Men getting 'mad' at women for not having sex

[ThaWholigan]

That's the thing. If there's no fire why would a guy want to hang around?

 

Nobody wants to feel like they're coaxing an unwilling partner into having sex with them.

I can't stand this poster, but his last sentence is correct.

 

It's why a guy should learn how to seduce IMO.

[verhrzn]

I can't stand this poster, but his last sentence is correct.

 

It's why a guy should learn how to seduce IMO.

 

No, nobody should have to coax someone into sex. Maybe instead the guy should just trust the girl, and give her time, and not try to coax or force her into anything. Ya know, be patient about sex. *Gasp* the horror!

[ThaWholigan]

No, nobody should have to coax someone into sex. Maybe instead the guy should just trust the girl, and give her time, and not try to coax or force her into anything. Ya know, be patient about sex. *Gasp* the horror!

It depends. If he doesn't think waiting is worth it, it's better he moves on. Seduction is tailored to waiting too, by the way .

[Feelin Frisky]

It's important for women to realize that sex isn't just sex--it's not an intellectual construct with tidy borders and definitions that you can check a "yes or no box" to and just go about other business if the boxes don't aggregate that sex is going to happen. It's instead a great big and erratic animal DYNAMIC where some times we feel something will be terribly missed if we don't have it now. Gentleman, civilized men who are not criminals accept that that no has to be the answer sometimes in a relationship (or a seemingly budding relationship) but women are the same species and most I've known sexually understand that this happens--it probably happens in them too. But all of us being individuals there are some who don't see it this way. I'm not a man who plays games with women or makes them jump through hoops before I deem them worthy of sex, so I can't answer for that side of the equation, but there are women who do live in their own worlds where sex is some kind of poker chip in a game that's strictly in their heads. And it gets irritating after a while. Sane men who are decent guys will walk--it's no fun fighting to get a sexual accommodation. That's very unflattering to a man's ego. He wants to be wanted and not "put up with".

 

So, as a man who has been an adult for more than 30 years I can tell you from experience that I have bailed on some very beautiful women who just didn't seem to get it--putting out when for whatever reason they felt like it, and then stringing me along like a dog as if I'm just there to give unconditional loyalty. Fck that noise. I want to be with someone who gets it and rolls with it--and I promise the same (doing things she wants whther I'm in the mood or not.)

[Ninjainpajamas]

And what about those of us who aren't that experienced, who don't often date, have never had casual sex? I don't understand why it's so easy for people to just have sex - oh, another guy or girl, another roll in the hay. It's weird to me that it's expected so soon.

 

Then I think a man would very much respect that.

 

It's the double-standard and hypocrisy that women impose on men and their contradictory actions that send men into a spiral is misunderstanding and feeling mislead. They start to make it about them instead of you (much like women do).

 

Men become become often insecure, demotivated, and fear or rejection or being strung along, much like a woman does If a man is not persistent and reciprocates her feedback.

 

They can question debate whether If they were good-looking enough, sexy enough, turned you on enough...maybe you would have slept with them already, because at the end of the day men are worried about not feeling good enough often as well.

 

This why men who are "players" or more like it, tend to have their confidence boosted by their success with women, while on the other hand the "nice guys" tend to be in utter frustration of jumping through hoops but they turn left to right and see the jerks succeeding.

 

Plus many women multi-date and juggle a number of men interests and gauge their efforts, those guys obviously want to feel like they are the "best" option...sex is something that will validate they are getting somewhere and have an edge over the competition....assuming you aren't sleeping with all men, usually women are sleeping with one of them.

 

No guy wants to be THAT guy that's putting in all of his effort to be strung along either. Nobody want's to be the "nice guy" among men.

 

Men put in the amount of effort they feel they HAVE TO.

