Infidelity and custody of children

[frozensprouts]

while it shouldn't be the only factor in determining custody, it should be a consideration.

 

Having an affair puts a child at risk, because it has the potential to harm the family unit ( as a child of a parent who had an affair...many will tell you it had an negative effect on their life) beyond simply divorcing. This harm doesn't always happen, but having an affair certainly opens the door to it's occurrence...

 

I think it's pretty naive to think that an affair will have zero negative effect on a the children of wayward spouse, and that a parent would take the risk of hurting their child in this way should be considered...it's not the only factor, but in certainly is a factor

[Silly_Girl]

I've seen 'parent-grading' in action and I think it does the kids no good at all. For a start it's easy for the 'good' parent to feel justified in being disparaging about the 'bad' parent and that's a breeding ground for all sorts of issues.. for the children to have to contend with.

 

Loads of parents do stuff wrong. And right. If infidelity were a factor I think many other things should be taken in to account, such as what they feed the children, whether they smoke/drink heavily, who they come in to contact with via the parent, approach to discipline, etc etc. The list is a very long one.

[standtall]

It's amazing how most of the posters in this thread are missing the most important point. The posters here are stating what the parents deserve and who is the most fit...the question should be what is in the best interests of the children.

[Michael Johnson]

Custody arrangements in the US has always been in favor of women, and the fat lazy judges do not care if the wife cheated or not. Almost always the "mom" gets custody and the man gets shafted financially. I am of the stance that BSs, particularly BHs should receive full custody, no exceptions but it'll be hell over earth before that becomes common.

[frozensprouts]

while it shouldn't be the only factor in determining custody, it should be a consideration.

 

Having an affair puts a child at risk, because it has the potential to harm the family unit ( as a child of a parent who had an affair...many will tell you it had an negative effect on their life) beyond simply divorcing. This harm doesn't always happen, but having an affair certainly opens the door to it's occurrence...

 

I think it's pretty naive to think that an affair will have zero negative effect on a the children of wayward spouse, and that a parent would take the risk of hurting their child in this way should be considered...it's not the only factor, but in certainly is a factor

 

typo...that should say "ask" not "as"...sorry:eek:

[amaysngrace]

It's amazing how most of the posters in this thread are missing the most important point. The posters here are stating what the parents deserve and who is the most fit...the question should be what is in the best interests of the children.

 

I agree. Love and consistency are key and I would think the parent who strays would be less likely to exhibit these characteristics.

[UpwardForward]

It's amazing how most of the posters in this thread are missing the most important point. The posters here are stating what the parents deserve and who is the most fit...the question should be what is in the best interests of the children.

 

Children are the innocents and are put in the middle. The court seems to keep them there as well.

 

IMO, the best thing is for the parents together to work toward what is best for the children. Thus hopefully keeping the children less traumatized.

[amaysngrace]

Children are the innocents and are put in the middle. The court seems to keep them there as well.

 

IMO, the best thing is for the parents together to work toward what is best for the children. Thus hopefully keeping the children less traumatized.

 

I agree with you. Unfortunately some parents hate their spouse more than they love their children.

 

And again, with all things being equal otherwise, I'd say that the one who strays would be less likely to put the needs of their children first.

[Summer Breeze]

If a BS takes the WS back and tries to reconcile but fails. What happens then? The WS cheated but by taking them back the BS is bringing them back into the family fold. Does this mean they would get 50% custody or does the BS get full custody still? My thoughts are if the WS has been kept in the family then there's no turning it around at a later date and saying they're not a good enough parent.

[AnotherRound]

If a BS takes the WS back and tries to reconcile but fails. What happens then? The WS cheated but by taking them back the BS is bringing them back into the family fold. Does this mean they would get 50% custody or does the BS get full custody still? My thoughts are if the WS has been kept in the family then there's no turning it around at a later date and saying they're not a good enough parent.

