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H appears to be that rare thing...


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Posted
I'm not bitter, nor vindictive, nor hypocritical.

 

But I won't stand by and let a cheater casually talk about his cheating as though it isn't something that would tear the insides out of his spouse if she knew about it, without responding to it.

 

You brag about your cheating on someone else's thread, expect to get admonished.

 

 

This seems to be a recurring theme with some of you. By the way you fit perfectly in the group here. I post something relative to the topic, then you judgemental types get all worked up becaue I exist, get your panties in a wad and start blasting me, and the next thing you know you take the OP's thread right of topic. I would much prefer you just PM your bitter recriminations, insults and holier than thou comments and spare everyone else having to read your moralistic drivel. I have never met so many "Perfect" people on a public internet forum in my life. And I am glad you have self annonited as the defender against the cheater, of course you are in a long line of defenders on here and a little late to the lynching party. If it weren't for people like me what would you have to write about here on LS? Really pathetic, I was hoping that the moral majority would tire of balsting me as there is so much more to discuss. I think at the the root of it all, you are misrable because you couldn't keep your partner satisfied so he looked elsewhere, while I am happy in my current situation. And stating so is not bragging it just is my situation. You should probably learn how to satisfy a man and then maybe you wouldn't have to be hanging out on here taking pot shots at me to meet some unfullfilled need, and could have a life again. Have a nice day.

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Posted
You should probably learn how to satisfy a man and then maybe you wouldn't have to be hanging out on here taking pot shots at me to meet some unfullfilled need, and could have a life again. Have a nice day.

 

As it happens I don't have any problem with your love life Sauron. If you are capable of juggling it all and keeping everyone happy it's up to you. I don't like to judge anyone - as I said in my earlier post, nothing is ever that simple. But the above quote is just nasty. And it's the kind of comment is what fuels the 'wars' on here.

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Posted
This seems to be a recurring theme with some of you. By the way you fit perfectly in the group here. I post something relative to the topic, then you judgemental types get all worked up becaue I exist, get your panties in a wad and start blasting me, and the next thing you know you take the OP's thread right of topic. I would much prefer you just PM your bitter recriminations, insults and holier than thou comments and spare everyone else having to read your moralistic drivel. I have never met so many "Perfect" people on a public internet forum in my life. And I am glad you have self annonited as the defender against the cheater, of course you are in a long line of defenders on here and a little late to the lynching party. If it weren't for people like me what would you have to write about here on LS? Really pathetic, I was hoping that the moral majority would tire of balsting me as there is so much more to discuss. I think at the the root of it all, you are misrable because you couldn't keep your partner satisfied so he looked elsewhere, while I am happy in my current situation. And stating so is not bragging it just is my situation. You should probably learn how to satisfy a man and then maybe you wouldn't have to be hanging out on here taking pot shots at me to meet some unfullfilled need, and could have a life again. Have a nice day.

 

Speaking of recurring themes .... I've lost count on how many times I've read this same diatribe from you about LS posters. Hope you just cut and paste rather than having to type this out each time.

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Posted

Cheaters don't belong on a betrayed spouse's thread, unless they are there to help the BS by showing how wrong it is.

Posted
Speaking of recurring themes .... I've lost count on how many times I've read this same diatribe from you about LS posters. Hope you just cut and paste rather than having to type this out each time.

 

Hello WO, unlike some of the other group, this is a first with this poster. I don't mind typing but thank you for your concern.

Posted
Cheaters don't belong on a betrayed spouse's thread, unless they are there to help the BS by showing how wrong it is.

 

I respectfully disagree. I have not seen a rule here where it says I am not to post based on my realtionship status? If so please point me in that direction. I believe that my post was on topic and relavant to the OP's topic. I am just the other end of the equation of the affair which you all love to hate. Oh yeah you all want to blame the WS, when in reality you had a hand in creating the situation (this is the hypocrisy element). I was trying to tell the OP this in my post. There was something wrong in the marriage before it reached the point it did. You just have to look and ask questions it will surface. And I am not blaming the BS for a WS leaping into an A thats on the WS, but it takes 2 to have a bad marriage or a good one.

Posted
Cheaters don't belong on a betrayed spouse's thread, unless they are there to help the BS by showing how wrong it is.

 

...or are here to give a perspective of the mind of someone who has betrayed their spouse.

