Thoughts on Affair Appreciated...

[StormySeas]

While I'm in marriage counseling right now, I don't really have anyone to talk to outside of our therapist. So I would just like some good honest feedback from a world of folks that have some experiences that may be helpful.

 

2.5 years ago, a woman joined our close circle of friends. She was friends with me and my spouse. Apparently better friends with my spouse. They very quickly struck up a very inappropriate sexting relationship, etc. I confronted my spouse about the affair two years ago when we entered counseling for the first time. It was a very painful few months, and he argued time and time again that they were just friends, there was nothing inappropriate, etc.

 

Fast forward to this year, and I found out from another friend that it wasn't just an emotional affair, and that my husband had cheated. He has now, finally, seemed to have let all of the truth out. They had sex twice. I know the details of their correspondence as well, and finally feel like everything might be on the table.

 

It was a very difficult time for us 2.5 years ago, with a young son with colic and my husband was not ready to be a father. He was really just worthless when it came to our son and started going out a lot with to deal with everythin at home falling apart. I thought I was the better caregiver so just gave up on really making him do anything, while letting him know that I thought he was a terrible father and husband. So our relationship was just in such an awful place when this woman came into our lives. I have some responsibility for how I handled my husband's shortcomings as a father and for not handling that in a better manner. I certainly share some of the blame for allowing our relationship to get to such an awful place without seeking outside help.

 

The bottom line, of course, is he cheated. Twice. Plus carried on a many months emotional affair while this woman was supposed to be my friend and was in my home many times, with our son, etc.

 

I have made mistakes as well. I drank much too much at work function and kissed someone a year and a half ago. Meaningless and stupid, but clearly very hurtful.

 

My husband has been a tremendous father and spouse since all the crap came out two years ago. But I struggle with the fact that he lied over and over again (honestly a hundred times) to my face when asked if there had been anything sexual. Clearly he thought that it would cost him his marriage and hid behind lies. So 2 years ago, I think if I'd known everything, I would have put bets on getting a divorce. Now? We are in a much better place, although one that was still haunted by an incredible set of lies and deception until the truth came out very recently. A truth that came out as a result of someone else around us, not my husband finally confessing. I firmly believe that he would never cheat again, as we've been in marriage counseling since and have really figured out how to properly communicate, etc. and he is incredibly remorseful. Of course this place we're in of a "better marriage" still had two lies underpinning it -- his lie about what had actually taken place, and the fact that I never came clean about the kiss at the work function until everything about his affair came to light.

 

I'm confused, hurt, angry, and scared of the future. The decision to leave or stay isn't easy. It isn't just about our son, but obviously that is an important consideration. I wouldn't stay just for our son, but I will take the time to think before leaving solely because of our son.

 

Part of me feels like a weak and battered woman for even thinking of staying. I am an incredibly strong woman in every facet of my life other than as it realates to this situation...and this situation just brings me to my knees in agony.

 

So I guess I'm just looking for feedback. Thoughts on your experiences, getting over things, not getting over things, etc. I know that I can scroll through tons of threads to get this information, but would appreciate responses to my specific situation. Plus I'm feeling way over extended with work, home, etc. and just don't the capacity right now to scroll all over the internet to find something that might help me.

 

Thank you.

[BetrayedH]

While I'm in marriage counseling right now, I don't really have anyone to talk to outside of our therapist. So I would just like some good honest feedback from a world of folks that have some experiences that may be helpful.

 

2.5 years ago, a woman joined our close circle of friends. She was friends with me and my spouse. Apparently better friends with my spouse. They very quickly struck up a very inappropriate sexting relationship, etc. I confronted my spouse about the affair two years ago when we entered counseling for the first time. It was a very painful few months, and he argued time and time again that they were just friends, there was nothing inappropriate, etc.

 

Fast forward to this year, and I found out from another friend that it wasn't just an emotional affair, and that my husband had cheated. He has now, finally, seemed to have let all of the truth out. They had sex twice. I know the details of their correspondence as well, and finally feel like everything might be on the table.

 

It was a very difficult time for us 2.5 years ago, with a young son with colic and my husband was not ready to be a father. He was really just worthless when it came to our son and started going out a lot with to deal with everythin at home falling apart. I thought I was the better caregiver so just gave up on really making him do anything, while letting him know that I thought he was a terrible father and husband. So our relationship was just in such an awful place when this woman came into our lives. I have some responsibility for how I handled my husband's shortcomings as a father and for not handling that in a better manner. I certainly share some of the blame for allowing our relationship to get to such an awful place without seeking outside help.

