Divorce proposal accepted...

[AnotherRound]

I don't really have a question here. I know that this whole situation is going to come down to me having to make a decision at some point, and I'm not a person who does what others think I should do, as I have to do what I think is best. So, this is really just venting, and an update for anyone who has been following my story. If you do feel the need to respond, constructive feedback on being in a relationship with a man going through divorce is what I would like.

 

So, long conversation again tonight. This time we did spend quite a lot of time discussing an issue in my life, and he was very supportive of me and validating of my feelings (even though they are all over the place right now, nothing to do with him, but with other things in my life from a long time ago). So, that was a nice break, that the conversation wasn't mostly about his divorce.

 

However, I did decide that we couldn't just keep ignoring the divorce. It just was NOT working for us, it is not how our relationship is. And, I do want to know how he is doing, and how he is handling things, and how he is processing - this is important information to me right now, and will help me make a decision when the time comes regarding a possible relationship with him.

 

So, the proposals were written up, and the stbxw has agreed to his proposal. They have one more financial issue to sort out, some property that they own that they need to agree on, and have until Friday to get that sorted. The attorneys are hoping to sign the divorce agreement early next week. He sounded relieved that it's going to be done quickly and neatly, and was surprised that they were able to agree on so much so quickly. He is okay with the settlement - as okay as anyone would be having to give up half of everything that they own and have worked for and giving up daily access to his child. But, I think he is coming to terms with the fact that it's just unavoidable at this point, and he is accepting that.

 

He is now starting to look towards the future. He has been on hold for the past 8 months or so, and he is expressing that he is ready to get off hold with his life. This doesn't necessarily mean jumping right into a full relationship with anyone else, even me, but it does mean, getting his own life sorted out. Continuing IC, as he is benefiting from it. Getting his new house in order. He is looking at branching out career wise, something he never felt able to do while married. He is starting to plan HIS life, and that is a good start for him I think.

 

He still has some confusion in that he is wanting more closure, but is finally realizing that you can't have "closure" with someone who is unable to communicate about anything. And, I think he is accepting that too, and realizing that he has done everything he possibly could over the past 8 months to try to make things right. We talked about relationships that have become so damaged, and so broken, that they are not fixable. You can't rebuild a burned down house out of the ashes... it requires starting completely over, and neither of them is willing to do that, as they don't see what there is to "save".

 

So, it's wrapping up. And I think that once it is finalized, he will be able to get his bearings. We talked very briefly about us tonight. He simply asked where I was with everything, if I was feeling okay with everything. I told him that I am fine with it all, and that I have no idea what the future is going to bring. I still want him to just be happy - even if that means not being with me. We talked a little about our relationship, what we liked about it, how it was so different than what he was experiencing with his stbxw. But that's as far as we went with that really. I think that we both are trying to take it REALLY slowly, bc we know that we may be tempted to fall right back in. And I think that we both know that isn't going to be healthy, and we both want to do this the right way, if we do it at all - or there's no point.

 

I will be glad when the divorce is over. Not bc I can "have" him then, but bc then, if he and I want to be together, we can do so without that hanging over our heads. I know that he has some ways to go emotionally, but he seems well on his way to getting back to the middle (realizing that they both contributed to the break down of the marriage) thinking instead of the extreme polarized thinking that the divorce triggered in him. And obviously, this is something he will work on in IC. And I'm glad that it will be over for him too. He is not good with the limbo, and not knowing where things are. He needs that to move forward I think, and when he gets that, I think his progress will increase at a better rate.

 

As for me, I'm still wanting to wait until the divorce is finalized. Obviously, our emotional connection is still there and we have not been NC, so, there is that. I don't know if that is the best way for it to be, but any other way feels wrong and awkward to us, so, that's the way it is. I'm doing my best to not provide "counseling", but to just listen when he is expressing. I do answer questions he has about the processes, and I feel okay with that.

 

NC is just not going to be an option for us. Regardless of whether or not it would be the "better" way to do it (wish there was a manual for these things!), it just isn't "us". And in all honesty, if we come out of all of this as just friends, I really would be okay with that. I just want it to be over and settled and a non-factor in his life, and in any relationship that he and I may pursue. I don't know how long that will take, but I'm willing to let that take its course, as I don't want any type of relationship with him that will be tainted with the divorce aftermath.

