Infidelity and "even ground"

[Furious]

I most certainly felt the imbalance. As time went by during our reconciliation, I found myself increasingly focused on it. I felt like I had done a lot to process things and felt we could move forward. I loved my wife and had a huge desire to forgive her and make something of our lives.

 

But the more I felt "better," the more I just couldn't believe that my wife was going to have gotten away with this year-long fantasy affair in the middle of our marriage and I was somehow going to be ok with it. I wanted to reconcile but that just seemed too huge to choke down. Here I was suffering and she gets rewarded with a better marriage. Was I so desperate that I would accept such a humiliating imbalance?

 

I've talked about my 'balance' affair here enough so I won't revisit it except to say that it worked in one way (things were much closer to being in balance

and I was no longer so emaculated) but it cost me more than I guessed. It solved the imbalance (mostly) but created other (worse) problems.

 

Honestly, short of something like that, I didn't (and don't) know how to resolve the imbalance. I never felt it was about power, just about fairness. It wasn't fair to ask me to get over her ****ing another man for a year. But in the end, in order to reconcile, the BS does need to get over it. I couldn't get over it and couldn't NOT get over it. It drove me crazy and I never did find a solution. Maybe for some people or in some situations, reconciliation is just not in the cards no matter how much you want it. It's now hard to advise people about reconciling. While I believe people can change, that forgiveness is possible, and that marriages can even improve after infidelity, I really have

no idea how to get past the imbalance. Seems very unhealthy to subjugate yourself in such a way. Maybe I am just too prideful? Maybe too judgmental? Maybe I personalized it too much? Some BSs seem to be able to get over it and to be perfectly happy so I know it can be done but I don't think I can answer how.

 

 

 

 

BH

 

I think you knew in your gut she was still lying, and that your revenge affair was more about your intuition that something was off and false about her.

 

I think you wanted to save your marriage but you were too darned smart and called her bluff.

 

I believe in the long run, as much as you went through, you saved your future and saved the awesome man that you are.

[Sauron]

Well Furious, I suppose a revenge A is acceptable and BH can be an awesome man, but my A makes me a narcissistic sociopath because I went first. An A is an A in my book, but nothing like a good double standard, which gets applied liberally here in this part of the site.

[BetrayedH]

BH

 

I think you knew in your gut she was still lying, and that your revenge affair was more about your intuition that something was off and false about her.

 

I think you wanted to save your marriage but you were too darned smart and called her bluff.

 

I believe in the long run, as much as you went through, you saved your future and saved the awesome man that you are.

 

You might be right. I've come to accept that my A was about a need for external validation. After the kick in the gut that I took, my ego was at an all-time low. I knew I was a good person so to speak; I had plenty of self-respect but I felt discarded big time. I felt unattractive and fully emasculated and accepting that my wife had repeatedly been with another man - well, it just does something to a man that is hard to describe. Maybe women go thru something similar. I know the emotional connection is typically more bothersome for women than the physical. I was just the opposite. I didn't seem to care about her emotional connection as long as she severed it.

 

I didn't want to hurt my wife but I sure wanted to be wanted. I felt like I deserved it if I was going to choke down this sh|t sandwich. Once the justifications started in my head about balancing things out, her approving of it, it being a solution to my anger - it was just the perfect storm for me to do something I would never do. Twisted. Grr.

 

And to think that if I had only put on a short skirt and stillettos, I could have gotten that external validation without the whole A part. Damn.

[drifter777]

By the way, BH could be some 26 year old bi-polar lesbian female for all you know.

 

That wouldn't change a thing in the feedback I have given. I would venture to guess that it would not effect other posters either.

[frozensprouts]

(BH...I hope you don't mind me defending you a bit here)

 

many of us gave you a hard time when you first came on here talk of how a revenge affair may bring balance to a marriage where one spouse has cheated...

 

I don't think there was any double standard applied with your situation...many expressed an opinion that it wasn't a good idea...

 

maybe the idea of how to regain balance after an affair is different for each marriage...

