not have her there at all? I understand what you're saying though, and maybe you should talk to her about how you and your fiance feel. Congratulations on your wedding!!
Mr Spock Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Sounds like your fiancee is jealous of your mother's house. You're paying for one of his family members, so you can pay for one of yours. Since these are terms already agreed upon, changing them would be uncomfortable for everyone and may cause more resentment. Tell your fiancee to grow up a little, it's your MOTHER....should she sell her house and move somewhere she hates then?
Author Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 Thanks. He is not so much jealous of her house though, but feels its unfair his parents are struggling to get there, and living low key in the meantime.
Pained Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Is it possible to have your wedding a little closer to where everyone lives so that no one is struggling to attend, and then just have your honeymoon in Fiji?
johan Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 What's the alternative? Make her sell her house? Make her pay her own way? Make her feel guilty about it? I don't think there is any desirable alternative. At least not in the short run. If I were him, I would be much more concerned about the long run. She's made some decisions that leave her excessively dependent on you and him. That would drive me crazy. Who wants to feel obligated to sweep in and soften her landing when she's so clearly setting herself up to fall? I would wonder if she knows you won't let her fall too hard? THAT'S not fair, and it would get on my nerves totally. It wouldn't hurt to remove any expectation that you're going to make it any easier for her if things don't go well. On second thought, one way to make that clear is to make her pay her own way. The suffering might as well start now.
SoleMate Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 It's awful to think of ANYONE in the family struggling to pay for wedding travel, or resenting the cost. So why don't you change your plans and be married close to home? Then you can use the money you saved for a honeymoon in Fiji. The bigger question may be what the overall spending should be on any family member, given all the various circumstances. People lose their jobs, have health problems, etc. Yes, family should take care of family. But only if there is real need. Poor planning or needless extravagance do not constitute need in my book.
johan Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Sorry, I know she's your mom. She just seems like she's counting on you guys a little too much. I would expect her to be a little more independent.
Mr Spock Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 How would any of you feel if during your golden years someone told YOU to move out of the house that you adored, so that you could pay for a flight to go to a wedding in Fiji?
Author Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 Johan and solemate, you both echo my fiance's feelings and his fears, to be quite honest. I used to be so blinded by my love for my mum, I could not see her faults, or see things from his point of view...but I can now. I would say the answer is that we pay, but he will end up feeling some resentment. The other option is that we also help out his parents a bit. I respect the suggestions to hold the wedding somewhere closer. The thing is, our families think it is a wonderful idea. My fiance's family especially are looking forward to it, as none of them have ever been overseas before. They are excited and happy to save hard etc. We talked it all through with them before we went ahead and started planning it. We are organising things, so we have a week's holiday with them all before the wedding. We are then going to another island for a week for our honeymoon. And overall, the actual wedding costs are cheaper this way....less guests, more things provided by the resort on the island etc. Spock...you seem to understand the way my mum feels. I can see that too. This is the second time she has bought a house beyond her means and ended up in hot water because of it though. P.S. Johan, you may remember me saying that there used to be ww3 between my fiance and my mum?? That was after she bought the first house which was too much, and then did have to sell it! Oh boy--- was that a rough time...and did I feel like the worst in the world.
Mr Spock Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Has she considered a boarder, or a room mate? If this is the case, you need to sit her down and explain you love her, which is why you're paying for her ticket but you are worried about her in the future.....
johan Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 How would any of you feel if during your golden years someone told YOU to move out of the house that you adored, so that you could pay for a flight to go to a wedding in Fiji? You're missing the point. I agree it's a sad situation, but the fact that it's a topic at all is the issue. However great the house is, if you can't comfortably afford SEVERAL plane tickets to Fiji, you need to look harder at your decisions. And I know that Thinkalot and her fiance feel stressed about it. That's evidence to me that there is too much dependence. For me, it isn't too much to expect for her mother to pick up on that and to make some changes so that her problems don't overflow onto them. She's choosing to be so vulnerable.
Mr Spock Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 I'm not missing the point at all. They're paying for his brother. They can pay for her mom without her fiancee getting upset about it. She's indicated his fear stems from worrying about the mother being dependant on them for everything because of house buying decisions-they need to discuss THAT with her, in full, and not be petty about the tickets. They're getting married in Fiji, for christsakes, it's a HUGE cost for their families to incur for their happiness.
moimeme Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 I agree with Johan absolutely. Spock, the lady is an adult woman and should be behaving like one - which means if she has to move out of her large fancy house because she can't afford it, that's what she must do. It is unfair that she lives an irresponsible financial life and that others then help her out or fret about her. However, you have already promised to pay her way as well as that of the brother so it's too late to renege on that. But you should make it clear to your mother that that's the last favour, that you're not going to continue to bail her out, and that she has to take responsibility for her own life. Tough love isn't only for kids, after all.
Mr Spock Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 I do agree with you moimeme on the fact that it's too late to renenge. However, I feel the fiancee is being petty in terms of paying for the tickets, he should tackle the larger issue of her financial independance head on and not stress out thinkalot with this when they're paying for his brother as well. I never got that her mother was destitute, just that she didn't have a lot of extra money for things like flying to fiji.....
