How Many Other Women...

[Ladydrib]

...were cheated on previous to ever being involved in an affair themselves?

 

I wonder this, because it was so far out of my character. If you had told me a couple years ago, I would end up here, I would have thought you knew nothing of me and would have been totally offended. I often wonder if being cheated on changed me, fundamentally, from a loyalty perspective.

 

Does anyone believe the betrayal they experienced change them forever and potentially played a primary role in ending up in an affair?

 

It's certainly not an excuse. It's me trying to understand, so I can fix where I am broken and not repeat the same mistake.

[2sure]

That is an amazing question, one I think we should all talk about in a productive way.

 

My experience was the opposite. I was a serial OW prior to becoming a BS. So, I am a reformed OW in a big way. Being cheated on was an epiphany for me, in that I just didn't get it before that. Tragically. So, anyway...as such, I've gotten sympathy , understanding , and real support here. And the irony of one following the other is not lost on me...and makes a kind of sense.

 

But ...BS who then become OW...that doesn't make sense to most people. It is the ultimate wrong to many.

 

So, lol..it's a good subject to question , if we can do it without the name calling.

 

I suspect that experiencing infidelity, much like physical abuse...gives one if not a comfort level with it...then a familiarity that makes it...not out of the question.

[Silly_Girl]

I never held a label when I was cheated on, I didn't identify as 'someone who's been cheated on'. Plus, the people, context and circumstances were so vastly different in the two scenarios that I never sat and thought of one vs the other. I genuinely don't believe my experience of being cheated on had any bearing whatsoever on my falling in love with someone who was already married to someone else.

[Ladydrib]

That is an amazing question, one I think we should all talk about in a productive way.

 

My experience was the opposite. I was a serial OW prior to becoming a BS. So, I am a reformed OW in a big way. Being cheated on was an epiphany for me, in that I just didn't get it before that. Tragically. So, anyway...as such, I've gotten sympathy , understanding , and real support here. And the irony of one following the other is not lost on me...and makes a kind of sense.

 

But ...BS who then become OW...that doesn't make sense to most people. It is the ultimate wrong to many.

 

So, lol..it's a good subject to question , if we can do it without the name calling.

 

I suspect that experiencing infidelity, much like physical abuse...gives one if not a comfort level with it...then a familiarity that makes it...not out of the question.

 

Thank you for your reply. Interesting. Hadn't thought about the other direction.

 

For me, it's like being cheated on deadened my feelings, disabling my ability to connect deeply, to feel loyalty, and to respect relationships. I assume it was being cheated on, because I was always passionate about loyalty before that happened. Hard to know for sure how much of a role that played, but I do know that pre being cheated on I was different.

[2sure]

That makes sense...when I was participating in affairs as OW, I was at a place in my life where emotional connections were something I didn't have a lot of respect for or hope in.

 

I get a lot of argument for it here...but I believe many OW begin affairs when they are at particularly low or vulnerable points in their lives...whether they know it now or not.

 

So, it makes sense that a BS could become OW...because certainly they are vulnerable.

[LaCurieuse]

I often wonder about that, LD. I was cheated on in High School by my boyfriend who lived in a neighboring town. I was really hurt by that, but it was so long ago now. However, I do see that ever since then, I have nearly always been the one to leave a relationship, someties cheating right before leaving, maybe as an attempt to get rid of my feelings for the person I am leaving.

 

Being the OW and thinking about the BS has been a real reality check for me and has made me long for loyalty, fidelity and simplicity.

 

I don't think there is a direction connection between tis and me falling into an OW role, but I do think that I was more forgiving of him and his behaviour because I felt that I could not judge...everyone is human type thing.

[hermione08]

@hockeyfan

I agree with you. I had and A which I ended, and looking back on it, I realise now the many lies he told me. I learnt a lot from my mistakes and never again will I believe anything a MM says regarding his relationship.

[AnotherRound]

I was a BS years before I became an OW. Yes, being the BS changed me - it changed the way that I viewed marriage. It gave me a much more realistic idea, imo, of what marriage takes and is and means. It taught me that sometimes, things just don't work out. It made me let go of the "happily ever after" fairy tale I had been raised with, and made me view relationships in a much more practical manner. That they take a lot of work, and a lot of love - but that none of that can make a relationship work LT if the two people in the relationship are just not compatible.

