nofool4u Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I'd like to ask the question of WS's, or people who have cheated on a significant other that stayed with them. You cheated. Your SO took you back and forgave you. So now the problem in my mind is there is a huge imbalance in the relationship. One of you got to go out and get your juke on with someone outside the relationship. And now you have to just "deal with it". I'm not advocating a revenge affair, because nobody needs to lower themselves to that level. But now there is one of you that cheated with someone else. Where is the balance now? I guess what I'm asking is, since there is this huge imbalance now, what should be, or is expected of the cheating partner to make it up to the betrayed partner? What is it that the cheating partner has, can, or is doing to "even things out", since a revenge affair from the betrayed is clearly not the answer? I'll never stick around to find out what the cheater can do to make amends, but I'm curious just what hoops should a cheating partner go through to make it up to them? For any BS's, what has your WS done to bring balance back to the relationship now that you have the knowledge that they got to go out and get their fun with someone else?
frozensprouts Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 there is nothing he can do to bring balance back to the relationship...only I could do that within myself. 1
Author nofool4u Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 I agree, which is the main reason I'll never stay with someone who has given the relationship that imbalance.
JamesM Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Actually, I would think that the WS has less of the power. He or she has cheated and now needs to prove that he or she will be worthy of this forgiveness. The BS has the power to decide the WS's future and the future of the marriage. The WS now needs to "kiss b*tt" and show complete openness. The revenge affair is simply an angry reaction that makes no one feel better, and it gives much of the power back to the WS who now can say, "You are no better than me." 2
Ninja'sHusband Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I think most WSs view their affair as a balancing act for some previous offense by the BS. So I'm betting from the WS's POV they ARE on even ground now. Am I right WSs? Tell me about how your situation is special. 1
waterwoman Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I suspect H doesn't feel he's one-up. He has been through hell with me the last few months while I processed the affair and it's consequences. Added to which he had to face the fact that *he* did this and was totally vulnerable to anything I could say or do to him. He was in constant fear of my kicking him out. Truth is that in some ways his affair was a good thing for us - it has meant we have had to face the problems we had and address them once and for all. Anyway now it isn't about winners or losers or getting one over on anyone - it's about us, as a couple, trying to make things right.
Furious Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Actually, I would think that the WS has less of the power. He or she has cheated and now needs to prove that he or she will be worthy of this forgiveness. The BS has the power to decide the WS's future and the future of the marriage. The WS now needs to "kiss b*tt" and show complete openness. The revenge affair is simply an angry reaction that makes no one feel better, and it gives much of the power back to the WS who now can say, "You are no better than me." If a reconciliation is only about power then it's doomed to fail. True reconciliation is about shared respect, compassion and love. 2
drifter777 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 If a reconciliation is only about power then it's doomed to fail. True reconciliation is about shared respect, compassion and love. Is feeling like your relationship can never be in balance again because one of you enjoyed sex with someone else about "power"? I'm asking because I hate feeling this way and it is one of the final things (I hope) that I have to resolve to finally accept what my wife did. Power may be part of it, but I don't think it is that simple. I also think true reconciliation also includes an element of the WS truly earning back the trust and respect of their BS. It is not a gift, it must be earned to be real. To me compassion by the BS is even attempting to work on the relationship and give the WS a chance to prove they are worthy of some level of forgiveness. What do you mean when you say "compassion"? 1
Furious Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Is feeling like your relationship can never be in balance again because one of you enjoyed sex with someone else about "power"? I'm asking because I hate feeling this way and it is one of the final things (I hope) that I have to resolve to finally accept what my wife did. Power may be part of it, but I don't think it is that simple. I also think true reconciliation also includes an element of the WS truly earning back the trust and respect of their BS. It is not a gift, it must be earned to be real. To me compassion by the BS is even attempting to work on the relationship and give the WS a chance to prove they are worthy of some level of forgiveness. What do you mean when you say "compassion"? When I say compassion, it's given by both the BS and WS, it cannot be one sided. That you meet in the middle, that you both shed tears together and own the mistakes you've made. That you both offer and give each other compassion. This is the true power in a reconciliation, and not vindictiveness by evening a score. 3
road Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Affairs can not be made even by a revenge affair. It just adds to the problems. All the WS and the BS can do is make the marriage better post dday.
