Author tigressA Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 Now I'm 2.7 times more confused. Ok, if there's a hypothetical example of a couple having oral sex but not penis-in-vagina sex then they are having sex already (the clue is in the name) and I can't see any particular reason why not to have sex of the penis-in-vagina kind real soon now. If there's a couple not having sex at all then both parties should take as long as it takes to be 'ready' to have sex... but personally, when I'm ready to want to keep seeing a woman (perhaps this is a "relationship", but perhaps it isn't yet) then I want to be having sex with her, and if she feels the same way about wanting to keep seeing me then I want her to want to have sex with me. Otherwise, why does she want to keep seeing me, and why would I want to keep seeing her? She could want it too, but still be not completely comfortable with the idea. I had one guy give me the line "Call me when you trust me completely"--he left early because I wouldn't sleep with him that night. And he had been questioning even coming over because I hadn't said we would have sex, that I was ready, etc. So incredibly immature and manipulative.
Eternal Sunshine Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I did "oral only" back in the day when I was a virgin. Not since then. 1
oaks Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 She could want it too, but still be not completely comfortable with the idea. So she doesn't want it.
ThaWholigan Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 She could want it too, but still be not completely comfortable with the idea. I had one guy give me the line "Call me when you trust me completely"--he left early because I wouldn't sleep with him that night. And he had been questioning even coming over because I hadn't said we would have sex, that I was ready, etc. So incredibly immature and manipulative. You could argue if she's not "completely" comfortable with the idea, then she's not that attracted? A loose argument, but I imagine a lot of guys will think that - even if they aren't all about the sex. A guy worth waiting up for would be a guy who is comfortable in the tension so he's not bothered by the waiting. At that point, it will probably be you trying to jump his bones
ThaWholigan Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 So how does one deal with it? And is it even worth dealing with? I personally don't think it is. There's two options. Have sex with him (if you like him enough), or don't and get rid. It's worth dealing with if you think there is more substance there. If he's actively pushing and practically pleading (non-verbally) to sex you, then it's probably turning you off so you might as well not do it. Just don't deal with it, exit.
Author tigressA Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 So she doesn't want it. Well yes, that is the crux. But it's not necessarily for lack of attraction. She could just not totally trust the guy yet. And if all he's doing is throwing out passive-aggressive BS in response instead of trying at all to understand where she's coming from, that's even more reason for her to not trust him. 1
ThaWholigan Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Well yes, that is the crux. But it's not necessarily for lack of attraction. She could just not totally trust the guy yet. And if all he's doing is throwing out passive-aggressive BS in response instead of trying at all to understand where she's coming from, that's even more reason for her to not trust him. The ultimate sh*t test
oaks Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Well yes, that is the crux. But it's not necessarily for lack of attraction. She could just not totally trust the guy yet. And if all he's doing is throwing out passive-aggressive BS in response instead of trying at all to understand where she's coming from, that's even more reason for her to not trust him. Well if there's drama (boys can do drama, too!) then she should be prepared to walk away... but, it sounds like this hypothetical man and woman aren't on the same page... so perhaps that's for the best. Waiting is fine for a while, but only for a while.