[Anela]

It's important for women to realize that sex isn't just sex--it's not an intellectual construct with tidy borders and definitions that you can check a "yes or no box" to and just go about other business if the boxes don't aggregate that sex is going to happen. It's instead a great big and erratic animal DYNAMIC where some times we feel something will be terribly missed if we don't have it now. Gentleman, civilized men who are not criminals accept that that no has to be the answer sometimes in a relationship (or a seemingly budding relationship) but women are the same species and most I've known sexually understand that this happens--it probably happens in them too. But all of us being individuals there are some who don't see it this way. I'm not a man who plays games with women or makes them jump through hoops before I deem them worthy of sex, so I can't answer for that side of the equation, but there are women who do live in their own worlds where sex is some kind of poker chip in a game that's strictly in their heads. And it gets irritating after a while. Sane men who are decent guys will walk--it's no fun fighting to get a sexual accommodation. That's very unflattering to a man's ego. He wants to be wanted and not "put up with".

 

So, as a man who has been an adult for more than 30 years I can tell you from experience that I have bailed on some very beautiful women who just didn't seem to get it--putting out when for whatever reason they felt like it, and then stringing me along like a dog as if I'm just there to give unconditional loyalty. Fck that noise. I want to be with someone who gets it and rolls with it--and I promise the same (doing things she wants whther I'm in the mood or not.)

 

No poker chips or hoops here. I have no interest in dating anymore. I'm tired of feeling like some sort of freak.

[sweetjasmine]

And what about those of us who aren't that experienced, who don't often date, have never had casual sex? I don't understand why it's so easy for people to just have sex - oh, another guy or girl, another roll in the hay. It's weird to me that it's expected so soon.

 

Exactly. I've personally never had sex outside a relationship - no FWB, no ONS, none of that. I've never multi-dated, either. Some of us just aren't wired to want or be comfortable with that sort of thing, full stop. For some of us, it takes time before we feel comfortable being completely intimate with someone else, regardless of how much desire and chemistry there is. Some of us just happen to move at a slower pace.

 

If a man were to make assumptions about my current and prior behavior ("well in college she probably spread her legs for some hot dude she met at a bar two hours before like all those other college girls! ") and if he were to judge me without actually knowing who I am, then it'd be better for both of us if he went along his merry way and left me alone. My fiance and I are both slow pace type of people, and everything worked out well for us.

[Quiet Storm]

I think most young women don't understand that sex is the main reason most young men are prompted to have relationships. Some think men are mainly looking for companionship, someone that "gets them", someone that cares about them, and that sex is just the fun bonus. For many men, sex is the main course, and companionship is the bonus. Often, especially with young people, the basic motivations for seeking out a relationship are just different. Since he views things from his perspective, he's feeling entitled to sex because that is a huge part of why he's there. I don't think most men are maliciously looking to use a woman, but he expects a mutually satisying sexual relationship and assumes that she wants the same.

 

Men don't always get the complicated reasons why women do things. It's hard for them to understand that "waiting" is often a woman's way of self protection, it doesn't mean she's not attracted. It doesn't mean she doesn't have a sex drive. It's just that sex can be emotionally dangerous for us. Most women don't want to risk the emotional involvement that sex often brings, unless we feel emotionally safe & invested. From a man's perspective, they will often assume that if she holds out on sex, she's not attracted, or it's some kind of control game. His desire isn't wrong or predatory, he's just feeling so attracted and wants to express that physically, which is his natural way of expressing those feelings.

 

The urge to be with his woman sexually is a very strong one, and not having that outlet can create frustration a man. I don't think its so much that he feels entitled, but controlled. As in "We enjoy each other, are attracted to each other but I can't express it in the way I am naturally prompted to. She's blocking me from expressing my desire." It creates frustration because he needs an outlet for those sexual feelings and wants that outlet to be her. Since she seems to like him, wants to spend time with him, etc. he doesn't understand why she won't. Remember, the main reason most young guys want to be in a relationship is sex. It's easy to see how he could feel that women are the same, and be confused or assume you aren't attracted when you don't want to. He thinks she's as horny as he is and is holding out simply because she has the power, and he doesn't consider that she is building the relationship, getting familiar with him, allowing herself to be vulnerable in order to be comfortable enough for sex, because he would never do it like that. Most men don't need to be comfortable for sex and sex doesn't make them feel vulnerable, so those reasons for waiting are just foreign to them and sound like BS (although we know it's not).

