H appears to be that rare thing...

[waterwoman]

a WS who refuses to blame his spouse for his affair.

 

Having been on LS for a few weeks I have absorbed the message from at least 50% of the posters that any affair is a symptom of a failed marriage. That the BS must be responsible in part for the affair. I have totally rock-bottom self-esteem right now so I was prepared to beleive it .So I asked him. I asked him a hundred times - what was wrong, what did I do wrong, what should I have been doing, how did I fail you? Every time the answer came back - nothing, you did nothing wrong, there was nothing serious wrong with our marriage, you are not to blame, it's all my fault for being selfish and stupid.

 

Great! It's not my fault. I'm not such a failure as LS wants to paint me as a BS!

 

But that leaves me with the question. If I didn't cause this, I have no control over it happening again. There is nothing I can do. And that feels really bad. It means I simply have to trust him, his character and his love for me. Tricky.

 

I would so love to get off this damned rollercoaster......

[GLDheart]

I get that you're heart broken. I am also impressed with his honesty... by very nature a "cheater's" bag of tricks contains duplicity and deception.

 

It's cliche but life IS a risk... so yeah, it can happen again. But that doesn't leave you powerless.

 

I also wouldn't take too much blame on yourself. If that relationship failed, HE was part of that equation too. And more importantly, the selfish choice of cheating after that point is solely on his shoulders.

[waterwoman]

Yes, his honesty has been pretty good. Painful but when you know the extent of the betrayal it does make it easier to start healing, even when there is a lot to heal.

 

Our marriage wasn't in a great state but I refuse to take all the blame for that - I was depressed, suicidal at one point, it's hard to live with someone like that - and as you say his choice was just about the worst one he could have made.

 

Still, onwards and upwards... Off to see my counsellor tonight.

[Silly_Girl]

Your post is touching. I feel for you.

 

No, YOU can't control whether it happens again. Like you couldn't control that it happened the first time.

 

What you can do is look for signs that your husband has LEARNED. Some kids touch the hot radiator, then go back for more. For some, that first burn is more than enough. All is not lost.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I would be suspicious honestly after what I went through. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's maddening.

 

Mine said the same thing at first, that it had nothing to do with me, no problems..she didn't know why.

 

We went to counseling for months, and she slowly turned it back on me saying it was *everything* I had done over 14 years

 

I hope your H tries to figure out why and it's not some revelation that it was your fault...does he give an answer for why?

[waterwoman]

sg - I know I need time and patience. I think he feels his fingers are badly burned so I hope the lesson has been learned. We'll see...

 

ninja - he says he just allowed himself to get too close because he didn't think it through. He thought he'd be safe. He genuinely seems to love her - a little bit of honesty I could have done without perhaps He says it wouldn't happen with anyone else. And he won't start the relationship up with her again. But but but..... well you know the drill. I don't/can't feel totally safe. Keep waiting for the other boot to drop.

 

He wants to do the right thing. He wants to be with me. But how many stories do you read on here and the OW/OM board about relationships starting up again after DDay.

 

All about trust. Which is why it's tricky.

[waterwoman]

My main problem is that I want to fix it. I want to be able to 'debug' the marriage and fix the problem like I'd do if it was an unreliable bit of software. Can't do that.

[seren]

Waterwoman, my H also says that his A had nothing to do with me or our marriage. I agree, his A had absolutely nothing to do with me or our marriage. The way our marriage was heading did, however, have something to do with us, PTSD also had a huge part to play in the A. It is never as simple as some would have you (general) believe, it is not always that there is a road wreck of a marriage and a romantic A running side by side. it is often far, far more complex than that. For sure there will be some when reason B applies, but equally there is a whole other alphabet of reasons and situations that lead to, cause or enable an A. Bottom line is, an A should never be the way to fix, manage or cope with the WS's issues.

 

5 years after D Day, my H did the work to look at what, how and why he had meltdown, I know why, I understand why and I trust him, not blindly as he had before, but nonetheless, I trust him with me and us. I was a never happen to us person, but it did, we learned from it and while I miss the never happen to us feeling, I have also realised that no one should ever say never. It is sad, but that is how it is. You know your reality, many on LS would have you think otherwise as they base it on their perception and experience of their A's.

 

I hope it all works out for you xx

[waterwoman]

barnacle - I have done that. I have been over it all so many times. I wrote him a letter telling him all the things I thought were wrong in our marriage and my responsibility for part of it. I am quite prepared to accept that things were not perfect. He agrees with my assessment but has never told me that the affair was my fault in any way.

 

In some ways the A has given us a chance to fix what was wrong. But it was a poisonous and agonising way to do it. Still not sure that the cure won't be too much for the patient.