 

Good point! I hadn't considered that angle. I just think it would be somewhat silly, and messy, to just have a standard list of things that make someone a "bad" parent. Obviously, there are ALWAYS exceptions to any rule, so this would seem too simplistic for me. And, who would get to decide? I mean, obviously, there are different moral codes and beliefs (religions quickly come to mind here) and how would all those work in to this "list"?

 

And earlier, someone said there would have to be "proof" that one parent is "good" and one parent is "bad". I don't even know how that would be proven - with so many possible situations, how would that even work? I don't consider someone to automatically be a "bad" parent bc they cheated, or even if they do drugs recreationally when their children are not around - I'm sure others would. Who gets to make that call? Agh, the thought of policing morality ALWAYS makes me uncomfortable bc to me, it seems like we are being led to a theocracy - and that is NOT what America (at least) is about.

 

I think a case by case basis is the only way to do it as fairly as possible. I can't even imagine trying to do it with a "commandment" list of bad parenting characteristics.

[Summer Breeze]

Good point! I hadn't considered that angle. I just think it would be somewhat silly, and messy, to just have a standard list of things that make someone a "bad" parent. Obviously, there are ALWAYS exceptions to any rule, so this would seem too simplistic for me. And, who would get to decide? I mean, obviously, there are different moral codes and beliefs (religions quickly come to mind here) and how would all those work in to this "list"?

 

And earlier, someone said there would have to be "proof" that one parent is "good" and one parent is "bad". I don't even know how that would be proven - with so many possible situations, how would that even work? I don't consider someone to automatically be a "bad" parent bc they cheated, or even if they do drugs recreationally when their children are not around - I'm sure others would. Who gets to make that call? Agh, the thought of policing morality ALWAYS makes me uncomfortable bc to me, it seems like we are being led to a theocracy - and that is NOT what America (at least) is about.

 

I think a case by case basis is the only way to do it as fairly as possible. I can't even imagine trying to do it with a "commandment" list of bad parenting characteristics.

 

 

I never thought my xHs parenting wasn't good till after we separated. He went from being a doting and loving dad to our D to being almost nonexistent. I also see that said by other BS as well. Quite often the comment is made that the WS is a great parent.

 

I think you're so right. There would be no way to quantify what is a good/bad parent and there really is no way to prove one is good or the other bad. Far too subjective.

 

To take it even further OP. What if both parents cheat? You mention to just kind of let it go cause one is just as bad as the other. If someone is a bad parent and can't have custody of their child then the logic follows that if both parents cheat then neither should have custody of the kids.

 

Interesting thread.

[Spark1111]

If a BS takes the WS back and tries to reconcile but fails. What happens then? The WS cheated but by taking them back the BS is bringing them back into the family fold. Does this mean they would get 50% custody or does the BS get full custody still? My thoughts are if the WS has been kept in the family then there's no turning it around at a later date and saying they're not a good enough parent.

 

Most children will be awarded to the mother barring any serious neglect or substance abuse that can be proven, whether she is the WS or the BS.

 

The court, like children, could give one whit about the romantic peccadillos of the parents.

 

Fair? Probably not is many instances, but that is why most states have gone no-fault in the US because divorce cases were dragging on for years with each litigant incurring 40k in legal costs.

 

Kids were in the middle of these litigious scenarios.

 

The most recent studies point to acrimony: It is not how happily married or divorced you are that affects children...it is the degree of acrimony present in the relaionship between the parents.

 

So, whether married or divorced, the greatest gift you can give your children is to treat their parent with kindness and respect, no matter what you may feel personally.

 

And if you do not or can't after divorce, child advocates are pushing "parental alienation" laws through family courts today to protect kids.

 

In other words, if you continuously bad mouth, denigrate, and disparage your x in front of them, that is today considered a form of abuse and you WILL lose custody of that child.

 

So, everyone has to act like ADULTS around the children at all times, in case they forget.

[Summer Breeze]

Most children will be awarded to the mother barring any serious neglect or substance abuse that can be proven, whether she is the WS or the BS.

 

The court, like children, could give one whit about the romantic peccadillos of the parents.