EasyHeart Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Some friends and I were talking and we've all experienced this. Dating a guy and having them be frustrated because we haven't had sex, though we've been otherwise physically intimate. Not consciously teasing; it's mostly because we're just not comfortable with that stage yet for whatever reason. And these men resent that we don't trust them enough. They'll see you less often and make it seem like the only reason they're coming around is in hopes of 'finally' getting some. It's like they feel they can't--or they just won't--control themselves; they'll use their sexual frustration as an excuse to not hang out as much. Any other women here gone through this? Men, care to chime in with your thoughts? This sounds pretty normal. The general rule is that the more a man likes a woman, the longer (and more patiently) he'll wait for sex. If he thinks that a woman could be a long-term or permanent partner, then waiting a few weeks or months for sex is no big deal because it's a small part of the anticipated relationship. On the other hand, if he's just looking for a short-term sexual relationship, then waiting any significant period of time for sex is going to be a waste of his time. If your plan is to screw a girl for a few weeks or months, then it's a huge waste of time, effort and resources to have her put sex on hold for any significant period of time. That's the reason many people advise women who are looking for serious relationships to hold off on having sex with men for a few months. It's not a matter of prudery or morality, it's simply to ferret out a man's intentions. Men looking for a relationship aren't going to care; men looking to pump and dump are going to get tired of wasting their time and move on. As far as getting angry or frustrated, I don't think I've ever seen that. (Of course, I've never dated any men, either). If it happens, it's most likely because the guy feels deceived. If a woman is is flirtatious, dresses provocatively, etc., then most men assume that she's sexually available. If a woman like that then holds out and starts acting like she's looking for a serious relationship, a man might feel deceived, resulting in frustration and possibly anger. Keep in mind, too, that none of this is conscious. It's an instinctive response. Most people don't think too hard about dating; they just do what comes naturally. And most people instinctively do some sort of cost-benefit analysis: How much do I want her vs. How much effort am I going to make. Humans instinctively look for a good return-on-investments. 1
Sanman Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Firstly, if you resent paying, don't do it. Next, company and attention. Are you not getting her company and attention too? As far as emotional dumping ground or being the backup guy, as if women aren't used as the backup girl too. So, the only thing left is sex. It's as if men feel they're entitled to sex. In case you hadn't realized, you're talking about penetrating a woman's body. This isn't about cursory touching, this is about penetration. Why the hell would any woman who isn't comfortable enough with a guy, particularly one who keeps pressuring her for it, allow this guy to invade her body? Any idea how gross this is? Ahh, Loveshack. Why should I expect anything but gender wars and defensiveness from people.Thanks for quoting only a small portion of my post out of context and then becoming outraged by it. Because all women are eminently trustworthy and genuine. Yes, we are talking about penetration. That intimately personal thing that a woman takes seriously, except for when gets drunk and has a ONS, sees a cute guy, or feels like a FWB. Lets not pretend many modern women take sex that seriously or have any sort of 'rule' about waiting. It becomes a completely arbitrary decision where a woman who gave it away last week is now offended a man that is dating her just expects to let her be penetrated. Right. And it just is not about paying. If I am not getting what I want out of dating/relationship, I would be out of there. There are genuine women who will show interest and want to wait. As I said in my previous post, if the person comes of as someone that is genuinely not ready to have sex I believe most good men would wait. However, there needs to be enough interest shown and willingness to move the relationship onward in other ways for a guy to wait. Even if a guy thinks that there is long term potential, he won't wait around if he does not see other signs of the possibility a good relationship. If feels like he is being used as a chump, there will be anger/resentment or the man will simply leave. 5
GoodOnPaper Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 You could argue if she's not "completely" comfortable with the idea, then she's not that attracted? A loose argument, but I imagine a lot of guys will think that - even if they aren't all about the sex. Is the argument really that loose? I think at least a couple big factors are at play. Is the "waiting" part of a naturally slowly developing relationship or something artificially put in place when it seems that the relationship as a whole is going further? If it's the latter, I can't blame a guy for wondering if he's being taken advantage of. Then consider the guy's background. If he's one that can have a ONS whenever he wants, then an artificial waiting may serve it's purpose -- if he wants the relationship, he may view the waiting as unusual or special or challenging, etc. and, of course he'll probably bail if he wanted something more casual. On the other hand, if the guy struggles to attract women physically or is just someone who doesn't want to play games, then the plan could very well backfire -- all an artificial waiting will do is make her seem like just another woman who isn't really attracted to him. 1
verhrzn Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 There was once a guy that I hooked up with while drunk at a party after being freshly dumped. We continued to hang out, but being sober, I realized that it'd be a very bad idea to jump right back into another relationship. I also wasn't even sure the guy liked me all that much. So, I told him straight out that I was no longer going to engage in sex, but I'd be happy to make out and hang out with him. He seemed fine with it when I explained it (multiple times), but each time we hung out he'd pout, literally pout, that he wasn't getting any. Nothing like being confronted with pouting when you've been nothing but honest. Eventually he just stopped calling me up to hang out, which was probably the best way it could have ended. I found the whole situation manipulative and baffling.
Balzac Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I don't know but at a certain age and experience level: making out = foreplay. It's a natural progression.