[turnera]

My main problem is that I want to fix it. I want to be able to 'debug' the marriage and fix the problem like I'd do if it was an unreliable bit of software. Can't do that.

If you can afford a couple hundred dollars, I would advise you to sign up for a phone counseling session at marriagebuilders - but avoid their forums, they'll tear you to shreds). They've made a specialty of dealing with couples dealing with an affair; he gets right to the point and brings up concrete things to do to get your marriage back on track.

 

And also read his book His Needs Her Needs. It shows you how to affair-proof a marriage. (well, as much as you can, but you know what I mean)

Edited October 8, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[96nole]

I would be suspicious honestly after what I went through. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's maddening.

 

Mine said the same thing at first, that it had nothing to do with me, no problems..she didn't know why.

 

We went to counseling for months, and she slowly turned it back on me saying it was *everything* I had done over 14 years

I hope your H tries to figure out why and it's not some revelation that it was your fault...does he give an answer for why?

 

It's amazing how that seems to happen. It's all our fault. We made them be lying, cheating, ho's.

 

Waterwoman: Hopefully your husband is not just in damage control and truly feels this way. And yes, it is all his fault.

[JamesM]

First, I feel for the pain that you have now. Betrayal is not easy especially when it comes from the one you love.

 

Comments....

 

The definition of a bad marriage differs from person to person. I know of one guy who used his lack of sex as an excuse for an affair, and his wife was having sex with him at least once a week most of the time. He just didn't feel the spark from her. IMO, this was not a bad marriage by any stretch of the imagination and was an excuse.

 

Not all affairs are the result of a bad marriage. Affairs can be the result of a selfish partner who wants something that cannot be provided by his or her partner.

 

Not all bad marriages end in an affair. It takes two to make a good marriage, but it only takes one to choose an affair. Any marriage has its bad times (and I would know). No spouse is perfect. It is during the tough times when the feeling is gone that commitment must take over.

 

Bad marriages can contribute to one partner choosing an affair. The partner who would never consider an affair, and is placed in a position where the affair person looks so much more attractive than his/her spouse may be in that position because he or she has lost the emotional connection in his marriage.

 

We CAN contribute to making our marriage good. We can improve our marriage. We can make it bad by neglect. BUT...we cannot control our partner's reaction to a bad marriage. All we can do is do our best to prevent the breakdown of communication and connection to our spouse.

 

As you said, marriage is a risky business. However, it is not out of our control to keep it a good marriage. Yet mental and physical illnesses are part of the "for better or for worse" that spouses vow to accept. Dealing with that as a spouse is not easy, but it is harder for the person who is depressed. While we all share some blame in how our marriage goes, we cannot be blamed for illnesses that are out of our control. For the spouse who deals with a partner who has an illness, it can be frustrating, but this is when commitment must kick in and make the marriage work.

 

Don't beat yourself up over this. If your spouse says it is his fault, then he may be right. It does show his sense of responsibility and maturity to take blame for his actions. He chose an affair, and he is willing to accept the consequences. (Ironically, in some ways, you may feel better if you could grab on to something that caused the affair, so you feel you can control it from happening again.) I would want to know in detail what brought about the affair in order to prevent it from happening again. It may be him that needs to prevent it, but knowing what brought him to that point may give you some idea how you can build the trust between the two of you again.

 

I am not sure that any of this made sense, but as a husband who has dealt with a depressed wife and a wife who lives with pain, I both understand your point and his frustration. He now knows his limitations, and if he wants this marriage to work, then he needs to know how to put up boundaries to prevent himself failing at his commitment in the future.

[waterwoman]

Thanks James. The viewpoint of a man in your position is helpful. Normally my depression is under control but I made a foolhardy attempt to come off the meds last spring and things just spiralled until I found myself standing on a motorway bridge wanting to jump off and only the fact that I had the dog with me stopped me ... This was just about the time that H's affair kicked off (still makes me mad as hell with him even though the affair is more or less forgiven).

 

I can't help my illness but I do have a responsibility to keep it as much under control as possible. And the fact that I didn't is my fault. But he wasn't there for me. That is his.

[beenburned]

WW,

 

My H has never blamed me or our marriage for his cheating.(happened in the early years of our marriage)

 

He will tell anyone that he would have cheated no matter who he was married to at that time because the whole problem was him.

 

He was very immature, selfish, and self centered, giving little thought to how bad his actions would devastate me and our marriage. It was all about having what he wanted at the expense of everyone else.

 

My H was truly remorseful and worked hard to change himself into a better person. He has never made me sorry I gave him that chance to prove himself!