Author nofool4u Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 Affairs can not be made even by a revenge affair. It just adds to the problems. All the WS and the BS can do is make the marriage better post dday. But how does that happen when the WS got to have their little fun outside the marriage? Sure, moving on and working on things works for the WS, not so much for the BS because they will never forget. If I were to have stayed with my x-wife, it would have been one false move and she'd have been shown the door, because it will always have been in the back of my mind that she went out and rode another man. So reconciliation works for her, but what do I now get out of it if I were to stay? 1
drifter777 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 When I say compassion, it's given by both the BS and WS, it cannot be one sided. That you meet in the middle, that you both shed tears together and own the mistakes you've made. That you both offer and give each other compassion. This is the true power in a reconciliation, and not vindictiveness by evening a score. I disagree with most of this because it paints a picture of some kind of cathartic event brought about by the affair such that some "good" came out of it. You are overlooking the fact that the WS betrayed, belittled, and devastated their spouse. The weight of reconciliation - especially the early days/months - is squarely on the WS. The WS must attempt to right their wrong or the compassion you speak of cannot exist. Why does "evening the score" have to be equated with vindictiveness? The urge to lash out and hurt someone who has betrayed you is as natural as breathing. The key is whether the BS is willing to give up some of their righteous indignation and anger and accept the WS's pleas to try to reconcile. Some are not, and a quick divorce is what works for them. Some compartmentalize their feelings and accept reconciliation half-heartedly. Many of these will not make it, some of them will. Still others are willing to forego vengeance entirely and give their WS a chance to repair the damage they have done. Perhaps the difference in our points of view is due to the fact that I'm a BH and you are a BW. The reactions and emotions of men and women can be vastly different on this subject. 1
Decorative Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I never had the urge to hurt my spouse or make him feel the way I did. It was the worst pain I ever felt ( and my life has had some doozies), but at the end of the day, I have always loved him, and I would not want him to hurt the way I did. I don't know that I feel we are not in balance. He says he will never be able to make just compensation to me, because I did not deserve what he did. But he shows me everyday that he was worth staying with, and our marriage was worth fighting to save.
Furious Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) I disagree with most of this because it paints a picture of some kind of cathartic event brought about by the affair such that some "good" came out of it. You are overlooking the fact that the WS betrayed, belittled, and devastated their spouse. The weight of reconciliation - especially the early days/months - is squarely on the WS. The WS must attempt to right their wrong or the compassion you speak of cannot exist. Why does "evening the score" have to be equated with vindictiveness? The urge to lash out and hurt someone who has betrayed you is as natural as breathing. The key is whether the BS is willing to give up some of their righteous indignation and anger and accept the WS's pleas to try to reconcile. Some are not, and a quick divorce is what works for them. Some compartmentalize their feelings and accept reconciliation half-heartedly. Many of these will not make it, some of them will. Still others are willing to forego vengeance entirely and give their WS a chance to repair the damage they have done. Perhaps the difference in our points of view is due to the fact that I'm a BH and you are a BW. The reactions and emotions of men and women can be vastly different on this subject. My point, is that marriages must have, respect, compassion and love, that it's a two way street and must be reciprocated by both partners. I would rather divorce than to compromise on these essential needs. Infidelity is none of those things, and a better marriage is not built from it, or anything "good' comes from it. It's just the hardest road to take, if there is hope and the will to repair the damage it caused. False reconciliation and the need for revenge is a recipe for disaster. I have no interest in evening the score, because it would hurt me more than it would hurt someone who is not remorseful. I am, an all in or all out type of person, and I'm good with either if my heart and mind are one. Edited October 2, 2012 by Furious 3
Sauron Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I would say there was a huge imbalance before the affair, hence a affair happened. The one time she found out was with her best friend, who told her seperated husband who told my wife (why I never sleep with married women). She was pissed off and upset, but she decided to stay and I wanted her to stay because of my daughter. She tried to make changes to address the problems and I tried to be a better Husband, which lasted about a year and then it was right back to the same old thing, except we had another daughter by then. After 30 plus years, we both have our roles in the relationship, I take care of her and do pretty much what I want when I want and she has her life and there are places we interconnect which are mostly family related.