 

It is easy to give advice that agrees with any poster. It is much harder to give advice from the opposing view...especially when your current lifestyle will be in direct opposition to the poster.

 

I see the same thing when betrayed spouses overtake the OW's or OM's thread pointing out how awful they are...instead of giving advice which would be helpful.

 

It goes both ways. While we may not agree with Sauron and feel that he is wrong, he is only giving a different perspective to the discussion.

 

waterwoman, this quote of yours struck me....

I have supported him through so much. It hurts that he switched off from me when I needed him most.

 

While it was bad that he cheated on you, it made it much worse that he left you emotionally and physically at the time when you needed him most. Instead of making it better, he made it worse. It struck me because it should be a bit of advice to all married people...love is a feeling and helps us do things for our spouse because we want to. Commitment is an action that compels us to do things for our spouse because we said we would, even though at the moment we don't want to.

 

I have said over and over, because it is the one thing I have learned through my years of marriage during the ups and downs. Doing things because we have feelings of love towards our spouse is relatively easy. Doing things for our spouse when we don't feel all warm and fuzzy inside is much more difficult. However, this is what commitment is all about.

 

Hopefully your husband learned at least one thing from all of this. And as a husband who has a wife with similar health issues, I know that his life is not always easy, but he agreed to it when he said I do.

 

Love is a decision...not a feeling. Genuine love implies commitment.

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Posted (edited)
.

It goes both ways. While we may not agree with Sauron and feel that he is wrong, he is only giving a different perspective to the discussion.

 

 

I agree with most of your points and certainly think varied perspectives are useful on all these forums, no matter what part of the triangle the person is from or even if they are/were part of a triangle. However, I don't see the usefulness in Sauron putting down entire groups of posters. I find it more useful to comment on the OP and to comment on specific posts - but belittling groups of posters just detracts from the discussion in my opinion.

Edited by woinlove
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Posted
I agree with most of your points and certainly think varied perspectives are useful on all these forums, no matter what part of the triangle the person is from or even if they are/were part of a triangle. However, I don't see the usefulness in putting down entire groups of posters. I find it more useful to comment on the OP and to comment on specific posts - but belittling groups of posters just detracts from the discussion in my opinion.

 

Thank you...and I agree. It would be a much better place here and in real life if we all respected the opposite position in a discussion. And no, I don't agree with Sauron's choice to passively destroy his marriage, but yet I can listen to him give an opinion if only to make me realize why I don't want his life. :laugh:

 

But IMO we are derailing the thread too much. :)

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Posted

Yes it is entirely appropriate for me to be labeled, judged and constantly attacked and assaulted by the same core group and say nothing about my opinion of them. Yes, it is a bit of tit for tat, but I would direct you to my original post on LS, and review the warm welcome I received. As I have maintained all along, I have a different, position, opnion and view so there is a bias against me, which I am perfectly fine with I never asked anyone to approve of me or my lifestyle. Some people want to corner the market on there advice giving and make it gospel in this forum no matter how bad or awful it is.

Posted (edited)
a WS who refuses to blame his spouse for his affair.

 

Having been on LS for a few weeks I have absorbed the message from at least 50% of the posters that any affair is a symptom of a failed marriage. That the BS must be responsible in part for the affair. I have totally rock-bottom self-esteem right now so I was prepared to beleive it .So I asked him. I asked him a hundred times - what was wrong, what did I do wrong, what should I have been doing, how did I fail you? Every time the answer came back - nothing, you did nothing wrong, there was nothing serious wrong with our marriage, you are not to blame, it's all my fault for being selfish and stupid.

 

Great! It's not my fault. I'm not such a failure as LS wants to paint me as a BS!

 

But that leaves me with the question. If I didn't cause this, I have no control over it happening again. There is nothing I can do. And that feels really bad. :( It means I simply have to trust him, his character and his love for me. Tricky.

 

I would so love to get off this damned rollercoaster......

 

I'm not an expert, but from what I have learned here, observing those who have not cheated, those who have not, those who are involved in affairs, I think a person who has chosen to cheat has to do work to understand why and to change, if they want to be honest and faithful in the future. That means there is much work they alone have to do.