[Decorative]

WW,

 

My H has never blamed me or our marriage for his cheating.(happened in the early years of our marriage)

 

He will tell anyone that he would have cheated no matter who he was married to at that time because the whole problem was him.

 

He was very immature, selfish, and self centered, giving little thought to how bad his actions would devastate me and our marriage. It was all about having what he wanted at the expense of everyone else.

 

My H was truly remorseful and worked hard to change himself into a better person. He has never made me sorry I gave him that chance to prove himself!

 

My spouse has said the same thing, and has done the same work. I could have written every word of this post.

 

I, too, have never been sorry for a minute that I gave him another chance. He has absolutely been worth it.

 

And to OP- no matter what the cause of the affair is- it always boils down to the choices of the wayward spouse, and no matter what, you can never control another person. I know it's hard- really hard, to let go and accept that, but if you do, you will be okay. I promise.

[JamesM]

Thanks James. The viewpoint of a man in your position is helpful. Normally my depression is under control but I made a foolhardy attempt to come off the meds last spring and things just spiralled until I found myself standing on a motorway bridge wanting to jump off and only the fact that I had the dog with me stopped me ... This was just about the time that H's affair kicked off (still makes me mad as hell with him even though the affair is more or less forgiven).

 

That is common...someone tries to get off meds and discovers that they still need them. I have encouraged my wife to get off meds, and sometimes she is okay without them. Other times, she is not. She longer deals with depression and isn't taking any ADs right now. She does take many meds for pain which probably is what helps kill her libido.

 

Why did you try to get off of them? Did the anti-depressants (AD) have an effect on your libido?

 

Thankfully we have our dogs! Seriously. I can see how that helped.

 

I can't help my illness but I do have a responsibility to keep it as much under control as possible. And the fact that I didn't is my fault. But he wasn't there for me. That is his.

 

Yes, you do have a responsibility, but realize that with all illnesses, there are ups and downs. And while I know that it gets hard to be a caretaker for one's spouse, it is his duty...even when he does not want to be there.

 

I know he says that it is all his to blame, but was this a difficult time in your marriage? Was your depression worse than usual before his affair, or was it worse as a reaction to his affair?

 

I am NOT trying blaming you, but perhaps it may help you better understand what happened.

[waterwoman]

Hi James

 

Yes, libido, weight-gain and just not wanting to be dependent on meds all my life! I felt OK so I thought I could stop.

 

Worse? Yes, probably. I've had ups and downs since I was first diagnosed although I have had 'low' moods since I was in my teens, but this last episode is definitely amongst the worst. This time I started feeling bad about 6 m after I stopped taking them - about the time he started seeming distant and hostile. So chicken and egg I suppose. And depression does tend to cloud the judgement so I don't know if he really was as bad as he seemed to me. I think he was - the kids noticed it too.

 

I have supported him through so much. It hurts that he switched off from me when I needed him most.

[waterwoman]

"

No. I've got to tell you that this is very, very important. I'm a person who is just an advocate of truth. I really will do anything to tell the truth, so it took me a long time to get to the point where I say, just don't tell. Because how does it make a person less guilty to inflict terrible pain on someone? Which is exactly what the confession does. It puts the other person in a permanent state of hurt and grief and loss of trust and an inability to feel safe, and it doesn't alleviate your guilt. Your relationship is dealt a potentially devastating blow. Honesty is great, but it's an abstract moral principle.... The higher moral principle, I believe, is not hurting people. And when you confess to having an affair, you are hurting someone more than you can ever imagine. So I tell people, if you care that much about honesty, figure out who you want to be with, commit to that relationship and devote the rest of your life to making it the most honest relationship you can. But confessing your affair is the kind of honesty that is unnecessarily destructive. There are two huge exceptions to not telling: if you're having an affair and you haven't practiced safe sex, even if it's only one time, you have to tell. Again, the moral principle is minimizing the hurt. But this time, the greatest risk of hurt comes from inflicting a sexually transmitted disease, and I've never seen a relationship recover from that. You also have to tell if discovery is imminent or likely. If you're going to be found out, then it's better for you to be the one to make the confession first. "

 

You see, much as I demanded honesty from H, I think it has bitten me very hard on the ar*e! Yes, I wanted to know what went on, I needed to be let in to the secret, i needed to be able to understand what H had been unilaterally doing to our marriage. That is a given. But he shouldn't have told me he loved her. And that he still does. Because now he's stuck with that truth and if he tries to say 'It's OK I don't love her' anytime soon I am not gonig to be able to beleive him am I? So that little 'truth' is stuck between us and is driving us apart. I love him more than I have ever loved anyone. he loves me the same but I can't get past the fact that he also cares for her. And I am banging my head on a wall expecting it to change. And it is starting to hurt too much. A little comforting lie would have been better - what good has it done me to know how he feels about her? None at all. I just have to sit and wonder how much hurt he's feeling missing her, what thoughts about her are flitting through his head. Arrggggghhh!!!!

