Don't judge someone just because...

[eleanorrigby]

Fruits n' Nuts, California.

 

Hey I resemble that remark!

[MonsterMash]

Hey I resemble that remark!

 

:D

 

No offense intended of course...but there is a difference.

[SoMovinOn]

Others can say whatever they like... for some people, judging others is the only way they can feel better about themselves. It's totally a reflection on them, not on those whom they are judging.

 

As for how it affects you ... it only matters if you value their opinion.

[MonsterMash]

Others can say whatever they like... for some people, judging others is the only way they can feel better about themselves. It's totally a reflection on them, not on those whom they are judging.

 

As for how it affects you ... it only matters if you value their opinion.

 

And you just made my point for me. There are people out there who simply don't care how their actions affect others so long as they get what they want.

 

And we wonder why society is in the shape its in?

[Silly_Girl]

Wrong. Not everyone judges. I know you might like to think that, maybe to justify your own judgmental attitude, but nope, not everyone does. Having an opinion on something is NOT judging. I don't think judging means what you think it means... I'll get a definition of it so that we aren't spending the thread debating what judgment is, as the point of the thread was for OW/OMs to discuss how this quote made them feel.

 

Thanks...

 

AR, I have many posts that show there is a massive misunderstanding as to what 'being judgmental' means. As you say, forming an opinion (a judgment) is one thing, being judgmental... condemning others, feeling superior, rating someone as worthy or not, is something else entirely. And you can see as folk post which of the categories they fall in to.

[Silly_Girl]

Well, I don't sin, because I don't believe in god. I do find those that subscribe to religion to be some of the most judgemental though, so I think the quote is very interesting.

 

Agreed.

 

I saw the line 'only God does not judge', which to me is utterly laughable. The education I have had about religion is that God is THE judge and there is a hell of a lot of judging going on in the religion I was most closely linked with as I grew up.

[LadyGrey]

Do I make judgments about posters on here..........sure I do. Do I have opinions, absolutely. Do I think people make judgments about me by my posts.........sure they do. All we have here to measure someone by here at LS are their words. There are people here, who I'm very happy that I don't know in real life and then there are others here, that I'm proud to have gotten a glimpse into their life and thrilled that I can call them an online friend.

 

These kind of threads always make me want to say..........pot meet kettle.

[woinlove]

As for how it affects you ... it only matters if you value their opinion.

 

I agree with this, or one might add, if their opinion and what they say, twigs something in yourself.

 

I think it does say something that you, AR, started a thread saying one shouldn't judge someone for being an OW/OM. Perhaps more accurately the statement should be you think no one should judge the behavior of a person who decides to be an OW/OM.

 

I would not start a thread saying people shouldn't judge others for being in an open M, even though I know many people find it goes against their religious or moral beliefs and the few times I participated in threads specifically on that topic, I heard plenty of that. Why would I, since I am confident in my choice, I know others would choose different, and my choice honors my own values of honesty, treating others as I would like to be treated, loyalty, etc.

 

So, what is it makes you feel uncomfortable about the fact that some people find the dishonesty and betrayal in secret affairs to be unethical and think if you want to treat others well and be honest and encourage it in those near you, that you should not participate in secret affairs?

[woinlove]

 

These kind of threads always make me want to say..........pot meet kettle.

 

Yes, these threads usually come with a lot of that, but more, it makes me think what is eating them internally and what can they do to feel more confident with their own choices? As I said I would not ask anyone not to judge my behavior for being in an open M, because I am confident in my choices and it really doesn't matter that others think differently. I think it only matters when it connects to some doubt or resonates with the person.

[AnotherRound]

I agree with this, or one might add, if their opinion and what they say, twigs something in yourself.

 

I think it does say something that you, AR, started a thread saying one shouldn't judge someone for being an OW/OM. Perhaps more accurately the statement should be you think no one should judge the behavior of a person who decides to be an OW/OM.

 

I would not start a thread saying people shouldn't judge others for being in an open M, even though I know many people find it goes against their religious or moral beliefs and the few times I participated in threads specifically on that topic, I heard plenty of that. Why would I, since I am confident in my choice, I know others would choose different, and my choice honors my own values of honesty, treating others as I would like to be treated, loyalty, etc.

