Mme. Chaucer Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Also take with a grain of salt women "complaining" about men being overly sexual,its usually counts who the messenger is.If its a good looking guy saying it believe me deep down women are gettign turned on,if it comes from an unattractive man they get grossed out and think its creepy You really seem to be living in a fantasy world about this looks thing. I PROMISE you that the handsomest man in the world will be perceived as creepy if he says or does creepy things. Creepiness or slimy sexual stuff is NOT a turn on, regardless of the way the creep or slimy guy looks. That is not to say that overtly sexual stuff can't be a turn on - and though good looks help, its success depends upon a LOT more than the way a man looks. 1
SteveC80 Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Why cant some people control themselves around good looking people? My friends wife is very good looking and i have no urge to have sex with her..i look at her like a sister... Because as ive said i think women lose control of thier hormones even more then men when they are around men they are physically attracted to they were just taught to surrpess all these years
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Because as ive said i think women lose control of thier hormones even more then men when they are around men they are physically attracted to they were just taught to surrpess all these years What you don't seem to grasp is that "physical attraction" for most women (and even for many men) goes beyond "good looking." There is behavior that can render a great looking man unattractive to almost any woman. Handsome guys can be gross too.
SteveC80 Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 What you don't seem to grasp is that "physical attraction" for most women (and even for many men) goes beyond "good looking." There is behavior that can render a great looking man unattractive to almost any woman. Handsome guys can be gross too. Fair enough my point about female sexuality is that they get just as horny as men around people they are really physically attracted to so add in my friends wife was drunk and ovulating it put her in overdrive lol
SteveC80 Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 Source? My friends wife cuddling and playing footsie with me
Emilia Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 To be honest she could have been fin around her husband was in the vicinity and could have walked in..if she really had feeling for me wouldnt she be more discreet She is the same as the reckless guys I see. She doesn't value her other half and would lose him over a f**k. Shame your friend married someone like that 1
TheBigQuestion Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 This thread went somewhat off-topic when the discussion veered towards "what do women go for?"-territory, but I think it's worthy to bring it back on course. I thought about this for a little bit earlier, and it's something I mentioned a few pages back. If someone is telling a man that he can't express his sexual interest in "X" context/situation/whatever, how is that NOT also an attempt to curb his underlying sexual thought, which, as ThaWholigan stated, is often quite raw and visceral? If someone is telling men that they can't start threads on the internet about the body types they like, or discuss the same among their acquaintances, how is that not an attempt to condemn their sexuality? Alternatively, how is that not a transparent expression of lack of comfort with male sexuality? 1
verhrzn Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 I have no idea where posters on this board got the idea that by asking men to control their behaviors and words, people are somehow trying to alter men's internal thoughts or their sexuality. I say that people should be able to go nuts in their own heads. Be as vile or wild or crazy as you want. I don't think asking to keep it in your own head is trying to control male sexuality. How in the world do you go from Point A to Point B? Unless you are saying that male sexuality is equal to spouting out whatever private sexual thoughts you have...