 

However, marriage is a journey of two people and what affects one, affects the other. I don't think you simply have to trust him, but if you want to stay married and have a strong and fulfilling marriage, you have believe that he can change and be honest and trustworthy. The trust will come back with time as you witness the change. My impression from LS is that it is a long journey, measured in years, not in weeks or even months. But what you can do is support him in his efforts to change, whether those efforts include counselling, self-reflection, talking it out with you, refocussing toward his R with you, constructive interests and hobbies, etc.

 

IMO, a happy marriage has to start with two happy individuals. We can all keep learning more about ourselves and others and how to bring more happiness into our lives. I would try not to only focus on your H, his actions, his changes, but to also focus on yourself and what you can do yourself to be happier. I think this is good whether one is reeling from betrayal or not. And I believe it strengthens a M if your values lean toward honesty and loyalty, then what makes you happy will also be compatible with a strong M. At least that is my own experience.

Edited by woinlove
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Posted
...Having been on LS for a few weeks I have absorbed the message from at least 50% of the posters that any affair is a symptom of a failed marriage. That the BS must be responsible in part for the affair...

 

Great! It's not my fault. I'm not such a failure as LS wants to paint me as a BS!

 

At the risk of retyping the same info ad nauseam, there are no perfect people and therefore, no perfect marriages. It doesn't matter how much we love or how in love we are with a person, how giving, strong, focused or driven, all of us at times will exhibit the tendency to be weak, needy, controlling or manipulative. Not always sexy. Not always perky. Not always well.

 

That means of course, that if a person seeking to step outside of a marriage is looking for a reason, it will not be difficult to find one.

 

The fact that your husband is taking the high road through the cesspool doesn't make it any better or easier to deal with. Beware of those who say "It isn't you, it's me" because nine-times out of ten, it's you. At the very least is an admission that you're a poor judge of character or easily capable of being hookwinked. "I'm sorry dear. It isn't your fault that you married a person who decided to start a relationship with someone else and push you out of the love triangle. It's me. Not you. Feel better?"

 

But that leaves me with the question. If I didn't cause this, I have no control over it happening again. There is nothing I can do. And that feels really bad. :( It means I simply have to trust him, his character and his love for me. Tricky.

 

Thing is, you never did. As I explained above. If there was something we could do to fix a cheater, we would, wouldn't we? Isn't that why so many betrayed spouses bend over backwards? But as illustrated again and again, that doesn't work. And even if it did, that's a poor life to live, walking on eggshells, living with the weight of being perfect so our spouses won't step out again. That isn't love, that's a slow death. That's the nasty reality that caused me and many other betrayed spouses to cut loose and let go.

 

Trust and love if you must, but at some point you'd be wise to examine your life and determine just exactly what you expect to get out of it. IMO.

 

Please do keep us posted. You've written a very intelligent and thought-provoking post. Much to consider and learn here. Hang in there-

Posted
Yes it is entirely appropriate for me to be labeled, judged and constantly attacked and assaulted by the same core group and say nothing about my opinion of them. Yes, it is a bit of tit for tat, but I would direct you to my original post on LS, and review the warm welcome I received. As I have maintained all along, I have a different, position, opnion and view so there is a bias against me, which I am perfectly fine with I never asked anyone to approve of me or my lifestyle. Some people want to corner the market on there advice giving and make it gospel in this forum no matter how bad or awful it is.

 

The funny thing is what you see in others, others see in you.

 

The post that got you all riled up didn't label, attack or assault you. it asked if you felt entitled to cheat rather than to work to try to fix the faults in your M or end your M. You were the one who then attacked calling the poster bitter, vindictive and hypocritical and when she replied, you went off on your usual tirade against LS posters more generally. I suspect that is what you like to do, so I suspect my responding now is all for naught. I won't do it again, except to say when I again notice your tirade against entire groups of posters - unless it is in a thread started for the purpose of going on a tirade against groups of posters - I will again respond that I don't think it is useful.

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Posted
I would direct you to my original post on LS, and review the warm welcome I received.
Not to continue to T/J, but if you come to a forum that is not specifically built for cheaters but rather for repairing and enhancing relationships, and you proclaim your cheating and your intention to CONTINUE cheating, well, what would you expect? I'm asking honestly. Did you expect to be welcomed amidst a bunch of people harmed by cheaters?
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Posted

The post that got you all riled up didn't label, attack or assault you. it asked if you felt entitled to cheat rather than to work to try to fix the faults in your M or end your M.

