DLM1977 Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Been dating a woman 14 years older than me for about 2 1/2 years. Back in June we moved into an apartment tog. We both came out of marriages so dating for both of us is much different today then it was 20+ years ago. Since we began dating I pay to go out to dinner, lunch breakfast ect. Anytime we go see a movie, sporting event I pay. During our rel I've brought up her paying once in awhile. Which has only been on my birthday. She has never offered and always blew me off when I asked her to treat. There has been numerous times she's asked to go out to eat, get drinks or suggest a movie or to take her to a ball game but never once paying. I do make twice as much money as her and don't expect much. Hell I even do most of the cooking. We both split our rent(utilities included), for the most part I pay for most of the groc that come into the house...I even do most of the shopping. To top it off she has an 18 year old daughter of lives with us. She isn't home much nor does she consume much food but that isn't the point. In addition to the 18 year old she has a 5 year old granddaughter from her oldest daughter which she watches twice per week at our apartment. When I had the cable and Internet installed and the first bill arrived I asked her to help me with it. Her response was simply "ha, I won't watch tv". In fact she uses both on a daily basis. I feel taken advantage of, disrespected ect. From the beg of the rel I saw red flags as signs of other forms of disrespect in her words or actions in how she treated me. I clearly give more in our rel then se does and is hoped after bring certain issues up shed change. That clearly hasn't happened. I love her very much, but expect her to provide more in our rel. I can provide many other instances that upset me in our rel in what she demands. When I bring them up, she totally denies it and sometimes gets def as though I'm beating her up. She gets offended if I point something out. Her ex husband certainly spoiled her as he paid for mostly everything in they're rel. I also believe she is more trad in what se expects from a man but it comes off disrespectful too. I want to continue our rel and bring these issues up but i feel like it will go unheard, more will she change. Last week when I brought up an issue in the rel she joked about it later by mocking me. Am I asking for too much here? Edited October 3, 2012 by DLM1977
River Rain Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I don't think you're asking too much, but you seemed to establish early on that you were paying for lots of stuff so she has no reason to expect you won't, unless you sit down and change the rules together and make a plan. You said you saw red flags early on, so why did you move in together? Love is the answer I'm guessing. I saw loads of red flags but I chose to ignore them out of love for my ex. We get blinded don't we? I don't think age is the issue here, I think it's communication. I say that just because this kind of thing happened to me, not money-wise, but expectation-wise. He acted just fine for a long time, like everything I did/say/act was perfect for him, then he suddenly changed the rules of expectations and left me hanging. When I tried to communicate, he went mute on me and I was never able to get him to communicate maturely with me, so things ended.
Emilia Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 No you are not asking too much and it's not the age gap. You picked a woman with c***py values. 1
todreaminblue Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Been dating a woman 14 years older than me for about 2 1/2 years. Back in June we moved into an apartment tog. We both came out of marriages so dating for both of us is much different today then it was 20+ years ago. Since we began dating I pay to go out to dinner, lunch breakfast ect. Anytime we go see a movie, sporting event I pay. During our rel I've brought up her paying once in awhile. Which has only been on my birthday. She has never offered and always blew me off when I asked her to treat. There has been numerous times she's asked to go out to eat, get drinks or suggest a movie or to take her to a ball game but never once paying. I do make twice as much money as her and don't expect much. Hell I even do most of the cooking. We both split our rent(utilities included), for the most part I pay for most of the groc that come into the house...I even do most of the shopping. To top it off she has an 18 year old daughter of lives with us. She isn't home much nor does she consume much food but that isn't the point. In addition to the 18 year old she has a 5 year old granddaughter from her oldest daughter which she watches twice per week at our apartment. When I had the cable and Internet installed and the first bill arrived I asked her to help me with it. Her response was simply "ha, I won't watch tv". In fact she uses both on a daily basis. I feel taken advantage of, disrespected ect. From the beg of the rel I saw red flags as signs of other forms of disrespect in her words or actions in how she treated me. I clearly give more in our rel then se does and is hoped after bring certain issues up shed change. That clearly hasn't happened. I love her very much, but expect her to provide more in our rel. I can provide many other instances that upset me in our rel in what she demands. When I bring them up, she totally denies it and sometimes gets def as though I'm beating her up. She gets offended if I point something out. Her ex husband certainly spoiled her as he paid for mostly everything in they're rel. I also believe she is more trad in what se expects from a man but it comes off disrespectful too. I want to continue our rel and bring these issues up but i feel like it will go unheard, more will she change. Last week when I brought up an issue in the rel she joked about it later by mocking me. Am I asking for too much here? Mocking you isn't a good sign and neither is it, you paying for everything been there done that got the bills to prove it. still paying some of them off six years later.....everything was always in my name.....except for his credit cards he got them when we split.....i never had them in the first place .....make it even it isn't fair no matter what amount of money you have, that you pay for everything I personally would be uncomfortable if a guy took me out and paid for everything i like to treat too that's not fair.....lol......i think going dutch is good too.....I often shout lunch to my friends if we go out.......but they always give it back..turn and turn about....you are living together so half half.....sounds fair to me....if she cant afford it it would be a different matter the mocking thing...not on ....you don't deserve to be mocked no one does.....good luck ...best wishes.....deb
Author DLM1977 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Posted October 3, 2012 In terms if the cable/net bill I will bring it up one more time and see where it goes. If she refuses ill tell her how I feel. I definitely want to have a talk with her. As far and dinners and movies go how should I handle bringing this up? Should I just slide her the check next time or when she asks where we're going out this week, should I say idk your treating this time? Going by the last conversation I know how she feels about this, she feels the man should pay always. I'm not cheap, but I don't think it's fair in today's world the man pays all the time. And by the age gap I mean her traditional ways.
