Men getting 'mad' at women for not having sex

[SensitiveTJ]

I don't think anyone is saying that. No is saying she is obligated due to past practice. What people are saying (i think) is that, if she is not coherent with her past behaviour, then something is not right... In this context, what stops a man from thinking:

"What don't i have, that the other guy does?";

 

"What if she reconnects with that guy? Given that she had sex with him much earlier, that means that her chemistry with him is much bigger than with me and therefore i would be left standing".

 

These are two examples that have been confided to me by friends and i'm pretty sure alot more things go through a man's mind in these circumstances. Fortunately, i never had to endure this situation... Thankfully.

With this said, i personally don't mind waiting at all. But this act of waiting is an "act of faith" in the sense that the man assumes the woman is being truthful in her intentions. As such, the woman's past may provide credibility for the man to be willing to make this "leap of faith".

Not sure if i'm making myself understood.

 

"Obligation" is the wrong word. No one is ever obligated to have sex. However, a certain degree of consistency has to involved in making these kind of decisions. It would seem disrespectful to make Guy F wait while A-E got it right away. To a man, that would indicate either that he lacks the necessary charisma or that the woman is being cruel on purpose. Obviously, neither goes over well.

[InJest]

Im dead serious. Most young guys get into relationships in order to lock ***** down, if they could reliably get it whenever they wanted many men wouldn't be in relationships.

 

Dating, for example, is entirely for the benefit of women. We don't even have to know your name to know whether or not we want to pound you out.

 

While I do agree with Greznog that most men are like this, but to guys that can have sex easily, companionship does become more important after a while. I don't know what you consider "young guys" but I'm 26, and rarely have to go longer than 2 or 3 weeks without sex when I'm single, and I dropped the two girls I was ****ing(one is hotter than my g/f) to be with my g/f. She never asked for exclusivity or where we stand or anything. I did it because I realized I wanted nothing to do with anyone else.

[verhrzn]

"Obligation" is the wrong word. No one is ever obligated to have sex. However, a certain degree of consistency has to involved in making these kind of decisions. It would seem disrespectful to make Guy F wait while A-E got it right away. To a man, that would indicate either that he lacks the necessary charisma or that the woman is being cruel on purpose. Obviously, neither goes over well.

 

What about the idea that she didn't really like A-E, and thus didn't care if they left after getting sex, but she cares about Guy F and doesn't want to take any chances?

 

Girls are constantly being told not to give it up too soon, or else the guy will think you're a slut and not date you. Now, if a girl doesn't CARE about dating you, then she doesn't care if you think she's a slut. But if she actually likes you, and wants your connection to become a relationship, she wants you to view her in the best light... aka, not a slut.

 

So how are girls supposed to deal with that... the fact that guys will judge us if we have sex too soon, but leave us if we wait too long?

[InJest]

So how are girls supposed to deal with that... the fact that guys will judge us if we have sex too soon, but leave us if we wait too long?

 

Do what's comfortable for you and let the cards fall.

[SensitiveTJ]

What about the idea that she didn't really like A-E, and thus didn't care if they left after getting sex, but she cares about Guy F and doesn't want to take any chances?

 

Girls are constantly being told not to give it up too soon, or else the guy will think you're a slut and not date you. Now, if a girl doesn't CARE about dating you, then she doesn't care if you think she's a slut. But if she actually likes you, and wants your connection to become a relationship, she wants you to view her in the best light... aka, not a slut.

 

So how are girls supposed to deal with that... the fact that guys will judge us if we have sex too soon, but leave us if we wait too long?

 

Well, I really don't know why a girl would have sex with a guy she doesn't like. That seems odd. I assume you mean sex with someone she doesn't foresee a possible relationship with? My advice would be precisely: don't do that. Because you've basically waived any possibility of being taken seriously when you ask a future guy to "wait." If you have two sets of sexual standards, one for "casual" guys and one for "serious potential" guys, then I'm sorry, you've already lost any kind of credibility. Unless your actions are consistent, then they don't deserve much respect.

[verhrzn]

Well, I really don't know why a girl would have sex with a guy she doesn't like. That seems odd. I assume you mean sex with someone she doesn't foresee a possible relationship with? My advice would be precisely: don't do that. Because you've basically waived any possibility of being taken seriously when you ask a future guy to "wait." If you have two sets of sexual standards, one for "casual" guys and one for "serious potential" guys, then I'm sorry, you've already lost any kind of credibility. Unless your actions are consistent, then they don't deserve much respect.