 

WO brings up a good point. Please note that this post comes from a man who was betrayed many years ago, stayed to raise my boys, then had an exit affair 15 years later and divorced. Have been married to my affair partner more than 40 years now. So, a cheatee who became a cheater, if you will. I have had to deal with a great amount of nasty comments and judgements. I have tried to be civil and answer questions honestly in order to provide my perspective / point of view to threads. It is my opinion that by hearing from all sides of the triangle is the way in one develops a true understanding of affairs.

 

Sauron (and forgive me because I have not read all of your threads so this may be a moot point) maybe simply answering the question posed might have had better results? Yes, I know that often answering the question will often result in a whole new tirade of insults and judgements. But, eventually, having been around off and on for a few years now, I have gotten to a position of mutual respect with many of the older posters. Although, I definitely continue to be judged very harshly by the new posters, I just try to respond honestly and civilly in the hope that we all might benefit from these conversations.

 

Just my two cents, for whatever they are worth.

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Posted

I sound a bit pathetic and useless and constantly ill. I am not! I suffer from depression, have done on and off since my late teens but it wasn't diagnosed till my second baby was a year old. HOWEVER most of the time I am fit, healthy, active and hard-working. I also suffer from athsma but that hasn't stopped me doing anything either. I have 3 kids, a full-time job and make a fairly good fist of all those things. I also run a lot - although injuries have reduced that somewhat of recent years. I have always earned more than H so not a financial burden either. In fact I was the only earner for a few years when he was studying to be a teacher

 

Thanks :D

 

The depression just happened to have got worse in the last few years - reaching a peak in Jan this year. And I have no doubt that it, and the depressed me, was a factor in our marriage being less than perfect. So I am quite happy to own my contribution the the circumstances.

Posted (edited)
I sound a bit pathetic and useless and constantly ill. I am not! I suffer from depression, have done on and off since my late teens but it wasn't diagnosed till my second baby was a year old. HOWEVER most of the time I am fit, healthy, active and hard-working. I also suffer from athsma but that hasn't stopped me doing anything either. I have 3 kids, a full-time job and make a fairly good fist of all those things. I also run a lot - although injuries have reduced that somewhat of recent years. I have always earned more than H so not a financial burden either. In fact I was the only earner for a few years when he was studying to be a teacher

 

Thanks :D

 

The depression just happened to have got worse in the last few years - reaching a peak in Jan this year. And I have no doubt that it, and the depressed me, was a factor in our marriage being less than perfect. So I am quite happy to own my contribution the the circumstances.

 

First you didn't sound pathetic to me. Second, one can always strive to improve both oneself and one's contribution to one's M, whether there is infidelity or not. One thing that struck me is you saying that you have always earned more than your H. I've seen studies that claim that the husband is more likely to have an A if his W earns more. Although many husbands earn less and do not have affairs, this does seem to be one factor for some men. Perhaps their own insecurity. Not sure if this played any role for your own H - it may not have.

 

As for depression playing a role, it also seems that some men cheat when their wife is ill - that actually seems to be quite common. Very few people go through life without some extended illness or crisis, depression just being one of many possibilities. I think it is something internal to the person who cheats that they are unable to be there and support their spouse through an illness or crisis. As difficult as that may be, most mature people do have the internal resources and commitment to do this. My H and I always make an extra effort to support and be there when the other is having a tough time, and to be there extra for our children through such times. It is sad that some chose just this time to start a secret affair. Again, I think your H has a lot to learn about himself.

Edited by woinlove
Posted
The funny thing is what you see in others, others see in you.

 

The post that got you all riled up didn't label, attack or assault you. it asked if you felt entitled to cheat rather than to work to try to fix the faults in your M or end your M. You were the one who then attacked calling the poster bitter, vindictive and hypocritical and when she replied, you went off on your usual tirade against LS posters more generally. I suspect that is what you like to do, so I suspect my responding now is all for naught. I won't do it again, except to say when I again notice your tirade against entire groups of posters - unless it is in a thread started for the purpose of going on a tirade against groups of posters - I will again respond that I don't think it is useful.

 

Well WO, not sure how you can draw that conclusion. As I recall, on my original post, one person wanted a special place in hell for me, as an example, that was one of the kinder comments. I haven't reaad it in a while. And you are incorrect that it is LS posters in general, I think there are a lot of intelligent enlightened people on here, it is certain LS posters that spend a lot of time on here in this section. Anyway, hope you have a nice day.

