What did you feel was different or special...

[Tenacity]

... about your A?

 

This topic was posted last week and the thread was jacked for some reason I could not understand. It was stated by moderation that it would be cleaned up and unlocked within 24 hours, but it's still locked. I had wanted to post a reply so it looks like my only option is to start a new thread. I think it's a great topic, and one that really defined my A.

 

I thought my A was completely special and unique. First, we were best friends for a long time first. He was caring and considerate, being a terrific friend to me over and over when i needed support. And he was extremely intelligent, and emotionally very open. It was SO clear how much he cared for me. He made it clear in every action.

 

Plus, I had faith in myself. I've always been a great judge of character. I am educated, intelligent, experienced in relationships, and emotionally guarded. I was so sure of his feelings for me and the relationship. We were SO close. I have never been that emotionally close to another person in my life.

 

I had spent some time here on LS during the early years in the A and none of the posts looked anything like my situation. I even used to post here, years ago, under a different name, to offer a "different perspective", and at the time everything was perfect. I really thought i was different than most of the posters here, and that i had it all together.

 

I was really happy, even just being in an A. It was enough for me when I loved him so much and he was so receptive and loving to me.

 

Over the years things started to change. Pretty gradually at first, but I was confident. I knew of his love for me and I knew his M was crappy. The first big change came on DDay (which he initiated - i had not mentioned him getting a D to be with me full time) to tell her he loved me and wanted out of the M. Well, she fell apart. Cried for days, and he felt like a complete and selfish heel. That's when his treatment of me started to change, and when I kept putting up with less and less from him over time and he became less and less 'loving' to me.

 

It was gradual, not at all an 'overnight' thing. If it had not been so gradual I think I could have reacted to it with more resolve and strength. I don't know what his reasons were, but I think they were driven of guilt. it didn't matter, because over that time I gradually handed over all my power to him and his behavior towards me went - over time - from less loving to downright terrible. I would never have dreamed him capable of it. I knew him so well!

 

He is a good person, not that I'm making excuses for him. What I am saying is that this perfect long-term A I was in did not turn out so happily ever after. He made his choice and in doing so, ultimately recommitted to his M. Not because they had a great emotional or physical connection, but for his own reasons.

 

For me to have turned my power over to him so pathetically was so out of character for my personality that no one would have believed it. I never would have believed it, during the perfect early years of our close friendship and affair, but somehow I became so emotionally invested in him I was willing to hang on to any shreds of what was left from that time of happiness. I didnt recognize what was happening until i was in a terrible place. It scares me how that transformation occurred with me having no power over it (of course I did, but I wasn't strong enough at that point - I just needed him in my life).

 

So... That's how I thought it as special. I was so sure of it that nothing could have convinced me otherwise. But, to use a quote from another member's signature.... my knight in shining armour turned out to be a dork wrapped in tin foil.

[veryhappy]

Wow, such a cautionary tale for me if I needed one. My already broken heart breaks for you.

 

It was very similar for me. I thought that that specialness was shared and he sure was feeling the same way. Not so it turns out.

 

How long did you continue seeing him after his confession? I could sense him pulling away after telling her he wanted to divorce, and it was gut-wrenching to sense that loss.

[Spark1111]

Tenacity, I have nothing to contribute to your thread, except to say I remember you from your darker days in this relationship, I wanted to have tea with you and comfort you and then, smack some sense into you.

 

Please forgive me. But darling, look at you now! Just wow! What insight and introspection and wisdom.

 

I am very proud of you. You should be proud of you too!:bunny:

 

I think you have just described, very poignantly, a wonderful woman who descends.....into a situation that takes her some time to realize is not only beneath her, but ultimately is gravely harming her and changing her for the worse.

 

Honestly, beautifully written.

 

Good luck to you. It will only get better for you and I am rooting for you.

 

Remember: NEVER accept unacceptable behavior. Know WHAT you want, and identify when you are no longer getting it.

 

BRAVA!

[Tenacity]

Wow, such a cautionary tale for me if I needed one. My already broken heart breaks for you.

 

It was very similar for me. I thought that that specialness was shared and he sure was feeling the same way. Not so it turns out.

 

How long did you continue seeing him after his confession? I could sense him pulling away after telling her he wanted to divorce, and it was gut-wrenching to sense that loss.

 

I (stupidly) continued for several years after he told her. He was going back and forth during this time, but he continued on the path of pulling away from me and focusing on his M. He set more and more limits over time and was more and more distant. He still wanted contact with me (still does, to this day) but only on his extremely limited terms.

