Men thinking about women/Male sexuality

[ThaWholigan]

So this is a follow up from my last thread, rather than focus on the external expression of men's sexual interest, I'm going to turn towards our internal understanding of our own sexuality and what it means, because there seems to be a lack of true understanding about it.

 

Now I can only speak for myself as a man, as well as describe the [what I believe to be] honest anecdotes of other males I have corresponded with recently, both online and offline.

 

The last thread was centered on "keeping our thoughts to ourselves", but what of those thoughts? Some of those thoughts aren't exactly innocent, some of them quite raw and animalistic. Sometimes guys DO have perfectly innocent thoughts of a sexual nature. Sometimes guys think about women who aren't their SO (if they are attached) despite trying not to!

 

Now I understand that some women are concerned about the way men think and perceive women, especially regarding sex. There are those who think that men only think about sex, or those who don't understand why a man may have a fantasy about another woman or may want to watch a porno to relieve some sexual tension quickly. Me personally, I think that it can be a problem if too much sexual energy is wasted on porn speaking from a masculine point of view, but that's my opinion - and I still watch porn on occasion.

 

But given all of this - it is perfectly reasonable to request that men have more control in the expression of their sexual interest. But is it fair to ask men to control and subsequently repress much of the internal processing of their sexuality? Is there more we could do to control it?

 

Personal opinion:

 

I think we should accept that we think the way we do rather than reject it, because that could lead to a manifestation in some way. I don't necessarily mean sexual assault of women either, but rather an extreme level of sexual frustration, a mismanagement of sexual energy, lack of understanding ones own sexuality and sexual identity as an individual, as well as physical manifestations such as sexual neuroses, ED, PE etc....could even lead to addictions to things such as pornography.

 

I think that everyone is an individual first and foremost, and the nuances in their sexuality is different to others, but most guys I talk to tend to be highly sexually driven, and even their thoughts suggest as such upon expression of them. Half of them do not watch porn, so there isn't really much influence in that arena, but some of the stories they have told me are crazy, from their thoughts to their actual sexual exploits. There is a rawness to a lot of our sexual energy that does take some controlling! I think that moderating the external expression of that is crucial, but to attempt to control our internal urges for the sake of prevent "potential" offense or anything like that is a stretch, and could actually be a bad idea.

 

Thoughts?

[Emilia]

If men tried to control their expression more they would turn into women. I'm serious. I - and I don't believe I'm on my own with this - have some really disturbing thoughts sometimes regarding sex. Not disturbing as in violent but as in something quite raw and unusual that would surprise the more innocent. However, it is greatly encouraged by society that I should supress this.

 

It's not that we don't feel it, it's just that we are socialised in a way that we aren't allowed to express it quite as openly. Feeling sexual frustration and being horny and all that is completely normal for a woman. I suppose being surrounded by our own sex who are usually softer helps to channel it differently. Men have more testosterone and are more aggressive so they wind each other up more.

[Emilia]

It's not that we don't feel it, it's just that we are socialised in a way that we aren't allowed to express it quite as openly. Feeling sexual frustration and being horny and all that is completely normal for a woman. I suppose being surrounded by our own sex who are usually softer helps to channel it differently. Men have more testosterone and are more aggressive so they wind each other up more.

 

Come to think of it. Some of the female battiness or loopiness especially when older comes from this I think.

[SteveC80]

Since its becoming less and less taboo for Women to have a lot of sexual partners and talk and be open about sex then it was in the past i think people are starting to realize the female sex drive might be even more powerdul then men they just had to surpress it,ever notice how Women stay in relationships strictly because of good sex?

 

I realized awhile ago Womens sexual appetire and drive being that i had tons of sexual partners and sexual advances since i would be what i guess youd call classically handsome at least in my 20's

 

Women would do the weirdest and really most creepy things to try to sleep with me and a lot of these were married Women

 

AS ive said in the past ive had numerous friends wives put their hands all over me while drunk and it was awkward as hell but i then realized when women see a good loooking guy they feel exactly how men feel when they see a good looking women and it might be a even more powerful urge to do something from what ive seen its just that women were always shamed for it

 

Also take with a grain of salt women "complaining" about men being overly sexual,its usually counts who the messenger is.If its a good looking guy saying it believe me deep down women are gettign turned on,if it comes from an unattractive man they get grossed out and think its creepy

Edited September 27, 2012 by SteveC80

[Anela]

 

Also take with a grain of salt women "complaining" about men being overly sexual,its usually counts who the messenger is.If its a good looking guy saying it believe me deep down women are gettign turned on,if it comes from an unattractive man they get grossed out and think its creepy

 

I have had some very strong sexual feelings, I just don't broadcast them.