[seren]

WW, while I can sort of get what you are saying, re not telling, I am of the mind that it would all come out eventually and to find out years later would be worse. I asked for and got every little detail and it hurt, then it hurt some more, but after the process of healing, it just becomes details. The lies hurt more than the infidelity. The gaslighting made me think I was going crazy and to find there had been an A was almost a relief, it explained so much.

 

My H had no feeling for the OW, it made it worse for me. I could understand an A for love or feelings, but not using someone and the lack of it actually meaning anything actually damaged how I viewed H for a long while. It said to me he had used the OW and that, IMO, showed a lack of integrity. No matter how much he knew the 'it didn't mean a thing' was worse than 'I loved her' he couldn't say it as it wasn't what it was. It is probably why I had empathy for the OW as she was so hurt by H ending the A so badly.

 

I think everyone is entitled to informed choices about their life. Truth hurts, but he has shown where he wants to be and that is with you. Yes I can see how hard it is to get past the I loved her, don't know if I could get past the I STILL love her. That is a different kettle of fish entirely. I hope it works out for you. xx

[turnera]

Have you read up about PEA chemicals yet? You need to. It explains why he feels 'in love' with her. When it may just be the rush of chemicals in his body that you get when you date someone (or have an affair with them) that make you FEEL in love.

[Sauron]

Disclaimer: I have been having an affair with my current OW for 7 years, I also have another one I see here and there evver so often. If it ever surfaces I will spare my wife and tell her everything you have read here, it's not her fault. Like one other poster said, it may not be you individually but it may be the combination of both of you.

 

We have signifcant structural issues in our marriage, she won't, can't change enough and neither can I. I will accept all the blame and then she can decide what she wants to do. Maybe I would have been a better husband if we could have found common ground or maybe I wouldn't have been, I am selfish and arrogant and I know myself. I do know if things would have been great throughout I might have thought twice about cheating more before leaping.

 

I do feel for you if you are using anti-depressants/psych meds. I am not sure how you quit the first time. From everything I have read a slow taper off these drugs is advised, and going cold turkey is NOT. I do know that you can not make informed decisions about anything important on these drugs. If you want to get off them, talk to your doctor or find one that has expierence getting people off them and can give you some supervision. Good luck to you.

[waterwoman]

turnera - I have been googling at your recommendation and it has been interesting. After a conversation with H tonight I think he has too, It may be that we have reached a breakthrough in ouir understanding of each other. I hope so. I am worn out.

 

sauron - I have read some of your story. I admire your honesty about your situation. I confess I think I would find you a bit terrifying in RL . Pleased that you wouldn't allow your wife feeling that is was all her fault. Things are never simple. No-one chooses to have a failed or inadequate marriage and in my experience life isn't about making the very best choices, it's about making the best choices for the situation you find yourself in.

 

Thanks everyone

[turnera]

Maybe I would have been a better husband if we could have found common ground. I do know if things would have been great throughout I might have thought twice about cheating more before leaping.

So...because your marriage sucked, you were entitled to cheat? You know, rather than FIX what sucked about it or divorcing first?

 

Uh huh.

[Sauron]

So...because your marriage sucked, you were entitled to cheat? You know, rather than FIX what sucked about it or divorcing first?

 

Uh huh.

 

You are joining a long line of bitter, vindicative hypocritical types that don't like the wayI live. If you are really interested you can find the threads. I am not asking for validation, approval or absolution from you or any one here. Vey happy with my situation and all the women I am involved with are happy as well. Just offering my opinion and an alternative voice to some of the really horrible advice that gets splattered about here. Good luck to you.

[turnera]

You are joining a long line of bitter, vindicative hypocritical types that don't like the wayI live. If you are really interested you can find the threads. I am not asking for validation, approval or absolution from you or any one here. Vey happy with my situation and all the women I am involved with are happy as well. Just offering my opinion and an alternative voice to some of the really horrible advice that gets splattered about here. Good luck to you.

I'm not bitter, nor vindictive, nor hypocritical.

 

But I won't stand by and let a cheater casually talk about his cheating as though it isn't something that would tear the insides out of his spouse if she knew about it, without responding to it.

 

You brag about your cheating on someone else's thread, expect to get admonished.