[seren]

There is some truth in what Sauron is saying, in that an A, even a revenge A is still an A. Whether for imbalance or not and it seems that the A didn't create the balance nor give peace of mind. TBH, no matter how imbalanced I felt or how pissed off I was at H and A would not be my way to go. I abhor all A's, I don't get why if things are so bad, why at least being honest isn't the better option and then leaving. I realise this isn't everyone's view, but it would feel hypocritical for me, to say I abhor all A's but one for revenge was OK. To coin a phrase used hereabouts, it would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Or have I missed something.

[Spark1111]

There is some truth in what Sauron is saying, in that an A, even a revenge A is still an A. Whether for imbalance or not and it seems that the A didn't create the balance nor give peace of mind. TBH, no matter how imbalanced I felt or how pissed off I was at H and A would not be my way to go. I abhor all A's, I don't get why if things are so bad, why at least being honest isn't the better option and then leaving. I realise this isn't everyone's view, but it would feel hypocritical for me, to say I abhor all A's but one for revenge was OK. To coin a phrase used hereabouts, it would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Or have I missed something.

 

No Seren, you did not miss a thing.

 

However, I too entertained the thought of going out and getting laid after dday....not because I wanted revenge or entertained evening out anything...I just never felt so ugly and unattractive in my life.

 

The man I loved had been with another for over a year and my self-esteem was circling the toilet. But then I snapped to and realized a woman can go up to the corner pub and get lucky ANY TIME SHE WANTS....like shooting fish in a barrel, and I decided that is not me, has never been me, and will never be who I am or what I stand for.

 

What I sense here, and I understand it, are people who felt they had been honorable and committed to their vows their entire married life....and what did it get them? Betrayed!

 

So yes, there can and often is residual resentment in...."Why the hell was I so good for?" Why didn't I ever partake of extracurricular sex with others?"

 

And I understand that. I really do. But I do not think sex with another would balance anything. Could it be fun and exciting? Of course.

 

But balancing power? No. I don't keep score or believe evening the score would make me feel better about myself or my marriage.

 

Power is confidence and it comes from within; having sex with a stranger is simply, to me, sex with a stranger and has nothing to with power, IMO.

 

Maybe because sex, while fun, is not what empowers me; smarts, strength, kindness and resourcefulness do, being true to my values do.....whether in a relationship....or not.

[Furious]

There is some truth in what Sauron is saying, in that an A, even a revenge A is still an A. Whether for imbalance or not and it seems that the A didn't create the balance nor give peace of mind. TBH, no matter how imbalanced I felt or how pissed off I was at H and A would not be my way to go. I abhor all A's, I don't get why if things are so bad, why at least being honest isn't the better option and then leaving. I realise this isn't everyone's view, but it would feel hypocritical for me, to say I abhor all A's but one for revenge was OK. To coin a phrase used hereabouts, it would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Or have I missed something.

 

No one here said that a revenge affair was ok, if you re-read this thread

you'll see it was not about condoning any affair.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Furious

[BetrayedH]

I appreciate those that have come to the defense of my character. There are truly some compassionate people here. And for those that don't understand my choice, I get that. It was pretty vehemently opposed at the time and for good reason.

 

The fact is that my choice was a poor one made from a broken place. I won't defend it. It strikes me as ridiculous now how I could think that I needed to have my own affair in order to save my marriage. I was desperate; it's just a fact. That was my mentality at the time. I have since done what I can to discourage posters from similar twisted thinking. To me, the whole thing speaks to the terribly underestimated damage that an affair does. The weight loss, the lack of sleep, the racing thoughts that go for months on end, mind movies, hypervigilance, not trusting your own judgment about anything whatsoever. Then you throw in some gaslighting, some TT, and broken NC. I feel lucky that I'm still here. I was a good husband and father that did not see this coming. I blamed myself for taking my marriage for granted to the extent that my wife would feel she needed to do this to feel valued. I saw my wife as broken. I wanted to fix her and restore our family. After a few months, I was exhausted and would have done anything to get past it. I wanted the anger gone so I would stop sabotaging our R. I felt it might be better if I carried some of my own guilt so I did not have the perpetual upper hand. And after feeling such rejection, I felt that just some small amount of validation from another woman would rebuild my broken ego just enough to get past her affair. In my case, I hated the term, revenge affair. It was never at all about revenge. For others, perhaps. They wanted their spouse to feel their pain. I just wanted to stop my own pain so we could rebuild. My wife was just supposed to see a man who was healing and I was afraid of 2-5 years of continued hell. Once my A started, I couldn't take the guilt and confessed. Then she told me to consumate it out of her own broken place. It hurt her. It hurt me. And it hurt the OW. It saddens me to talk about and it saddens me to think that it (that I) contributed to the failure of our reconciliation and to our divorce. In particular, I wish I had been stronger so I could keep the family together for my children. Now I have my own awful side of the story. Rest assured Sauron, I'll be owning the consequences of my own actions for some time to come.