 

The bottom line, of course, is he cheated. Twice. Plus carried on a many months emotional affair while this woman was supposed to be my friend and was in my home many times, with our son, etc.

 

I have made mistakes as well. I drank much too much at work function and kissed someone a year and a half ago. Meaningless and stupid, but clearly very hurtful.

 

My husband has been a tremendous father and spouse since all the crap came out two years ago. But I struggle with the fact that he lied over and over again (honestly a hundred times) to my face when asked if there had been anything sexual. Clearly he thought that it would cost him his marriage and hid behind lies. So 2 years ago, I think if I'd known everything, I would have put bets on getting a divorce. Now? We are in a much better place, although one that was still haunted by an incredible set of lies and deception until the truth came out very recently. A truth that came out as a result of someone else around us, not my husband finally confessing. I firmly believe that he would never cheat again, as we've been in marriage counseling since and have really figured out how to properly communicate, etc. and he is incredibly remorseful. Of course this place we're in of a "better marriage" still had two lies underpinning it -- his lie about what had actually taken place, and the fact that I never came clean about the kiss at the work function until everything about his affair came to light.

 

I'm confused, hurt, angry, and scared of the future. The decision to leave or stay isn't easy. It isn't just about our son, but obviously that is an important consideration. I wouldn't stay just for our son, but I will take the time to think before leaving solely because of our son.

 

Part of me feels like a weak and battered woman for even thinking of staying. I am an incredibly strong woman in every facet of my life other than as it realates to this situation...and this situation just brings me to my knees in agony.

 

So I guess I'm just looking for feedback. Thoughts on your experiences, getting over things, not getting over things, etc. I know that I can scroll through tons of threads to get this information, but would appreciate responses to my specific situation. Plus I'm feeling way over extended with work, home, etc. and just don't the capacity right now to scroll all over the internet to find something that might help me.

 

Thank you.

 

"Trickle-truthing" is common and devastating. The wayward fails to understand that the ongoing problem is the inability of the BS to trust the WS. We can forgive but we have to feel like the WS is going to be honest from here on out.

 

The WS is almost never honest after an affair is discovered. Their pattern is so ingrained to lie, deny, minimize, and lie some more that they just keep doing it and justify it to themselves as "protecting" their BS by "living with their own guilt" as punishment. It is absolutely disastrous because we just want the bandaid ripped the hell off and to be allowed to process what the real situation is so we can make a decision. When they keep lying to us, we feel we will never be able to trust them. The lying is so much worse that the pain of the truth. Idiots.

 

Many people survive trickle-truth and continue reconciling. Sadly, you are probably the only one that can determine if you feel you have an honest man in front of you and if you can forgive him for what has happened already.

 

Can you believe that you now have all of the truth? Do you believe they only had sex twice? What does your gut tell you?

[Spark1111]

OMG!

 

We were happily reconciling, doing all the work and it was all good.

We had just come home from a very positive MC session, and I felt I could now trust him to ask other than blank, where did you take her?

 

And he looked me in the eyes and said.... nowhere.

 

A month later, I discover this to be a lie as I am still poring over his old cell phone bills.

 

He arrived at my office an hour later to surprise me...and I don't remember this too clearly, but I believe I shoved him and told him to never come back.

 

I was incredulous, cried, raging, and I almost divorced over this one lie MORE than any other one.

 

He said, I didn't want to lose you....

 

That one stupid lie cost him so much.

 

I never realized what a weak and frightened person he was. I thought the sun rose and set on his shoulders. He did not have to tell this lie. It gave me a sorry glimpse into his personality. It was very sad for me.

 

Today we are happily reconciled. Only you can decide what you can or cannot live with.

 

Only you.

[StormySeas]

Thank you very much for your replies.

 

I think I know the truth now, and can't see the point in telling me they had sex twice if it was really five times or ten times or whatever. The pile of crap is so high that I don't think that would make it any higher.

 

What makes this a difficult situation is that since he went NC (I'm picking up the LS lingo!) two years ago, he has been contrite, sympathetic, understanding, and the man that I really thought he would be. Of course I have great difficulty in knowing that he was also carrying these monumental lies with him over that period of time. I knew there was more too, and probed at various times (often after a couple of glasses of wine), but never got the truth.