 

I think it comes down to not understanding the motivations and vulnerabilities opposite gender, and also not believing the motivations of the opposite gender once they are explained. Women won't ever truly realize how strong a man's sexual urge is unless she takes testosterone, and men rarely understand the vulnerable & emotionally powerless feeling that sex too soon often creates in a woman. Because of the unwillingness to put ourselves in the other gender's shoes, women end up feeling used and men end up feeling controlled, regardless of the sincere reasons men push for sex and women hold back.

[Imajerk17]

I think most young women don't understand that sex is the main reason most young men are prompted to have relationships. Some think men are mainly looking for companionship, someone that "gets them", someone that cares about them, and that sex is just the fun bonus. For many men, sex is the main course, and companionship is the bonus. Often, especially with young people, the basic motivations for seeking out a relationship are just different. Since he views things from his perspective, he's feeling entitled to sex because that is a huge part of why he's there. I don't think most men are maliciously looking to use a woman, but he expects a mutually satisying sexual relationship and assumes that she wants the same.

 

Men don't always get the complicated reasons why women do things. It's hard for them to understand that "waiting" is often a woman's way of self protection, it doesn't mean she's not attracted. It doesn't mean she doesn't have a sex drive. It's just that sex can be emotionally dangerous for us. Most women don't want to risk the emotional involvement that sex often brings, unless we feel emotionally safe & invested. From a man's perspective, they will often assume that if she holds out on sex, she's not attracted, or it's some kind of control game. His desire isn't wrong or predatory, he's just feeling so attracted and wants to express that physically, which is his natural way of expressing those feelings.

 

The urge to be with his woman sexually is a very strong one, and not having that outlet can create frustration a man. I don't think its so much that he feels entitled, but controlled. As in "We enjoy each other, are attracted to each other but I can't express it in the way I am naturally prompted to. She's blocking me from expressing my desire." It creates frustration because he needs an outlet for those sexual feelings and wants that outlet to be her. Since she seems to like him, wants to spend time with him, etc. he doesn't understand why she won't. Remember, the main reason most young guys want to be in a relationship is sex. It's easy to see how he could feel that women are the same, and be confused or assume you aren't attracted when you don't want to. He thinks she's as horny as he is and is holding out simply because she has the power, and he doesn't consider that she is building the relationship, getting familiar with him, allowing herself to be vulnerable in order to be comfortable enough for sex, because he would never do it like that. Most men don't need to be comfortable for sex and sex doesn't make them feel vulnerable, so those reasons for waiting are just foreign to them and sound like BS (although we know it's not).

 

I think it comes down to not understanding the motivations and vulnerabilities opposite gender, and also not believing the motivations of the opposite gender once they are explained. Women won't ever truly realize how strong a man's sexual urge is unless she takes testosterone, and men rarely understand the vulnerable & emotionally powerless feeling that sex too soon often creates in a woman. Because of the unwillingness to put ourselves in the other gender's shoes, women end up feeling used and men end up feeling controlled, regardless of the sincere reasons men push for sex and women hold back.

 

QuietStorm--great post, as usual. I love reading your take on situations.

 

There is something else though. Very often, we men do want a relationship with you. We as men know intuitively that sex is what bonds a woman to a man. And that if you are seeing other guys, the one you will end up with is likely the one you have sex with first. So we will push for sex to lock you in, to ensure that you will indeed stick around.

 

On a very related note, we men push for sex because on some level that is what we know you expect from us. We get that we might be "friend-zoned" if we don't, with you feeling undesired by us and/or thinking we're not interested or that we are gay....