 

Fair? Probably not is many instances, but that is why most states have gone no-fault in the US because divorce cases were dragging on for years with each litigant incurring 40k in legal costs.

 

Kids were in the middle of these litigious scenarios.

 

The most recent studies point to acrimony: It is not how happily married or divorced you are that affects children...it is the degree of acrimony present in the relaionship between the parents.

 

So, whether married or divorced, the greatest gift you can give your children is to treat their parent with kindness and respect, no matter what you may feel personally.

 

And if you do not or can't after divorce, child advocates are pushing "parental alienation" laws through family courts today to protect kids.

 

In other words, if you continuously bad mouth, denigrate, and disparage your x in front of them, that is today considered a form of abuse and you WILL lose custody of that child.

 

So, everyone has to act like ADULTS around the children at all times, in case they forget.

 

Couldn't agree more Spark. The comments I made were pretty much hypothetical working from OPs original comments.

[Spark1111]

I don't think it's possible to be a good parent while cheating. Not only are you harming he person you should teach your children to respect above all others, not only are you modeling bad morals, not only are you statiscally making them more likely to be cheated on or cheat, but really the energy it takes to keep up the deception automatically means you aren't emotionally present for your kids.

 

Sure that might be the lesser of 2 evils, rarely. But I think it's pretty bad. I did not say H was a bad parent because I hated him (though I have hated him at times). I say it because I saw him fall to that level during the affair and aftermath. If we had divorced I would have used that to any extent possible. If we end up breaking up I still think its relevant. He was capable of neglecting them in ways I wasn't. I'm not perfect. I have had a darned lot of help because I often needed to cry and be alone and extended family have been there so the kids didn't see that. But I've been way more focused on them than H was until recently. Andhe knows this too. He is appalled by what he did to them as well as me. It doesn't absolve him but it is important.

 

During my H's affair he resented me, the kids, his extended family....anything that kept him apart from his OW and her child where he could be Superman and convince her of what a wonderful father he was.

 

He wasn't, and the kids felt his unahppiness with me and them acutely during that time but we didn't know why. Very sad.

 

After dday, we all asked him why he didn't tell the truth of his feelings for her and separate from me, us; it would've been kinder and HONEST, and he would have maintained his integrity in the eyes of his children instead of lying and sneaking around.

 

But no, he wanted both and made some terrible choices which he will live with for the rest of his life.

 

How anyone, who claims to love someone, could allow them to make such horrible choices....for love...just boggles my mind. It is so selfish, IMHO, especially when you think of the affects of affairs on children.

[Decorative]

During what I know now was our false recovery, my then 7 year old son actually wrapped his arms around my spouse's legs, crying and asking him to stay and play with him. My spouse reached down, unwrapped our baby's arms from his legs, and stepped out the door to go meet his OW.

 

It was horrible . And it's something he will have to live with forever. Actually, both of them will.

 

But a parent who engages in an affair is not a good parent during that time, because they are prioritizing incorrectly. And harming people who have no say in the matter.

[Decorative]

I'm sorry spark I think teaching kids to respect an unrepentant cheater is far far more damaging to them in the long run. Being an adult around them includes no modeling of heinous behavior. Addiction. Abuse. Cheating. All count in my book. I wouldn't want my kids in the custody of an alcoholic. Nor an unrepentant cheating spouse. And that IS with their best interests at heart. It's precisely because they will love unconditionally that it's dangerous. I swear the OW in our lives was led to think cheating was ok because her mother encouraged her relationship with her cheating father. She never saw her mothers pain so she never empathized with it. Hence she inflicted it on others (h was not her first affair).

 

Agreed. The OW in our sitch is the daughter of a longterm former OW, and my spouse was not her first rodeo. In fact, she "cheated " on my spouse with another MM.

[amaysngrace]

Agreed. The OW in our sitch is the daughter of a longterm former OW, and my spouse was not her first rodeo. In fact, she "cheated " on my spouse with another MM.

 

Dysfunction breeds dysfunction.