 

I didn't seek out an MM, and didn't go into the relationship with exMM knowing he was a MM. Had I known, no, I wouldn't have gotten involved. Which is exactly why he was dishonest with me - bc he knew that I wouldn't have gotten involved. Yes, that was unfair of him - but it's water under the bridge, bc I stayed in once I knew. I do think that being a BS influenced that to an extent. I do not believe that I had some subconscious desire to hurt a female stranger - I just didn't think that marriage = happiness and forever anymore.

 

I would not be an OW in a situation where the wife is being deceived, that's just my boundary. And now, I won't be an OW ever again. I have experienced it, and decided that it wasn't for me. I have no judgment regarding anyone who chooses that lifestyle, or chooses to help deceive someone - that's their business, not mine. I just know for myself, I won't do it again, and would be able to walk away this time even if I didn't know from the get go (at least, I'm 99.9% sure I could, guess I won't really know unless that situation actually happens in the future).

 

I do not regret that my exH cheated on me. I learned a LOT from that experience - about myself, about life, about relationships, and about marriage. I am thankful for the knowledge that I gained. Too bad I had to learn it that way, but that's life, and I'll take my lessons when they present themselves, no matter how painful or uncomfortable those lessons are. It didn't change me as a person, but it did allow me to see marriage more realistically, and that I'm extremely grateful for, bc if I hadn't learned that, I'd probably have a few under my belt by now bc I had some very unrealistic expectations of marriage back then.

[2sure]

Anotherround....you might consider that both your x and Mm have lied to you in big huge ways...and you're ok with that.

Not a good normal to have you know?

Well things weren't great, and I wouldn't have liked it, so he lied to me. But, he kinda had to so he could do what he wanted...so I understand.

Not OK.

[AnotherRound]

Anotherround....you might consider that both your x and Mm have lied to you in big huge ways...and you're ok with that.

Not a good normal to have you know?

Well things weren't great, and I wouldn't have liked it, so he lied to me. But, he kinda had to so he could do what he wanted...so I understand.

Not OK.

 

I'm not saying it was okay, I'm just not hyper focused on it. If I choose to continue a relationship with someone after they lied to me (as exMm did), then I choose not to hold that over their head forever. Otherwise, if that's what I plan on doing, then I just shouldn't be in the relationship with them. The difference for me is that I can see WHY they lied. Not that I agree with it, not that I think it was "okay", but I understand it, and choose not to hold it against them. That is my choice, and the way that I choose to live my life.

 

I understand that it wouldn't work for others, and that is their choice. But the other difference is, if exMM and were to get into a relationship now, and he lied to me, or cheated on me, I would NOT be heard whining about it - ever. I know it's a possibility, but I think it's ALWAYS a possibility that a SO will lie to you, or even cheat on you. I don't consider it the end of the world, and I can handle it. So, I'm not going to spend my time worrying about it, or holding grudges about it. Especially not if I choose to continue the relationship - that is completely unfair. To continue a relationship with someone and use a past mistake to beat them with for the next 50 years. THAT is abusive.

 

If exMM and I have a relationship now, and he lies to me, it will be shame on me - not shame on him. I would be disappointed, but not devastated. And heck, any of the SGs I am dating could be lying to me, or maybe have lied to me, or will lie to me. That's a mistake that I choose to forgive if it isn't a consistent personality trait and I can see why they lied in that instance. Understanding it does not mean agreeing with it, forgiving them for it and moving on is what I choose.

 

If exMM lied to me consistently, or about everything - that would be different. He doesn't (I know, some would NEVER trust him, that's their right, but not what I choose), and hasn't and we have had a VERY open relationship. Yes that was a big lie, and yes, it was important information that I needed. But, he can't go back and change it, neither can I, so what's the use in being angry about it now? And, despite what some may think, I choose to believe that it was one lie - a big one, yes - but one lie, and I get it. So, I choose to forgive him. Like I said, if he lies to me again in a big way, it will be my own fault, and I'm okay with taking that chance.

[2sure]

AR...you sound like an OW who expects to be lied to and is convincing herself its going to be ok in advance. Because that's what you're used to.

 

No, I'm not telling...I'm asking.

