Men Forced to Marry

[Mme. Chaucer]

That above comment stood out like a sore thumb and I thought wtf!

 

You equate abuse being caused by pressure to marry?

 

Damn! Excuse me while I go .

 

Did you also catch the comparison of marriage to rape - or of succumbing to "pressure" to marry to being raped?

 

I think we have an actual sicko on our hands here.

[LadyGrey]

Did you also catch the comparison of marriage to rape - or of succumbing to "pressure" to marry to being raped?

 

I think we have an actual sicko on our hands here.

 

Agree............we crossed posted. It's hard to believe how anyone could have such twisted thinking.

[MilitantPacifist]

Another who forced her husband to marry by forcing him to shockingly propose on Valentine's Day, 6 weeks+ after our first date. Worse yet, magically made my patch birth control not work so I could become pregnant while engaged. These magical abilities forced him to the altar. He didn't stand a chance against my coercive wizardry.

 

I really hope this is sarcasm.

 

Otherwise I'm going to have to petition admins to add a "Dislike" button just for this post.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I really hope this is sarcasm.

 

Otherwise I'm going to have to petition admins to add a "Dislike" button just for this post.

 

Of COURSE she's being sarcastic.

 

Some of us happily married men and women are poking fun at this silly thread.

[strongnrelaxed]

They're great! Especially cool that my husband found The General, our barn cat that had disappeared, hunting down by the blackberry patch last week. That made us happy.

 

And how about you? How's that "sugarbaby" thing working out for you?

 

Great. Thanks. Yes, my sugarbaby is ok. Problem is that she wants a ring. Tsk tsk tsk.

[strongnrelaxed]

I really hope this is sarcasm.

 

Otherwise I'm going to have to petition admins to add a "Dislike" button just for this post.

 

Sarcasm indeed. It is the stock and trade of those who cannot tell the difference between and analogy and a comparison.

[strongnrelaxed]

Of COURSE she's being sarcastic.

 

Some of us happily married men and women are poking fun at this silly thread.

 

A note to the serious posters here of both genders: You might not know that MMEC sort of lurks around and make bizarre or sarcastic comments when the post is not to her liking.

 

Your responses are not silly and I appreciate your honesty. Please do not let comments like this dissuade you from commenting.

[threebyfate]

Of COURSE she's being sarcastic.

 

Some of us happily married men and women are poking fun at this silly thread.

I done hog tied him with zips and duct tape. Then I done hooked him up t'the back of ma pickup truck and dragged him t'the altar. He was a might dusty but was right as rain after we hosed him down with some water.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I done hog tied him with zips and duct tape. Then I done hooked him up t'the back of ma pickup truck and dragged him t'the altar. He was a might dusty but was right as rain after we hosed him down with some water.

 

Fie on you! In the name of all that is just and fair, let some man direct him to this thread so he can partake of the wisdom imparted here! By all that is holy, SAVE THIS MAN!!!!

[Mme. Chaucer]

Great. Thanks. Yes, my sugarbaby is ok. Problem is that she wants a ring. Tsk tsk tsk.

 

I'm sure she just wants a pretty gift, and not an engagement ring. If you can afford it, why not? I assure you that no woman who is even semi-coscious would want to marry you, especially not a cute young one. You are safe forever. Go in peace.

[Anela]

A note to the serious posters here of both genders: You might not know that MMEC sort of lurks around and make bizarre or sarcastic comments when the post is not to her liking.

 

Your responses are not silly and I appreciate your honesty. Please do not let comments like this dissuade you from commenting.

 

It's the way you titled your thread: for me, I wondered how many men actually had a gun to their head, and a ventriloquist's hand up their behinds, saying, "I do" for them, and putting the ring on the finger of their new wife.

 

I know that in some places, people of BOTH genders end up in arranged marriages - that has been mentioned by at least one guy here, as a preferred arrangement for them, a girl being forced to date and marry them, instead of being allowed to choose for herself, who she would like to spend the rest of her life with.

[Anela]

I done hog tied him with zips and duct tape. Then I done hooked him up t'the back of ma pickup truck and dragged him t'the altar. He was a might dusty but was right as rain after we hosed him down with some water.

 

:lmao:

[strongnrelaxed]

I'm sure she just wants a pretty gift, and not an engagement ring. If you can afford it, why not? I assure you that no woman who is even semi-coscious would want to marry you, especially not a cute young one. You are safe forever. Go in peace.

 

I wish you could know or meet me in real life Chaucer.