Author Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 OK. We HAVE discussed all our concerns with her in full, including suggestions of a boarder. Numerous times. The tickets are a symptom of the bigger picture and my fiance's bigger concerns. I have talked to mum at length about this in the past. I posted about this specific issue, just to see what other people's viewpoints were, before I discussed my fiance's concerns further with him. I did not want to blindly defend mum, or get defensive and upset with him, without taking the broader picture into account, and standing in his shoes. As it happens, his brother has called today and said he refuses to have us pay his way. That he will manage, and would prefer to pay. Obviously, we WILL pay for mum to get there, rather than her not go at all. She was all for the Fiji plans herself. We have chosen to do something different for our wedding, and to include a holiday with friends and family. As I said, we talked it through with our families before we were even engaged to see how they'd feel about it. I have told mum numerous times that she has to live within her means, and accept her choices and be responsible for them. My fiance has also done that, which is what sparked all the conflict between them in the first place, and ended up leaving me torn in the middle, before I finally realised he was right. Moi...we wont be reneging. I just hope this doesn't breed too much resentment from my fiance. So long as mum accepts her choices and lives with them, he can handle it. But when there is an overflow onto us, he gets tense, understandably. I have today suggested to him that we assist his Dad if needs be, to make things fair. He and I meanwhile, I working and saving hard, and being entirely responsible for ourselves and this wedding.
johan Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Post deleted. I can share it via PM. Sorry, Thinkalot. It wasn't anything bad. I just figure you got all the feedback you needed on this from me.
Mr Spock Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Yes, and I also agree that they should sit down and tell her they won't offer her any more financial assistance.
Author Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 That's what we are going to do johan. In the future though, the boundaries will be set fairly...we won't be able to help out when we start our own family for example. In fact, I think the boundaries are already set fairly...but the wedding was an exception, given that it is a wedding....and it seemed fair to help a family member on either side. I think that after thinking about it longer, my fiance started to feel his irritation rise, especially as his brother is now refusing the help. And especially as he is a financial advisor, and advised against this house. Tough love?..... it's also tough on the person giving it if you ask me!
Author Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 well thanks all for your feedback and letting me bounce my feelings and issues off you. It helps me keep a balanced view.
Mr Spock Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Ok. To preserve sanity, explain to him what's done is done, that you all will have a sit down talk AFTER the wedding, and it's not going to be discussed anymore until after. No fights. Just forget it's even an issue for a while...a little avoidance can be a good thing sometimes.
Author Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 OK..good advice. That way it's accepted, he has aired his views and I have acknowledged them...we both know we cant do anything to change it now...so we just accept the state of play and move on for now. Got it. Thanks. There is the chance she may have to sell up BEFORE the wedding. In which case, my fiance feels she will then be well able to pay her own way. And he will expect that to happen.
Bunnyboy Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Hi all, I haven't posted for a while. Just to remind you I am Thinkalots fiance. First of all, Johan, from reading your posts over the last 4 months I feel that you are so much like me in so many ways it is scary. ANYWAY...........on with it! Thinkalots mum frustrates me in so many ways with her financial situation. To make a mistake once is ok (this is the second time in 2 years that she has bought a house that she cannot afford), but to make the exact same mistake twice, after being told be me (a financial planner) that she can't afford it is irresponsible and in my opinion just plain STUPID! Now it is certain that she will be selling the house soon as she just can't afford to keep it. I don't wish to renige the offer to pay for the trip to FIJI as the offer has been made (i understand this), but I do feel that when she sells the house she will realise over $500,000 and can can pay for her own trip! I am so frustrated by he lack of awareness, and wouldn't be surprised if she sat on the money and still made us pay for the trip, without even offering to look after herself! This is the real frustrating bit. I think that if she would be sitting on that type of wealth that seriously she should make advances to say that she can now afford the trip herself! Isn't that reasonable???? Think hasn't posted the full picture as usual (she does love her mum too much to always show the full extent) and as such I can see how spock can say that i should grow up and stop being petty, but in light of this new info spock I am sure that you should not think the same. Thanks for listening to my rant on this...................i will go away now and continue to be frustrated by this woman who expects handouts from us! Bunny boy
Author Thinkalot Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 Hey Bunnyboy! I did TRY to post the full picture this time, sweetie! Lol! Still too soft was I? Hope you feel a bit better for getting this off your chest.
mintjulep Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 In all fairness, Bunnyboy, I think that Thinkalot was a lot more fair about the situation this time than she has been in other posts regarding this topic (purely out of love, understandably), and this time she did paint the whole picture. I do agree that mom should be responsible for herself considering the circumstances, but I see nothing wrong with Thinkalot wanting to help out as her daughter. However, as I saw it, both of your stories were the exact same story. I think you've tried being strong with her, tried being reasonable, and I think mom is just going to be a pain in the butt forever. I have a few family members that are just pains - we love them anyway
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