 

I'm rambling at this point and I'm just going to stop. I don't condone RAs and I don't expect anyone to condone mine. And I am grateful to those that extend grace to me anyway.

 

Sorry for the t/j, nofool. When it comes to finding balance in the marriage after an affair, I really have no idea and I envy those that do.

[seren]

BH, my response was to the original post and to Sauron's comment regarding how his situation was viewed as not OK and revenge A's seemingly being understood, not necessarily defended. That he used yours as an example prompted my saying that the A did not solve anything. It was not intended as a dig at you personally.

As your posts have proven, a revenge A or indeed any A cannot create an even ground. I wish you well in your healing.

[frozensprouts]

I don't think that it's for the person who is cheating to determine for their betrayed spouse what would bring the relationship back to state of equilibrium...it's individual to each person.

 

I have never really understood serial cheaters ( or cheaters in general) saying that they'd be fine if their spouse cheated as well...why is this? Is it guilt, a desire to be able to say " you can't blame me, they're doing it too" or is it simply that fidelity doesn't matter to them? Maybe a bit of all three? Perhaps that's the way they bring "balance" to the relationship....

 

The problem is that for many people who go down that road, this simply doesn't work, and ends up making them feel worse than they would have felt had they not cheated as well...they become someone they are not, in order to find "balance"...this often ends up making things worse, not better

 

some people say they cheat to bring "balance" to their relationship because there is an imbalance in other areas...I honestly think there has to be a much better way of solving this problem....I wonder how much of that is to "restore balance", how much is attacking the spouse in a passive aggressive way , how much is enjoying pulling a fast one on their betrayed spouse at home, and how much is just an excuse to be selfish....

[Spark1111]

I don't think that it's for the person who is cheating to determine for their betrayed spouse what would bring the relationship back to state of equilibrium...it's individual to each person.

 

I have never really understood serial cheaters ( or cheaters in general) saying that they'd be fine if their spouse cheated as well...why is this? Is it guilt, a desire to be able to say " you can't blame me, they're doing it too" or is it simply that fidelity doesn't matter to them? Maybe a bit of all three? Perhaps that's the way they bring "balance" to the relationship....

 

The problem is that for many people who go down that road, this simply doesn't work, and ends up making them feel worse than they would have felt had they not cheated as well...they become someone they are not, in order to find "balance"...this often ends up making things worse, not better

 

some people say they cheat to bring "balance" to their relationship because there is an imbalance in other areas...I honestly think there has to be a much better way of solving this problem....I wonder how much of that is to "restore balance", how much is attacking the spouse in a passive aggressive way , how much is enjoying pulling a fast one on their betrayed spouse at home, and how much is just an excuse to be selfish....

 

My fWS said that a few months after dday, during an heated argument when I was just trying to understand the mindset of someone who could do this over and over and over again while professing to still love me.

 

In anger, he yelled that he didn't care who I F'd! and I was stunned because he was spending every other waking minute stalking me to ensure I did not find a boyfriend while we were separated.

 

When all the dust settled and I reminded him of this, he was appalled.

 

Yes, I think at that moment in time, my having revenge sex would have, once again, made him less accountable for his actions; actions he did not want to address or explore for a very long time.

 

And all I culd remember was Grandma saying, "Two wrongs never make a right."

[Snowflower]

I appreciate those that have come to the defense of my character. There are truly some compassionate people here. And for those that don't understand my choice, I get that. It was pretty vehemently opposed at the time and for good reason.

