Men getting 'mad' at women for not having sex

[Sanman]

There we go. "If she sleeps with another guy, she should be sleeping with me". Any idea how self-entitled this makes you? Any idea how telling your explanation is, in that she's an object for usage where her desires matter little, only your desire to hit it matters?

 

So, in your view, what is the primary reason for you to enter relationships? Might it be sex?

 

No one likes to be used. The question is, what's your currency? Rhetorical question since you view your payback in sex.

 

 

Yep, I am the self entitled one. Actually, it is your view that is self entitled. This idea that moral character can be switched on and off is ridiculous. It should not matter that Girl X got drunk and banged every guy that she ever met within twenty minutes? Now, if said woman presents herself as someone that prefers to take things slow, I am supposed to believe that this is her true character?

 

I'll give you an example. I learned that my ex-gf slept with all of the guys she dated previously (~15 guys) on the first date and did not take them seriously. She liked me and and told me should would have slept with me on the first date if I had pushed for it, but decided to date me as I was willing to wait until the fourth date (teasing and backing off until then). As if my character was any different depending on when she slept me. The truth is that this delay of sex was her using me to practice fixing her broken ways and to appear more chaste than she actually was. Would you tell a woman to trust a guy that said he liked to wait for sex and get to know a woman, but it turns out that he often has drunken ONS's? Or should that not matter? Similarly, I have dated women who resisted sex for several (more than 3 dates) only to dump me because they were dating another guy and wanted to see how thing went with him first before getting further into a relationship with me. Again, selfish.

 

Now, I am consistent. I don't look for sex before the third date and that is because I am looking for progress in the relationship. I have no interest in making any more of an emotional or financial investment than necessary for someone who is not that interested in me. With my current gf, on the other hand, I waited months for sex without getting angry. Why? Because she only had sex once in an exclusive relationship. She showed interest in me, let me know that I was the only one she was dating, and had a consistent history following this pattern. This consistency showed me that she was genuine and was not simply trying to tease me/play a game. Other women that I think fall into such a category are Elswyth and, perhaps, Anela.

 

Sex is not the end all be all of a relationship and a woman showing me that she is an adult that would like to get to know me and following through with that is very different from a woman that wants me to wait to 'prove myself' while she went home with random bartender the week before because he was hot and not marriage material. While women want men to to court them and wait for them to be ready for sex, they make no attempt to prove their interest in the man. Not to pick on the OP, but I do remember a time when an ex-bf of hers suggested taking things slow/no sex and she posted contemplating sleeping with an FWB behind his back until that period ended. Now, she is posting about men pushing for sex when she is not ready. Do you see how one behavior is no better than the other?

[threebyfate]

Wow, so it's all about you and if she bangs other guys, you deserve to bang her too. Talk about your ego speaking where you've tied together self-entitlement with self-esteem with morality.

 

This is reminiscent of another member whose g/f had anal sex with every other boyfriend but him. Didn't matter to him that she hated it every time. The only thing that mattered was that he too deserved anal sex from her.

 

In either situation, both of you guys are viewing a woman as undeserving of making decisions about her body, that she owes you the service of her body since she did it for others.

 

There isn't an analogy I can come up with that encompasses how truly self-entitled and selfish this attitude is towards women and THEIR bodies.

 

Unbelievable.

[Kofybean]

Some friends and I were talking and we've all experienced this. Dating a guy and having them be frustrated because we haven't had sex, though we've been otherwise physically intimate. Not consciously teasing; it's mostly because we're just not comfortable with that stage yet for whatever reason. And these men resent that we don't trust them enough. They'll see you less often and make it seem like the only reason they're coming around is in hopes of 'finally' getting some. It's like they feel they can't--or they just won't--control themselves; they'll use their sexual frustration as an excuse to not hang out as much.

 

Any other women here gone through this? Men, care to chime in with your thoughts?

 

I personally don't think it's worth dealing with this type of man. I feel guilty about waiting even though I have my reasons for doing so, and that's not right. I feel like I'm being pressured with passive-aggressive games.

 

 

Maybe I just missed it... but you did not give a solution to what you want them to do.