 

So, I'm going to try the LC that someone suggested. Maybe a phone call once a week, and not hours on the phone like we usually do. Maybe like a half hour at the most? I'm okay with us supporting one another, as long as it doesn't turn into feeling like a counseling session for me, and I think we did pretty good with that tonight ( mostly talking about me). So, I think we can do this, and just see what happens. If we can re-bond emotionally again, great. If that leads to a relationship that meets both of our needs, great. But if it doesn't, then that's great too.

 

I'm letting the universe present me with what it has to offer, and then I will decide whether or not I want to take it or not. Here's hoping that everyone comes out on the other side happier and healthier and in a MUCH better place, and that when the dust settles, it was exactly the right thing and everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be.

 

Thanks for listening, and thanks to those of you who have truly tried to understand where I'm coming from and the way I think and feel, and have honestly tried to help me sort through it all.

[cocorico]

I don't really have a question here. I know that this whole situation is going to come down to me having to make a decision at some point, and I'm not a person who does what others think I should do, as I have to do what I think is best. So, this is really just venting, and an update for anyone who has been following my story. If you do feel the need to respond, constructive feedback on being in a relationship with a man going through divorce is what I would like.

 

AR, it's a good few years since I was where you are now, but I do remember being told to step back and let him get on with his D and then to start a new R slowly with him when he was done. That seemed to me completely unnatural - when close friends go through Ds I don't drop them and only reconnect once it's all sorted, I'm there for them, in whatever capacity they need me to be. That is what friends do. And if it's the person who is closest to you of all, why especially would you refuse to support them at a time they most need you?

 

In the throes of the D he would often need advice on whether her demands were reasonable, or we're seen to be reasonable, or he would be so consumed with anger about her latest stunt that it would colour his reception of what was otherwise a sensible proposal, and having the space to talk through all of that helped us both get a handle on how things were likely to be in the future, pragmatically, economically, relationship-wise. And knowing where we stood helped us make our own informed choices.

 

So yes, we did discuss the D, a lot, as well as emotional stuff on both our sides, as well as my stuff, so it was by no means one-sided. We also planned together - choosing the house he moved into, finding the right lawyer, compiling the grounds for the D petition, and at his request I accompanied him to the lawyer a couple of times. After all it was our future we were planning and he wanted me to be informed and involved.

 

I guess the difference is we knew we wanted to be together. We weren't going to start dating as if we didn't already have a R. We did, we loved each other, and we were ready to take the next logical step in that. About 6 months after he moved out, we moved in together. It made no sense to us to delay that lo ger because it was what we both wanted and were ready for. He'd had time to work out his own R with the kids in his own space, so it wasn't just switching women, and the kids were ready to form a new family unit. I think for us if we'd tried the slowly-slowly thing at that point we would just have gotten frustrated. We knew each other so well by then there was no point in waiting or delaying or exercising caution. I know your situation is different in that you have had a R break and are on LC rather than full-contact, so perhaps caution is what you feel most comfortable with. My view is that you know your R best, you know each other and how best to approach this transition in terms of what you're needing. There are no rules. Do what works for you.

 

If things all work out and you land up together, it will all have been history soon enough. And if you land up deciding to move on, it will be another experience to add to your collection. Enjoy it!

[Summer Breeze]

I'm really pleased for you AR. It sounds like you're doing really well with things and making clear and conscious decisions. You don't seem the type to not consider things clearly and you do seem the type to know your own mind.

 

I think that how you proceed after the A is very much an individual decision. No matter what anyone else says an A is very much a R and they are all very much unique. You have to proceed how it's best for you and your MM, cocorico did the same. I'm doing exactly the same. What works for any one of us may well not work for another.