[phineas]

Then I think a man would very much respect that.

 

It's the double-standard and hypocrisy that women impose on men and their contradictory actions that send men into a spiral is misunderstanding and feeling mislead. They start to make it about them instead of you (much like women do).

 

Men become become often insecure, demotivated, and fear or rejection or being strung along, much like a woman does If a man is not persistent and reciprocates her feedback.

 

They can question debate whether If they were good-looking enough, sexy enough, turned you on enough...maybe you would have slept with them already, because at the end of the day men are worried about not feeling good enough often as well.

 

This why men who are "players" or more like it, tend to have their confidence boosted by their success with women, while on the other hand the "nice guys" tend to be in utter frustration of jumping through hoops but they turn left to right and see the jerks succeeding.

 

Plus many women multi-date and juggle a number of men interests and gauge their efforts, those guys obviously want to feel like they are the "best" option...sex is something that will validate they are getting somewhere and have an edge over the competition....assuming you aren't sleeping with all men, usually women are sleeping with one of them.

 

No guy wants to be THAT guy that's putting in all of his effort to be strung along either. Nobody want's to be the "nice guy" among men.

 

Men put in the amount of effort they feel they HAVE TO.

 

Honestly, I think most of them get this. I think they know exactly what their doing but the whole "who, me?" is so second nature to the types that do they really don't think their doing anything wrong or convince themselves their doing nothing wrong.

 

This is why my rule is not to answer to a woman until we are having sex regularly. Actually I should say not until she is having sex with me enthusiastically. It doesn't necessarily mean i'm going out with other women, but she's not a priority & probably won't see me more than once a week & won't be getting much in the way of extended texting sessions or phone time.

Nor is she privy to what i'm doing, where I am or who i'm with on a daily basis.

 

And that is something I've noticed about time wasters. They want to make sure I don't find a woman who is actually interested in me because that means i'll stop paying attention to her.

[joystickd]

There's a third date rule for sex started by PUAs. Young guys are lapping it up.

 

If a guy walks because he feels he's waited too long. Oh well.

I laugh at the way women react to the three date rule. Most see it as 3 dates close together then sex. Women react emotionally instead of thinking they could spread out the dates and use the time between dates to get to know each other whether its talking on the phone or texting.

 

I'm not one to get mad if I don't have sex within a specific amount of time. I just find someone willing lol. Men don't want to feel that their time is wasted. I don't want to go out on several dates and hear problems for several days or months not to have any reciprocation. I don't want to invest time money and feelings on something that isn't reciprocating or withholding for their own perceived benefit. Yeah that is what it is and don't say otherwise women.

[joystickd]

QuietStorm--great post, as usual. I love reading your take on situations.

 

There is something else though. Very often, we men do want a relationship with you. We as men know intuitively that sex is what bonds a woman to a man. And that if you are seeing other guys, the one you will end up with is likely the one you have sex with first. So we will push for sex to lock you in, to ensure that you will indeed stick around.

 

On a very related note, we men push for sex because on some level that is what we know you expect from us. We get that we might be "friend-zoned" if we don't, with you feeling undesired by us and/or thinking we're not interested or that we are gay....

I think 100% of men agree with this statement.

[carhill]

OP, I can't ever recall getting mad at a woman for not having sex, though I was often annoyed with them mind-fµcking me. I don't ever recall 'waiting around' to have sex, rather seeking to grow what I believed, or they led me to believe, was a healthy relationship. I see 'blue balls' (natural sexual frustration in a man) as part of the burden of being a man. In the scheme of life, it can be dealt with and really isn't that important, to me anyway. Healthy relationships, OTOH, are.

 

If a man 'gets mad' when a woman makes a choice to decline sexual intimacy with him, perhaps it's better to move on. It's a miss. Men should also proactively move on from similarly mis-matched dynamics. Life lesson #390250a

[xxoo]

There is no reason to have sex with a partner for the first time if you are not ready.