 

He wants sex, you don't want sex... so you want him to do what?

[Kofybean]

...This is reminiscent of another member whose g/f had anal sex with every other boyfriend but him...

 

She fulfilled their desires, but not his. How is that hard to understand?

[Sanman]

Wow, so it's all about you and if she bangs other guys, you deserve to bang her too. Talk about your ego speaking where you've tied together self-entitlement with self-esteem with morality.

 

This is reminiscent of another member whose g/f had anal sex with every other boyfriend but him. Didn't matter to him that she hated it every time. The only thing that mattered was that he too deserved anal sex from her.

 

In either situation, both of you guys are viewing a woman as undeserving of making decisions about her body, that she owes you the service of her body since she did it for others.

 

There isn't an analogy I can come up with that encompasses how truly self-entitled and selfish this attitude is towards women and THEIR bodies.

 

Unbelievable.

 

If that is all you got from everything I wrote, then I really can't help you. I never said I deserved to bang anybody. I simply said that when a woman has inconsistent standards it really takes away from the argument that she is simply trying to protect herself. Rather, it suggests that she is playing a pointless game or putting on a facade for my benefit. As ninja pajamas alluded to, you feel that having any expectation of a woman's behavior means that a man is trying to control a woman. Wrong. If you are an adult capable of setting a standard and following through that is fine. If you are a mess that is making up rules as you go ,it is not. Yes I know, I am a horrible, controlling person for simply expecting a woman to be straight forward and act like an adult rather than a fickle child.

[threebyfate]

If that is all you got from everything I wrote, then I really can't help you. I never said I deserved to bang anybody. I simply said that when a woman has inconsistent standards it really takes away from the argument that she is simply trying to protect herself. Rather, it suggests that she is playing a pointless game or putting on a facade for my benefit. As ninja pajamas alluded to, you feel that having any expectation of a woman's behavior means that a man is trying to control a woman. Wrong. If you are an adult capable of setting a standard and following through that is fine. If you are a mess that is making up rules as you go ,it is not. Yes I know, I am a horrible, controlling person for simply expecting a woman to be straight forward and act like an adult rather than a fickle child.

Saying "no" when she's not prepared to have sex with a guy is an adult decision. Suggesting that men are entitled to bang her since she slept with 15 other guys is part of the entitlement mindset that goes with rape culture.

[Sanman]

Saying "no" when she's not prepared to have sex with a guy is an adult decision. Suggesting that men are entitled to bang her since she slept with 15 other guys is part of the entitlement mindset that goes with rape culture.

 

 

Read my post again. I never said that she said 'no' in a serious sense because she was not prepared to sleep with me. Rather she stated that she would have slept with me (and judged my character) had I pushed for sex on the first date after she (in a full consenting manner) had engaged in foreplay. She did this until the fourth date. In this way, she was playing a game and leaving all of the responsibility on the relationship on me. As I mentioned, I find nothing wrong with someone who states their intentions ahead of time and follows through. Teasing a guy, leading him on that sex may happen, and then judging his reaction is in no way adult. Your comment on rape culture tells everything I need to know about your bias in this conversation.

 

Out of curiousity TBF, what is your relationship status?

[threebyfate]

Read my post again. I never said that she said 'no' in a serious sense because she was not prepared to sleep with me. Rather she stated that she would have slept with me (and judged my character) had I pushed for sex on the first date after she (in a full consenting manner) had engaged in foreplay. She did this until the fourth date. In this way, she was playing a game and leaving all of the responsibility on the relationship on me. As I mentioned, I find nothing wrong with someone who states their intentions ahead of time and follows through. Teasing a guy, leading him on that sex may happen, and then judging his reaction is in no way adult. Your comment on rape culture tells everything I need to know about your bias in this conversation.

Even if she said "no" just prior to penetration or even in the midst of penetration, "no" means "no". The rest is irrelevant.

 

If you allowed all your exes to punch you in the face as hard as they wanted but you failed to allow your girlfriend to do so, would your current girlfriend be entitled to punch you in the face?