 

My head tells me that I'm a moron. That I am an incredible woman that doesn't deserve any of this and should not consider reconciliation. My heart is conflicted by the fact that my H is finally bonding with our son in a positive way (a separation and/or divorce may destroy this if I know my son, even without me ever mentioning a negative word about his father); that I do still love him very much; that I can believe that it would not happen again (my head obviously disagrees with this!); and that 5 years of hard work to get through this could still lead to a lifetime of happiness. Will this ever go away or be forgotten? Of course not.

 

So...I don't know...don't really know which way is up and which way is down. Don't know how I got my pants on this morning to come to work. Don't know how I snuggled, laughed and just enjoyed our son last night and this morning when I just wanted to hide under the covers and cry my eyes out.

[Spark1111]

All those feelings are normal, unfortunately. That's the rollercoaster we all get to ride, whether we reconcile or divorce.

 

Of course you didn't deserve it, no one does.

 

And I think you are being way too hard on yourself. It may have been 2.5 years since you discovered the EA.

 

But the recovery clock resets to zero when undisclosed info is discovered.

 

You go right back to the beginning and start all over.

 

I think you need to ask your H if there is ANYTHING ELSE he needs to tell you about his affair; that discovering any more lies or omissions of fact send you back to square one.

 

That you want and need to trust him to stay married to him, but it is killing you.

 

Ask him. Ball in his court then.

[BetrayedH]

All those feelings are normal, unfortunately. That's the rollercoaster we all get to ride, whether we reconcile or divorce.

 

Of course you didn't deserve it, no one does.

 

And I think you are being way too hard on yourself. It may have been 2.5 years since you discovered the EA.

 

But the recovery clock resets to zero when undisclosed info is discovered.

 

You go right back to the beginning and start all over.

 

I think you need to ask your H if there is ANYTHING ELSE he needs to tell you about his affair; that discovering any more lies or omissions of fact send you back to square one.

 

That you want and need to trust him to stay married to him, but it is killing you.

 

Ask him. Ball in his court then.

 

I like this line of thinking. Make it clear that you can handle the truth but any more lies that are discovered will be the END. But make sure you mean it.

 

After all I discovered with my wife's affair, I never thought she would keep lying either. What I knew was devastating enough. Guess what? She was still lying. It wasn't the affair that killed us; it was the fact that she was still a liar while crying and professing to my face that she would never lie again. I can't commit the rest of my life to someone that will keep doing that.

 

Lots of people go through several rounds of TT. Some reconcile; some call it quits. Only you will know when you are truly done and at this point, every minute you spend reconciling is a gift. Just don't give your soul away in the process.

[KathyM]

The problem with finding out a lie long after the reconciliation process has begun is that it often brings the reconciliation back to square one, where the BS now starts to question everything said all over again, and not knowing or trusting anything to be the truth. Not being able to trust your spouse to be truthful with you is devastating, and even if you have started to trust his ability to be faithful in the future, you find you can no longer trust in him to be honest with you, and that he will only tell you things he wants you to know, rather than give you reality. It's pretty hard to trust what someone says when you've found you've been lied to over and over, and you start to feel that the whole reconciliation process was based on a lie and not genuine. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I think, if you do decide to stay, you should work on this issue together with your therapist of the importance of living an authentic life and being honest with yourself and your spouse, even when honesty may have negative repercussions.

[Spark1111]

I like this line of thinking. Make it clear that you can handle the truth but any more lies that are discovered will be the END. But make sure you mean it.

 

After all I discovered with my wife's affair, I never thought she would keep lying either. What I knew was devastating enough. Guess what? She was still lying. It wasn't the affair that killed us; it was the fact that she was still a liar while crying and professing to my face that she would never lie again. I can't commit the rest of my life to someone that will keep doing that.

 

Lots of people go through several rounds of TT. Some reconcile; some call it quits. Only you will know when you are truly done and at this point, every minute you spend reconciling is a gift. Just don't give your soul away in the process.

 

That is the part of the process that WSs have trouble understanding and it is the death knell for many a marriage.

 

I think it is fear-based and rightfully so: the truth may cause you to leave them.

 

But so will the continued lying, more so than brutal honesty regarding the affair.

 

And I think, as they defog, even they are appalled at their lying and secrecy, so even they don't WANT TO remember the worst of it, let alone tell their spouse.