2sunny Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 So how does one deal with it? And is it even worth dealing with? I personally don't think it is. How to "deal with it?" tell them bye bye! 2
eleanorhurting Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Uh, if unless you and these guys are under 16, if you're not having sex, you're just friends. Most guys don't want to be just friends with girls they are interested in. That's why they start to pull away, because they feel like they are wasting their time. And no, that does not mean that they only want sex, but sex is necessary. I don't agree with the if you are not having sex part you are just friends. Some people like to take relationships slowly... and I dont kiss people I am just friends with. 4
Balzac Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Why have that conversation? Move on and forget them. Seems to me that any discussion leads to her interpretation as additional "pressure" to produce.
MilitantPacifist Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I can't speak for everyone and everywhere, but in my experience there is no shortage of men who want a girl to be fully ready before having sex, and those men will be more than happy to wait for a girl that he is genuinely interested in. So why force yourself for the others who aren't? ^This. I love sex as much as the next dude, but if the girl's not into it, it'll turn me off big time. I'm basically incapable unless she turns on the landing lights and waves me in lol. Some people have rape fantasies, I just find it disturbing and sick, so unless she's willing, I'm not going to want to do it. 3
SmileFace Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I do think the rape accusations are a little farfetched. However I do thinkif a guy is to the point where he is pouting or mad that he isn't receiving sex- he should mature up and move on. Guys who do think it is ok to act pout likea child are immature truthfully. If a guy isn’t happy with how a relationshipis progressing he should move on and not make the girl feel bad about it. As agirl I wouldn’t deal with it – since he is only showing how immature he is.People need to realize that they may not be capable of relationship if they aremoving at different speeds. 2
Ninjainpajamas Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I'll support the minority/outcast men here, with the unpopular opinion to women that men should wait like handsome little choir boys, sitting upon the church bench until fed their daily bread. Look, we're not 12 here and If you're holding out on sex with a man because you don't feel he is genuine and trustworthy then what's the point of dating the douchebag anyway? IF you feel that all he is interested in is sex...you already get a gut check on this, so where is the problem? Therefore continuing to let him date you and court you as If this is your normal standard etiquette when as men we know you could be dating several other men or just banged some FWB or guy last week that you did because you were looking for validation or a sexual release. No, no, no though...you want to rough up of the guy you are dating but not the guy you slept with without a second thought last week, last month or last year. As Sanman has stated, I think men are looking for consistency here to establish credibility. One day you're the virgin waiting for a prince to rescue you out of your tower, and the next you could be the town wench whoring it up with some guy you hardly knew because It just felt right and he was "hot". And I think that's where men become offended, because they know you're not the virgin mary and they know that If you were genuinely interested and attracted to them you wouldn't be playing these "games", because if they were that guy you'd have taken the chance...and that's what the way it comes off to men...games, you're teasing and being all intimate to the point of sex then backing away at the last minute like some kind of a virgin. If you want to play little miss sweetheart virgin like you're 13 again or whenever it was the last time you actually were "scared" to have sex with a boy then that's not ok for grown men. It's misleading and chances are they're going to see you as a cock tease because you're taking things so far and backing away...you're a grown woman, you should know where a mans mind is IF you are letting it get to that level...so you know what? Don't let it get to that level or take it in that direction If you aren't ready! have some responsibility! not give this you're going to wait until you are comfortable, interested, yadda yadda as If that's the way it works in all the men you've slept with...and let the guy walk away IF he's not your type or the type of man you think you would date. Chances are he is looking to hookup? possibly so, hell probably so...men who are aggressive and assertive tend to just be looking for a quick thing. But don't be a b!tch and take it to the next level by stroking his oscar meyer or letting him feel you up then backing away like "no no no, this is all just too fast ::gasp:: I'm not that kind girl...do you actually believe that?"