 

If a good-looking guy is gross, then he will be treated just like any other guy who is gross towards me.

[TheBigQuestion]

My answers to this thread are going to depend on the fact that I live in the US. I can't comment on the sexual thought processes of men who live across the pond, nor can I credibly comment on the extent to which other societies actively repress male expressions of sexuality.

 

In general, I agree with you. Unless your sexual thoughts are rife with desires for non-consensual acts, child abuse, etc., I fail to see what good trying to alter one's base sexual nature can do. Make no mistake, however. When one proposes that male sexual expression needs to be neutralized or censored, such a proposition is also an attempt, whether intentional or not, to alter the internal thought processes of men as they pertain to sex. If saying phrase/doing action X is bad, then there has to be at least something wrong with thinking the corresponding thought Y.

 

That's probably why I was so adamant in my positions in the last thread. Simply put, I do not see a substantive difference between reprimanding or shaming men for their outward sexual expression and reprimanding them for their underlying sexual thoughts. I firmly believe that most women who express disdain for men talking about their favorite female physical features on the internet or in public among friends are the ones who are deeply uncomfortable with the inherent sexual nature of men. They are just as if not more uncomfortable with how men react to women viscerally than to how they express those reactions verbally.

 

Now, it doesn't follow that I think ALL sexual expression is proper, even in cases where there is nothing unhealthy about the thoughts that underlie that expression. But I'm resistant to the further bowdlerizing of the male sex drive. At least in White America, many, many of today's young women grew up with the message that the male sex drive is inherently predatory. The corresponding consequence for young men has been the neutering () of their abilities to express sexual interest. Exhibit A: Nice Guy Syndrome.

[SteveC80]

I have had some very strong sexual feelings, I just don't broadcast them.

 

 

Like what? let people in the mind of a womens sexuality:bunny:

 

As far as if a guys gross hes gross possibly to some,but with a lot of women it depends on whos saying it

 

I did an experiment years ago with my self admitted ugly friend,we went up to the same women at different times and said the same lines and some of the stuff i said had women laughing and touching me and when he said it they got offended and walked away:laugh:

[ThaWholigan]

If men tried to control their expression more they would turn into women. I'm serious. I - and I don't believe I'm on my own with this - have some really disturbing thoughts sometimes regarding sex. Not disturbing as in violent but as in something quite raw and unusual that would surprise the more innocent. However, it is greatly encouraged by society that I should supress this.

 

It's not that we don't feel it, it's just that we are socialised in a way that we aren't allowed to express it quite as openly. Feeling sexual frustration and being horny and all that is completely normal for a woman. I suppose being surrounded by our own sex who are usually softer helps to channel it differently. Men have more testosterone and are more aggressive so they wind each other up more.

Interesting. I have my belief in that men and women each individually have a balance of energy, feminine and masculine, and combined with each predisposition to a sexual kink or mode of arousal, there are plenty of women with a sexual interior that can match any man for rawness and power.

[ThaWholigan]

Like what? let people in the mind of a womens sexuality:bunny:

 

As far as if a guys gross hes gross possibly to some,but with a lot of women it depends on whos saying it

 

I did an experiment years ago with my self admitted ugly friend,we went up to the same women at different times and said the same lines and some of the stuff i said had women laughing and touching me and when he said it they got offended and walked away:laugh:

I agree that women's sexuality is just as powerful if not more, but in general is probably expressed and aroused slightly differently. Where I disagree is that it is all tied up in what the man looks like. Certainly there are women who are primarily turned on by physical attributes - there are plenty of them. But with a lot of other women, particularly ones that I have met over the years, there is a lot more that it takes to ignite that woman - and a good looking guy with no game won't get the play .

[ThaWholigan]

My answers to this thread are going to depend on the fact that I live in the US. I can't comment on the sexual thought processes of men who live across the pond, nor can I credibly comment on the extent to which other societies actively repress male expressions of sexuality.

 

It's probably not much different.

 

In general, I agree with you. Unless your sexual thoughts are rife with desires for non-consensual acts, child abuse, etc., I fail to see what good trying to alter one's base sexual nature can do. Make no mistake, however. When one proposes that male sexual expression needs to be neutralized or censored, such a proposition is also an attempt, whether intentional or not, to alter the internal thought processes of men as they pertain to sex. If saying phrase/doing action X is bad, then there has to be at least something wrong with thinking the corresponding thought Y.