 

But we spouses need to see that courage. We need to know that they have changed for the stronger and the better. We need to know they have the strength to confide their deepest and darkest secrets to us.

 

Otherwise, we will never feel that we can have a hand in fixing it, nor feel safe with them ever again.

[StormySeas]

You all are very kind to take the time to reply. I just want to know that I appreciate your thoughts and the thoughts of anyone else that wants to post regarding my situation.

 

I think you're all very right about me just wanting/needing/having to get the entire truth. You're also incredibly right that my H really just has had no understanding for how much more difficult/damaging/horrible this situation is as a result of not being able to tell the truth.

 

I believe that I do know everything now...but, of course, it's tough to know FOR SURE when we have a history of lying about this that is so extensive. I mean I always thought that it was a full-blown PA, so hearing that it was was didn't surprise me. Hearing that it happened on the way to work in the mornings after kissing me and our son goodbye, was a blow that I can't really describe. I guess I always thought that the PA would be after a night of too many adult beverages. I also have a really hard time fathoming how he could have unprotected fun with this woman. I mean what if she'd had HIV? He didn't ask her to get tested before. What if our son ended up with two HIV positive parents because of this? That really really really really bothers me. But maybe I'm just focusing on that as one of the things that's really bothering me when it's really just the situation taken as a whole.

 

I bought one of the books recommended elsewhere at lunch today for my no-sleep nights ("Not Just Friends")...any recommendations for other books people have found some comfort/frankness/help in during situations such as this?

[BetrayedH]

Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley is also standard reading. He has several good books. However, in some places he suggests reaching a point where you never discuss the affair again. The idea is to stop pulling the scab off. That's where I no longer agree. It may be a way to avoid conflict but in my view, that was already part of the problem. Spouses need to talk more about it, not less. Choking it down is too much for a BS. I vote for fully honest and open dialogue about everything, especially if it is difficult. After all of the lying and deception, an authentic life is what's in order. And the sooner that I can believe my WS because they are open and vulnerable about the deepest truths, the better for both of us. Not talking about it may save the marriage but it's a dead one. Get the book anyway. I read about 15 of them in the first six months or so.

[BetrayedH]

Yeah, I'm sorry Stormy but the sex only twice is such classic bull****. That's just the part of the story I cannot buy. I have just seen this too many times. My wife admitted to about 30 hotel stays over the course of 13 months. I found it was closer to 70. If you have admitted to 30, why not say the truth? She didn't. My wife said the OM had never been to the house. Seven months later I found an internet blog she had written describing her first encounter with the OM in graphic fashion (on my couch with the kids asleep in their rooms).

 

Saying it was "twice" acknowledges the PA which you already knew but then minimizes the impact to you. It was more like twice a week. Or maybe only twice in his car. Believe what you want but it's not because it is the logical thing to believe but in fact because you want to believe it. I am truly sorry to be so blunt but 2-3 years and sex only twice? Simply not believable and it does you a disservice to say otherwise.

Edited September 26, 2012 by BetrayedH

[Ninja'sHusband]

I gotta agree...trickle truth is sooo common. My wife lied to me and our counselor for 3 months about the scope of the affair. Even when I found out the truth she still couldn't come clean about how the thing actually started. I found that out a week later via an email from the OM. I think I know the truth now...but it's too late. She blew every chance she had to show me she could tell me the truth when it's hard.

[StormySeas]

The pain is fresh because true D-Day was just three days ago. This all happened between Feb-May 2010. Then my H went totally NC in August after a long stint in counseling--I know this is true from my later detective work, when I found a ton of stuff from that period, but only one very brief communication later in 2010. I highly doubt he deleted the rest of the communications given what he left was so damning. Anyway, in counseling in the summer of 2010 the full truth clearly didn't come out. My H eventually agreed that it was an inappropriate relationship and an EA, but did not divulge anything about the PA. Then I found emails in February 2012 from May 2010 that gave some details that there was a kiss, etc. He still denied that there was anything beyond that until Monday, when he said that he needed to talk to me and admitted that they'd slept together twice. The only reason that twice has a semblance of potential truth is that the OW entered a serious relationship right after May 2010 and apparently didn't want it to continue (although my husband admits that he would have if she would have). Obviously I have no faith in whether this is true or not at this point. It could be 100, 200, 500, or 2. I don't know.