River Rain Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Don't go the route of game playing. Just slipping her the check or saying "you're paying this time" will only create frustration or annoyance. Talk directly about your feelings in an honest and mature way. If she won't have a conversation with you about it, you have to make it clear that it's causing strife. If she still won't talk about it, then you have to decide if it's a deal breaker or not right?
MilitantPacifist Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 A couple things: I've dated someone who was that much older, and you should be aware, since she has a lot more life experience, by default you're going to be the sub in the relationship. Which is cool, if you're into that. Also, IRT the financial situation: I think it sounds basically even in my opinion. Look, you're making twice what she is, BUT she's paying fully half of the rent. This is not proportionate. My ex and I had an arrangement. Since she only made 70% of what I made, she contributed 70% of what I did to the bills. The last thing you want is to have the other person pay more than they can afford, and resent you, even though you're paying for the little things like Internet, dates, etc. The way it worked for us was, we had about $1500 in bills each month. Since I made 30% more, instead of paying an even $750, I paid $975 of that, and she paid the remaining $525. In this way, each of us paid a roughly equal portion of our income toward bills, proportionate to how much we made. ($525 was pretty much 1/2 of her income, and $975 was about 1/2 of mine.) The way it is now, she's actually paying, relatively speaking, more in rent than you are with the even split, because she has less to work with. You didn't specify amounts, but lets say her income is $1000 and yours is $2000, since you said she only makes half of what you do. Now say the rent is $1000 per month. You pay $500 (1/4th of your income) and she pays $500 (1/2 of her income). Proportionally, she's paying twice as much as you are. 2
2sunny Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Your actions don't match your words... Why keep providing her things if she doesn't appreciate it and it causes YOU resentment? Why haven't you moved? Why take her out at all? Turn off the cable/Internet if you don't want to pay it. I need to ask - what nationality is she?
Author DLM1977 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Posted October 3, 2012 Your actions don't match your words... Why keep providing her things if she doesn't appreciate it and it causes YOU resentment? Why haven't you moved? Why take her out at all? Turn off the cable/Internet if you don't want to pay it. I need to ask - what nationality is she? It's not that simple to just move out. I'd like to discuss things first before going that route. I'm not gonna simply give up...two I'm locked in a lease and I don't feel my issues warrant me just moving out. As far as the cable/net go, it's not about me not wanting to pay for it, it's a matter of being fair. I don't see what nationality has any sig here, but she's Italian. I do know that one of the reason her marriage failed was because her husband put himself into debt not being able to afford the responsibility on his own it became a prob and she refused to help him out.
Author DLM1977 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Posted October 3, 2012 A couple things: I've dated someone who was that much older, and you should be aware, since she has a lot more life experience, by default you're going to be the sub in the relationship. Which is cool, if you're into that. Also, IRT the financial situation: I think it sounds basically even in my opinion. Look, you're making twice what she is, BUT she's paying fully half of the rent. This is not proportionate. My ex and I had an arrangement. Since she only made 70% of what I made, she contributed 70% of what I did to the bills. The last thing you want is to have the other person pay more than they can afford, and resent you, even though you're paying for the little things like Internet, dates, etc. The way it worked for us was, we had about $1500 in bills each month. Since I made 30% more, instead of paying an even $750, I paid $975 of that, and she paid the remaining $525. In this way, each of us paid a roughly equal portion of our income toward bills, proportionate to how much we made. ($525 was pretty much 1/2 of her income, and $975 was about 1/2 of mine.) The way it is now, she's actually paying, relatively speaking, more in rent than you are with the even split, because she has less to work with. You didn't specify amounts, but lets say her income is $1000 and yours is $2000, since you said she only makes half of what you do. Now say the rent is $1000 per month. You pay $500 (1/4th of your income) and she pays $500 (1/2 of her income). Proportionally, she's paying twice as much as you are. I see your point, however you overlooked the fact she has a 18 year old daughter who lives with us. Splitting the rent in our was both what we agreed on and both thought was fair
MilitantPacifist Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I see your point, however you overlooked the fact she has a 18 year old daughter who lives with us. Splitting the rent in our was both what we agreed on and both thought was fair Ah, well, if you're paying for expenses for her daughter, the other bills other than rent, *and* groceries, in addition to dates, then yes, you're paying more than she is. What you really should do is spend a month (maybe this one, since it just started?) asking for receipts everywhere you go. Also save the bills that get paid, showing exactly what you paid and exactly what she paid. At the end of the month, tally it all up (and do the percentages like I was saying to, so you can show that you're paying way more proportionally). If, when presented with the numbers, she doesn't agree to change her habits at all, then yeah, she's selfish and using you in my opinion. 1
2sunny Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 It's not that simple to just move out. I'd like to discuss things first before going that route. I'm not gonna simply give up...two I'm locked in a lease and I don't feel my issues warrant me just moving out. As far as the cable/net go, it's not about me not wanting to pay for it, it's a matter of being fair. I don't see what nationality has any sig here, but she's Italian. I do know that one of the reason her marriage failed was because her husband put himself into debt not being able to afford the responsibility on his own it became a prob and she refused to help him out. Look - based on history - SHE'S not changing! So what are YOU willing to change? No, it's not fair! Life's not fair! Tell her daughter to pay rent and buy groceries and cook! Tell your GF to start participating more or you're leaving! And IF she doesn't DO that within a week = MOVE OUT!