 

Why is it inconsistant? Men do it all the time... sleeping with girls they are physically into, but would never take home to Mom. My ex-bf slept with tons of girls that he said he had absolutely no interest in dating, for one reason or another. Why don't girls get to have the same criteria? Maybe a guy is really physically attractive but has the personality of a door knob.

[GoodOnPaper]

What about the idea that she didn't really like A-E, and thus didn't care if they left after getting sex, but she cares about Guy F and doesn't want to take any chances?

 

Girls are constantly being told not to give it up too soon, or else the guy will think you're a slut and not date you. Now, if a girl doesn't CARE about dating you, then she doesn't care if you think she's a slut. But if she actually likes you, and wants your connection to become a relationship, she wants you to view her in the best light... aka, not a slut.

 

So how are girls supposed to deal with that... the fact that guys will judge us if we have sex too soon, but leave us if we wait too long?

 

So you have two tracks -- one for ONS guys and one for "relationship" guys. The thing is, even "relationship" guys want sex to be just as intense, passionate, and visceral as what you might have with a ONS guy. If I was guy F in your scenario, I would figure that you were actually more attracted to guys A-E than to me -- and why would you want a relationship with a guy that you aren't as attracted to? Of course, I've never had casual sex and I'm sure that alters my perspective. Maybe a guy with a number of ONSs/FWBs would understand this better and see what the waiting is really about.

[verhrzn]

So you have two tracks -- one for ONS guys and one for "relationship" guys. The thing is, even "relationship" guys want sex to be just as intense, passionate, and visceral as what you might have with a ONS guy. If I was guy F in your scenario, I would figure that you were actually more attracted to guys A-E than to me -- and why would you want a relationship with a guy that you aren't as attracted to? Of course, I've never had casual sex and I'm sure that alters my perspective. Maybe a guy with a number of ONSs/FWBs would understand this better and see what the waiting is really about.

 

Because the attraction could be the same, but only one guy has dating potential. Maybe I'm attracted to both Guy A and Guy F, but Guy A is unemployed, so he is immediately stricken from the "dating potentials" box. You can be equally attracted to two people, but decide one has better long-term potential.

 

Again, would you rather a girl wait and sleep with you when you're in a long-term relationship, or sleep with you right away and then never call you back?

[Ninjainpajamas]

So you have two tracks -- one for ONS guys and one for "relationship" guys. The thing is, even "relationship" guys want sex to be just as intense, passionate, and visceral as what you might have with a ONS guy. If I was guy F in your scenario, I would figure that you were actually more attracted to guys A-E than to me -- and why would you want a relationship with a guy that you aren't as attracted to? Of course, I've never had casual sex and I'm sure that alters my perspective. Maybe a guy with a number of ONSs/FWBs would understand this better and see what the waiting is really about.

 

For the most part there is a certain group of men who struggle with the waiting for sex problem...because the desirable or capable men/hot jerks are the guys who don't have the issues because they're typically the guys that these women are having ONS and FWB's type scenarios with.

 

Basically they're desirable, so they're worth the roll of the dice to women for at least the moment or chance. Women know these men have options and are basically throwing it out there in the hopes of locking this guy down into a relationship but in the event it doesn't work out, he was worth the short lived excitement. Women want a relationship but can get caught up easily as well in the experience.

 

The problem becomes the average joe's problem, the nice guy who's got limited experience just trying to listen to women and treat them with respect, and all of that. They go over the top in trying to swoon women over like in the movies, they pull out all the stops because this is what they feel they have to do, they feel chivalrous, noble and all "my lady" like. They don't realize that a lot of these women are just venting or upset that the last jerk didn't put in the effort that they wanted him too...It's not about men in general or even about this guy they're dating.

 

These average/nice guys don't have any overwhelmingly engrossing qualities...one because of looks/appeal, and two because of personality or other characteristics...these guys are just ok or "nice", so they're easier to keep in check and be in control of. Women don't want to be in control though, they want to be swept but these guys tend to be too passive and too nurturing and attentive, and neglectful of their own desires and needs...they don't embrace or exude their manliness mojo.

 

I've never heard from a guy who'd be in the "desirable" category complain about not getting sex or being made to wait for sex...If he is really into to a woman then he sticks around because he's into her, but on paper it went no differently than it did with the other girls he was boning...the rest just get strung along or used as backups while they're dating other women. There's no dry spells for them.

 

Men and women who generally go in and out of relationships and sexual experiences tend to have pretty big "issues"...most people at some point desire stability, comfort and companionship that come out of a relationship, they just can't resolve the issues that keep them out of one...and for many men, casual sex means limited emotional investment, while others are not able to engage in it, it's just not for them.