 

So, what is it makes you feel uncomfortable about the fact that some people find the dishonesty and betrayal in secret affairs to be unethical and think if you want to treat others well and be honest and encourage it in those near you, that you should not participate in secret affairs?

 

I didn't start a thread that said to not judge OW/OMs. I started a thread about a quote about judgment and asked OW/OM to respond as they often end up being judged for their participation in affairs.

 

The fact that so many people took it as me saying "don't judge OW/OMS" or "don't judge me" is telling.

 

I don't feel uncomfortable at all. I was not involved in a deceitful affair. It was a quote that I read, that I really related to, bc it is how I live my life - not judging others bc I know that I have no right, as we ALL live in glass houses and have our own faults and flaws. It was nothing more than that.

[AnotherRound]

AR, I have many posts that show there is a massive misunderstanding as to what 'being judgmental' means. As you say, forming an opinion (a judgment) is one thing, being judgmental... condemning others, feeling superior, rating someone as worthy or not, is something else entirely. And you can see as folk post which of the categories they fall in to.

 

This is EXACTLY how I interpreted that "judge" in the quote. And, this is exactly how I life my life. I think that sometimes, I forget that the general population doesn't have access to the inner most thoughts of their neighbors and peers as I do. The things that I have learned about people through my work, has proven again and again, that we ALL have inner secrets, and thoughts and feelings, and "sins". And that there is so much complexity in each and every human, that it's impossible to weigh out "good" or "bad" and classify them.

 

I think it's interesting that so many people took this thread as me saying anything about not judging me or not judging OW/OMs. Reading comprehension is such an important skill, and the fact that their comprehension was so colored by their own insecurities (their need to judge others, and their need to reserve that right bc "everyone" does it), is very interesting to me.

 

And, whenever I think about judgment, I think, how exhausting. Why would I want to add to my already full plate the additional job of judging my fellow humans? And deciding if they are worthy or good or bad? And at the end of the day, how would I even know? I have people spill their souls to me, and I STILL don't make a judgment about them. I listen, I help them process, and I always see them as a mixture of "good" and "bad". I never classify them as "bad" people. If anything, I tend to lean towards they are all "good" people who sometimes make bad decisions. I don't condemn any of them, and I have worked with some folks who have done some pretty horrific things in their lives.

 

And that's the other lead in - that I think I am exposed to so many horrifying situations in this world (in my personal life as a child, and now as an adult who works with criminals and the mentally ill) that the everyday run of the mill stuff seems so... mild? So, when I hear people saying (in this thread, even though it wasn't the topic) that adultery participation makes someone "bad" - I have a hard time understanding it, bc in the grand scheme of things, it is VERY mild to what people COULD be doing. Not to mention that in this thread, and on the OW/OM forum, I hear so much condemnation of the AP - but then in the same breath they are saying that the WS is "redeemable" and "good" but the AP is "bad". And that is interesting to me in that it is such an obvious disconnect. If I was a judgmental person, I would rank the WS as "worse" than the AP, in that they are the ones who are breaking a promise to someone else (if they are, and it's not a special situation), whereas the AP is just an "accomplice". I wonder how many criminals are charged with a "worse" crime when they are the "accomplice" and not the main criminal - the murderers, the child molesters, the bank robbers. Are their accomplices "worse" than they are bc they witnessed the murder and didn't stop it, lured the child to the child molester, or drove the getaway car?

 

Interesting stuff... thanks for answering. I really wish that these threads didn't get jacked all the time by people who can't just read it for what it is and have no ability to see beyond their own blinders to the bigger world, where they are NOT the center of the universe. I am SO glad that I don't see the world that way - as if everything is a personal affront to me, or that everything revolves around me, or that everything that is said is somehow about me... exhausting!

[Woggle]

It's easy to say don't judge when you are not on the receiving end of cheating and infidelity. In fact you can say that in many ways BS are being judged for how they react to a painful betrayal. It seems some people want them not be human and just say no big deal to it.

[woinlove]

I didn't start a thread that said to not judge OW/OMs. I started a thread about a quote about judgment and asked OW/OM to respond as they often end up being judged for their participation in affairs.