[SidLyon]

I'm a slightly different permutation again, in that I was a WS before I was a BS.

 

Being a WS was not a good experience for me. We were not married, had no kids but we had lived together for about a year.

 

Admittedly he had cheated first. Mine was an exit A and there was no sneaking around because my partner at the time knew what was going on. He behaved like a traumatised BH though, even though he had an OW himself. It would be fair to say we were somewhat dysfunctional, but we were very young. It was nearly 35 years ago! (ie in the 1970s when living together was not quite so acceptable as it is now).

 

When I married, my previous experience as a WS caused me to decide never to cheat again and I haven't. I also have never been an OW.

 

Being a BW has certainly changed me and now I sometimes feel I might be vulnerable to cheating. My fWH knows this. I feel I will never be an OW though. It's a line I have never crossed and because I was so traumatised by my H's infidelity, I am certain I'll never knowingly be an OW, as I could never inflict that on another woman no matter how awful she is or is made out to be. Woe betide any MM that tries to put that one, over on me.

Edited September 23, 2012 by SidLyon

[Spark1111]

I have never been an OW, only a BS.

 

I wonder, if in trying to come to some sort of acceptance of what happened to you, is it necessary to water it down, so it winds up being, years later, not that big of a deal?

 

Because trauma, any sort of trauma, can do that to a person, especially, if in the need to survive it, it is minimized and not allowed to be deeply and painfully examined and FELT.

 

I get that. I learned in IC that I have always tended to intellectualize my traumas, starting in childhood, but haven't allowed myself to feel the full impact of the pain they caused me.

 

That is a necessary coping mechanism for survival, and we all, to some extent do it because we have to move on from the pain.

 

But, it is NOT the emotionally healthiest way to deal with pain. The best way is torpedoes straight ahead, right through the damn middle of the storm.

 

Even if it leaves us in a puddle of tears and non-functioning for a while.

 

Emotions NOT FELT, do NOT go away. They just morph into different pathologies that keep us out of touch with our true pain and keep us intellectualizing and justifying our actions.

 

So, smart, resourceful, justifying Spark went on, very well, and looked at all my acheivements as a see, I survived and very well thank you.

 

I was proud of that. I needed to be.

 

But true strength did not arrive until I finally ALLOWED myself to dwell on and feel the actual pain events had caused me.

 

That's is nearly impossible for strong, independent, overcoming, I can manage it all women to do.

[AnotherRound]

AR...you sound like an OW who expects to be lied to and is convincing herself its going to be ok in advance. Because that's what you're used to.

 

No, I'm not telling...I'm asking.

 

No. One, I'm not an OW anymore, and never will be again. ExMM is in the process of divorce, and I will not have any type of relationship with him until that is finalized.

 

I don't expect to be lied to, but yes, I am desensitized to it. I've lived through it before, it didn't kill me then, and it won't kill me now. I'm just not afraid of it anymore. I won't allow someone to consistently lie to me, if that happens, I will handle it by ending the relationship. But, I won't negate 7 (now 8 I guess) years of honesty bc he told me one lie 8 years ago. I gave him a chance after the lie, an honest chance, and he hasn't lied to me since. So, I'm over it.

 

I think that some people live in so much fear that betrayal or lying is THE biggest thing that can happen to them. The most hurtful thing, the worst thing EVER. I don't. I'm not afraid of it, bc I know that I can handle it. I have been through MUCH worse, a little lie isn't going to kill me. So, I take more chances in my relationships than others would. Personally, I think it's worth it. I don't see how it's any different than a BS giving the WS another chance. If their WS lies to them and has an A, then they agree to reconcile - how is that any different? They are forgiving the lies and moving on.

 

ExMM and have done a lot of growing and bonding over the past 8 years (minus the time we were broken up), and in all that time, he has NEVER lied to me again. Could he have? Maybe - but if he has, I'm not aware. If I was to find out it was all a great big lie, it would hurt, but again, I can handle it. And I would be disappointed that he decided/chose to do that to me - but I stayed in the relationship, so, if I truly forgive, I have to truly forgive - and that means letting it go. Not using it as a weapon against him. Again, otherwise, if I couldn't truly forgive and let it go, then I shouldn't agree to be in a relationship with him.