 

Yes, the feeling of his pulling away was devastating. That's when things started to shift, and I sensed that I was no longer in control of the situation I thought I had complete control over... and it became about me hanging onto him in whatever capacity I could, because the pain was such that I could not fathom losing him - remember he was my best friend, too. Any little bit seemed better than nothing at all.

 

I wish i could adequately express the difference between the first happy and wonderful years, and how things ended up. I would not wish the pain this caused me on my worst enemy.

[Tenacity]

Tenacity, I have nothing to contribute to your thread, except to say I remember you from your darker days in this relationship, I wanted to have tea with you and comfort you and then, smack some sense into you.

 

Please forgive me. But darling, look at you now! Just wow! What insight and introspection and wisdom.

 

I am very proud of you. You should be proud of you too!:bunny:

 

I think you have just described, very poignantly, a wonderful woman who descends.....into a situation that takes her some time to realize is not only beneath her, but ultimately is gravely harming her and changing her for the worse.

 

Honestly, beautifully written.

 

Good luck to you. It will only get better for you and I am rooting for you.

 

Remember: NEVER accept unacceptable behavior. Know WHAT you want, and identify when you are no longer getting it.

 

BRAVA!

 

Thank you so much spark. Your post brought tears to my eyes.

 

I wish you could have smacked sense into me back then. I sure needed it. It took me SO long to get to this place. Lots of wasted years.

[SecretFlower]

Hmm...That's a really hard question. I think because we were both so young when we began our affair it felt so much more exciting and scandalous than anything we had ever experienced. Obviously, we had both been with other people and been in relationships, but it was so taboo in our community that it was a bit exhilarating. Now, it's embarrassing to admit, but then I felt like he was the only one in the world that understood me. I still think he gets me more than anyone can, but that's more because we are so similar.

Comparing my failed marriage and the men I've dated since and before the A I can say the biggest difference was the passion. While the relationship was undoubtedly toxic we would be fighting one minute and absolutely in love the next. There was no middle ground until we hit rock bottom and our relationship ended. I guess the very thing that ended our relationship (the general burn out of passion) was also a component of the whole thing that kept me in the relationship.

Sorry if this was way long and overdone, but your question has given me something to think about.

[veryhappy]

With the hope that it offers some comfort, it was reading the endless stories online that made me force an end on my A. I had this strong feeling of my story being different, and the outcome happy, and I believed in him, but had to look at that and compare it to how the odds were stacked against me.

 

The two of us made sense together. We both felt like the authentic selves with each other. It felt genuine. I liked him on a level that is unique to him. I know I can find other good matches out there, but he was he and the two of us together was an unexpected surprise. I can't get him in anyone else. Well, that might be both good and bad. He used the word soulmate and I was the woman of his dreams and all he's ever wanted in a woman...I'm not into the soulmate stuff, and his communication skills left to be desired, but he did touch my soul. He was special to me, to my brain, to my body.

 

Well, hope he's enjoying his W now lol. Looking until her eyes telling her she's his soulmate.

Edited October 7, 2012 by cutedragon

[Spark1111]

His wife's, or any long term SO he lives with day in and day out will NEVER resonate that soul mate stare to him. It's not you. It is biology.

 

When we are first in love, we release a hormone that actually produces a heroin-like high, and it is as addicting.

 

Within two years of all-day, every day, co-habitation ,it starts fading and the rose-colored glasses wear off and we begin to see he doesn't pick up after himself and WHY do I have to remind him to take out the garbage or pay the phone bill?

 

This is normal. The second stage of ANY long term relationship is called disillusionment because those limerance hormones have faded. And yes, the sex and passion is less hot.

.

In an affair, the limerance hormones last longer because there is NOT unlimited access to the partner.....they continue to build because ANTICIPATION of when and how you will meet and see each other again... fuels the heroin-like hormones. Then, they abate and start to build again until the next meet up.

 

It's like being 17 and trying to find ways to sneak out to see the BF your parents disapprove of....and then meeting up and all that passion and mating like rabbits.:bunny:

 

Remember, the affair scenario produces hormones that are like heroin...as addictive, as destructive, rendering poor judgement and throwing rational thinking right out the window for a long, long time.

 

In that alone, all affairs are alike. In that alone, all affairs are not unique and are so often ill-fated.

 

Being with this man all day, every day, with NO limitations to seeing and being with him, these hormones, which make everything more vivid and both physically and emotionally intense, fade within two years.