 

That's probably why I was so adamant in my positions in the last thread. Simply put, I do not see a substantive difference between reprimanding or shaming men for their outward sexual expression and reprimanding them for their underlying sexual thoughts. I firmly believe that most women who express disdain for men talking about their favorite female physical features on the internet or in public among friends are the ones who are deeply uncomfortable with the inherent sexual nature of men. They are just as if not more uncomfortable with how men react to women viscerally than to how they express those reactions verbally.

I do think some women are uncomfortable with the inherent sexual nature - and I think some of those same women are probably a little uncomfortable with their own, but that is only a guess on my part. I think that outward sexual expression isn't wrong, but should have a little bit of moderation lest we get leery like the men we criticize for making us look bad .

 

I think that when that expression is reprimanded, it can cause a man to feel shame for his own sexuality - whether a woman wants that or not. It will cause him to think about whether his thoughts are healthy and he may try to repress them in the fear that this side of him is not wanted or unappreciated. Then he may further lack appreciation for his own sexual nature and seek to mute it - which usually backfires in some way.

 

Now, it doesn't follow that I think ALL sexual expression is proper, even in cases where there is nothing unhealthy about the thoughts that underlie that expression. But I'm resistant to the further bowdlerizing of the male sex drive. At least in White America, many, many of today's young women grew up with the message that the male sex drive is inherently predatory. The corresponding consequence for young men has been the neutering () of their abilities to express sexual interest. Exhibit A: Nice Guy Syndrome.

 

Precisely in my view.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[Quiet Storm]

I agree that there is a time and place for expressing your sexual thoughts.

 

Although I may not like that my husband is sexually attracted to women other than me, I can accept it. (acting on it would be a different story).

 

I think women should accept men's sexuality instead of trying to change it, contain it or minimize it. I believe that expecting men to change their thought process will only create frustration and disappointment for women. Regardless of how we feel about those thoughts, saying we don't like it won't prompt men to change.

 

I think some women look at this issue in a very black & white manner, such as: "If he looks at another girl, he's not attracted to me" or "I must not be what he wants if he notices other women". I think it's very diffcult for some women to understand that men can think 1000s of women are hot, but still love their partner and the way that she looks, too. Simutaneously.

 

Women have the right to feel whatever they feel about their partners thoughts, though. If him appreciating other women makes them feel insecure or upset, they should be able to express that. But they should also be open to the idea that maybe they are drawing the wrong conclusions about this. I think they should consider that JUST MAYBE him looking at other women has nothing to do with the level of his attraction for them, that his thoughts about other women do not negate his feelings for his woman, and not be threatened by it.

[SteveC80]

I agree that there is a time and place for expressing your sexual thoughts.

 

Although I may not like that my husband is sexually attracted to women other than me, I can accept it. (acting on it would be a different story).

 

I think women should accept men's sexuality instead of trying to change it, contain it or minimize it. I believe that expecting men to change their thought process will only create frustration and disappointment for women. Regardless of how we feel about those thoughts, saying we don't like it won't prompt men to change.

 

I think some women look at this issue in a very black & white manner, such as: "If he looks at another girl, he's not attracted to me" or "I must not be what he wants if he notices other women". I think it's very diffcult for some women to understand that men can think 1000s of women are hot, but still love their partner and the way that she looks, too. Simutaneously.

 

Women have the right to feel whatever they feel about their partners thoughts, though. If him appreciating other women makes them feel insecure or upset, they should be able to express that. But they should also be open to the idea that maybe they are drawing the wrong conclusions about this. I think they should consider that JUST MAYBE him looking at other women has nothing to do with the level of his attraction for them, that his thoughts about other women do not negate his feelings for his woman, and not be threatened by it.

 

Lets not act like ladies arent attracted and dont notice other men even when theyre married.Ive seen women be just as vocal as men about it the problem is they in turn get mad when their man does it but dont see the hypocrisy in it

 

They want to be the only women in the world who exists to their man but wont do the same

[Quiet Storm]

Lets not act like ladies arent attracted and dont notice other men even when theyre married.Ive seen women be just as vocal as men about it the problem is they in turn get mad when their man does it but dont see the hypocrisy in it

 

They want to be the only women in the world who exists to their man but wont do the same

 

As a married woman, I will notice a good looking or a well built guy, but the thought of having sex with him never crosses my mind. I don't envision what he might look like naked or how it would feel to have sex with him. Not once have I felt that in 21 years. However, I am a very sexually satisfied woman. I am lucky enough to have a husband that really cares about pleasing me. If I was sexually frustrated, it may be different.