[AnotherRound]

Hmmm... I think that children should have NO idea what their parents are doing sexually, period. Why would a child know this about their parents? That they are having an affair? To me, that would be adult matters, and extremely inappropriate to drag a child of ANY age into that, as it is not about them. Children's parents have lives apart from their children - erotic, sexual, and emotional lives that the children are not, and should not be, privy too. There are clear boundaries in that, appropriate healthy boundaries. Anyone crossing those, and filling a child in on anything so adult, is emotionally abusing that child by placing adult issues on their shoulders when they are not even physically psychologically able to process it or understand it or "deal" with it. Why would anyone do that? Why would any child need to know what their parent is doing in that manner?

 

My exMM's child had NO idea that exMM was seeing someone else - until stbxw made comments in front of him. To me, that is damaging. The child did not understand what his mother was talking about, and exMM (thankfully) refused to discuss it in front of the child. Of course then, stbxw didn't want to discuss it when the child wasn't present, as she was using their child as her buffer - extremely inappropriate and extremely damaging to the child. Imo, that is "bad" parenting - far worse than her husband cheating and not filling the child in on that info or the details.

 

I also think it's worse for a child to be in a home where the parents aren't modeling a good relationship. If someone is going to say that a parent having an affair is a "bad" parent, then I would have to counter with, a parent not participating in a loving and giving relationship as a model for their child is a "bad" parent. If one parent does the other first, and then the other parent "cheats"... imo, the other parent is "more" responsible for not leaving when they decided to not participate in the relationship any longer. Whatever comes after that (ie "cheating") is secondary to the first "bad parent" move, imo.

 

My exMM never took time away from his child for me. His child was none the wiser until stbxw dragged the child into it. That was on her - not on me or on exMM. She attempted to use her child for leverage, for guilt, for power in a relationship that she had not wanted for years. Ugh. We didn't take exMMs child on outings, or flaunt our relationship to the child, or flaunt it in general so that the child would hear about it at school or wherever. We were discreet, and exMM always spent as much time as possible (I was not a deterrant in any way) with his child - and still does. Our schedules synched up in a way that the time we were together, his child was sleeping, or had other plans (sports, activities, etc.), at school, or whatever. It was never taking time away from his child - just time away from his stbxw.

 

I find it interesting that so many are stating here that children should know about their parent's sexual and intimate lives - that is so enmeshed, and so unhealthy. Unless the child is an adult, and even then, I would find it odd to share that kind of information with a child - as it puts them in a very awkward position. And honestly, I can see no reason for telling them things of this nature than to possibly attempt to turn them against one parent, or use them as a buffer or a pawn in some type of struggle. What would be a good reason to tell a child that has NO idea about this part of his/her parent's lives? I honestly can't think of a single one that wouldn't be an example of "bad" parenting, or unhealthy enmeshment... ????

[Decorative]

Under guidance of professional help, we told our children, in age appropriate explanations, what was wrong.

 

It relieved them of the burden of thinking they did something wrong, and allowed us to heal.

 

I disagree with some of Dr. Harley's guides to recovering marriages, and his personal politics, (lol), but on Marriage Builders, he explains quite methodically why disclosure of the affair to the children on the marriage is critical, and it coincided exactly with the advice we were being given.

 

I have read too many stories of family rugsweeping and generational dysfunction in the aftermath of affairs. I have fought like a wildcat to make sure that my husband's poor choices don't impose lifelong consequences on our children.

[Minnie09]

Over-sharing the parents' sex lives is certainly inappropriate, but like everybody else, kids like adults, have a right to the truth, whether it's about parents or not. Doesn't matter. If dad cheats and there are multiple d-days, or he has some form of an addiction, or other problems that break up the kids' happy home, they should know why. Sure, you have to give them some kind of an age-appropriate explanation. You don't have to tell a 4-year old that mommy had a porn addiction and a long-penis-fetish, but just telling them we broke up because we didn't work out, or we aren't a good match and we simply no longer love each other, would be a lie in many cases. They don't deserve to be lied to. They need to know that bad behavior has consequences and they will learn that's it's not ok to put up with everything. Sooner or later they'll find out anyways. I think it's totally fine to tell them that it's not ok to have a girlfriend on the side while married to somebody else. Or to lie to the people you are supposed to treat with respect. Period.*

[Decorative]

Exactly , Minnie.