 

The fact that so many people took it as me saying "don't judge OW/OMS" or "don't judge me" is telling.

 

I don't feel uncomfortable at all. I was not involved in a deceitful affair. It was a quote that I read, that I really related to, bc it is how I live my life - not judging others bc I know that I have no right, as we ALL live in glass houses and have our own faults and flaws. It was nothing more than that.

 

Telling you what? I suspect it tells you what you wanted to see.

 

Same diff as to how people respond to this thread and what you say you wanted to ask about. I didn't care what other people thought when I was an OW and I never felt judged by them. I knew some people thought the deception was wrong and I simply didn't care because I didn't connect enough to others to care that MM had to lie and how his BW was being treated.

 

I'd say for any OW/OM, the problem is definitely not what other people say it is what he/she feels and thinks.

[AnotherRound]

It's easy to say don't judge when you are not on the receiving end of cheating and infidelity. In fact you can say that in many ways BS are being judged for how they react to a painful betrayal. It seems some people want them not be human and just say no big deal to it.

 

I have been the BW too, and I still didn't judge. So, I don't think it's a matter of where in the triangle you fall, but more of a personality issue. And I find it interesting that there seem to be (no official statistics here, just my observations) more folks on the BS part of the triangle that tend to judge (as in condemn others for their behaviors), than on the OM/OW side of the triangle.

 

And I never said it was easy to "not judge". I have to make a conscious attempt sometimes NOT to judge, bc it seems really easy to just condemn people instead of trying to understand why they do what they do - and to realize that my "sins" are no better or no worse than theirs. It takes an effort to analyze everything, and realize that there are pieces of their puzzle that I will NEVER have access to, therefore, cannot judge.

 

In regards to this, I find that many people who do judge (condemn) often tell themselves that "everyone" is doing it. That reasoning makes no sense to me. It reminds me of my Mom saying, "if everyone was jumping off a bridge, would you do it too?"... lol. And I used to answer, no, I would NOT, regardless of what everyone else is doing. Of course, my Mom raised me that I was no better and no worse than anyone else, and that has stuck with me through my life. Again, I'm thankful that I had very progressive and open minded parents, as I think living the other way would be exhausting and frustrating.

[Radagast]

Now I ask you....do you think society functions better *now* with more people not judging the actions of others? Or is society as a whole breaking down because fewer and fewer people don't judge?

 

I think society now is massively improved on "60 years ago" or any other historic period you may wish to class as a "golden age". Back then, homosexuality was viewed as a crime or an illness (varied by country), women were heavily discriminated against in the workplace in terms of permanence of position, equality of pay, etc, many countries in Latin America and Africa were still in the tyrannical grip of colonialism, children had fewer rights and child abuse and neglect did not enjoy the kind of attention they receive now, smoking was freely allowed in workplaces and public spaces, subjecting millions to painful deaths from the effects of environmental tobacco smoke, workplaces were more hazardous and workers had fewer rights... I could go on and on. And yes, those injustices were all based on judgments - the judgment that one race / class / gender / sexual orientation / nation / religion was worthier than another. Point being, while it may have been perceived as "better" by some of those who benefited from the exploitation and abuse of others, for all those others who were abused and exploited it was far from better. (Kinda like asking a former slave if she preferred life before liberation!) And why should the view of a few be privileged over the contrary view of the masses of others?

 

But, back on topic:

 

OW/OMs, thoughts on this? Is this what you were trying to say too? Or, how do you feel about the quote? Does it hit home for you?

 

I suppose I am someone who does weigh some "sins" (or crimes or deviances or whatever) more heavily than others. To me the impact matters. If you drive drunk and kill somebody, that's far worse in my view than being late back from your lunch break, because the magnitude of the consequence is so much bigger. If you cheat on your tax return, I'd say that's far worse than being unfaithful, because infidelity impacts only one person whereas tax fraud impacts an entire nation. If you smoke indoors in your home and you have children or pets, to me that is worse than taking a library book back late because in the former case, the consequences are borne by innocent others, whereas in the latter case, the consequences are typically only borne by the "offender".