verhrzn Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 This thread went somewhat off-topic when the discussion veered towards "what do women go for?"-territory, but I think it's worthy to bring it back on course. I thought about this for a little bit earlier, and it's something I mentioned a few pages back. If someone is telling a man that he can't express his sexual interest in "X" context/situation/whatever, how is that NOT also an attempt to curb his underlying sexual thought, which, as ThaWholigan stated, is often quite raw and visceral? If someone is telling men that they can't start threads on the internet about the body types they like, or discuss the same among their acquaintances, how is that not an attempt to condemn their sexuality? Alternatively, how is that not a transparent expression of lack of comfort with male sexuality? So, male sexuality means a man gets to tell some random stranger "nice tits"? Is it any wonder a lot of women wouldn't be comfortable with male sexuality, if male sexuality means getting to comment on her body without her consent? No wonder women begin to view male sexuality as predatory.... comments, suggestions, expressions, behaviors, without consent, IS predatory. If male sexuality means men get to judge and leer at female bodies out loud, then I don't see the value in understanding it. WHY should I be forced to understand the sexuality of men that results in my own discomfort? Why should I understand men's, when they don't understand mine? (That commenting on my body makes me feel self-conscious and hurts my feelings.) Why exactly should women "understand" male sexuality at the expense of their own sense of security? 2
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 30, 2012 Author Posted September 30, 2012 I have no idea where posters on this board got the idea that by asking men to control their behaviors and words, people are somehow trying to alter men's internal thoughts or their sexuality. I say that people should be able to go nuts in their own heads. Be as vile or wild or crazy as you want. I don't think asking to keep it in your own head is trying to control male sexuality. How in the world do you go from Point A to Point B? Unless you are saying that male sexuality is equal to spouting out whatever private sexual thoughts you have... It wasn't about anything you said in the last thread actually, it was actually loosely based on the last one (plus by something the same poster who inspired the last one said ). Much of what goes on in my head never sees the light of day or barely even touches my pad or my keyboard . It also doesn't mean it needs to be spouted out, but it does need an outlet in my opinion. Whether that's in your art, or your private writing or something similar. That's usually why I encourage guys to cultivate creative interests, as they can serve such a purpose. It also needs to be expressed when engaging with a woman - albeit appropriately as I specified not just in this thread but in the last one aswell. It doesn't mean I advocate objectifying strangers and harassing them either. Just so we've gotten all that out the way as I don't want any remnants of the last thread in this one, this is a new topic .
TheBigQuestion Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 So, male sexuality means a man gets to tell some random stranger "nice tits"? Is it any wonder a lot of women wouldn't be comfortable with male sexuality, if male sexuality means getting to comment on her body without her consent? No wonder women begin to view male sexuality as predatory.... comments, suggestions, expressions, behaviors, without consent, IS predatory. If male sexuality means men get to judge and leer at female bodies out loud, then I don't see the value in understanding it. WHY should I be forced to understand the sexuality of men that results in my own discomfort? Why should I understand men's, when they don't understand mine? (That commenting on my body makes me feel self-conscious and hurts my feelings.) Why exactly should women "understand" male sexuality at the expense of their own sense of security? No. Go back to my posts on the first page. I don't think that every outward expression of sexuality should be condoned. No, I wouldn't advise a guy to go up to a random woman on the street to tell her "Yo girl, gimme dem tits." Regardless, reading some of these threads, one would get the impression that when a woman has, say, large breasts, she undergoes a tremendous amount of torment for it and does everything within her power to hide them. I've lived long enough to know that most women, ESPECIALLY young women, who have certain "assets" know how to emphasize them and will do so regularly. I've yet to see an attractive woman in the workplace actually try to downplay her attractiveness because being hot gives her some sort of disadvantage. And in social situations? Puh-lease. When's the last time a woman with killer legs made a point to hide them when she went out on the town? Hell, much of what passes as formal business wear for women nowadays is overtly sexual as well. As far as how I got from Point A to Point B (addressing your first post), riddle me this. If you are fundamentally comfortable with the way men are attracted to women (the internal mechanism), why in the blue hell would it bother you if they express that attraction in online threads, among their buddies, or in another comparative social context? The bottom line is, you are not comfortable, and that's why you wish they'd just shut up. Men's sexual thoughts are not inherently perverse, and it's ridiculous to treat the outward discussion of them as something awful.
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 30, 2012 Author Posted September 30, 2012 Also, let us remember we are not directly talking about men's outward behavior here, I was referring specifically to the internal sexual characteristics of men, both individual and as a gender - which may include whether in the advent of requesting (reasonable) control over their behavior, there is a follow-on indirect effect on the male sexual psyche or not. I wish I could be bothered to find the post that triggered the thread (it wasn't by V, she expressed different ideas than this) - it was basically along the lines of suppression of one's interior sexuality.