FitChick Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 If the daughter is 18 she is legally an adult. She can move in with girlfriends and grow up. When you act like a doormat people wipe their feet on you. On a brighter note, it's nice to know two of you dated someone fourteen years older because I have been getting to know someone fourteen years younger. Although, by his receding hairliner and wrinkles you wouldn't know it.
2sunny Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 You can only blame yourself - because you are ALLOWING these things to happen without taking action to CHANGE everything. It's not HER fault - it's YOURS! You are responsible for what you allow. IF you don't like it - YOU are going to be the one to CHANGE it - not her.
todreaminblue Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 In terms if the cable/net bill I will bring it up one more time and see where it goes. If she refuses ill tell her how I feel. I definitely want to have a talk with her. As far and dinners and movies go how should I handle bringing this up? Should I just slide her the check next time or when she asks where we're going out this week, should I say idk your treating this time? Going by the last conversation I know how she feels about this, she feels the man should pay always. I'm not cheap, but I don't think it's fair in today's world the man pays all the time. And by the age gap I mean her traditional ways. ive never ever slid the check over to someone on an outing that to me would be rude....we actually squabble over whos paying......i win...lol...honestly when the bill comes its an automatic reach by the people including me......that to me is natural.....my friends might say ok ill pay for dinner you pay for drinks and thats before we sit down.....or we fogo halves or do it turn about one outing they pay one outing i pay and if they are broke i pay....if i am broke they pay....i would bring it up before you sit dont wait until the bill....if she scoffs at you.....say well ii have paid many times i think it would be nice if you did offer or contribute sometimes...its an awkward situation to deal with .......good luck hope it works out....deb.
yongyong Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 You seem like a nice guy (typical Beta) Usually they have to do those things to make themselves feel better. You can still do the same thing only if you get someone younger. Get someone younger like 6 years old. (20 years younger than her) She can be a stay home housewife and this is nothing wrong. Why would you want to pay for some wrinkly women who's 14 years older than you? Did you tell your friends you are living with such old woman? what they say? 'oh does she have money? is she paying for everything?'
MilitantPacifist Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 You seem like a nice guy (typical Beta) Usually they have to do those things to make themselves feel better Wow, extreme hating on the Betas. Maybe it's okay to have a slightly calmer personality and secure enough in your masculinity that you don't have to go around beating everyone over the head with it? Just saying man. Nothing wrong with being a Beta sometimes.
Author DLM1977 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Posted October 4, 2012 You can only blame yourself - because you are ALLOWING these things to happen without taking action to CHANGE everything. It's not HER fault - it's YOURS! You are responsible for what you allow. IF you don't like it - YOU are going to be the one to CHANGE it - not her. Good point, but I disagree. Two wrongs don't make a right. I can change sit or allow it to continue.
Author DLM1977 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Posted October 4, 2012 You seem like a nice guy (typical Beta) Usually they have to do those things to make themselves feel better. You can still do the same thing only if you get someone younger. Get someone younger like 6 years old. (20 years younger than her) She can be a stay home housewife and this is nothing wrong. Why would you want to pay for some wrinkly women who's 14 years older than you? Did you tell your friends you are living with such old woman? what they say? 'oh does she have money? is she paying for everything?' Wow, you clearly have no clue in life but thanks for the advice none the less
yongyong Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Obviously you are way older than me. So what do you know about life? Being 'NICE' enough to let someone to take advantage of you and not having balls to talk about? Maybe I can't judge your situation just by reading few paragraphs. But the fact is you are living with 14 years older woman. you are paying for her and you don't like it. Wow, you clearly have no clue in life but thanks for the advice none the less
Emilia Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 I don't see what nationality has any sig here, but she's Italian. . I think Italian women are not known for enjoying financial independence, especially older generation. You might be incompatible.
mtber75 Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Wow, extreme hating on the Betas. Maybe it's okay to have a slightly calmer personality and secure enough in your masculinity that you don't have to go around beating everyone over the head with it? Just saying man. Nothing wrong with being a Beta sometimes. This is so true! I have friends and cousins who are BETAs and they seem to be OK with it...Going along with their wives on EVERYTHING!
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