 

I do agree that in making judgments without knowing all the circumstances one is laying oneself open to be proven very wrong, but my ranking is based on the assumption of all other things being equal.

[AnotherRound]

AnotherRound, what is the difference between an opinion and a judgement to you?

 

Good question. To me, I can have an opinion on someone's behavior - and it usually results in me thinking if I would do the same or not. A judgment is having an opinion on someone's behavior AND concluding that my opinion is correct and condemning that person for a behavior that I am convinced is "wrong" or "evil" or "worse than" any behavior that I have done. Therefore, concluding that I am a "better" person and they are a "worse" person bc of that.

 

I think it is impossible to know everything about another person, and their experiences and choices, to the extent that I can "judge" them as a person. For instance, I would not murder someone, for any reason. BUT, I can understand why someone would possibly murder someone that has molested their children. That is not the route I would take (I don't think, as I've never been in that position), but it doesn't make me conclude that the person who does, or would, is a "bad" person. Just that they have a different belief, or reaction to something than I do.

 

I cannot think of any "sin" that could not be understandable in some situation, every single time. So, to me, there is no "sin" that condemns a person in my mind - or that would make me think that a person is "bad". Even people with Antisocial Personality Disorder are not "bad" in my mind. They do bad things, but I understand the mental illness (and often times the experiences that tapped into that weakness and brought out the APD) and how it works in them, and can always find good in them. Therefore, in my mind, nobody is all good, or all bad. It's that pesky gray area again

 

It truly does seem to be a different way to view the world. And I know that some believe that it is some sort of justification for "bad" behavior, but I totally disagree. I think it is a different, more understanding, world view of our fellow humans. And I don't expect others to live by this, my world view, but it is interesting to me that even THAT is judged by those who seem to be "judgmental".

[AnotherRound]

Telling you what? I suspect it tells you what you wanted to see.

 

Same diff as to how people respond to this thread and what you say you wanted to ask about. I didn't care what other people thought when I was an OW and I never felt judged by them. I knew some people thought the deception was wrong and I simply didn't care because I didn't connect enough to others to care that MM had to lie and how his BW was being treated.

 

I'd say for any OW/OM, the problem is definitely not what other people say it is what he/she feels and thinks.

 

What is it that you think I "wanted to see"? How can you possibly know what I wanted to see, if anything? What if you are incorrect, and there was absolutely nothing I wanted to see other than what I said? The reaction of OW/OMs to the quote that I had found... why are you convinced that I was trying to do anything other than what I said?

 

I never insinuated that I cared about what other people thought of me, and I was not involved in a deceitful affair, so this really didn't apply to me. I am very thick skinned (a requirement for what I do professionally in a brutal field), and I sleep well at night with my choices, or I wouldn't make the ones that I do/have. It wasn't about me, I was curious to see if any OW/OM had the same reaction to the quote that I did as the quote struck a nerve with my world view - not just my view of affairs, but how I view everything in the world.

 

I'm not one to beat around the bush. So, if I wanted to say "don't judge me" or "don't judge OW/OMs", I would have just said that. lol I have no idea why anyone would look at the quote, and decide that I was attempting to say either of those things. Of course people who want to judge others are free to do so, why would I even attempt to change that? It's not my place, it is their right... it just isn't how I live my life. And wasn't the way I lived my life even prior to participating in an affair. The affair part of it was irrelevant, other than I was curious about other OW/OMs who may have agreed (or disagreed) with the quote, and was interested to see how many did or didn't agree with it.

[woinlove]

Good question. To me, I can have an opinion on someone's behavior - and it usually results in me thinking if I would do the same or not. A judgment is having an opinion on someone's behavior AND concluding that my opinion is correct and condemning that person for a behavior that I am convinced is "wrong" or "evil" or "worse than" any behavior that I have done. Therefore, concluding that I am a "better" person and they are a "worse" person bc of that.

 

Your definition sounds a bit garbled with your use of the word "or" and the conclusion you add seems like an extra definition. How many of these conditions need to be met to be a judgement to you? What is your definition of condemning, because using the dictionary defintions one can judge without condemning. Do they mean the same thing do you.