 

I think that first, you might be surprised because I am not at all what I think you think I am. Second, you would be outraged and shocked at the sorts of attention I get from women of all ages - forget online, I mean in real live life walking around.

 

You would truly hate me and lose faith in women. I promise you.

 

This female attention has been so overwhelming this past year, in fact, that I myself have been pleasantly surprised by this. And I am getting old! Funny thing is, I want nothing to do with most women I meet.

 

You have no idea.

[strongnrelaxed]

It's the way you titled your thread: for me, I wondered how many men actually had a gun to their head, and a ventriloquist's hand up their behinds, saying, "I do" for them, and putting the ring on the finger of their new wife.

 

I know that in some places, people of BOTH genders end up in arranged marriages - that has been mentioned by at least one guy here, as a preferred arrangement for them, a girl being forced to date and marry them, instead of being allowed to choose for herself, who she would like to spend the rest of her life with.

 

One of my former students was just forced into an arranged marriage (overseas). In my view this is rape with the parent's consent. I find it horrific.

 

Yes. Marriages are forced. Many men are pressured into marriage. I am trying to tease out how pervasive. That is all.

[threebyfate]

One of my former students was just forced into an arranged marriage (overseas). In my view this is rape with the parent's consent. I find it horrific.

 

Yes. Marriages are forced. Many men are pressured into marriage. I am trying to tease out how pervasive. That is all.

You live in the U.S., purportedly New York. No one can force anyone to marry.

[Pyro]

One of my former students was just forced into an arranged marriage (overseas). In my view this is rape with the parent's consent. I find it horrific.

 

Yes. Marriages are forced. Many men are pressured into marriage. I am trying to tease out how pervasive. That is all.

 

Of course. One person (your student) was forced into it, so therefore all marriages are forced.

[strongnrelaxed]

Of course. One person (your student) was forced into it, so therefore all marriages are forced.

 

That's it? Pyro, you are better than this. Come on man, I mean please. You can do much better.

 

It was late and I will forgive you this one. I have botched many posts due to frustration or fatigue, but I clearly never said this.

 

I am simply pointing to an example. A horrible and egregious example of how some humans (way too many in my book) are forced into marriage - literally. Not to mention the ones who are not forced, but pressured. And I would argue that the vast majority of people are pressured to marry. Not fall in love or become united or be friends, but get married. Marriage is NOT a natural thing. It is a religious ceremony and a state contract.

 

Call me crazy, but love deserves more respect than it is given by the government and the many religions that require it. I would not be surprised if you disagree. But I am standing firm on this.

 

My main question still stands.

[Daniel V. Ross]

On this kind of situation, relationship might not work. In getting married, it must be both wills and no one is being forced to do it.

[Mme. Chaucer]

OP, have you ever been diagnosed with narcissism? It's mind boggling how apparently you truly believe that your opinions and perceptions of everything and everyone are absolute.

[Pirouette]

What you describes is most certainly a form of pressure. Sure, it is less pressure than the worst cases, but crying and bringing it up more than once is pressure. When my son asks me 15 times for a piece of candy, it drives me nuts. What is is trying to do is to ask me over and over in an attempt to wear me down - or in the hopes that I will randomly change my mind. Either way, it is a pressure tactic.

How can you compare two people discussing the future of their relationship to your son asking you for a piece of candy?

 

The relationship, the issue, the power imbalance is completely different.

 

Just because YOU don't think it is pressure does not mean HE doesn't. This is the whole point of this thread.

You only see marriage as some prize that the man wields control over and rewards to the woman, like a piece of candy being bestowed to a child.

 

My big question is why you would ever ask him to do this to begin with? You seemed happy before all of this marriage crap. Why did you ruin that? I am being serious and mean no disrespect. This is a very important question because your story plays out millions of times a year in the US (According to the CDC - ironically this is the center for DISEASE control).

Many people see marriage as the ultimate commitment between two people and the ideal way to progress into a family. If a person feels this way about marriage, and as a relationship grows, one has every right to communicate their desires for the future. The other partner has every right to communicate their feelings on the subject as well. If there is a disconnect there, it needs to be dealt with. One person can't unilaterally decide what is good for the relationship and ignore the desires of the other party, like a parent with a child.

 

I am holding back my anger. So many women are so self righteous about THEIR desire to get married. The emotional pressures they put on men are abusive and irresponsible. And to call this out gets only ridicule and attacks.

Women and men have a right to their desires as long as they are not harmful to others. Even when you compared it to your son asking for candy, that is hardly harmful. If another adult is asking you about something you disagree with, you are free to walk away. So unless someone is threatening you with bodily harm, I don't see how it is abusive or irresponsible.