[frozensprouts]

Under guidance of professional help, we told our children, in age appropriate explanations, what was wrong.

 

It relieved them of the burden of thinking they did something wrong, and allowed us to heal.

 

I disagree with some of Dr. Harley's guides to recovering marriages, and his personal politics, (lol), but on Marriage Builders, he explains quite methodically why disclosure of the affair to the children on the marriage is critical, and it coincided exactly with the advice we were being given.

 

I have read too many stories of family rugsweeping and generational dysfunction in the aftermath of affairs. I have fought like a wildcat to make sure that my husband's poor choices don't impose lifelong consequences on our children.

 

honestly, the idea that children can be shielded from the actions of a parent(s) is nice, but often not realistic...

 

I have read ( and experienced) on here how many wayward spouses chnage their parenting behavior during an affair. Many act poorly towards their children, are short tempered, angry, pre-occupied or just plain not around. I know that many other men/women are told differently, but it can and does happen.

The children are affected not so much because they were told "mommy/daddy is having an affair", but by the by products of the affair its self. The betrayed spouse is expected to hold everything together , push down their emotions and keep the family chuggin' along while the wayward spouse is out trying to have "their needs met" somewhere else...( I think this really is a situation where if you haven't experienced it first hand, either as the betrayed spouse or child,, you don't know what it's like)...

 

Does this mean the wayward spouse is not fit to be a custodial parent? Maybe, maybe not...but it should be part of the equation.

[Got it]

I appreciate that my father never told us about our mom's affair until they were divorced and we were well into our adult years. While it was the drop in the bucket to their other issues, I appreciate that one not being trotted out as a slam against one from the other.

 

I appreciate the humility and sacrifice my dad took not throwing that out in a fight around us, or telling us what she did as why he was better.

 

Unfortunately this wasn't a stance they took in all areas and I do not respect them for those actions. But to find out after the fact what one of the issues was from the very beginning years, yeah it was a kudo for my dad. And I saw it is another example on why they should have divorced so much earlier than they did. They both made mistakes and they both caused emotional harm on the kids with the constant fighting and anger/unhappiness. It is sad that they stayed unhappy for decades "because of the kids" (as that gem was trotted out by both in the past and present). As the kid, knowing they are staying miserable because of you, well, sucks.

 

In regards to divorce, my father says he didn't divorce because of the laws not working in his favor. But, in all honesty, he would not have been the appropriate parent to have primary custody. Even though she did cheat, he is emotionally distant, worked/commuted most of the day, and did not have the patience for us as children (he has adapted/thrived much better once we became adults).

 

So it would be nice to say that it would be black and white like that but in some cases, that shouldn't be the only factor. My dad would have seemed the "good" parent as there was no abuse or anything but with the other factors, his anger issues, etc. we would have been pretty unhappy living with him. As minors my mom was the best individual to raise us. As adults my dad is the best one to counsel us. Their strengths and weaknesses have played out like that.

 

But number one, being respectful of the other parent, and getting along amicably is the KEY for your children's happiness. For my parents, they have divorced amicably and are so much better divorced. It has been fabulous! Everyone gets along better, we do holidays together still, etc and there is less fighting, tension, etc. I am in awe and so appreciative for how they have handled this stage of their lives. They look out for each other, will take care of each other in different areas, because they know it is the best interest of their children.

[Spark1111]

Hmmm... I think that children should have NO idea what their parents are doing sexually, period. Why would a child know this about their parents? That they are having an affair? To me, that would be adult matters, and extremely inappropriate to drag a child of ANY age into that, as it is not about them. Children's parents have lives apart from their children - erotic, sexual, and emotional lives that the children are not, and should not be, privy too. There are clear boundaries in that, appropriate healthy boundaries. Anyone crossing those, and filling a child in on anything so adult, is emotionally abusing that child by placing adult issues on their shoulders when they are not even physically psychologically able to process it or understand it or "deal" with it. Why would anyone do that? Why would any child need to know what their parent is doing in that manner?