 

And did you really mean "or"? I.e., do you really think someone saying to slap a person in anger is wrong is in the same category as saying to slap a person in anger is evil and therefore they are a better person and you are a worse person for slapping someone?

[AnotherRound]

I think society now is massively improved on "60 years ago" or any other historic period you may wish to class as a "golden age". Back then, homosexuality was viewed as a crime or an illness (varied by country), women were heavily discriminated against in the workplace in terms of permanence of position, equality of pay, etc, many countries in Latin America and Africa were still in the tyrannical grip of colonialism, children had fewer rights and child abuse and neglect did not enjoy the kind of attention they receive now, smoking was freely allowed in workplaces and public spaces, subjecting millions to painful deaths from the effects of environmental tobacco smoke, workplaces were more hazardous and workers had fewer rights... I could go on and on. And yes, those injustices were all based on judgments - the judgment that one race / class / gender / sexual orientation / nation / religion was worthier than another. Point being, while it may have been perceived as "better" by some of those who benefited from the exploitation and abuse of others, for all those others who were abused and exploited it was far from better. (Kinda like asking a former slave if she preferred life before liberation!) And why should the view of a few be privileged over the contrary view of the masses of others?

 

But, back on topic:

 

 

 

I suppose I am someone who does weigh some "sins" (or crimes or deviances or whatever) more heavily than others. To me the impact matters. If you drive drunk and kill somebody, that's far worse in my view than being late back from your lunch break, because the magnitude of the consequence is so much bigger. If you cheat on your tax return, I'd say that's far worse than being unfaithful, because infidelity impacts only one person whereas tax fraud impacts an entire nation. If you smoke indoors in your home and you have children or pets, to me that is worse than taking a library book back late because in the former case, the consequences are borne by innocent others, whereas in the latter case, the consequences are typically only borne by the "offender".

 

I do agree that in making judgments without knowing all the circumstances one is laying oneself open to be proven very wrong, but my ranking is based on the assumption of all other things being equal.

 

Agreed. I think I daily give thanks to the universe that I live now and not "back then", lol. Maybe that's the link? That people who are nostalgic for the past (the golden age, the Leave it to Beaver times) are more prone to be judgmental? That would make sense, as the world is changing and some are able to keep up with the changes, and others are fighting it tooth and nail - bc they are convinced that back then was "better". I disagree. I think now is better, and I like the way we as a society are going. I'm SO ready to have a more progressive population, with less judgment of those around them.

 

I agree that certain ranking is likely to happen when it comes to behaviors. I'm not a religious person, but understand that there are 10 commandments about sins - I guess those are the biggest sins? So, those are what I was thinking of. I forget what they are called now, but they are supposedly the ones that will stop you from getting to heaven I guess? So, to me, that ranking is built into some people's lives already, and makes them prone to have this need to rank everything in life (like the other thread on pain, and how many immediately began to rank pain, which is totally subjective).

 

But to me, everyone has broken one of those commandments at one time or another in their life. And again, I'm not a religious person, but I know a lot of people buy into that, so I'm wondering why those that do (especially) believe that they have the right to judge others behaviors. Are the ten commandments listed in rank order? Like best to worst, or vice versa? (I honestly have no idea, or if they are all considered equal - I'm not even sure what they all are, but can remember a few of them). And if they are considered to be equal, why would any human presume to rank them? If they are equal, wouldn't going against god by deciding that some are worse than others be sacrilege? I mean, if I believed in a god, I would probably trust him/her/it to know which "sins" were better or worse or whatever, and wouldn't presume to know more than my god and start tossing judgment around to my fellow humans. But that's just me, I guess.

 

In my mind, a "sin" is something that can be ranked. Too many variables to be considered in each situation. A drunk driver could do so all the time and never kill anyone. Or, they could kill a busload of people. Does the outcome make the actual sin - drunk driving - worse or better? Or, can drunk driving be "okay" if nobody is killed, but "you're going to hell bad" if a busload is killed? And if that's the case, wouldn't ALL sins have to be ranked like this? Considering the variables and the outcomes? And if that's true, how can anyone say that one is worse than the other without knowing those details? See what I mean? It could go on FOREVER... lol.