[Sanman]

Even if she said "no" just prior to penetration or even in the midst of penetration, "no" means "no". The rest is irrelevant.

 

If you allowed all your exes to punch you in the face as hard as they wanted but you failed to allow your girlfriend to do so, would your current girlfriend be entitled to punch you in the face?

 

 

Again, no one but you is making this a rape issue. No one said that she does not have the right to say no. However, that does not mean that doing such a thing is the action of a mature person that makes good decisions. I am allowed to judge her as being a mess and be annoyed that she is messing with my emotions.

 

If I were allowing women to punch me in the face, the mature decision would be forgo a relationship and seek professional help to work on the reasons I allow women to treat me that way rather than jump into another relationship and use an innnocent person to work out my problems. That is what a mature adult does.

 

You didn't answer my question about your relationship status.

[threebyfate]

Again, no one but you is making this a rape issue. No one said that she does not have the right to say no. However, that does not mean that doing such a thing is the action of a mature person that makes good decisions. I am allowed to judge her as being a mess and be annoyed that she is messing with my emotions.

 

If I were allowing women to punch me in the face, the mature decision would be forgo a relationship and seek professional help to work on the reasons I allow women to treat me that way rather than jump into another relationship and use an innnocent person to work out my problems. That is what a mature adult does.

So you're saying that no one has the right to change themselves which includes their morals?

 

You didn't answer my question about your relationship status.

Happily married for almost 3 years now.

[joystickd]

 

Any idea how ridiculous this sounds? Women enter dating emotionally and men enter dating emotionless? Like who wants to enter dating with no emotions? Robots?

 

And one more time, "yeah, I enter into relationships for the regular sex". The actual person is meaningless.

I didn't mean enter dating with emotions or emotionless. Please think before you speak. I was talking about the emotions for the three date rule. Damn I can see someone is emotional. I see with some of the women on here it's a "Why don't men act more like us?" and "Why don't women act more like men?". It's just an incompatibility issue. The man and woman are looking for two different things at the time. It's not that the actual person is meaningless. The problem is men and women see sex, dating and relationships differently. How many men do you honestly know that will go through the hoops for some of you women and wait while you withhold? How would you feel if you went to a hot dog stand for a date and women before you he took them to an expensive restaurant? I think the problem with a lot of guys is a perceived inconsistency. They think if you are into waiting everyone should wait it's not a pick and choose. I could care less because I will move on and find someone more compatible with me.

[Els]

I think most young women don't understand that sex is the main reason most young men are prompted to have relationships. Some think men are mainly looking for companionship, someone that "gets them", someone that cares about them, and that sex is just the fun bonus. For many men, sex is the main course, and companionship is the bonus. Often, especially with young people, the basic motivations for seeking out a relationship are just different. Since he views things from his perspective, he's feeling entitled to sex because that is a huge part of why he's there. I don't think most men are maliciously looking to use a woman, but he expects a mutually satisying sexual relationship and assumes that she wants the same.

 

I think it comes down to not understanding the motivations and vulnerabilities opposite gender, and also not believing the motivations of the opposite gender once they are explained. Women won't ever truly realize how strong a man's sexual urge is unless she takes testosterone, and men rarely understand the vulnerable & emotionally powerless feeling that sex too soon often creates in a woman. Because of the unwillingness to put ourselves in the other gender's shoes, women end up feeling used and men end up feeling controlled, regardless of the sincere reasons men push for sex and women hold back.

 

Great post, Quiet Storm. I found it very insightful, though I would beg to differ on one point - the assumption that all (or most) men are 'biologically' wired to seek sex ASAP as the main course of a R. IMO, this is more cultural than anything else - there were periods in history where men had to marry to have sex, unless they visited a prostitute, and not all men by a long shot visited prostitutes or could even afford them. Currently, some cultures involve a long period of waiting for intercourse as well, oftentimes up to marriage, or at least years. Yet some of those men are perfectly capable of waiting for their to-be-wives, and of enjoying other aspects of the relationship (companionship, etc) in the meantime. This may sound foreign to those of the 'instant sex' culture, but it really exists. Are those men not men, do they not have the same hormones and biological makeup? They are exactly the same biologically - they only differ in terms of culture and upbringing. And that makes all the difference.