[TheBigQuestion]

It's probably not much different.

 

I just put that in there as a cautionary note. I mean, within the United States, attitudes towards expression of male sexual interest/discussions of male sexuality vary greatly, and the boundaries are usually ethnic/cultural in nature. As a general rule, middle-to-upper-class whites tend to be the most stuffy and reserved about it. It's not nearly the same in black and Hispanic communities.

[Emilia]

Interesting. I have my belief in that men and women each individually have a balance of energy, feminine and masculine, and combined with each predisposition to a sexual kink or mode of arousal, there are plenty of women with a sexual interior that can match any man for rawness and power.

 

It's hard to compare because you don't know what's going on in someone's mind but from what I hear (men aren't always that good at keeping their voice down etc) I could surprise some of them. Certainly surprised some in bed. Not in a kinky way, more like in a hungry way.

 

The thing is though, if a woman gets rather demonstrative in bed, some men lose their confidence. So is it good to express your sexuality or isn't it?

[Emilia]

As a married woman, I will notice a good looking or a well built guy, but the thought of having sex with him never crosses my mind. I don't envision what he might look like naked or how it would feel to have sex with him. Not once have I felt that in 21 years. However, I am a very sexually satisfied woman. I am lucky enough to have a husband that really cares about pleasing me. If I was sexually frustrated, it may be different.

 

This is how I am. As much as I'm - apparently - quite sexual, I'm also very monogamous. You are one lucky lady though, I envy you.

[MrCastle]

Wholigan you mentioned something I disagree with and it's something I often see you say--this idea that men who are good looking but don't have game will be unsuccessful. I don't know if you're saying it to make other guys on this board feel better or make yourself feel better but it is simply not true.

 

Both sexes go for looks. Men more so, but even so. If you take a good looking guy with no game and put him in enough situations; he's going to eventually meet a girl who will sleep with him just off looks alone. For men who are not as attractive, they can't play those odds; they have to find a girl they can arouse emotionally/mentally before they're given a chance to sleep with her. Highly attractive guys with no game may not be able to keep a girl, but they'll sure be able to land one.

 

Anywho, in regards to the thread topic, I think both genders should embrace their sexuality. Girls who think guys are gross for thinking about sex or talking about sex are by my estimations, prudes, and I don't deal with prudes. I do think there is an acceptable way to express your sexuality and a way that comes across as crude or inappropriate, and you have to know where that boundary is, but I do not believe in sexual repression. You have to be free.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I think that everyone is an individual first and foremost, and the nuances in their sexuality is different to others, but most guys I talk to tend to be highly sexually driven, and even their thoughts suggest as such upon expression of them. Half of them do not watch porn, so there isn't really much influence in that arena, but some of the stories they have told me are crazy, from their thoughts to their actual sexual exploits. There is a rawness to a lot of our sexual energy that does take some controlling! I think that moderating the external expression of that is crucial, but to attempt to control our internal urges for the sake of prevent "potential" offense or anything like that is a stretch, and could actually be a bad idea.

Thoughts?

 

I believe that the overall health of a person's "sexuality" is directly tied to their overall emotional health.

 

Meaning that those who have unhealthy sexual proclivities are also unhealthy emotionally. People who suffer from sex addiction fall into this category.

 

In my experience men and women who have high numbers of sex partners make terrible significant others unless they address the underlying emotional issues that lead to overly sexualized behavior.

 

In regards to women trying to control their man's sexuality... it is a natural thing to want to be #1 on your man's list. If done in a healthy way this can be an awesome positive for a relationship.

[Lonely Ronin]

Certainly surprised some in bed. Not in a kinky way, more like in a hungry way.

 

The last woman I seriously dated was that way. She was confident, outgoing, kind, affectionate, bold, very lady like, sensitive, & very physically attractive. I learned all that about her before we ever made it into the bedroom. When we made it into the bedroom, all her public traits made her hunger, desire, and sexuality all the more intense.

 

Being around he both in and out of the bedroom was intoxicating.

 

 

 

The thing is though, if a woman gets rather demonstrative in bed, some men lose their confidence. So is it good to express your sexuality or isn't it?

It's very good.