 

The fact is that my choice was a poor one made from a broken place. I won't defend it. It strikes me as ridiculous now how I could think that I needed to have my own affair in order to save my marriage. I was desperate; it's just a fact. That was my mentality at the time. I have since done what I can to discourage posters from similar twisted thinking. To me, the whole thing speaks to the terribly underestimated damage that an affair does. The weight loss, the lack of sleep, the racing thoughts that go for months on end, mind movies, hypervigilance, not trusting your own judgment about anything whatsoever. Then you throw in some gaslighting, some TT, and broken NC. I feel lucky that I'm still here. I was a good husband and father that did not see this coming. I blamed myself for taking my marriage for granted to the extent that my wife would feel she needed to do this to feel valued. I saw my wife as broken. I wanted to fix her and restore our family. After a few months, I was exhausted and would have done anything to get past it. I wanted the anger gone so I would stop sabotaging our R. I felt it might be better if I carried some of my own guilt so I did not have the perpetual upper hand. And after feeling such rejection, I felt that just some small amount of validation from another woman would rebuild my broken ego just enough to get past her affair. In my case, I hated the term, revenge affair. It was never at all about revenge. For others, perhaps. They wanted their spouse to feel their pain. I just wanted to stop my own pain so we could rebuild. My wife was just supposed to see a man who was healing and I was afraid of 2-5 years of continued hell. Once my A started, I couldn't take the guilt and confessed. Then she told me to consumate it out of her own broken place. It hurt her. It hurt me. And it hurt the OW. It saddens me to talk about and it saddens me to think that it (that I) contributed to the failure of our reconciliation and to our divorce. In particular, I wish I had been stronger so I could keep the family together for my children. Now I have my own awful side of the story. Rest assured Sauron, I'll be owning the consequences of my own actions for some time to come.

 

I'm rambling at this point and I'm just going to stop. I don't condone RAs and I don't expect anyone to condone mine. And I am grateful to those that extend grace to me anyway.

 

Sorry for the t/j, nofool. When it comes to finding balance in the marriage after an affair, I really have no idea and I envy those that do.

 

I don't think there is a BS who CAN'T relate to what is written above. Whether you are a BS who reconciled or divorced or had an RA or not.

 

I went through a stage where I wanted my H to feel how badly it hurt. IMO, rarely does a WS know how badly it hurts to be cheated on and even if they can understand, they still "don't get it."

 

I cannot condemn a BS who has an RA for whatever reason. Whether it be temporary insanity, blinding pain, a need to even the score, etc. I felt all those things as a BS and I don't think there is a BS out there who hasn't at least thought of having an affair themselves at some point in the aftermath.

 

But I wouldn't condone a BS having an RA either. To me, it just adds more pain and confusion to an already horrific situation.

[road]

 

And all I culd remember was Grandma saying, "Two wrongs never make a right."

 

 

Grandma was a smart lady.

 

The BS having revenge affairs will never undo whatever sex the WS and the OP did.

 

It only makes the WS a WS/BS. The BS then is a BS/WS.

[nofool4u]

I would say there was a huge imbalance before the affair, hence a affair happened.

 

So basically what you are saying, for example, when life gets in the way, raising a family can create some complacency, so if one spouse is feeling a little neglected, then the other can cheat and all is even and good?

[Sauron]

So basically what you are saying, for example, when life gets in the way, raising a family can create some complacency, so if one spouse is feeling a little neglected, then the other can cheat and all is even and good?

 

 

Uhhh, I believe those are your words up above. What I am saying is the realtionship was out of balance before the affair. I am not blaming the BS, but I am saying that there are signficant problems that are the responsbility of both spouses. The act of the affair is on the WS, but the environment was probably primed for it by both. I don't believe that if there is mutual satisfaction for both partners, one just wakes up one day and says, damn things are wonderful I am going to have an affair.

[Spark1111]

Uhhh, I believe those are your words up above. What I am saying is the realtionship was out of balance before the affair. I am not blaming the BS, but I am saying that there are signficant problems that are the responsbility of both spouses. The act of the affair is on the WS, but the environment was probably primed for it by both. I don't believe that if there is mutual satisfaction for both partners, one just wakes up one day and says, damn things are wonderful I am going to have an affair.

 

So,hopefully, one takes serious steps to correct those issues by counseling before embarking on the affair?