 

Again, exhausting. I guess that's enough philosophical thinking for today, lol. And, I appreciate those that can participate in theoretical and philosophical discussions, but it appears that I'm getting more people that cannot than can, so that's disappointing as I do enjoy a good philosophical discussion on these types of matters!

[AnotherRound]

I think there's a very fine line between judgment and opinion. Anotherround, you DO judge. For instance, you judge women whom you think pull the "bait and switch", you judge the men who complain about their wives (although you judge them in a better light.)

 

By saying that betrayed spouses are judgmental as a whole, you are judging.

 

LFH, by saying the same about those of us who believe in God, you are judging.

 

I'm ok with that, though. Just don't get holier than thou and say how perfectly wonderful you are because you don't judge. You do.

 

I could say that based on MY experiences that OW are very judgmental, but then say that I'm not judging because it's only my opinion. I can turn anything into an "opinion" if I want to, but in reality, it's a judgment.

 

You're taking that fine line between judgment and opinion and really twisting it.

 

I disagree. I'm expressing what I observe, and having an opinion on it. I am NOT condemning those people bc of my opinion. I am NOT concluding that they are "bad" people. That is the difference in my mind.

 

I get a lot of posts here from angry and hurt people. They lash out. I do not consider them "bad" people. That would be judgment. Basing their worth on their behaviors. I can have an opinion on a behavior (that it's unnecessary, that it's unhealthy, that it is wasted energy) and not have an opinion/judgment on what type of person that behavior makes someone.

 

I guess for me, it's a matter of knowing that I can't know everything, therefore accepting that I am in no position to make a judgment call on whether or not a person is "good" or "bad" or "worthy". And at the end of the day, even not believing in a god, I don't think it's my place or my job.

 

As for the examples you give, I do not see that as judgment. I see it as observations and opinions, in that it stops there. I don't go further with it and condemn a person. That is the distinction I guess.

[AnotherRound]

Your definition sounds a bit garbled with your use of the word "or" and the conclusion you add seems like an extra definition. How many of these conditions need to be met to be a judgement to you? What is your definition of condemning, because using the dictionary defintions one can judge without condemning. Do they mean the same thing do you.

 

And did you really mean "or"? I.e., do you really think someone saying to slap a person in anger is wrong is in the same category as saying to slap a person in anger is evil and therefore they are a better person and you are a worse person for slapping someone?

 

To me, being judgmental means having an opinion of someone and then using that opinion to determine someone's worth. That is the extra step that has to happen in order for an opinion to become a judgment to me. If someone said that their opinion of me is that I made a bad choice in participating in an affair, that is far different than someone saying that I AM a bad person bc I participated in an affair.

 

To me, we are all capable of making bad decisions, and we all do. So having the self-righteousness to assume that my sins are "better" than someone else's, or using comparison to determine another human's worth is foreign to me. I just don't do it. I don't even begin to assume that I can or should do it. I just don't believe that I have the right to do so. I do not begrudge others their feeling that they have the "right" to do so, to each his own. But I would not feel good about myself as a person if I went around deciding other human's worth. I wouldn't sleep well at night thinking that I had the authority to do so, it just wouldn't settle for me bc I would be convinced that I didn't have nearly enough information (ever!) to do so.

 

Isn't there something in the bible about hating the sin and not the sinner? I think I heard that somewhere, and that would be kind of what I am saying. That a bad decision (or sin) does not mean that the person deserves to be condemned by other humans who are just as faulty as the "sinner" is.

[woinlove]

To me, being judgmental means having an opinion of someone and then using that opinion to determine someone's worth. That is the extra step that has to happen in order for an opinion to become a judgment to me. If someone said that their opinion of me is that I made a bad choice in participating in an affair, that is far different than someone saying that I AM a bad person bc I participated in an affair.

 

 

Okay, that clears it up for me. I have no interest at all in deciding whether anyone is a good person or a bad person, even those terms mean little to me. I do think in terms of good/bad/positive/negative/constructive/harmful/etc behaviors and, of course, depending on what I decide about a person's behaviors and the values they reflect, I may want them close to me or not. If someone repeatedly and consistently behaves badly, typically, I just keep them out of my life as much as possible.