maybealone Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 I don't think a man's sexuality gives him a license to say, "nice tits" to a stranger. We all have thoughts we need to keep to ourselves. Parents don't get to tell strangers how to raise their kids, but they might be hanging out with other parents and tell stories about what they saw those strangers do. In other words, we all have thoughts we have to keep to ourselves or keep within our circle of friends. But as far as leering and fantasizing and thinking about sex all the time? Bring. It. On. I love men because of their masculinity and sexuality, not in spite of it. 2
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 I have no idea where posters on this board got the idea that by asking men to control their behaviors and words, people are somehow trying to alter men's internal thoughts or their sexuality. I say that people should be able to go nuts in their own heads. Be as vile or wild or crazy as you want. I don't think asking to keep it in your own head is trying to control male sexuality. How in the world do you go from Point A to Point B? Unless you are saying that male sexuality is equal to spouting out whatever private sexual thoughts you have... Well, requiring sexuality to be kept completely within ones own head and not expressed through actions and words (unless given some type of permission) seems like complete … repression. Particularly since the entity asking for the control and defining the parameters for the control is coming from without. By that I mean that in this situation, it would be women "asking men to control their behaviors and words." I spend a lot of time here on LoveShack defending against men who think it's their place to define and determine how women should be talking and acting. Thus, I can't stand here and be okay with women wanting to do it to men. Slippery slope, really. Also reminds me of "don't ask don't tell." And also of some fundamentalists' postition on gay people in general: "Well, even if God did actually make them gay, (which he did not, but just IF) they should still never act on it, because the acts are abominations." We are socialized to keep sexual things within well defined boundaries. I think courteous men consciously try not to offend women with sexual stuff because they've been raised to do so. Some guys aren't on that program, but I think they "know" what's socially acceptable and what's not. They get to choose how they behave. 3
verhrzn Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 No. Go back to my posts on the first page. I don't think that every outward expression of sexuality should be condoned. No, I wouldn't advise a guy to go up to a random woman on the street to tell her "Yo girl, gimme dem tits." Regardless, reading some of these threads, one would get the impression that when a woman has, say, large breasts, she undergoes a tremendous amount of torment for it and does everything within her power to hide them. I've lived long enough to know that most women, ESPECIALLY young women, who have certain "assets" know how to emphasize them and will do so regularly. I've yet to see an attractive woman in the workplace actually try to downplay her attractiveness because being hot gives her some sort of disadvantage. And in social situations? Puh-lease. When's the last time a woman with killer legs made a point to hide them when she went out on the town? Hell, much of what passes as formal business wear for women nowadays is overtly sexual as well. As far as how I got from Point A to Point B (addressing your first post), riddle me this. If you are fundamentally comfortable with the way men are attracted to women (the internal mechanism), why in the blue hell would it bother you if they express that attraction in online threads, among their buddies, or in another comparative social context? The bottom line is, you are not comfortable, and that's why you wish they'd just shut up. Men's sexual thoughts are not inherently perverse, and it's ridiculous to treat the outward discussion of them as something awful. Your statement is completely non-sensical. Yes, some women flaunt their assets. But some other women still have assets, and you wouldn't notice them because the women are hiding them. How in the world are you going to notice something someone is hiding? Sexuality and power also completely depends on the atmosphere of the workplace. In the sciences and technology, the prettier a woman is, the LESS professional power she has, because none of her male (and sometimes female) colleagues take her seriously. I've seen women who dress to the nines for the job interview with HR and then show up the first day of work in an oversized sweater and old jeans. Why? Because they get more respect if they "fit in" with the guys. They have a better chance of being promoted and being respectfully professionally if they hide their "otherness." (Otherness in this case being femaleness.) Your assertion that sexuality earns women power happens only in a narrow range of situations. A woman with killer legs might hide them when going out on the town if she doesn't want attention. Yes, I know it blows your mind to think some women don't WANT random male attention, but it DOES happen. Or, she might hide them if she's worried about being labeled a slut, or a show-off. I love corsets, and they give me decent cleavage, but I never wear them outside of certain social events because I get socially shamed (by other girls who think I'm showing off, and guys who think I'm dressing slutty.) To your second paragraph, comfort is not an All or Nothing thing. I can be comfortable with my own sexuality without being comfortable with his, or hers, or yours. I can be comfortable with my partner's sexuality, without being comfortable with the sexuality of every single male on the Internet. Why? Because sexuality is varied based on the individual. For me myself, it bothers me because I see so much judgement in online posts. Judgement of "this is attractive" "this is not attractive." Women are already getting constantly bombarded with messages about all the things not right about our bodies (aerolas too big, boobs too far apart, "lunch lady arms," eyelashes not long enough, etc.) that any continuation of that, in real life or online, bothers me. If male sexuality (since apparently all males are the same) means the constant judgement of women's bodies, then I don't really see WHY I should try to understand that. What benefit is it to me, to be reminded constantly of all the ways I am not measuring up to stranger's expectations of what my body should look like? Why should I be happy, or even accept, that THIS is how males work? Again, if male sexuality means judging women's bodies, I'm not sure I ever want to be around males ever again. (Which I'm sure they'd be oh-so-sad that yet another fatty is gone from the overall population.) 1
Lonely Ronin Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 We are socialized to keep sexual things within well defined boundaries. I think courteous men consciously try not to offend women with sexual stuff because they've been raised to do so. Some guys aren't on that program, but I think they "know" what's socially acceptable and what's not. They get to choose how they behave. You are so right. Whats so sad, is how it seems some on LS can't or won't differentiate between the norm and the outliers.