 

MM was moved out and well on the way to the end of the D before I even knew about it. He wanted me to know what was going on and that he did want to try for a future with me. I've been LC with him and I've actually limited calls to number and duration. He's completely respected this request. He emails me a couple of times a day but I don't respond nearly as often. The D is now a few weeks away and the closer it's getting the more eager I am to see him and see where we go. I'd told him I wanted to wait till a few weeks after the D was final to actually meet up. I'm going to keep that agreement but I've decided that once it's final I'm going to cut the limit on calls, SMS, and emails. We had a huge connection and I'm now realizing how much I miss it. He's done everything on his own and I've never even been there to prompt him as to what to do. He's worked hard in counselling and he's dealt with the D without me being any part of it. He's actually offered for us to do counselling together too. He's done a lot of changing and I'm looking forward to getting to know him again.

 

Good luck to you AR. Keep in touch and it'll be interesting to compare notes over the next few months.

[Got it]

What is the saying? Someone can't give you closure, you give yourself closure.

 

AR - congrats on the forward process. You have all the time in the world, take it slow and enjoy the scenery.

[Summer Breeze]

You have to do what works for YOU not what others think you should do. I think you are making sure to look at all your options and that's never a bad idea. As long as you are feeling good about the exchanges, then that's good.

 

Someone said, "I don't pull away from others as they are getting divorced" and you know that's the truth. It's always been my barometer for some of my actions in my relationship.

Do I change plans for him? only if I'd do the same for someone else.

Do I get up early to talk to him? If I'd do the same for another friend.

That has always kept me from losing myself.

 

I think it's a good way to think about it when you make your choices.

 

 

Do you know what, I really like that. I have to say I've never thought of it in specific words but I can say I've lived it. Great words LFH.

[Summer Breeze]

Thanks, I think it's important. It's too easy to get wrapped up in THEIR worlds because they may have limitations. If he's free, and I have plans to go to a dinner I was dreading, I might cancel.. but I'd cancel if my sister had called too! If he is free and I have plans to go to a cocktail party I'm excited about, well... that's great he's free, he's welcome to join me, but I'm not canceling. Just like if my best friend had called. Keeps it simple and my head on straight.

 

 

I remember once I changed a weekend away that he'd planned for quite a while. A friend miscarried and her H was deployed so I went and stayed with her. He actually was very good. He stayed in a local B and B, and he was basically our errand boy. He never said a word about it and when he left he told me he was hurt when I told him about the change but he understood and at the end told me he admired me for being so loyal to her. I think if he'd even tried to give me a hard time I'd have told him to move on.

 

I do like that. Don't treat him any differently than you'd treat someone else you were close to.

[AnotherRound]

Thanks all... good insight and tips on this thread.

 

I think I figured out my hesitation here... finally. None of what would probably scare others scares me - the fact that he might cheat, etc. That stuff doesn't even phase me bc I honestly believe it's possible in ANY relationship, and is just part of the risk you take every time you enter into any relationship. (learned that the hard way by being absolutely convinced that my exH would NEVER cheat, and then he did!)

 

I think what is going on is that I had stopped looking at exMM as a lover - bc we haven't been lovers for so long. We always had contact, so the emotional bond was never broken. So, we were always friends. So now, even though his situation has changed, I'm still in "friend" mode with him - as I have been for the past year and a half. That's why I've been able to be so neutral, and so understanding - and why the convos about the divorce haven't felt necessarily "unhealthy".

 

So now, I guess my decision is, do we stay friends, or do we try to become lovers again? And honestly, I'm not sure about that one yet. I do love him, there is no doubt about that at all. I have missed him. But I've also had enough time away that I've been good with it all. And found out over that time that I'm pretty okay with just being his friend - that has felt very comfortable for me, I've liked it. I have missed the physical intimacy with him - but I'm wondering now, after so much time apart, if that will be different? If it's still there?

 

So, at least I FEEL like I'm making progress, even if I'm not... lol. I hadn't been able to put my finger on what was holding me back, and I think that now I have. That settles me a lot - as that was driving me crazy - trying to figure out where the confusion/hesitation was coming from.

 

I think that is the other reason I have felt some need to take it slow. Maybe bc somewhere in my head, I knew that we needed to work back up to that place, slowly, so that we could decide if that's really where we want to be. Maybe he feels that too? Maybe he is feeling that he is confused and hesitant too on some levels, and he is wondering why also? I haven't talked to him about that bc I just figured it out myself... lol.