 

Imagine if you were to complain about rape and a bunch of men chastised you for DARING to speak ill of rape. Imagine how bizarre that would be.

I hope you do realize how ridiculous this comparison is. Asking about marriage is not like rape, or murder, or abuse, or any other crime.

 

A better example off the top of my head would be someone asking you for a donation for a cause that they clearly believe in, you giving it, and then denouncing the cause afterwards. People would indeed think that you were bizarre.

 

That is how this looks to me when a man challenges marriage and women attack the man. It is bizarre indeed.

Increasingly, men and women alike are moving away from marriage. We all have the right to an opinion. What is bizarre is if you were clearly against marriage, but did it anyway. You have freewill. Edited October 10, 2012 by Pirouette

[strongnrelaxed]

OP, have you ever been diagnosed with narcissism? It's mind boggling how apparently you truly believe that your opinions and perceptions of everything and everyone are absolute.

 

Not true. But it is about the time when the flying saucers start hovering over your house. You might want to gather up your many cats and hide in the basement. They're coming for you.

 

Oh, and say hi to bigfoot for me.

[strongnrelaxed]

How can you compare two people discussing the future of their relationship to your son asking you for a piece of candy?

 

The relationship, the issue, the power imbalance is completely different.

 

You only see marriage as some prize that the man wields control over and rewards to the woman, like a piece of candy being bestowed to a child.

 

Many people see marriage as the ultimate commitment between two people and the ideal way to progress into a family. If a person feels this way about marriage, and as a relationship grows, one has every right to communicate their desires for the future. The other partner has every right to communicate their feelings on the subject as well. If there is a disconnect there, it needs to be dealt with. One person can't unilaterally decide what is good for the relationship and ignore the desires of the other party, like a parent with a child.

 

Women and men have a right to their desires as long as they are not harmful to others. Even when you compared it to your son asking for candy, that is hardly harmful. If another adult is asking you about something you disagree with, you are free to walk away. So unless someone is threatening you with bodily harm, I don't see how it is abusive or irresponsible.

 

I hope you do realize how ridiculous this comparison is. Asking about marriage is not like rape, or murder, or abuse, or any other crime.

 

A better example off the top of my head would be someone asking you for a donation for a cause that they clearly believe in, you giving it, and then denouncing the cause afterwards. People would indeed think that you were bizarre.

 

Increasingly, men and women alike are moving away from marriage. We all have the right to an opinion. What is bizarre is if you were clearly against marriage, but did it anyway. You have freewill.

 

So much to say here.

 

1. I am not equating a discussion about marriage to candy. I am equating the one manipulative pressure tactic to another. My comments are not for those who do not experience it. It is for those men who do experience it and are not comfortable speaking up. That is my job. They can just sit back and read.

 

2. Marriage is NOT a prize! The whole point is that it is a trap for men and women. We should not be doing this. It is wrong on many many levels. I am just doing my part to point this out. You cannot say I did not warn you. I mean I am really going overboard and being as dramatic as I can -almost straining myself to make this point clear. Remember my words. You will do the right thing when and if this becomes salient to you. I trust that you too will spread the word. You will know what to say and when to say it. Don't respond now, just hold onto this.

 

3. We are on the same page with the marriage negotiation thing. But just like child whines over and over again, and parent's say "no" - so too do many women joke, cajole, pressure, nag and give outright ultimatums to men regarding marriage or LTR commitments. This is almost how it is done by default for christstake! It is a cultural norm and you are denying this? We obviously live in different worlds. I know - NAWALT - but this is so well understood that I am surprised that anyone would even argue it. Way too many women push men to get married period in my personal opinion (and I know I am not alone). How about that? Let's move on.

 

4. My analogy about rape was to highlight how bizarre it would be for someone to be shut down for pointing out an obvious atrocity. Rape and marriage are clearly not the same. I even used the word "imagine" so it would be simple and clear. This is emotional for you, I understand that. But to try to equate the two and make the analogy literate is a bit creepy to me. My friendly advice to you is to not do that publicly any more. If you disagree with the analogy, say so. But what you did was not cool.

 

And finally, you may THINK you have freewill. But you do not. Who told you this? How much free will do you have? How do you measure or prove this? Is this something you believe from the bible or from people who told you?

 

You will have to do a LOT of reading and research on this, so I will save you some effort. You do not have free will. Not really. Not in any way that might make sense to a reasonable person.

 

None of us do.