Author ThaWholigan Posted October 9, 2012 Author Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) I have some questions What is so bad about male sexuality? Why is it considered so volatile that it's assumed we cannot even control ourselves and then that notion applied to a majority? Why when even expressed privately, harbored or even repressed for the benefit of others is it still a cause for chastisement for depravity? Genuinely curious by some of the things I've read the last day or so. Edited October 9, 2012 by ThaWholigan
Els Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 I have some questions What is so bad about male sexuality? Why is it considered so volatile that it's assumed we cannot even control ourselves and then that notion applied to a majority? Why when even expressed privately, harbored or even repressed for the benefit of others is it still a cause for chastisement for depravity? Genuinely curious by some of the things I've read the last day or so. The thing about places like LS, is that you have a whole bunch of people who are having problems with relationships in it (not to say that everyone here does, but I think the proportions are higher than IRL). That, along with the fact that the most sensitive and emotionally-wrought of matters are encouraged for discussion, contributes to an extremely volatile combination. You have women who are suffering or have suffered from self esteem issues related to their bodies and sexuality, and you have men who are largely inexperienced with relationships and so desperate for sex that if you put them on a barren island and offered them either sex or food for a week, they'd take the sex. Clearly fireworks are going to ensue, with people taking extreme and irreconciliably opposing sides. IRL, my experience has been that people are much more moderate, with the men not being as obsessed with superficialities and discussing female bodies, and the women not raising their hackles at the slightest hint of male sexuality seeping out. As for the notion being applied to the majority, I think that is perpetrated by both the men and women described above. I definitely don't agree with the women who apply blanket assumptions to how all men act or think or speak... but I really don't think it helps maters that some men themselves make blanket statements about how 'all men are' as an excuse for their own personal behaviour. Honest to god, if 'all men' or even 'most men' were genuinely what some of the posters here described, I'd happily walk into a SPCA, take my pick of cats and settle down to lifelong spinsterhood. But, as I've said on another thread, either that isn't true, or I have the relationship equivalent of having won the jackpot three times in my 20-odd years. I think the former is a more likely explanation. 1
verhrzn Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 As for the notion being applied to the majority, I think that is perpetrated by both the men and women described above. I definitely don't agree with the women who apply blanket assumptions to how all men act or think or speak... but I really don't think it helps maters that some men themselves make blanket statements about how 'all men are' as an excuse for their own personal behaviour. Honest to god, if 'all men' or even 'most men' were genuinely what some of the posters here described, I'd happily walk into a SPCA, take my pick of cats and settle down to lifelong spinsterhood. But, as I've said on another thread, either that isn't true, or I have the relationship equivalent of having won the jackpot three times in my 20-odd years. I think the former is a more likely explanation. Maybe it's location in the world. You're in Australia, correct? Maybe that contributes to your jack pot (as well as your nice looks. I'd still kill to have been born a cute Asian.) I am finding that the more I come to LS, the less I ever, ever want to deal with men in a romantic capacity.