 

Desirable men aren't used to "waiting" because women don't make them wait, so some of them freak out...and the guys that don't quite fit that category are used to waiting, but they'd rather be the other guy so It becomes frustrating and feeling like they're being played with.

 

The problem is women don't cut off the guys they aren't really that interested in, and men don't cut off women that they could just simply have sex with.

 

Excluding a group of women that are really looking for something specific, don't want their time wasted and don't want to waste others and are really serious about who they get to know and have sex with...because they don't engage in that lifestyle/behavior...and any experienced man can tell the difference because the demeanor is much different, and so is the conversation.

 

But that's my opinion and In my experience, what I've heard/seen from other men/women alike.

[SensitiveTJ]

Because the attraction could be the same, but only one guy has dating potential. Maybe I'm attracted to both Guy A and Guy F, but Guy A is unemployed, so he is immediately stricken from the "dating potentials" box. You can be equally attracted to two people, but decide one has better long-term potential.

 

Again, would you rather a girl wait and sleep with you when you're in a long-term relationship, or sleep with you right away and then never call you back?

 

 

To answer the second part of your post, neither would bother me. I would probably be disappointed with the ONS girl, because I myself pursue serious relationships, but that's their choice. But the point is that you can't treat people differently in particular way-not waiting vs. waiting- and expect people to take you seriously. Because it's hurtful to the guys you are making wait. It sends the message that they aren't good enough.

[GoodOnPaper]

Again, would you rather a girl wait and sleep with you when you're in a long-term relationship, or sleep with you right away and then never call you back?

 

I've never pictured this being an either/or type thing. I will say that it seems that ONS attraction is much more intense and visceral than relationship attraction -- even when the woman says she'd rather have a relationship -- and I would have liked to have been on the receiving end of such ONS attraction at least once.

 

Ironically, as bad as I've been at attracting women, with the few that did date me, there were never any problems pertaining to "moving too fast" or "waiting too long". I never felt rushed nor did I ever feel that I was being taken advantage of through some artificial waiting period. Is this issue something that is easy to overthink?

[threebyfate]

I didn't mean enter dating with emotions or emotionless. Please think before you speak. I was talking about the emotions for the three date rule. Damn I can see someone is emotional.

The only emotion that's evident in our interaction appears to be your perception of emotion from me where it's not there. In doing so, you believe this to be a manipulative tactic of attempted domination by minimalizing my rebuttal of your perspective. This methodology is definitively creepy.

 

I see with some of the women on here it's a "Why don't men act more like us?" and "Why don't women act more like men?". It's just an incompatibility issue. The man and woman are looking for two different things at the time. It's not that the actual person is meaningless. The problem is men and women see sex, dating and relationships differently. How many men do you honestly know that will go through the hoops for some of you women and wait while you withhold? How would you feel if you went to a hot dog stand for a date and women before you he took them to an expensive restaurant? I think the problem with a lot of guys is a perceived inconsistency. They think if you are into waiting everyone should wait it's not a pick and choose. I could care less because I will move on and find someone more compatible with me.

Withhold. A word loaded with entitlement. Not sure about you but I prefer my partners willing and enthusiastic, rather than duct taped.

[threebyfate]

As do most men, which is why they should move on if it takes someone 4 months to warm up to the idea of being intimate with them.

Well it's a good thing we're talking about the three date rule then, now isn't it?

[threebyfate]

There's a third date rule for sex started by PUAs. Young guys are lapping it up.

 

If a guy walks because he feels he's waited too long. Oh well.

 

It's a perfectly fine rule, if there's no spark you move on.

 

I don't see the problem with it, if you want to wait that's your right.

 

Just like it's a man's right to move on to someone with whom he does share a spark.

Refer to my initial post within this thread.

[fortyninethousand322]

Instead of a 3 date rule, it should be a 6 month rule. That's the minimum waiting period for a responsible person.

[threebyfate]

I've read the topic, we seem to be in agreement but you keep posting like women are entitled to men sticking around until she deigns them worthy of intercourse.

 

You're not. I don't know whether or not the specific 3 dates thing comes from the PUA community but the concept has been around for a long time. 2-3-4 dates doesn't matter, the point is if you're not compatible you're not compatible, no sense in trying to force something that isn't there.

No. But men who feel entitled to sex from a woman even if she's not ready, seriously stir up the "throw up in my mouth a little" reaction.

[runningfar]

What I don't get about the 3 date rule...

 

Most guys have an issue if a girl has a very high number...

 

but if you've been mainly single by your late 20's, as a female, you have slept with a lot of guys if you sleep with someone at the 3rd date... even if you never date more than a person at a time, or anything.