waterwoman Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I love my H. Which is why we are still together and doing the work. Yes, I admit there are times when I want him to know how much I hurt - to feel a little bit of it - but most of the time I know I could never inflict the way I feel on him. Why would you do that to someone you love? If I did it now it would be worse than him because it would be done in cold blood with 'malice aforethought'. We aren't out of balance because D-Day was Day 0 - marriage started again. Game over. This is a new game.
frozensprouts Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Re: balance... like i have said, only I can bring about a sense of "balance" within myself...nothing my husband does/doesn't do will change anything. I can choose to hold it forever over his head, like Damocles sword while he waits for retribution, but what's the point of that?I don't want to live like that... His having an affair doesn't forever forgive anything and everything negative I might do, nor does it mean I want him to beg for forgiveness. Part of reconciling was both of us accepting that he cheated and that nothing either one of us could do would ever change that. If one of us feels bad about it, we talk about it, not to be hurtful or cause guilt, but to let the negative feelings out, talk about them so they don't fester, and move on. Sometimes, he needs that , and so do I. 5
Betrayed&Stayed Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I'd like to ask the question of WS's, or people who have cheated on a significant other that stayed with them. You cheated. Your SO took you back and forgave you. So now the problem in my mind is there is a huge imbalance in the relationship. One of you got to go out and get your juke on with someone outside the relationship. And now you have to just "deal with it". I'm not advocating a revenge affair, because nobody needs to lower themselves to that level. But now there is one of you that cheated with someone else. Where is the balance now? I guess what I'm asking is, since there is this huge imbalance now, what should be, or is expected of the cheating partner to make it up to the betrayed partner? What is it that the cheating partner has, can, or is doing to "even things out", since a revenge affair from the betrayed is clearly not the answer? I'll never stick around to find out what the cheater can do to make amends, but I'm curious just what hoops should a cheating partner go through to make it up to them? For any BS's, what has your WS done to bring balance back to the relationship now that you have the knowledge that they got to go out and get their fun with someone else? In my situation the balance of power is a huge challenge. I feel that she had all of the power because she changed the rules (vows) without telling me. She played by a different set of rules that included dating, screwing, lying, and deception while I played by the original set of rules: faithfulness, honesty. By keeping me in the dark for so long I feel that she had the "upper hand" for all of those years. Consciously and subconsciously I push back on that imbalance of power. I often get defensive if I feel that she is trying to boss me around or dictate what I can or cannot do; or how I should feel or react to triggers. For her (WW) she feels that I now have the bulk of the power. I can leave or stay due to the affair. She now feels that I now have the "upper hand" in the marriage because of her affair. She can't help but think that she "owes" me for what she did to me. It's very difficult and can lead to stressful moments as it did just last night. 1
drifter777 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 This is interesting to me and I'd like to get the thread back on topic. What OP is asking is what can ever balance the scales in a marriage after one of the partners has had sex with someone else. Among all of the horror in the immediate aftermath of d-day, the urge to get even is there in nearly all cases. He's saying that he doesn't think a revenge affair would help and wants to know if there is anything that has helped even that particular score. I'm looking for the answer as well because I hate the feeling of imbalance but have no idea how to solve the problem. Have any BS's felt this way and found something that helped them feel back in balance? Does it have to be divorce?