 

But labelling good/bad people, I'm not interested and I don't pay any attention when someone says "I am a good person but..." or "You are a bad person because...". What follows the "but" and the "because" can interest me, but not the good/bad person preamble. Sometimes people are a bit sloppy/careless and it is clear from their post that they mean "I think I do good things for others" or "I think you are behaving badly toward others". Sometimes it is just shorthand for a sum of a lot of good or bad behavior.

 

Having said that, since I really am not interested and those labels don't carry meaning for me (except possibly as shorthand for what I explained) when someone does use the term good/bad person, it just goes right by me. Could not care less. I don't pay attention to everything posted on LS and even posts that interest me, I don't necessarily pay attention to the entire post. I think that is pretty typical.

 

So...now that you've explained what you mean by judgement in the context of this thread, do you really care about this topic (I guess so, since you started a thread) and why do you care? That is a genuine question.

[AnotherRound]

Okay, that clears it up for me. I have no interest at all in deciding whether anyone is a good person or a bad person, even those terms mean little to me. I do think in terms of good/bad/positive/negative/constructive/harmful/etc behaviors and, of course, depending on what I decide about a person's behaviors and the values they reflect, I may want them close to me or not. If someone repeatedly and consistently behaves badly, typically, I just keep them out of my life as much as possible.

 

But labelling good/bad people, I'm not interested and I don't pay any attention when someone says "I am a good person but..." or "You are a bad person because...". What follows the "but" and the "because" can interest me, but not the good/bad person preamble. Sometimes people are a bit sloppy/careless and it is clear from their post that they mean "I think I do good things for others" or "I think you are behaving badly toward others". Sometimes it is just shorthand for a sum of a lot of good or bad behavior.

 

Having said that, since I really am not interested and those labels don't carry meaning for me (except possibly as shorthand for what I explained) when someone does use the term good/bad person, it just goes right by me. Could not care less. I don't pay attention to everything posted on LS and even posts that interest me, I don't necessarily pay attention to the entire post. I think that is pretty typical.

 

So...now that you've explained what you mean by judgement in the context of this thread, do you really care about this topic (I guess so, since you started a thread) and why do you care? That is a genuine question.

 

It wasn't so much this topic, as much as the reaction to the quote. I love words, and quotes sometimes just strike me - this one did. It just kind of summed up my beliefs and view of judgment and ranking of "sins", etc. So, I thought I would share the quote and see if anyone else was stricken the same as me, or didn't agree, or whatever.

[woinlove]

as for the hubris of those who say " I never judge others, but most everyone else does"...the irony of that sentiment is so obvious it's almost laughable...

 

This is worth repeating. Even replacing the "most everyone" with "some others" it is worth repeating.

 

However, I think what might be behind this is some people's own questions of themselves, their behavior, who they are and who they want to be. In the end, the judgement that really matters is what we each think of ourselves. (Putting aside religion and the idea of a supreme being judging us.) I think people who are struggling with those internal questions (consciously or in a suppressed way) are interested in trying to establish which opinions of others are worthy and which are not by labelling some judgements and others not, because there is something there they are shying away from. When one comes from a position of confidence, it is easy to read all the different opinions, agree with some, disagree with others, and not get into judging others as being judgemental or not.

[LadyGrey]

I agree with much of bringontherain's post.

 

There is a very fine line between judging and an opinion. The line is often blurred. Actually I would say that one must make some sort of a judgement call in order to have an opinion.

 

A judgement is in itself not a bad thing, it's a necessary part of any choice in life.

 

Perhaps what AR is trying to say is that she doesn't like harsh opinions/judgments bestowed upon a ow,especially when it's seems to be pointed in her direction. Maybe she see's herself as being the victim of someone bringing a critical judgement upon her.

 

I find it incredibly ironic AR in that in your posts indicate that you are yourself very harsh in your own opinions/judgments about your mm's wife, religion, sahm's, alimony, etc. and the final icing on the cake is when you feel your opinion is not being received well, you then seem to deflect with how you are misunderstood and that people who have differing opinions are not as enlightened as you are. As I said........pot meet kettle.