 

If he chooses not to wait for you to be ready, good information. Move on.

 

But guys--plenty of women do feel sexual attraction, and desire sex, but need some time to build trust, especially if you were near strangers before beginning to date. Is that really difficult to understand?

 

On the flip side, why don't you guys need to build trust first?

[carhill]

On the flip side, why don't you guys need to build trust first?

 

I don't exemplify that style, preferring to establish a trusting and loving relationship first, but can explain it from a male POV:

 

It's really simple: Competition. Male competitors who don't care about such matters, particularly those with a lot of sexual experience, know what women respond to and can compress the process to bond the woman to them. I've seen this in practice for decades, and have lost a number of dating partners to such dynamics, of course learning about the realities later. It simply became a matter of accepting that the vast majority of potentials would be lost in such a way, or changing my intrinsic style of interaction, or opting out. After enough experience, relationships and a marriage, I simply have opted out, at least for as long as I continue to live in this demographic. Those who do not respect and learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I learned, though probably a bit late.

 

That said, the man who doesn't care about trust or relationship formation as a prerequisite for sex should not be getting 'mad' at the woman who chooses to not have sex with him. He should simply move on to one who will. Why waste emotion on a dry hole?

[El Brujo]

the man who doesn't care about trust or relationship formation as a prerequisite for sex should not be getting 'mad' at the woman who chooses to not have sex with him. He should simply move on to one who will. Why waste emotion on a dry hole?

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Why can't he just arrange a hookup or hire a hooker, if he needs a sex fix so damn bad?

[soccerrprp]

There is no reason to have sex with a partner for the first time if you are not ready.

 

On the flip side, why don't you guys need to build trust first?

 

Most men are not wired like this...it seems to me that men, generally, find closeness when physical intimacy has taken place first and not the other way around...or at least some validity.

[xxoo]

Most men are not wired like this...it seems to me that men, generally, find closeness when physical intimacy has taken place first and not the other way around...or at least some validity.

 

So essentially--women are in the tough spot of having sex with men who have no true feelings for them, and hoping that feelings follow....

 

How much physical intimacy is necessary to develop feelings?

[carhill]

Most men are not wired like this...it seems to me that men, generally, find closeness when physical intimacy has taken place first and not the other way around...or at least some validity.

If I were to poll my male friends, most whom have been married now over 20 years, they would agree with you, though perhaps not when their wives were within earshot

 

I've seen enough women like this to know that it's not gender-specific, but the incidence in men is far more common IME.

Edited October 2, 2012 by carhill

[TG1]

Most men are not wired like this...it seems to me that men, generally, find closeness when physical intimacy has taken place first and not the other way around...or at least some validity.

 

Well I am a guy and I will say this, that all men we have needs and those needs definitely need to be fulfilled because let's just say we aren't being fulfilled by our women, that is when we tend to look elsewhere which leads to us cheating due to sexual frustration because women love to play with our minds but at the same time I can sort of understand from the female perspective

[xxoo]

If I were to poll my male friends, most whom have been married now over 20 years, they would agree with you, though perhaps not when their wives were within earshot

 

I've seen enough women like this to know that it's not gender-specific, but the incidence in men is far more common IME.

 

It is common for women to attach deeply after sex, which is a good reason to take some time and determine if he is relationship quality before sex.

 

But I'd guess most women can feel great closeness before physical intimacy, even if they don't need closeness to have physical intimacy.

 

Is the assertion that many men can not feel that closeness without physical intimacy? What about "unrequited love"?

 

Or is a history of unrequited love more often the reason to keep himself from developing feelings, intentionally, before sex?

[TG1]

It is common for women to attach deeply after sex, which is a good reason to take some time and determine if he is relationship quality before sex.

 

But I'd guess most women can feel great closeness before physical intimacy, even if they don't need closeness to have physical intimacy.