 

So today, I woke up (after some really revealing dreams last night), with this whole new idea in my head. That as much as it would be "nice" on some levels to fall back in immediately - in reality, it's going to take some time, for both of us. And we may not even end up there again - we may end up as just friends. I know that sounds odd, and I know he has always said that with our attraction level that being "just friends" would be impossible. But right now? Right now, that's what he needs - a friend - not a lover necessarily. And I'm perfectly okay being that to him.

 

I feel SO much more settled now. I guess I was putting this pressure on myself, and us, that we had to be lovers or nothing. But in reality, we ARE friends, best friends - always have been. Able to talk about anything and everything so openly, and support one another - and understand one another. So, for now, that's what we will be. And that feels absolutely right to me. I don't feel confused at all now.

 

So glad I had that dream last night! lol It just kind of put everything into perspective for me. I woke up feeling like a HUGE weight has been lifted off of my shoulders. Woke up more clear headed regarding this than I have been since he first contacted me a couple of weeks ago.

 

I'm going to drop him an email, kind of summarizing it all. Let him know exactly where I am. I am wondering if this is where he has been the whole time, and just didn't realize it, or didn't say it to me for some reason? Maybe he thought that it would hurt my feelings or something? I don't know, but I'm feeling better about it.

 

So, I'm just going to go on with the confidence that we are "just" friends. I think that on some level, he is also watching my behaviors and actions, analyzing if this is something that will work for him. And, if I was to pull away all of my support, I know that would be so not how we have always related to one another, that he might then think that I am not interested in even being his friend.

 

I'll say it again - I will be so glad when the divorce is situated and finalized, so that everyone can get on with their lives - and hopefully find peace and happiness -whatever that may look like for each of us.

 

Thanks again!!!!

[AnotherRound]

ExMM called me yesterday and we spoke briefly - both of us at work and busy - as our lives tend to be!

 

He wanted to let me know that everything is settled - meaning, he and stbxw finally agreed on the buyout for the house and that was the final issue. So, he has instructed his attorney to "push it through". I asked him if his attorney was in agreement with him, and he said yes, and that she will be filing the paper work quickly and apparently is able to sort of push the divorce a bit faster.

 

He sounded better - more settled himself. He was pleased with the compromises they came to on the financial stuff - he accepts that he was going to lose out no matter which way he sliced it, but came out better than he thought he would. So, he's relieved about that.

 

As for me, I'm just glad that they have agreed on everything finally. I think taking 8 months (almost 9 now) to agree on things was a bit ridiculous, but the stbxw finally stopped trying to get more than her fair share. And, she will have to pay him back the large amount of money she took out of the joint account AFTER she filed (she tried to tuck it away, but he had receipts). So, he was happy about that too. Everything ended up almost exactly 50/50 as the attorneys said it would and had been trying to convince the stbxw that it was pointless to go for "more" bc we are in a no fault state anyways. And, she didn't even list adultery on the complaint anyway - it never came up in the court.

 

I feel relieved too. I just want it to be done with so that exMM can move on - get his bearings back. We didn't discuss anything about us, other than we both agreed that it was better that it was going to be over with soon. He asked if he could call me in a couple of days when work has died down and he has a chance to really talk. I said sure. He also said he had another appointment with his counselor and said that he thinks the counseling is going really well for him. He said he is learning a lot about himself and is trying hard to figure some things out and is learning how to handle things better.

 

So, it was a good short convo. I had to end it bc I had to get back to work - but we will talk in a few days. I have no idea from here how long it will take, but have heard anywhere from 30 to 90 days. He is hoping his attorney shoots for 30 and not 90, lol.

 

I just want him to be at peace and happy. I want him to look back and have no regrets - and want him to look forward and see nothing but opportunity. I hate that he feels like he has wasted so much of his life with the stbxw - and that he is realizing that he should have left a long time ago bc his child is doing so well now. I don't want him to obsess about the wasted time - bc he tends to be really hard on himself about stuff like that.