Posted
Not to continue to T/J, but if you come to a forum that is not specifically built for cheaters but rather for repairing and enhancing relationships, and you proclaim your cheating and your intention to CONTINUE cheating, well, what would you expect? I'm asking honestly. Did you expect to be welcomed amidst a bunch of people harmed by cheaters?

 

My original post was in the OW section and the mods moved it to the infidelity section. I really had no intention of going there, but I am glad I did as they definitely need an alternative to what's there.

Posted
I sound a bit pathetic and useless and constantly ill. I am not! I suffer from depression, have done on and off since my late teens but it wasn't diagnosed till my second baby was a year old. HOWEVER most of the time I am fit, healthy, active and hard-working. I also suffer from athsma but that hasn't stopped me doing anything either. I have 3 kids, a full-time job and make a fairly good fist of all those things. I also run a lot - although injuries have reduced that somewhat of recent years. I have always earned more than H so not a financial burden either. In fact I was the only earner for a few years when he was studying to be a teacher

 

Thanks :D

 

The depression just happened to have got worse in the last few years - reaching a peak in Jan this year. And I have no doubt that it, and the depressed me, was a factor in our marriage being less than perfect. So I am quite happy to own my contribution the the circumstances.

 

I don't think you sound pathetic or useless, just an unhappy human at the moment. Did your sex life suffer? Did you fight, have bad communications, anything you could put your finger on? My wife and I are basically sexually incompatiable, we used to have raging fights about it, tried a number of self help stratgies that never worked. She went to counseling just recently as I think she is starting to realizie that life in not infinite and maybe its time to try and solve the probelm. I found a solution that works for me. I will say that we are much happier today than we ever have been in the last 30 plus years.

 

What kind of meds do you take for your depression?

Posted (edited)
Well WO, not sure how you can draw that conclusion. As I recall, on my original post, one person wanted a special place in hell for me, as an example, that was one of the kinder comments. I haven't reaad it in a while. And you are incorrect that it is LS posters in general, I think there are a lot of intelligent enlightened people on here, it is certain LS posters that spend a lot of time on here in this section. Anyway, hope you have a nice day.

 

I didn't know you were religious. :) I'm atheist, so heaven, hell, whatever - I care about this lifetime and what I do with it and how I touch the lives of others. If someone wants to reserve a special place in hell for me when I'm dead, be my guest. On the other hand, if I've done something to hurt them, or shown I hurt others, to make them feel that way, then that concerns me a lot.

 

I was referring to the posts on this thread. I didn't realize your responses on this and some other threads are still in response to things said on your original thread weeks ago. Thanks for the clarification on your view of LS posters as your posts on that topic I'm familiar with appear to view the majority negatively -- always difficult to know when a poster slams a whole group of posters at once, without referring to the individuals or to the specific posts, just how many posters they are taking issue with. Again, one doesn't run into this if one focusses on posts rather than on posters.

 

Even intelligent posters (not that I care to judge the intelligence of any poster, I just try to respond to posts) can post something stupid and insight can come from an unlikely source. Another reason for focussing on posts.

Edited by woinlove
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Posted

Hi Sauron - yes our sex life took a dip, as did our ability to communicate with each other. He teaches in a school for children with severe behavioural issues and learning difficulties - basically dealing with the sort of children that society struggles with. He gets very involved with them but also has to put up with chairs being thrown at him, punched, kicked and spat at from time to time. It's emotionally draining. So he needed me as much as I needed him and neither of us were able to deliver. We undoubtedly needed to address our problems but we simply couldn't find the energy to do so as well as as carry on our lives. So he had an affair. Not a good response IMO. But this is where we are and this is what we have to deal with. No point finger pointing from either of us. But if he had told me it was my fault on D-Day I'd have had little trouble in booting him out as it would have been utterly untrue and unjust!

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Posted

H has had a bit of a Road to Damascus moment it seems. After my hysterical rant and sobbing on Tuesday he sat down and wrote me a letter. Laying out his feelings calmly and clearly after thinking it all through. He understood that I was simply at the end of my rope with uncertainty. So he made it clear. Feel much better now and have some real hope again.

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