 

And we have less and less over time.

 

Remember my words. Reflect on this. Look up somatic markers. Look up framing effects. One could write a book on this.

[Got it]

I don't understand the continuing angst over this. If you do not like marriage, than don't marry. Why the heartburn? Does the social construct of marriage have some issues? Sure. I believe that once people start looking at it like any business decision, the decision to marry will be based on more than just emotion and will allow the persons to make the best decision for their lives.

 

But people change, people are fluid, one has to accept that gamble and understand it may not work out than expect static and get upset when it doesn't happen. By understanding the above premise, one can make sure they go into it on an even page, protecting their interests as well as finding a happy medium.

 

Also, cajoling, pressuring, etc. only works when you are open to it. The only major threat one can make to push someone to marriage is they will break up with you if you don't marry them. If you understand that gamble, if you know that you don't want to marry, then you will make sure to date and communicate in that vein and be okay with the fact the person may leave because their desires have changed, come to the forefront, etc.

 

Unlike a child in which you are tied to for 18 years and to whom you sensibly cannot get away from, a romantic partner can be terminated with more ease than a minor child's relationship with the parenting. And just like a child, persuasion only works when you show you are open to it.

[Pirouette]

1. I am not equating a discussion about marriage to candy. I am equating the one manipulative pressure tactic to another. My comments are not for those who do not experience it. It is for those men who do experience it and are not comfortable speaking up. That is my job. They can just sit back and read.

 

Then you should see that your analogies are doing you no favours in your arguments. If you complained to someone how your child was constantly committing the atrocity of abusing you about candy, you'd hardly get any sympathy. Just like you aren't getting much sympathy here.

 

2. Marriage is NOT a prize! The whole point is that it is a trap for men and women. We should not be doing this. It is wrong on many many levels. I am just doing my part to point this out. You cannot say I did not warn you. I mean I am really going overboard and being as dramatic as I can -almost straining myself to make this point clear.

 

I am perfectly fine with you holding this view. In fact, I don't much care for marriage either, but actually being as over dramatic as you are makes you seem like the vagrant on the corner prophesying that god will smite thee in 2012. How's that for an analogy?

 

3. We are on the same page with the marriage negotiation thing. But just like child whines over and over again, and parent's say "no" - so too do many women joke, cajole, pressure, nag and give outright ultimatums to men regarding marriage or LTR commitments. This is almost how it is done by default for christstake! It is a cultural norm and you are denying this? We obviously live in different worlds. I know - NAWALT - but this is so well understood that I am surprised that anyone would even argue it. Way too many women push men to get married period in my personal opinion (and I know I am not alone). How about that? Let's move on.

 

Sure, this is a bit of a stereotypical situation you see on TV, and stereotypes often do play out a lot. The point everyone is making is that someone asking about marriage, joking about it, talking about it, making ultimatums is not considered that big a deal. If two people have such mismatched goals, the relationship is doomed anyway and should end. You are attacking the symptom, not the cause. Better time would be spent counseling people why marriage is wrong, or else advising the dissenting party to just terminate the relationship.

 

4. My analogy about rape was to highlight how bizarre it would be for someone to be shut down for pointing out an obvious atrocity. Rape and marriage are clearly not the same. I even used the word "imagine" so it would be simple and clear. This is emotional for you, I understand that. But to try to equate the two and make the analogy literate is a bit creepy to me. My friendly advice to you is to not do that publicly any more. If you disagree with the analogy, say so. But what you did was not cool.

 

Clearly, you misunderstand. I'm not arguing anything from an emotional standpoint. This is all about the semantics. Your attempt to illustrate marriage nagging as an atrocity fell extremely flat. Imagine if I said security checking my bags before a entering a stadium is like Mandela's incarceration.

 

I'd ask how what I did was creepy and not cool bro, but I don't think I'd understand the explanation, so I'll refrain.

 

And finally, you may THINK you have freewill...

 

So you're saying life is one big atrocity.

[xxoo]

I am holding back my anger. So many women are so self righteous about THEIR desire to get married. The emotional pressures they put on men are abusive and irresponsible. And to call this out gets only ridicule and attacks.

 

So break up with the woman. Seriously.

 

The problem is that men do not want to marry, but don't want the woman to know that....because she will leave him. And rightly so, because she wants to be married. If she knows you don't want to marry, or don't want to marry her, and you've had sufficient time to know if you do or do not want to marry her, she will move on.

 

Honesty is all that is needed. No need to feel pressured. Be honest, and the "problem" will go away.