...man's thinking "yeah the **** right"...but instead says "no it's ok, I understand"...thinking "****ing tease". Sorry ladies, you can't have it all. Be taken on dates, wined and dined then expect to give into sex when you feel this guy has earned it. You don't trust the guy then contribute your half on dates then don't expect to be treated like a virgin princess indefinitely (we know you're not) and especially don't start you something you damn well don't want to finish. Either cut it short when you aren't getting good vibes with the guy or quit playing games. Make a decision. I typically side with women on this issue because I know they tend to fall into bed too fast with men (is that a mans fault though?), and that part is true...I'm not saying that this is something you have to do just because a guy wants to get laid and you owe him it...you owe nobody NOTHING, so I'm not saying anything like that. But also be clear about your intentions, what you are looking for and act accordingly to that...don't act like this is all about your emotions and needs, is all this is about...this is not just about you, and you can't judge a man just because he doesn't feel like jumping through all your hoops....hoops that you created from screwing the wrong men and giving it up without much thought in the past. These men are not there so you can punish them for what some other guy did to you, they're not your emotional punching bags and guinea pigs. So either communicate and speak up to the big bad wolf of men because they are so scary and god forbid you scare the wrong guy away...and be consistent and act accordingly and even appropriately but don't send mixed signals (which you so easily critique and condemn men for), acting like you really like a guy so going forth yet then trying to get out of it, think ahead of time, if you don't want none don't start none!, don't put yourself in those situations or prevent them from happening. Women think it's ok for them to push and pull because of their emotions, It's not...you need to be a big girl too and make decisions like an adult...just not act like a victim all of the time. And guess what? as men we can tell what kind of girl you really are anyway! so you're not fooling anyone but yourself by acting a certain way we can tell you truly are not. I think this post is too much about men do, and says nothing about women do as if they're innocent little doves...that's what irks me about women, very little self awareness and accountability.
verhrzn Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Maybe it has absolutely nothing to do with games, or the guy. I've withdrawn from sex because I felt slutty, or because I felt it was too soon... as in, I am jumping back into a "relationship" without actually assessing a guy's character and if we're compatible. Should women really sleep with every single guy they go on a first date with? How do women juggle the double-edged sword of being expected to "give in" to sex in exchange for being "wined and dined" (do I still have to "give in" if I paid for it all?), but then making sure to not be too slutty? We see plenty of threads on here from guys who are angry that their girlfriends slept with other men, before they even knew them, because that must mean she's a cheating whore. How the heck are women supposed to make all of these situations work.... if she doesn't sleep with you soon enough, dump her, but if she sleeps with you too soon, she's a whore? 3
2sunny Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Sex in its natural state shouldn't include using it as a weapon - as manipulation - or to control... Many women have this backwards.. 1
ThaWholigan Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Maybe it has absolutely nothing to do with games, or the guy. I've withdrawn from sex because I felt slutty, or because I felt it was too soon... as in, I am jumping back into a "relationship" without actually assessing a guy's character and if we're compatible. Should women really sleep with every single guy they go on a first date with? How do women juggle the double-edged sword of being expected to "give in" to sex in exchange for being "wined and dined" (do I still have to "give in" if I paid for it all?), but then making sure to not be too slutty? We see plenty of threads on here from guys who are angry that their girlfriends slept with other men, before they even knew them, because that must mean she's a cheating whore. How the heck are women supposed to make all of these situations work.... if she doesn't sleep with you soon enough, dump her, but if she sleeps with you too soon, she's a whore? Those guys are angry with their girlfriends not because they slept with other men - but because it took THEM so long to sleep with her, while she let other guys sex her earlier. To me, a silly thing to be angry about. 2
verhrzn Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Those guys are angry with their girlfriends not because they slept with other men - but because it took THEM so long to sleep with her, while she let other guys sex her earlier. To me, a silly thing to be angry about. Yes, how dare she treats individual men like individuals, where she has different reactions to each of them. 4
Anela Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I'll support the minority/outcast men here, with the unpopular opinion to women that men should wait like handsome little choir boys, sitting upon the church bench until fed their daily bread. Look, we're not 12 here and If you're holding out on sex with a man because you don't feel he is genuine and trustworthy then what's the point of dating the douchebag anyway? IF you feel that all he is interested in is sex...you already get a gut check on this, so where is the problem? And what about those of us who aren't that experienced, who don't often date, have never had casual sex? I don't understand why it's so easy for people to just have sex - oh, another guy or girl, another roll in the hay. It's weird to me that it's expected so soon. 6
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