 

Give yourselve a break...even in memory, these chemicals heighten what you said, what he said, what is remembered about the affair. His brain is on the same drugs too!

 

Nothing will compare to your brain on drugs. Stop beating yourselves up. We always romanticize life and we keepgoing back to the wonderful parts, especially if it felt, oh so good.

 

Want to break the addiction? Go back to the not-so-wonderful parts. Those not glossed over by oxycontin.

 

Realistically try to remember the man, the relationship, what you were given and what you did not get.

 

Sometimes, the truth lies OUTSIDE our favorable and happy memories tainted by limerance hormones. That is where we need to dwell.

 

In the reality of our situations.

[Tenacity]

Hmm...That's a really hard question. I think because we were both so young when we began our affair it felt so much more exciting and scandalous than anything we had ever experienced. Obviously, we had both been with other people and been in relationships, but it was so taboo in our community that it was a bit exhilarating. Now, it's embarrassing to admit, but then I felt like he was the only one in the world that understood me. I still think he gets me more than anyone can, but that's more because we are so similar.

Comparing my failed marriage and the men I've dated since and before the A I can say the biggest difference was the passion. While the relationship was undoubtedly toxic we would be fighting one minute and absolutely in love the next. There was no middle ground until we hit rock bottom and our relationship ended. I guess the very thing that ended our relationship (the general burn out of passion) was also a component of the whole thing that kept me in the relationship.

Sorry if this was way long and overdone, but your question has given me something to think about.

 

Thank you for your reply! I'm glad it provoked thought. That was my intent. I can't take credit for the original question though; this is an extension of the thread that wisernow posted a week or so ago.

 

I think what you said - about the thing that ended your relationship being the very thing that kept you into it for so long - is something many of us can relate to.

[Tenacity]

With the hope that it offers some comfort, it was reading the endless stories online that made me force an end on my A. I had this strong feeling of my story being different, and the outcome happy, and I believed in him, but had to look at that and compare it to how the odds were stacked against me.

 

The two of us made sense together. We both felt like the authentic selves with each other. It felt genuine. I liked him on a level that is unique to him. I know I can find other good matches out there, but he was he and the two of us together was an unexpected surprise. I can't get him in anyone else. Well, that might be both good and bad. He used the word soulmate and I was the woman of his dreams and all he's ever wanted in a woman...I'm not into the soulmate stuff, and his communication skills left to be desired, but he did touch my soul. He was special to me, to my brain, to my body.

 

Well, hope he's enjoying his W now lol. Looking until her eyes telling her she's his soulmate.

 

It's really tough. The anger I felt - and the betrayal - knowing that he didn't mean anything he said to me about the 'soulmate' stuff (he didn't use that word, but that was the jist of it) was mind boggling. To this day I think he meant it at the time, but he didn't ultimately MEAN it. I was SO angry. And so hurt. When you give your heart to someone, and to be trusting of someone like that, and then to learn that you have been duped, is the worst thing in the world.

[Tenacity]

His wife's, or any long term SO he lives with day in and day out will NEVER resonate that soul mate stare to him. It's not you. It is biology.

 

When we are first in love, we release a hormone that actually produces a heroin-like high, and it is as addicting.

 

Within two years of all-day, every day, co-habitation ,it starts fading and the rose-colored glasses wear off and we begin to see he doesn't pick up after himself and WHY do I have to remind him to take out the garbage or pay the phone bill?

 

This is normal. The second stage of ANY long term relationship is called disillusionment because those limerance hormones have faded. And yes, the sex and passion is less hot.

.

In an affair, the limerance hormones last longer because there is NOT unlimited access to the partner.....they continue to build because ANTICIPATION of when and how you will meet and see each other again... fuels the heroin-like hormones. Then, they abate and start to build again until the next meet up.

 

It's like being 17 and trying to find ways to sneak out to see the BF your parents disapprove of....and then meeting up and all that passion and mating like rabbits.:bunny:

 

Remember, the affair scenario produces hormones that are like heroin...as addictive, as destructive, rendering poor judgement and throwing rational thinking right out the window for a long, long time.

 

In that alone, all affairs are alike. In that alone, all affairs are not unique and are so often ill-fated.

 

Being with this man all day, every day, with NO limitations to seeing and being with him, these hormones, which make everything more vivid and both physically and emotionally intense, fade within two years.

 

Give yourselve a break...even in memory, these chemicals heighten what you said, what he said, what is remembered about the affair. His brain is on the same drugs too!