 

My exMM's child had NO idea that exMM was seeing someone else - until stbxw made comments in front of him. To me, that is damaging. The child did not understand what his mother was talking about, and exMM (thankfully) refused to discuss it in front of the child. Of course then, stbxw didn't want to discuss it when the child wasn't present, as she was using their child as her buffer - extremely inappropriate and extremely damaging to the child. Imo, that is "bad" parenting - far worse than her husband cheating and not filling the child in on that info or the details.

 

I also think it's worse for a child to be in a home where the parents aren't modeling a good relationship. If someone is going to say that a parent having an affair is a "bad" parent, then I would have to counter with, a parent not participating in a loving and giving relationship as a model for their child is a "bad" parent. If one parent does the other first, and then the other parent "cheats"... imo, the other parent is "more" responsible for not leaving when they decided to not participate in the relationship any longer. Whatever comes after that (ie "cheating") is secondary to the first "bad parent" move, imo.

 

My exMM never took time away from his child for me. His child was none the wiser until stbxw dragged the child into it. That was on her - not on me or on exMM. She attempted to use her child for leverage, for guilt, for power in a relationship that she had not wanted for years. Ugh. We didn't take exMMs child on outings, or flaunt our relationship to the child, or flaunt it in general so that the child would hear about it at school or wherever. We were discreet, and exMM always spent as much time as possible (I was not a deterrant in any way) with his child - and still does. Our schedules synched up in a way that the time we were together, his child was sleeping, or had other plans (sports, activities, etc.), at school, or whatever. It was never taking time away from his child - just time away from his stbxw.

 

I find it interesting that so many are stating here that children should know about their parent's sexual and intimate lives - that is so enmeshed, and so unhealthy. Unless the child is an adult, and even then, I would find it odd to share that kind of information with a child - as it puts them in a very awkward position. And honestly, I can see no reason for telling them things of this nature than to possibly attempt to turn them against one parent, or use them as a buffer or a pawn in some type of struggle. What would be a good reason to tell a child that has NO idea about this part of his/her parent's lives? I honestly can't think of a single one that wouldn't be an example of "bad" parenting, or unhealthy enmeshment... ????

 

 

Well kudos to anyone in an affair who can so compartmentalize their love for another that they think no one, spouse or child, is feeling the effects of a distant, remote and absentee (at least emotionally) spouse and parent.

 

It isn't what you say, it's what you do or don't do or do differently, that children pick up on.

 

In our case, the vibes were soooooo different and the detachment from us, profound.

 

I, ever naive and clueless, had no idea.

 

Come to find out my children suspected their father's affair waaaaay before I did and said NOTHING to spare my feelings.

 

Imagine that?

[Spark1111]

honestly, the idea that children can be shielded from the actions of a parent(s) is nice, but often not realistic...

 

I have read ( and experienced) on here how many wayward spouses chnage their parenting behavior during an affair. Many act poorly towards their children, are short tempered, angry, pre-occupied or just plain not around. I know that many other men/women are told differently, but it can and does happen.

The children are affected not so much because they were told "mommy/daddy is having an affair", but by the by products of the affair its self. The betrayed spouse is expected to hold everything together , push down their emotions and keep the family chuggin' along while the wayward spouse is out trying to have "their needs met" somewhere else...( I think this really is a situation where if you haven't experienced it first hand, either as the betrayed spouse or child,, you don't know what it's like)...

 

Does this mean the wayward spouse is not fit to be a custodial parent? Maybe, maybe not...but it should be part of the equation.

 

Could not agree more FS!

 

And in some case, the marriage is so acrimonious that a divorce should have already happened because the environment is TOXIC to children.

 

In those cases, the divorce is almost a relief and the discovery of an AP, not such a shock or betrayal.

 

But in so many other cases, that is not the truth sadly.