 

Anyway, just wanted to update anyone following my story. Thanks for all of the support - now I know what they mean when they say it's difficult to "go through the divorce" with an MM - and this is an EXMM! So, I can only imagine how frustrating it would be if he was a current MM that I had been in an active relationship with! I'm ready for the new year - and new beginnings, whatever it and they may bring!

[AnotherRound]

Thing is, he's not really an xMM. Maybe you're not having sex but your emotional connection to him is very evident.

 

I have an xMM. He and I remain in contact for professional reasons. If he were to go through a divorce now, it would not affect me at all.

 

If you're finding this difficult it's because you're still invested in him and my guess is, the outcome as well.

 

The parameters of your A have changed, that's all. Don't kid yourself. You've reinvested emotionally.

 

Oh, I've never said I'm not invested emotionally. I've simply said I'm not obsessing about it as some have accused me. I broke up with him a year and a half ago - that's why I call him an ExMM. As of now, he is legally separated, and living apart, and so I consider him a man who is in a divorce - not a committed married man.

 

And, I'm finding it difficult simply bc he asked me to see him again after the divorce is final. Had he not, it wouldn't be difficult at all for ME - other than just seeing him dealing with it. But, since he has expressed the intention of wanting to try to date me after the divorce - yes, I've invested in the process emotionally somewhat - bc it affects me directly at this point.

 

Like I said, he and I have never been NC - we have never stopped having our emotional connection - even though it was much less during the time we were apart. Lover or not, he IS my best friend and has been for many years now - and I have been the same for him. I've never denied that - and I didn't break up with him and stop loving him, so, I never denied that either.

 

And I've always said - I'm glad he's getting divorced - I'm glad for BOTH of them. They are two people who probably never should have been together - but hindsight, eh? I believe that they will both be MUCH happier (and their child who already is much happier!) apart from one another - I think it's sad it took such a crazy situation to get them to take action - but at least they are taking action, finally. Everyone will end up happier no matter who everyone ends up with or doesn't - I am willing to bet money on that one.

[2sunny]

Oh, I've never said I'm not invested emotionally. I've simply said I'm not obsessing about it as some have accused me. I broke up with him a year and a half ago - that's why I call him an ExMM. As of now, he is legally separated, and living apart, and so I consider him a man who is in a divorce - not a committed married man.

 

And, I'm finding it difficult simply bc he asked me to see him again after the divorce is final. Had he not, it wouldn't be difficult at all for ME - other than just seeing him dealing with it. But, since he has expressed the intention of wanting to try to date me after the divorce - yes, I've invested in the process emotionally somewhat - bc it affects me directly at this point.

 

Like I said, he and I have never been NC - we have never stopped having our emotional connection - even though it was much less during the time we were apart. Lover or not, he IS my best friend and has been for many years now - and I have been the same for him. I've never denied that - and I didn't break up with him and stop loving him, so, I never denied that either.

 

And I've always said - I'm glad he's getting divorced - I'm glad for BOTH of them. They are two people who probably never should have been together - but hindsight, eh? I believe that they will both be MUCH happier (and their child who already is much happier!) apart from one another - I think it's sad it took such a crazy situation to get them to take action - but at least they are taking action, finally. Everyone will end up happier no matter who everyone ends up with or doesn't - I am willing to bet money on that one.

 

But can't you see - you ARE obsessing just from the mere fact that YOU have so much information about THE marriage and divorce shows evidence that you're totally obsessing about his outcome.

 

And he's not been your EXmm because you've NEVER stopped communicating with him. Even when you weren't having sex with him - you took his phone calls...phone calls that allowed you to stay invested in what he was or wasn't doing with his wife and OOW.

 

When you stop any and all communication with him for an extended period of time - then and only then will you be capable of clearing your mind for neutrality about HIM and HIS life.

 

Until then - you are just in denial about how YOU ARE PARTICIPATING.

 

Stay away to gain clarity FOR YOURSELF - THAT would be contrary action that HELPS YOU to gain insight for YOUR best interest.

[veryhappy]

 

I'm going to drop him an email, kind of summarizing it all. Let him know exactly where I am.

 

This is just tongue-in cheek, but how does that look like?