 

Now, I am consistent. I don't look for sex before the third date and that is because I am looking for progress in the relationship. I have no interest in making any more of an emotional or financial investment than necessary for someone who is not that interested in me. With my current gf, on the other hand, I waited months for sex without getting angry. Why? Because she only had sex once in an exclusive relationship. She showed interest in me, let me know that I was the only one she was dating, and had a consistent history following this pattern. This consistency showed me that she was genuine and was not simply trying to tease me/play a game. Other women that I think fall into such a category are Elswyth and, perhaps, Anela.

 

Very much so.

 

Sex is not the end all be all of a relationship and a woman showing me that she is an adult that would like to get to know me and following through with that is very different from a woman that wants me to wait to 'prove myself' while she went home with random bartender the week before because he was hot and not marriage material. While women want men to to court them and wait for them to be ready for sex, they make no attempt to prove their interest in the man. Not to pick on the OP, but I do remember a time when an ex-bf of hers suggested taking things slow/no sex and she posted contemplating sleeping with an FWB behind his back until that period ended. Now, she is posting about men pushing for sex when she is not ready. Do you see how one behavior is no better than the other?

 

FWIW, I think everyone still has the right to decide when, where, and if they have sex regardless of sexual history, simply because they have sole ownership of their body. But I can certainly understand why a prospective partner would think twice about being with someone who has demonstrated an affinity towards casual sex with others but wants to go slow with them. I don't think the OP does much casual sex, though, the FWB thing seemed to be a one-off confused-youth-experimentation thing during a turbulent period in her life.

[maybealone]

So if I find out that my boyfriend waited a year to have sex with his high school sweetheart, I should expect him to wait that long for me? Because according to many posts her, we are not supposed to grow, evolve, or change our expectations when it comes to sex.

[maybealone]

I guarantee you it wasn't him that wanted to wait. Nobody has said you can't grow, evolve or change you expectations, we're saying nobody is obligated to abide by your timeline.

 

You can want to wait for as long as you'd like, likewise he's free to move on if he doesn't want to wait.

 

Oh, absolutely. But I was responding to those who think that once a woman sleeps with a man on the first date, she is obligated to sleep with all men on the first date.

 

I am guessing the same doesn't apply to men -- that just because they waited for one woman means they have to wait for all women. Actually I have read posts here that say basically that -- guys posting about how they used to wait but it never worked out so now they push for sex sooner. In that same way, a woman should be allowed to decide that sex too soon hasn't worked for her in the past and she should be allowed to change how she wants to handle relationships.

[Sanman]

FWIW, I think everyone still has the right to decide when, where, and if they have sex regardless of sexual history, simply because they have sole ownership of their body. But I can certainly understand why a prospective partner would think twice about being with someone who has demonstrated an affinity towards casual sex with others but wants to go slow with them. I don't think the OP does much casual sex, though, the FWB thing seemed to be a one-off confused-youth-experimentation thing during a turbulent period in her life.

 

Agreed everyone does have the right to choose what they want to do. I am not suggesting otherwise. However, if you have that history and simply decide that this guy should wait because you are trying to work out your problems, are unsure of him, or are playing games I think he has the right to be unhappy. If you aren't ready to have sex, then don't take it in that direction and then back off or string the guy along because you can't make a decision about him. Meet him out for a date and make your intentions clear. No need to bring him home and ask to stop after half your clothes are off. If you have a habit of one night stands (like my example) your way of relating during dates is that of a person with who sleeps with men quickly. Without working on yourself all withholding does is send a man the same signals that you send a ONS and then tell him to back off. In a similar fashion, it would be mean for a man to tell a woman that you are going somewhere special for a date and to dress up and then take her to a hot dog stand. Give the person context and consistency in your actions and behaviors.

[lino]

I've personally never had the problem of being made to wait. All the girls I've slept with were as keen as I was, sometimes more!!