 

Marriage retreats?

 

A pastor or priest or therapist to guide the couple in communication?

 

Reading and discussing many famous books written by therapists on how to have a stronger marriage before embarking on an affair?

 

They exhaust every avenue available, and directly say....I am unhappy with fillintheblank, and if WE can't resolve this issue, I may have to have my needs met elsewhere because I really need xyz from you to feel happy and fulfilled.

 

OR, do we flit along, unhappy, until an attractive stranger comes along?

 

And then we regain the power we thought we lost but never took any serious steps to correct it with our spouse?

 

Just wondering.

[Spark1111]

Grandma was a smart lady.

 

The BS having revenge affairs will never undo whatever sex the WS and the OP did.

 

It only makes the WS a WS/BS. The BS then is a BS/WS.

 

AND a WS having an affair to fix the marriage or fix what ails them will NEVER fix the marriage otr truly fill the lonely hole within themselves, IMO.

 

A bandaid, but they will not live an authentically happy and fulfilled life with one half of it in the shadows and the public life filled with misery.

[Spark1111]

I would say there was a huge imbalance before the affair, hence a affair happened. The one time she found out was with her best friend, who told her seperated husband who told my wife (why I never sleep with married women). She was pissed off and upset, but she decided to stay and I wanted her to stay because of my daughter. She tried to make changes to address the problems and I tried to be a better Husband, which lasted about a year and then it was right back to the same old thing, except we had another daughter by then. After 30 plus years, we both have our roles in the relationship, I take care of her and do pretty much what I want when I want and she has her life and there are places we interconnect which are mostly family related.

 

You had an affair with her BEST FRIEND, and you wonder why this woman is just not that into you?

 

Obviously, she stayed for your daughter too.

 

She tried to make changes to address the problems and you tried to be a better husband, but it only lasted for one year? Not long enough.

 

Did you do all the many avenues available to couples who are serious about, not just saving, but creating a better marriage? It takes at least 2 to 5 years to overcome infidelity, maybe longer if it is a double betrayal like a best friend.

 

Did you go to counseling to learn why, of all the women on the planet, you had to have an affair with her best friend?

 

That is a pretty punishing pathology.

 

Why did your wife stay with you? Because you provide and she loves your daughter too. Are you SURE she hasn't had someone to meet her needs also?

 

Because 30 years of living a parallel life with a man who cheated on you and continues to do so says to me, sorry, you may have not been the only one in her life.

 

You took ALL her power away with that move early in the marriage, and it sounds like you are proud of how you continue to do so with your hot OW and your OOW.

 

Sauron, I think you are vengeful, and if I were your counselor, I'd be asking all about your relationship with your mother.....

[Sauron]

So,hopefully, one takes serious steps to correct those issues by counseling before embarking on the affair?

 

Marriage retreats?

 

A pastor or priest or therapist to guide the couple in communication?

 

Reading and discussing many famous books written by therapists on how to have a stronger marriage before embarking on an affair?

 

They exhaust every avenue available, and directly say....I am unhappy with fillintheblank, and if WE can't resolve this issue, I may have to have my needs met elsewhere because I really need xyz from you to feel happy and fulfilled.

 

OR, do we flit along, unhappy, until an attractive stranger comes along?

 

And then we regain the power we thought we lost but never took any serious steps to correct it with our spouse?

 

Just wondering.

 

I suppose you have all the answers, I really don't know how it gets fixed as I would say each one is unique and requires a unique solution. I know if a partner sticks her head in the sand and refuses to do anything she is creating the environment and inviting it to happen.

[Sauron]

You had an affair with her BEST FRIEND, and you wonder why this woman is just not that into you?

 

- Her friend wanted it as much as I did. It only last 3 months.

 

 

Obviously, she stayed for your daughter too.

 

- No, she moved out but came back. I did the mea culpa I wanted it to get better, I wanted to be part of my daughters life.

 

She tried to make changes to address the problems and you tried to be a better husband, but it only lasted for one year? Not long enough.

 

- Actually I tried longer than a year, she quit trying anything at all. She did manage to get pregnant again, even though I was resisting the idea, using condems and those insert spermicide . So why don't you analyze that for me Spark. Why would she want another baby with me after I was banging her BF pretty much everyday for 3 months?