 

It makes no sense.

 

I've been in a relationship almost all my adult life, but I certainly would think third date is usually way too soon, unless you have a long friendship relationship prior to dating.

Guess those guys can walk,

[threebyfate]

So don't date men who aren't willing to wait. What makes your feelings more worthy than his? Nobody is saying women should spread their legs whenever a guy wants it, they're saying he has a right to move on to someone more willing just like you have the right to wait as long as you'd like before you're ready.

With one possible exception, I didn't. But the beauty of my life is that it's no longer a concern for me since I've been happily married for almost 3 years.

 

The above said, it's important that women realize that their bodies are their own, that retards who believe that women's bodies are for their usage, need the boot to the ass out the door.

[fortyninethousand322]

With one possible exception, I didn't. But the beauty of my life is that it's no longer a concern for me since I've been happily married for almost 3 years.

 

The above said, it's important that women realize that their bodies are their own, that retards who believe that women's bodies are for their usage, need the boot to the ass out the door.

 

I won't hold my breath for any of that to happen. Too much momentum going the other way on that. Unfortunately.

[threebyfate]

I won't hold my breath for any of that to happen. Too much momentum going the other way on that. Unfortunately.

Perhaps, perhaps not. But discussing it on LS, might help some of the younger women who feel pressured to have sex sooner than they're prepared, to understand that they can't bend over to fear of loss.

 

If you consider how many women have difficulties having orgasms, I suspect there's some correlation with being pressured to have sex before they're emotionally comfortable enough with the guy to proceed. This doesn't mean that every woman needs that comfort since some can and do compartmentalize sex and emotion. But of the ones who can't compartmentalize, they need to focus on what's more important and that's what resonates true to their internal states.

[joystickd]

The only emotion that's evident in our interaction appears to be your perception of emotion from me where it's not there. In doing so, you believe this to be a manipulative tactic of attempted domination by minimalizing my rebuttal of your perspective. This methodology is definitively creepy.

 

Withhold. A word loaded with entitlement. Not sure about you but I prefer my partners willing and enthusiastic, rather than duct taped.

 

Entitled and controlling is making someone you attracted to wait for your benefit.

[Anela]

Entitled and controlling is making someone you attracted to wait for your benefit.

 

Asking someone to wait until you're comfortable being that intimate, is not entitled and controlling. For some people, it's still a big deal to go that far with someone, rather than meeting so many new people per year, and getting naked with them. This "entitled to expect sex right away" thing, has bothered me for over twenty years, and put me off dating before, as it is again now.

[joystickd]

Asking someone to wait until you're comfortable being that intimate, is not entitled and controlling. For some people, it's still a big deal to go that far with someone, rather than meeting so many new people per year, and getting naked with them. This "entitled to expect sex right away" thing, has bothered me for over twenty years, and put me off dating before, as it is again now.

I think most men understand its a big deal and don't mind waiting a certain period of time, but after so long it one has to wonder the real intentions of this "waiting". The most I have ever waited is for three weeks but my experiences are not with single women. I have known guys that have waited for at least 6 months to a year and as soon as they dump the girl she meets someone else and has sex in a month or less. Place yourself in that man's shoes. How would you feel if you invested time, money, and emotions into someone for that amount of time with no "benefit"?

 

I know for me if I knew her waiting wasn't some BS punishment for what the previous man done and she had other ways of reciprocating interest then it wouldn't be a problem. The biggest thing now days is a lot of people are inconsistent. Women make men wait because they want to know the man is interested in them. Men want to know women are reciprocating what they feel and don't want to be investing in someone that don't feel the same way so they push for sex.

 

The best thing would be to figure out a middleground, but we live in a time where men and women hate to compromise. I am a person that if you work with me I work with you.

[tigressA]

Got to say, not surprised at the responses so far.

[Sanman]

No. But men who feel entitled to sex from a woman even if she's not ready, seriously stir up the "throw up in my mouth a little" reaction.

 

 

The thing is that your view of the word entitlement extends past a woman's right and into a man's right. No one should be forced into sex and women have the right to take whatever time they need. However, the idea that a man should never be angry or upset is taking the man's right to have an emotion. Just because a women decides she is not ready, it does not mean that every man must automatically accept this without emotion. If the man is unhappy, he has a right to express himself. He may leave becauase of this and she has a right to end things if she is uncomfortable with the situation. Being understanding about such a situation is nice of a guy, but women should not have the expectation that every guy MUST graciously accept whatever she chooses. A man has a right to his emotions as well.