 

 

Not to pick on the OP, but I do remember a time when an ex-bf of hers suggested taking things slow/no sex and she posted contemplating sleeping with an FWB behind his back until that period ended. Now, she is posting about men pushing for sex when she is not ready. Do you see how one behavior is no better than the other?

 

 

Very good point!

 

I'd bet a lot of coin that the very same women who demand a man waits an arbitrary amount of time to have sex, would also be the ones to write a guy off as gay/asexual/un-confident/un-manly/etc if they were made to wait for sex by a bloke.

 

I believe that's diouble standard # 347653248756342875634875

[Revolver]

Dont be the guy that had to wait till the year of the rat to sleep with a woman and go through hoops while everyone else before him had sex on the first date or no dates at all

[Ninjainpajamas]

I wanted to fuel some of the fire with my initial post and shift the direction of the thread, I was looking out for a specific reply that kind of broke it down in plain terms...which should be common sense but Is still likely something both genders do not realize, and QuietStorm was the one to lay that out.

 

Men and women are approaching dating and relationships from opposite sides of the spectrum, and most do not realize each others perspective.

 

Women are concerned about emotional attachment, and they're highly aware that for most part, sex adds another layer of bond and attachment.

 

They want to get to know, trust and feel comfortable around the man, regardless of how much they actually know about this guy and his agenda, If he can achieve that then he can get a pass rather quickly.

 

Women are highly emotional beings, which is why many red flags turn into "challenges", any obstacles are conquered with irrational "hope"...once a woman is invested she has a very hard time pulling herself away from a man she is really interested in, and often times just a man she just continuously has sex with, which is her way of trying to build a relationship with him not just have sex. Which is why the guy that was just "ok" on the first, second and third date suddenly becomes "could this be the one!".

 

But really, women know when they're going to sleep with a man and make an attempt of locking him in. Which is why she doesn't want to make it too easy and give him too much too fast, she wants to play It off and not sure her true level of interest and wants to feel secure in the mans emotional investment and interest as well.

 

The reality is once a woman opens the floodgates of who she is emotionally, then there's nothing stopping her...it's just a downhill avalanche of compounded emotions that give her less and less control as the "romance" ensues, and then depending on the guy...she may be powerless to get herself out of it...regardless of how retarded the relationship becomes because at that time Is when a man starts to show his true character...If he was being true the entire time then not much changes, IF he was not, then everything slowly starts to change like a fog creeping in under the night sky!

 

But by then she's pretty much screwed If she's really into the guy, now she's gotta go through the process just to get out of it...and which usually ends with him leaving her out of a disinterest of long-term commitment. Which is why women try to throw a wrench in this whole process to prevent from happening.

 

Most of what is being done by women is protection, protection over their most sensitive emotions...which is why they don't think often about what a man is thinking or going through, they just can't...unless a woman can relate to it emotionally then her understanding often is hard to connect...even if they can provide support and nurturing. The right man will always trigger that reaction out of a woman even If other men have not.

 

Women are highly emotionally erratic to men...which is why most men have a hard time understanding whether she's coming or going, why she does this or that. And women are often insecure and seeking external validation, and sometimes instant gratification in things that bring pleasure.

 

Understanding women isn't always that hard, men just have to learn to stop using their brains to do it and especially taking everything they do personal, because for women it's just a long windy road of a learning process...learning to protect themselves, what really makes them feel better in the long-term, because they have to experience such highs and lows which develop fear of taking emotional risk...which is what they do almost every time they take a risk sleeping with a guy they really like and want something to come to fruition, like a relationship/marriage.

[Dafa]

Those guys are angry with their girlfriends not because they slept with other men - but because it took THEM so long to sleep with her, while she let other guys sex her earlier.

 

To me, a silly thing to be angry about.

 

Owing to your self-confidence (which btw, from what i read in these forums, must not have been easy for you to acquire and maintain), you see this as silly, but please speak only for yourself.

Many men in that situation feel inferior to the ones that pulled it off. They feel that if the other dude were to show up, they would be immediately relegated. They feel that they are not a choice, but rather a lack of options. Would you like to feel this way?