Els Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 Maybe it's location in the world. You're in Australia, correct? Maybe that contributes to your jack pot (as well as your nice looks. I'd still kill to have been born a cute Asian.) I am finding that the more I come to LS, the less I ever, ever want to deal with men in a romantic capacity. Rofl, no, not Australia, and 99% of the people where I come from (and where I met my current bf before we emigrated) were also Asian, so that is very unlikely to be a contributing factor. I have told you before that I think I look quite average, but we'll just end up arguing to death about that. Though perhaps the Asian culture in itself was a factor, despite the fact that both of us would like to think of ourselves as being intellectual enough to cut free from the Asian traditions that we find meaningless. I definitely agree that location could be an issue (can't speak for how American men are, not having lived in it for any significant period of time), but you yourself have mentioned that LS gives you way worse vibes about men than RL ever did, so I'm fairly sure it's a LS thing.
verhrzn Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 Rofl, no, not Australia, and 99% of the people where I come from (and where I met my current bf before we emigrated) were also Asian, so that is very unlikely to be a contributing factor. I have told you before that I think I look quite average, but we'll just end up arguing to death about that. Though perhaps the Asian culture in itself was a factor, despite the fact that both of us would like to think of ourselves as being intellectual enough to cut free from the Asian traditions that we find meaningless. I definitely agree that location could be an issue (can't speak for how American men are, not having lived in it for any significant period of time), but you yourself have mentioned that LS gives you way worse vibes about men than RL ever did, so I'm fairly sure it's a LS thing. Yes, LS gives me way worse vibes, but I still find American culture as a whole to be extremely problematic. I encounter fat-shaming in real life somewhat often (twice a month?) and I'd say my single peers are not that far off from the mindset shown on LS. An interesting point about Asian culture, though. I had a lot of Hmong classmates, and on occasions where discussions of sex would pop up, they seemed to take things a lot more in stride than the other boys in the class. They just sort of shrugged their shoulders at the idea of their girlfriends being overweight or not amazingly attractive. By no means have I studied it, and it might be an isolated pocket, but maybe there is something in transplanted Asian cultures that doesn't place such emphasis on looks/unrealistic romantic ideals?
Els Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 Yes, LS gives me way worse vibes, but I still find American culture as a whole to be extremely problematic. I encounter fat-shaming in real life somewhat often (twice a month?) and I'd say my single peers are not that far off from the mindset shown on LS. An interesting point about Asian culture, though. I had a lot of Hmong classmates, and on occasions where discussions of sex would pop up, they seemed to take things a lot more in stride than the other boys in the class. They just sort of shrugged their shoulders at the idea of their girlfriends being overweight or not amazingly attractive. By no means have I studied it, and it might be an isolated pocket, but maybe there is something in transplanted Asian cultures that doesn't place such emphasis on looks/unrealistic romantic ideals? I'm really not certain about that - I think it is equally shallow at its core, just in a different way. For instance, chastity amongst women is still very much prized in Asian cultures, whereas women have more social freedom to sleep around in Western ones. One concept that I do like about the Asian culture is that it doesn't encourage the 'instant' or 'me me me' attitude, and there is little room for breeding entitlement, because you learn from an early age in most Asian countries that you absolutely aren't entitled to anything, not even food or survival, much less sex or sex with hot women. That being said, I still think LS is off the mark even as far as American experiences go. From the way some men on LS speak, you would think women are completely doomed to a life of singlehood by the time they hit the ripe ol' age of 30... but look how many female posters have put the lie to that in their real lives? Carrie, Mme Chaucer, LittleTiger, etc, have all met loyal and wonderful men. Plenty of other examples, but I'm sure you get the drift by now. 1
verhrzn Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 That being said, I still think LS is off the mark even as far as American experiences go. From the way some men on LS speak, you would think women are completely doomed to a life of singlehood by the time they hit the ripe ol' age of 30... but look how many female posters have put the lie to that in their real lives? Carrie, Mme Chaucer, LittleTiger, etc, have all met loyal and wonderful men. Plenty of other examples, but I'm sure you get the drift by now. I do, but I always wonder if they have those wonderful men because they are, ya know, unique and attractive. All of them self-describe as very attractive women; so maybe it's that attractive women have a higher shelf life, and it's us fattiest that are dried-up by 30?
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