 

 

Did you do all the many avenues available to couples who are serious about, not just saving, but creating a better marriage? It takes at least 2 to 5 years to overcome infidelity, maybe longer if it is a double betrayal like a best friend.

 

- Yes and No, we went to some counseling but SHE wasn't comfortable with the MC. I askl her to find one she was comfortable with and guess what she never did and life chugged on.

 

 

Did you go to counseling to learn why, of all the women on the planet, you had to have an affair with her best friend?

 

- She was smoking hot and an animal in bed and she wanted me and I wanted her. I wish my wife would have particpated maybe she would have learned something. But it was just sex and that is all it ever was goig to be.

 

That is a pretty punishing pathology.

 

- You are making a large leap with that statement as you do not have all the facts. But large leaps are common in this part of the site.

 

Why did your wife stay with you? Because you provide and she loves your daughter too. Are you SURE she hasn't had someone to meet her needs also?

 

- I would be OK with that as long as she is discreet. And I would probably join them if she was built that way. Unfortunately she is not. I am gone a lot so she has plenty of opportunity.

 

Because 30 years of living a parallel life with a man who cheated on you and continues to do so says to me, sorry, you may have not been the only one in her life.

 

- Look I am fine with that. If I am not getting it done for her, she can knock herself out as long as she is discreet about it. She says she gets orgasms from our sex, she should as it is the same everytime so she must have perfected it for her. I probably should get some acknowledgement for maning up and taking care of her that way. It's like eating the same thing the same way everyday for 30 years, but I do it.

 

 

You took ALL her power away with that move early in the marriage, and it sounds like you are proud of how you continue to do so with your hot OW and your OOW.

 

- Take her power away, really. She has it pretty good Spark, I would imagine there are many women that would trade places with her in heartbeat at least from a materialistic point of view. I get my needs met with out destroying my family and business. I thought about using escorts, but I don't like the idea of supporting expolited women.

 

Sauron, I think you are vengeful, and if I were your counselor, I'd be asking all about your relationship with your mother.....

 

- Again with the Mother thing. My Mother was a saint, she raised me on her own and did the best she could with the resources she had. I grew up about as normal as anyone could. I am not vengeful I am just a human male with human needs and I find a way to meet them. Maybe you could ask Tara since she is a realtionships counselor.

[TaraMaiden]

- Again with the Mother thing. My Mother was a saint, she raised me on her own and did the best she could with the resources she had. I grew up about as normal as anyone could. I am not vengeful I am just a human male with human needs and I find a way to meet them. Maybe you could ask Tara since she is a realtionships counselor.

I WAS.

I'm no longer professionally active in that field.

[NordicStripes]

Sauron, I'm sorry to say, but you sound like one of the most disrespectful, cave-men like, full-of-it men I have ever come across in my life. I am amazed that you can find any woman wanting to be with you in the first place. You must pretend to be someone else around them, because really, I'm stupefied.

[Sauron]

Sauron, I'm sorry to say, but you sound like one of the most disrespectful, cave-men like, full-of-it men I have ever come across in my life. I am amazed that you can find any woman wanting to be with you in the first place. You must pretend to be someone else around them, because really, I'm stupefied.

 

Welcome to the group you will fit in nicely!

[nofool4u]

Uhhh, I believe those are your words up above. What I am saying is the realtionship was out of balance before the affair. I am not blaming the BS, but I am saying that there are signficant problems that are the responsbility of both spouses. The act of the affair is on the WS, but the environment was probably primed for it by both. I don't believe that if there is mutual satisfaction for both partners, one just wakes up one day and says, damn things are wonderful I am going to have an affair.

 

Things may have been out of balance before an affair, but more than likely not in a way that causes constant grief like being cheated on.

 

Both spouses are responsible for the state of the marriage. But cheating compounds the problem. So if I have to put it bluntly, then so be it. Here it goes.

 

If one spouse goes out and f##ks someone else, that creates a HUGE imbalance. That is something the will never be forgotten and will sting like a b!tch when triggers hit. Imbalances that have been corrected, like a complacency issue, doesn't cause the kind of resentment that infidelity does.