[Anela]

As a married woman, I will notice a good looking or a well built guy, but the thought of having sex with him never crosses my mind. I don't envision what he might look like naked or how it would feel to have sex with him. Not once have I felt that in 21 years. However, I am a very sexually satisfied woman. I am lucky enough to have a husband that really cares about pleasing me. If I was sexually frustrated, it may be different.

 

Same here - only I'm not involved with anyone. I rarely feel strong feelings or have those thoughts around someone I've just met, or not even spoken to.

 

I've just remembered that I was going to PM Wholigan, with a question concerning his other thread. I just wondered why men might want to voice certain thoughts so that a woman can hear them. I'm talking about both the negative ones (if he thinks she's really unattractive, and seems to need to make her feel bad), or overtly sexual thoughts. If I come out with something like, "hey cutie, that's a mighty fine ass you've got there!" I would expect them to:

 

a) look horrified and run, if I'm not their type, or

b) think that I'd be up for sleeping with them, since I'm being so blunt

 

(You know, I'm tempted to try that just once, just to see what sort of reaction I get, and the looks on the faces of anyone who knows me, would be priceless.)

 

The thing is that, to me, when someone has decided to remark on me and/or my body, when I was out (let alone unwelcome remarks from anyone already known to me), it felt like they were trying to throw me off. Especially if it was a group of guys - they mostly travelled in packs.

 

In contrast to that, in a bookstore, almost two years ago. I'd had a really awful day, crying for hours, and trying to deal with someone who I should have cut out of my life a long time before that. My dad took me out to the bookstore that evening, and when I was browsing one shelf, I just happened to turn around and notice a guy checking me out, and obviously enjoying what he saw. He wasn't leering, he didn't say a thing to me - he just caught me looking back at him, kept the quiet smile on his face, and I smiled back at him. I'd had a crappy day, and that look made me feel good, for just a minute. Nothing else happened: I turned back to my shelf, and he disappeared.

[Anela]

 

Anywho, in regards to the thread topic, I think both genders should embrace their sexuality. Girls who think guys are gross for thinking about sex or talking about sex are by my estimations, prudes, and I don't deal with prudes. I do think there is an acceptable way to express your sexuality and a way that comes across as crude or inappropriate, and you have to know where that boundary is, but I do not believe in sexual repression. You have to be free.

 

I'm not a prude, I just haven't wanted to sleep around - or to sleep with anyone right away.

[Emilia]

The last woman I seriously dated was that way. She was confident, outgoing, kind, affectionate, bold, very lady like, sensitive, & very physically attractive. I learned all that about her before we ever made it into the bedroom. When we made it into the bedroom, all her public traits made her hunger, desire, and sexuality all the more intense.

 

Being around he both in and out of the bedroom was intoxicating.

 

 

It's very good.

 

very pleased to hear it. Don't be sad

[oaks]

But is it fair to ask men to control and subsequently repress much of the internal processing of their sexuality?

 

I think Orwell covered this in Nineteen Eighty-four.

[ThaWholigan]

Wholigan you mentioned something I disagree with and it's something I often see you say--this idea that men who are good looking but don't have game will be unsuccessful. I don't know if you're saying it to make other guys on this board feel better or make yourself feel better but it is simply not true.

 

Both sexes go for looks. Men more so, but even so. If you take a good looking guy with no game and put him in enough situations; he's going to eventually meet a girl who will sleep with him just off looks alone. For men who are not as attractive, they can't play those odds; they have to find a girl they can arouse emotionally/mentally before they're given a chance to sleep with her. Highly attractive guys with no game may not be able to keep a girl, but they'll sure be able to land one.

 

Ah, you took that comment a little out of context to a degree - with women whose primary mode of sexual attraction is physical, sure he will do very well. I meant with women with whom it takes more - I have met quite a few of each. Everyone has their demographic

[ThaWholigan]

It's hard to compare because you don't know what's going on in someone's mind but from what I hear (men aren't always that good at keeping their voice down etc) I could surprise some of them. Certainly surprised some in bed. Not in a kinky way, more like in a hungry way.

 

The thing is though, if a woman gets rather demonstrative in bed, some men lose their confidence. So is it good to express your sexuality or isn't it?

 

It's good to express your sexuality if you are with a person who easily facilitates and loves it when you do .

 

Men who feel emasculated sexually certainly do not make sexually expressive women comfortable - according to anecdotes . I have a naughty story I'm thinking of, but I won't share it yet .