 

Nothing will compare to your brain on drugs. Stop beating yourselves up. We always romanticize life and we keepgoing back to the wonderful parts, especially if it felt, oh so good.

 

Want to break the addiction? Go back to the not-so-wonderful parts. Those not glossed over by oxycontin.

 

Realistically try to remember the man, the relationship, what you were given and what you did not get.

 

Sometimes, the truth lies OUTSIDE our favorable and happy memories tainted by limerance hormones. That is where we need to dwell.

 

In the reality of our situations.

 

This is a great post

 

I am a scientist too by training. (Which makes this all the more embarrassing). I understand limerance, and it is very real. It does not just occur in a marriage, though - it also happens eventually in a long-term A, but it may take longer. Perhaps years longer. But at some point, it has to be dealt with.

 

You are right about focusing on the not-so-great parts of the relationship. The rest is fantasyland, and not real life that lasts day-in and day-out with everything that has to be dealt with, and all the stresses.

[veryhappy]

Spark, there are couples where the in love feeling doesn't die after two years(Helen Fischer). It can last 25 years, but it's rare. 10-15% of marriages are truly happy marriages.

 

I am married, and I'm not falling for that he doesn't pick after himself stuff. It's not about that. Or if that kills the love, it wasn't much to begin with.

 

In my exMM case, his in love feeling with the W, the crazy desperate one lasted just weeks. We're not the same every time we fall in love; we are more absorbed by some people and less by others.

Edited October 7, 2012 by cutedragon

[Spark1111]

This is a great post

 

I am a scientist too by training. (Which makes this all the more embarrassing). I understand limerance, and it is very real. It does not just occur in a marriage, though - it also happens eventually in a long-term A, but it may take longer. Perhaps years longer. But at some point, it has to be dealt with.

 

You are right about focusing on the not-so-great parts of the relationship. The rest is fantasyland, and not real life that lasts day-in and day-out with everything that has to be dealt with, and all the stresses.

 

And the point I was trying to make is that, in an affair, the limerance does not wear off as the intermittent meeting up, and the lack of all day, every day being together, does not allow to happen to an affair, what happens in all other relationships.

 

It keeps you stuck. It keeps it vividly intense and enhances the memories, the emotions and the physicality of it. It keeps you from being objective or rational.

 

Nothing will ever compare to it. It is drugs, on steroids, interrupted. The emotions are MORE intense, the joy and pain too.

 

Only time and NC will give some clarity.

 

And like you, many a person will GO ON to think, what the hell was I thinking? WHY oh WHY did I subject myself to such misery and debasement and forfeiture of my basic principals for so long.

 

For a fix of that drug, intermittent and emotional, even after I knew it was doing me tremendous damage and causing me unbelievable pain.

 

That is why I am proud of you! You have to detox before clarity sinks in and you can even begin to realize how perverse your actions, for YOU, were.

 

You are there!

[veryhappy]

Spark, have you ever had an affair? How do you know how it is to fall in love in an affair? It's the same process that is so blessed if the people are available and it ends with a ring on the finger. It's the same process that makes two single get involved and stay in a not so great R.

 

I don't know who these clueless OW are, but I was aware of his faults, as I would have been in a regular R considering we were in love.

 

I know it's soothing for BS to nullify and invalidate the A, but it can be real. It can end badly, but it has to do more with the limitations and unnatural ending. It can't evolve, and it can't burn, and that's why the pain.

 

The dopamine high is the same. Most affairs die quickly in be first months, so just because it's an affair doesn't mean it causes addiction.

 

What's the approved detox period? After how long would the WS be considered out of the addiction fog? One month? How come they go back years later wanting to start again?

Edited October 7, 2012 by cutedragon

[Tenacity]

I don't know who these clueless OW are, but I was aware of his faults, as I would have been in a regular R considering we were in love.

 

I am not a 'clueless' OW, CD. I knew my AP for years as a best friend before getting involved.

 

I know it's soothing for BS to nullify and invalidate the A, but it can be real. It can end badly, but it has to do more with the limitations and unnatural ending. It can't evolve, and it can't burn, and that's why the pain.

 

What sparks said is true and fact. I have read her posts and she does not nullify and invalidate A's. She actually has made a great effort in posting to APs here for a long time, and has given a lot of valuable advice. Her POV is valuable. I have not always agreed with her, but it is clear from her posts that she strives to see all sides.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Tenacity

[Spark1111]

Spark, have you ever had an affair? How do you know how it is to fall in love in an affair? It's the same process that is so blessed if the people are available and it ends with a ring on the finger. It's the same process that makes two single get involved and stay in a not so great R.