 

Is the assertion that many men can not feel that closeness without physical intimacy? What about "unrequited love"?

 

Or is a history of unrequited love more often the reason to keep himself from developing feelings, intentionally, before sex?

 

You bring up a good point

[mortensorchid]

Well, he who is without sin as it says. We get frustrated, it's a blow to our egos no matter what the case may be. Either the person is clueless or they are not being communicated with effectively enough. It happens, but we learn from it. Hopefully at least.

[threebyfate]

Ahh, Loveshack. Why should I expect anything but gender wars and defensiveness from people.Thanks for quoting only a small portion of my post out of context and then becoming outraged by it. Because all women are eminently trustworthy and genuine. Yes, we are talking about penetration. That intimately personal thing that a woman takes seriously, except for when gets drunk and has a ONS, sees a cute guy, or feels like a FWB. Lets not pretend many modern women take sex that seriously or have any sort of 'rule' about waiting. It becomes a completely arbitrary decision where a woman who gave it away last week is now offended a man that is dating her just expects to let her be penetrated. Right. And it just is not about paying. If I am not getting what I want out of dating/relationship, I would be out of there.

There we go. "If she sleeps with another guy, she should be sleeping with me". Any idea how self-entitled this makes you? Any idea how telling your explanation is, in that she's an object for usage where her desires matter little, only your desire to hit it matters?

 

There are genuine women who will show interest and want to wait. As I said in my previous post, if the person comes of as someone that is genuinely not ready to have sex I believe most good men would wait. However, there needs to be enough interest shown and willingness to move the relationship onward in other ways for a guy to wait. Even if a guy thinks that there is long term potential, he won't wait around if he does not see other signs of the possibility a good relationship.

So, in your view, what is the primary reason for you to enter relationships? Might it be sex?

 

If feels like he is being used as a chump, there will be anger/resentment or the man will simply leave.

No one likes to be used. The question is, what's your currency? Rhetorical question since you view your payback in sex.

 

I laugh at the way women react to the three date rule. Most see it as 3 dates close together then sex. Women react emotionally instead of thinking they could spread out the dates and use the time between dates to get to know each other whether its talking on the phone or texting.

Any idea how ridiculous this sounds? Women enter dating emotionally and men enter dating emotionless? Like who wants to enter dating with no emotions? Robots?

 

I'm not one to get mad if I don't have sex within a specific amount of time. I just find someone willing lol. Men don't want to feel that their time is wasted. I don't want to go out on several dates and hear problems for several days or months not to have any reciprocation. I don't want to invest time money and feelings on something that isn't reciprocating or withholding for their own perceived benefit. Yeah that is what it is and don't say otherwise women.

And one more time, "yeah, I enter into relationships for the regular sex". The actual person is meaningless.

[carhill]

Is the assertion that many men can not feel that closeness without physical intimacy? What about "unrequited love"?

 

Or is a history of unrequited love more often the reason to keep himself from developing feelings, intentionally, before sex?

 

I think those are good questions and the answers are found within the life path of the man in question. I personally think timeline is *very* important, especially relevant to FOO and early peer interactions.

 

Both assertions address a person's elemental style of expressing emotion and attaching to other human beings. To discuss them in detail probably would be beyond the scope of this thread.

 

I can offer one observation relevant to the 'getting mad'. Emotional styles trending to the 'unrequited love' realm are markedly different from those of men who get mad at women who refuse them sex. This doesn't mean such men don't experience anger and frustration, but it's about issues other than timely sex.

 

IMO, one has to take a hard look at the male demographic which posts here on LS, myself included, when discussing such topics. Are we really the best examples of 'men' to use for such discussions? IMO, no. Most men I know wouldn't dream of discussing LS-style topics on an online forum. I'm perhaps old enough to reflect upon such paths with a more dispassionate view but, in the final analysis, it's still colored by my own style, which has proven in life to be outlier to most men. I respect that. There was a time when it did make me mad