 

I think it's a matter of fear. People fear the unknown, and people who have a really hard getting past betrayal have a really hard time truly forgiving for it. I don't have a hard time forgiving, and giving someone a chance to make it up to me. In all these years, exMM has more than made it up to me, that first lie, by being completely and totally honest with me regarding everything in his life. We have talked about everything - there are no holds barred. I guess he could be lying, and manipulating, but if he is willing to put that much work and energy, for all that time, into tricking me - well, I'd even have to give him credit for that, lol. Because I'm not an easy person to be with, I'm demanding and expect a lot - and he handles it well.

 

He could go and find someone MUCH easier to be with than me, I have no doubt about that. So, if it's all a trick, then shame on me, but I'll live. And for me, the love that I have for him would have been worth it - to give him a chance after that first lie, and to have had all the times together that we have had. I wouldn't give them up for anything, not even the "bad" times. And I would have to give him some props if it was all just a trick, bc if it is, he's got some perseverance, damn! lol To me, the gamble was worth the risk - and in the end, it was worth it. So, I made the right choice back then regarding forgiving him that lie.

 

Now, time will tell if I make the right choice this time. I won't know until something gives and he's proven to be lying to me, or cheating on me, but in the meantime, I'm not going to forsake what I feel for him out of fear of what MIGHT happen. Again, if I take the gamble, then the risk was obviously worth it to me - and that is my choice and nobody elses.

[AnotherRound]

I have never been an OW, only a BS.

 

I wonder, if in trying to come to some sort of acceptance of what happened to you, is it necessary to water it down, so it winds up being, years later, not that big of a deal?

 

Because trauma, any sort of trauma, can do that to a person, especially, if in the need to survive it, it is minimized and not allowed to be deeply and painfully examined and FELT.

 

I get that. I learned in IC that I have always tended to intellectualize my traumas, starting in childhood, but haven't allowed myself to feel the full impact of the pain they caused me.

 

That is a necessary coping mechanism for survival, and we all, to some extent do it because we have to move on from the pain.

 

But, it is NOT the emotionally healthiest way to deal with pain. The best way is torpedoes straight ahead, right through the damn middle of the storm.

 

Even if it leaves us in a puddle of tears and non-functioning for a while.

 

Emotions NOT FELT, do NOT go away. They just morph into different pathologies that keep us out of touch with our true pain and keep us intellectualizing and justifying our actions.

 

So, smart, resourceful, justifying Spark went on, very well, and looked at all my acheivements as a see, I survived and very well thank you.

 

I was proud of that. I needed to be.

 

But true strength did not arrive until I finally ALLOWED myself to dwell on and feel the actual pain events had caused me.

 

That's is nearly impossible for strong, independent, overcoming, I can manage it all women to do.

 

This is dead on. Either way is unhealthy - either intellectualizing it to avoid the pain, or wallowing it without intellectualizing it to some extent. There IS a healthy middle. I have struggled reaching that middle too, and often tend to intellectualize things to avoid the pain. I have worked hard to improve it, and I do MUCH better with it now, as I learned that not facing it doesn't make it go away - it just festers. And eventually, I WILL have to feel it. Oh, how I hate that, but now, I do it like a band aid - I just rip it off fast, feel it, cry it out, do whatever it takes to feel it - try to not overanalyze it and move on. Not easy to do, but a priceless skill once learned!

 

I'm glad that you learned this in IC - it is invaluable!!!!

[eleanorrigby]

...were cheated on previous to ever being involved in an affair themselves?

 

I wonder this, because it was so far out of my character. If you had told me a couple years ago, I would end up here, I would have thought you knew nothing of me and would have been totally offended. I often wonder if being cheated on changed me, fundamentally, from a loyalty perspective.

 

Does anyone believe the betrayal they experienced change them forever and potentially played a primary role in ending up in an affair?

 

It's certainly not an excuse. It's me trying to understand, so I can fix where I am broken and not repeat the same mistake.

 

I'm not an OW and I don't think the betrayal changed me, but I used it to justify a few things that I did and am not proud about. So, I think that, I changed me, after the betrayal for a while.