 

I don't know who these clueless OW are, but I was aware of his faults, as I would have been in a regular R considering we were in love.

 

I know it's soothing for BS to nullify and invalidate the A, but it can be real. It can end badly, but it has to do more with the limitations and unnatural ending. It can't evolve, and it can't burn, and that's why the pain.

 

The dopamine high is the same. Most affairs die quickly in be first months, so just because it's an affair doesn't mean it causes addiction.

 

What's the approved detox period? After how long would the WS be considered out of the addiction fog? One month? How come they go back years later wanting to start again?

 

The limitations are exactly what heightens the feelings. There is NOTHING that compares to not being able to have what you want all the time...NOTHING.

 

I am not invalidating affairs. I am just posting to Tenacity scientific information regarding the chemistry of how we fall in love. The intensity of an affair and the fact it has to be kept secret, is what causes the chemicals to intensify.

 

Two years later? It is because the relationship is still in limerance.

 

All relationships go through three stages:

 

Limerance, disillusionment, and mature love.

 

15 to 20 percent never experience the painful disillusionment phase: Power struggles, petty squabbles, complacency, and realizing after the rose-colored glasses of limerance come off, all a couple does not have in common.

 

But 50% will get to mature love while 50% will divorce during disillusionment.

 

When it comes to science, biology, and statistics....relationships are not so unique after all.

[veryhappy]

You are assuming 50% of people who stay married are married because they feel mature love? Oh please stop making me laugh.

 

You haven't answered though. Have you had an affair? I suppose not.

[Tenacity]

T- You're an awesome B! Your story is unique only perhaps because it's you telling it. Countless stories, just like yours and mine can be read over and over on here. I so appreciate your being here, bearing your virtual soul to us. The story has been repeated multiple times, in various ways, with pretty much the same outcome.

 

I hope you're good, taking care of business. Strong woman!

 

Let's talk soon!!!

 

Thank you wisernow...would love to talk to you!

 

Your words mean a lot to me... especially because I know what an amazing and strong woman you are. Thanks again

[cocorico]

... about your A?

 

Everything!

 

He was special (still is) and unique, in so many different ways. I had never met anyone like him before.

 

Our R was and still is special. Intense, passionate, deep, playful, honest, direct, grounded, fun, open, durable, respectful, loving, connected... It went way beyond anything I could have imagined in a R.

 

We just clicked on so many levels that we knew we wanted each other in our lives.

[Spark1111]

You are assuming 50% of people who stay married are married because they feel mature love? Oh please stop making me laugh.

 

You haven't answered though. Have you had an affair? I suppose not.

 

No, I have never had an affair. And yes, married long enough, couples will get to mature love or "acceptance" of their partner and their relationship, and actually begin to relish it and enjoy what they do share.

 

Please google the stages of romantic relationships. I am only repeating lots of documented research readily available to all.

 

Sorry for the t/j tenacity.

[MissBee]

You are assuming 50% of people who stay married are married because they feel mature love? Oh please stop making me laugh.

 

You haven't answered though. Have you had an affair? I suppose not.

 

Why does it matter?

 

You said that the A love was the same as falling inlove otherwise.That means that one could extrapolate about As based on having been in love before, as it's all the same, not so?

 

And if you're asking to prove she doesn't "know", then wouldn't that be saying that it's different so only those who have beein in an A know. And if so, isn't that supporting her point that the stages of love in an A don't often work in the same way as in a regular single R or marriage?

[cocorico]

Spark, there are couples where the in love feeling doesn't die after two years(Helen Fischer). It can last 25 years, but it's rare. 10-15% of marriages are truly happy marriages.

 

I am married, and I'm not falling for that he doesn't pick after himself stuff. It's not about that. Or if that kills the love, it wasn't much to begin with.

 

.

 

Agree. We've been together significantly longer than this "limerance phase" dictates, and we're as deeply and passionately in love as ever. But then we saw each other realistically from the start, none of this fooling ourselves that he farts rainbows stuff, as I think is pretty typical in As because you're confronted with realty from the outset. So perhaps the difference is in Ms that later fall victim to infidelity is that they started out with that unicorns-and-rainbows phase and then reality hit so the WS needed to top up the fantasy feelings, whereas those Rs that start off grounded, like many As, are spared that and are based in reality from the start.