And i would argue this is human nature, where some can suppress it more effectively than others.

[maybealone]

Many men in that situation feel inferior to the ones that pulled it off. They feel that if the other dude were to show up, they would be immediately relegated. They feel that they are not a choice, but rather a lack of options. Would you like to feel this way?

 

That's interesting to hear that's how some men think, because in my experience it's the complete opposite. When a woman waits, it is often because she sees the man as someone she wants to know and maybe have a relationship with, and doesn't want him to see her as a ONS.

[verhrzn]

That's interesting to hear that's how some men think, because in my experience it's the complete opposite. When a woman waits, it is often because she sees the man as someone she wants to know and maybe have a relationship with, and doesn't want him to see her as a ONS.

 

Interesting point. I sometimes wonder if these same guys who are complaining about waiting for sex, would really mind if girls just had a one night stand with them and then never called them again. Cause, honestly, the sooner I have sex with a guy, I find the LESS I want to date him.

 

But I guess guys don't really mind if they just get constant access to sex and no relationships, because yay sex!

[verhrzn]

So, why did you make that topic about getting insight into male sexuality? Sounds to me like you've got it figured out.

 

How bout instead of a snarky response you actually respond to my point? Especially since I wasn't even the first one to make it.

[Mme. Chaucer]

The core of the question the OP asks is the "getting mad" part.

 

Everybody has their opinions and really, in a perfect world, we all are going to end up having sex and / or in relationships with people with whom we have mutual respect. That includes respect for boundaries and does NOT include getting mad, self righteous and pouty when when things aren't going our way.

 

Nobody is really entitled to anything except the freedom to try to find what we want in this life.

 

A person who does not feel like beginning the sexual part of a relationship needs to feel 100% confident about maintaining that as long as they need to. If the other person involved gets mad or pouts, I think that it's a good sign that they need to be dumped.

 

If a person needs to move a relationship into the SEX zone and they other person is not ready, whether they are being true to themselves or "playing games" does not matter. The person needing sex now is responsible for deciding whether adjusting their needs and pace to the other's is worthwhile or not, and proceed accordingly.

 

Getting mad? Pouting? They have no place.

[Dafa]

Oh, absolutely. But I was responding to those who think that once a woman sleeps with a man on the first date, she is obligated to sleep with all men on the first date.

 

(...)

 

I don't think anyone is saying that. No is saying she is obligated due to past practice. What people are saying (i think) is that, if she is not coherent with her past behaviour, then something is not right... In this context, what stops a man from thinking:

"What don't i have, that the other guy does?";

 

"What if she reconnects with that guy? Given that she had sex with him much earlier, that means that her chemistry with him is much bigger than with me and therefore i would be left standing".

 

These are two examples that have been confided to me by friends and i'm pretty sure alot more things go through a man's mind in these circumstances. Fortunately, i never had to endure this situation... Thankfully.

With this said, i personally don't mind waiting at all. But this act of waiting is an "act of faith" in the sense that the man assumes the woman is being truthful in her intentions. As such, the woman's past may provide credibility for the man to be willing to make this "leap of faith".

Not sure if i'm making myself understood.

[InJest]

They want to get to know, trust and feel comfortable around the man, regardless of how much they actually know about this guy and his agenda, If he can achieve that then he can get a pass rather quickly...

 

and then depending on the guy...she may be powerless to get herself out of it...regardless of how retarded the relationship becomes because at that time Is when a man starts to show his true character...If he was being true the entire time then not much changes, IF he was not, then everything slowly starts to change like a fog creeping in under the night sky!

 

I agree with pretty much the whole post, but these two points especially. Making women feel comfortable is so key, and if you can do that, no matter your true intentions, you're in. I respect a woman who genuinely wants to wait, but still makes me feel like things are progressing and she's interested. If I feel a girl is playing games when making me wait, well, patience is a virtue, and once it pays off, I may **** her for a few weeks or however long she's willing to put up with being a booty call, and my waning contact. In the event that she then wants to wait me out, I'll probably go with it until I find someone I like better or she gets too annoying. I don't do that anymore, but the ones I did it to deserved it.