(if you were only looking for OW input, let me know, I'll delete)

[trinity1]

My family of origin is a dysfunctional family. Even though I've been active in self-help groups and family therapy for the major part of my adult life, I still struggle with dysfunctional patterns and therefore am likely to be attracted to men who are also from dysfunctional families of origin.

 

So my two xSOs had addictive issues, among them sexual addiction as serial cheaters. My present SO, my MM, is "the good guy", the guy who "does the right thing", which is a survival technique he chose as a young child. He was the good guy while many of his siblings went on to addictive behaviors.

 

So it isn't because I was the BS I became the OW. It goes far deeper than that.

[Radagast]

...were cheated on previous to ever being involved in an affair themselves?

 

I wonder this, because it was so far out of my character. If you had told me a couple years ago, I would end up here, I would have thought you knew nothing of me and would have been totally offended. I often wonder if being cheated on changed me, fundamentally, from a loyalty perspective.

 

Does anyone believe the betrayal they experienced change them forever and potentially played a primary role in ending up in an affair?

 

It's certainly not an excuse. It's me trying to understand, so I can fix where I am broken and not repeat the same mistake.

 

This is an interesting concept. I have not been cheated on, to the best of my knowledge, but I have been "the other man" and I have been an unfaithful spouse, many decades later.

 

Infidelity was not something I'd ever really been exposed to or considered before I landed up talking to a rather intoxicated woman who poured out all her marital woes to me before asking me to take her home with me. I did not at the time consider it to be an affair, I was seeing other girls as well in a very casual way as one does at that age, and so I was a little surprised when she later turned up with all her possessions and asked me to take her in after her husband threw her out. At which point I became monogamous and remained that way until decades later when I succumbed to an affair.

 

It has been suggested to me that it may have been the fact that our marriage started out as an affair that led me later to be unfaithful toward her, since by having an affair she had indicated her own views on infidelity. I'm not altogether sure I would agree with that - my ex-wife felt perfectly justified in cheating on her ex-husband (with me) but she felt completely outraged that I had the gall to do the same to her. And yet some small part of me must acknowledge that during my affair (with my wife, not with my ex-wife) I was aware of wondering if what I was thinking and feeling was similar to what my ex-wife had thought and felt during her affair. Of course it is not something I would ever be able to discuss with her. But perhaps some small part of me hoped that she would be able to understand (albeit not empathise) since she had done exactly the same, many years ago. More generally, I suppose I did not hold marriage sacred above all else, partly because of my ex-wife's own views (stated and acted) rubbished it and partly because as a child of divorce I had never bought into the whole "happy ever after" scenario.

 

Until now. Having remarried and found the woman I believe to be my soulmate I know I could never betray her, it would be betraying myself and all that I hold dear.

[Got it]

DMM was a BS first and then the WP.

 

Based on what he has said, her affair was found out years later, he was blamed for not being home more (he was working all the time due to 9/11 and the repercussions tied to it) and that it was over and done with it, move on.

 

So he mourned it, separated himself more emotionally and felt they coparented well and just focused on kids and work.

 

With our affair, I think is lack of empathy towards her was due to her affair and her lack of remorse after it. Due to that he greatly underestimated her reaction when she found out about the affair and has been quite shocked by her continued bitterness.

 

The one piece of her affair that still hits him, that he is still trying to reconcile, was the level of anger towards him that continued through.

 

He felt much more guilt towards my ex and his kids than he did towards her. Conversely, though, he has continued to "support" her with the kids in regards to never telling them about her affair even when she dragged the children into his affair and the divorce proceedings. He will talk to them when the are adults about it but since it will not add value to their lives to know it, he has taken the lumps and kept his mouth shut.

 

Yes being a BS hit him hard and being the WS never sat easily for him. He did struggle on the kid and finances piece and didn't want to be out of his kids lives on a daily basis. He felt extreme guilt over the affair, extreme guilt over my ex whom he felt was/is a very nice guy, and does not feel he would be a WS again.

[Leelou]

That makes sense...when I was participating in affairs as OW, I was at a place in my life where emotional connections were something I didn't have a lot of respect for or hope in.

 

I get a lot of argument for it here...but I believe many OW begin affairs when they are at particularly low or vulnerable points in their lives...whether they know it now or not.

 

So, it makes sense that a BS could become OW...because certainly they are vulnerable.

I think you're onto something here!