Decorative Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 In my opinion, it cannot be evened. So if that need becomes paramount to a reconciliation, then I would have to say I see no point in continuing the relationship . 4
seren Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I have had a good long think about the topic of this thread before posting, trying to look at without the benefit of time passed since D Day or rose coloured glasses on. I didn't feel an imbalance when H had his A, nor that he now had the upper hand, a revenge affair is so outside my thought process at the time, that I don't relate to doing or feeling a need to do that. Had I done so, I know we wouldn't be where we are now. I suppose I knew early on that the A was all about H and how he felt about himself than me or us. I have come to understand that H's affair was more about him feeling 'less than' and powerless than sex or a relationship with the OW. In our pre A marriage, I was the more dominant one, taking care of everything, one of us had to be and he was often away in Iraq or wherever. I can see with hindsight that what that did, in my attempts to stop him feeling stressed, was to make him feel he had no use, having a revenge A would have added to our problems. I am not the type of person to seek anyone out for casual sex, it would make me feel disempowered. H said he would understand if I felt like doing the same, but he knew and I knew that would never happen. I also know that it would have floored him completely. Strangely my not being capable all the time and not trying to shield H has evened out the imbalance and our relationship is better for it. maybe if H's didn't make sense I might feel differently, I don't know. I suppose I am a believer in, if we are meant to be together then we will be and that there is no place for another problem to add to the mix. Reconciling was difficult enough without adding another A to the pot. I know that H feels he has damaged our marriage, I just want to move along, life is far too short for looking over my shoulder all the time. I am of the, it happened, I have accepted that and we have worked to address what was wrong and now we move along. If the A had been different, had there been love, declarations and promised made, then maybe I would feel differently. Interesting thread. 2
BetrayedH Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I most certainly felt the imbalance. As time went by during our reconciliation, I found myself increasingly focused on it. I felt like I had done a lot to process things and felt we could move forward. I loved my wife and had a huge desire to forgive her and make something of our lives. But the more I felt "better," the more I just couldn't believe that my wife was going to have gotten away with this year-long fantasy affair in the middle of our marriage and I was somehow going to be ok with it. I wanted to reconcile but that just seemed too huge to choke down. Here I was suffering and she gets rewarded with a better marriage. Was I so desperate that I would accept such a humiliating imbalance? I've talked about my 'balance' affair here enough so I won't revisit it except to say that it worked in one way (things were much closer to being in balance and I was no longer so emaculated) but it cost me more than I guessed. It solved the imbalance (mostly) but created other (worse) problems. Honestly, short of something like that, I didn't (and don't) know how to resolve the imbalance. I never felt it was about power, just about fairness. It wasn't fair to ask me to get over her ****ing another man for a year. But in the end, in order to reconcile, the BS does need to get over it. I couldn't get over it and couldn't NOT get over it. It drove me crazy and I never did find a solution. Maybe for some people or in some situations, reconciliation is just not in the cards no matter how much you want it. It's now hard to advise people about reconciling. While I believe people can change, that forgiveness is possible, and that marriages can even improve after infidelity, I really have no idea how to get past the imbalance. Seems very unhealthy to subjugate yourself in such a way. Maybe I am just too prideful? Maybe too judgmental? Maybe I personalized it too much? Some BSs seem to be able to get over it and to be perfectly happy so I know it can be done but I don't think I can answer how. 1
frozensprouts Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I think it's also possible to forgive your spouse, but to not feel that reconciliation is possible....maybe the distortion in the balance of the relationship is to great, maybe one can't look at their wayward spouse the same way anymore, maybe they just know they can't get past the affair, or maybe they just know that they can't be with someone who cheated...whatever the reason, the decision is the right one for them.
Furious Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I have no interest in a revenge affair, because an affair is so easy to find, as I proved to my husband. I know with certainty that if we were to divorce I would be a great catch and have no trouble finding a new partner. The dilemma is, if I were to truly give reconciliation a real chance, a revenge affair or balancing out the wrong, is a recipe for disaster and so against my personal moral code, I refuse to be a hypocrite. I am giving reconciliation a chance, only because my husband has shown with not just words but actions that prove to me he is sincere. Betrayal is not only about the sex, to me the lies are the biggest betrayal. 1
Ninja'sHusband Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I get a lot of advice from counselors to "live in the now" and not in the past...or future. Yoda says about Luke: always looking to the future this one is. Never his mind on where he is, what he is doing. (Yoda being the source of all wisdom of course) So maybe if the "now" is good you can find your own peace and not worry about the past and not get too paranoid about the future. *Theoretically* balance shouldn't matter. This is really hard to pull off though. A lot of my divorce was based on predicting the future based on the past. "If she's around OM, history will repeat", is what kept going through my mind. And I didn't want to have to be around OM every week to prevent it.
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