The act of infidelity

[drifter777]

I don't understand how anything that is said or done can counter the act of infidelity and the constant betrayal by the WS to the BS. I have gained a lot of respect for BS who have reconciled but I don't know as I will ever understand the reasoning of history and kids. Anything actually. To me the act of infidelity wipes out every good act that's been done.

 

The one thing I wonder is this. I never once blamed his OW. She had nothing to do with him cheating on me. He could have had a ONS and that would still have brought about the same result. He cheated on me. The OW meant nothing. The fact my H betrayed me and cheated on me meant everything. That was the only fact that meant anything. He could have had a string of ONS, or just 1. He could have hired a prostitute or gone for lapdances. In all of those cases he would have cheated and there would have been no OW to collect any of the blame.

 

To me it is the actual act of infidelity that is unforgivable. And to me it is completely unforgiveable. When people say you never know your reaction till you're faced with it -- that wasn't me. If you have been faced infidelity and chosen to stay do you think you compromised your principles? Was it a matter of circumstance and/or time softening your thoughts?

 

Is my black or white stance on infidelity the crux of my not blaming the OW in my case and for not shouldering the blame in my A?

 

I don'tknow if I actually have a real question here. It's more like a point to discuss and I do hope I've voiced it well enough.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying here, especially that the act of infidelity is unforgivable. The reason I stayed with my WW boiled down to fear. I was afraid to be on my own. I was afraid to start over again. I was afraid that without my daily influence my wife would turn my son into a pussy. But most overwhelming was my fear of living without a stable, "normal" family life. Now I stay because she has proven, over many years, that she is not the same person and she realizes what a terrible thing it was to cheat. It's a form of forgiveness for her without forgiving the act itself.

 

I did compromise my principles and have still not forgiven myself for that horrible mistake. I wish I could go back and correct my decision to accept the betrayal and stay. Just having a black and white stance on infidelity doesn't necessarily mean you will act in some predetermined way. When you actually have to face it, you just might do what you swore you would never do for lots of different reasons.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I agree with most of what you are saying here, especially that the act of infidelity is unforgivable. The reason I stayed with my WW boiled down to fear. I was afraid to be on my own. I was afraid to start over again. I was afraid that without my daily influence my wife would turn my son into a pussy. But most overwhelming was my fear of living without a stable, "normal" family life. Now I stay because she has proven, over many years, that she is not the same person and she realizes what a terrible thing it was to cheat. It's a form of forgiveness for her without forgiving the act itself.

 

I did compromise my principles and have still not forgiven myself for that horrible mistake. I wish I could go back and correct my decision to accept the betrayal and stay. Just having a black and white stance on infidelity doesn't necessarily mean you will act in some predetermined way. When you actually have to face it, you just might do what you swore you would never do for lots of different reasons.

 

I think the bolded part is the most positive thing I've heard you say about your fWW. Is this a sign of progress for you? I remember the thread you started a couple weeks ago, you seemed to be reaching some new peak of angst over everything.

[Silly_Girl]

There was a little going back and forth on the issue of whether or not everyone has it in them to cheat.

 

I am not of the opinion that everyone would. I think probably more of us would than would like to admit but not that everyone would.

 

Being the devils advocate here. Almost every person here and that I know IRL say that before they were faced with infidelity they would not tolerate it and would end the R if their partner had cheated. If people do not react as they were sure they would when faced with a cheating spouse, would they also be wrong about what their choice might be if faced with the 'perfect storm' and cheating themselves?

 

I like this.

 

I saw the comments from LFH (I think) about disliking the 'dark' side of the MM who lies. I found that part the hardest. I could accept how he treated me, hard as it was when he bailed (as one example) but I couldn't quite understand how he could lie in that way, to someone he had shared (sort of...) his life for 10 or 12 years. I didn't see it as part of him at first, and then I did and I wrestled with it, here on LS and privately.

 

My high levels of empathy were what allowed me to accept that someone I loved deeply had traits I actually despised and had despised in a previous partner. I felt I knew how upsetting it must have been to have been 'duped' in to a sexless marriage, I felt I knew how devastating it would have been to find that your sexless partner was sexual with another person. I imagined how lonely it must have been, firstly to have a disability that isolates you from the world, and secondly to be so isolated from one's partner. I felt sad for someone who had zero affection and was referred to as a 'child'. It hurt me to hear how someone wanted so desperately to be a father yet their spouse left the room rather than discuss adoption or fertility treatment.

 

Don't jump to conclusions, these weren't sob stories I was lapping up and/or encouraging. The facts of his relationship came out slowly and accidentally at times. He told me initally he was estranged insofar as they had split up, while she was with someone else, and when it didn't work out for her she came back and they continued to co-habit. I knew nothing about the details. Some things I only found out after he had left his wife and I had spent many hours talking to his family.

 

So I had been with someone who portrayed, in my opinion, the worst behaviour of all (within a relationship). I had been hit and injured and manipulated and humiliated but the worst of all for me was the betrayal.

 

I was talking to my boyfriend about this. We talk A LOT. We walk for ten or fifteen miles, by the sea, through the woods, and we chatter, chatter, chatter. We enjoy talking, we like hypotheticals and we share thoughts and fears and hide nothing.

 

I talked to him about my devastation when my relationship with ex-MM ended. It was a life-changing event for me. It led (with other things) to me changing my job (which was threatening to hospitalise me), changing my lifestyle, my outlook, everything. I can't pretend it was 'just a break-up'. I knew that at the time but it's even more obvious now.

 

I explained to my boyfriend how ex-MM and I got together, why we got together. How the relationship progressed. He said he was surprised I entered a relationship with a married man. He stressed it was surprise and not disappointment or disgust, but knowing me as he does, understanding my moral stance on so many things, and how much I love life and hate lying he was surprised that I could reconcile myself to that situation. He thought I would find it too upsetting to share someone I loved and too frustrating to accept lying was for the greater good (for the record, my relationship with ex-MM was for the best all round, I am convinced of that and nothing will sway me).

 

I explained to him how I empathised, how I knew how hard it was to be trapped in a difficult relationship, how I was in no position to judge my ex-MM for his actions when I had not made the best decisions previously.

 

His response: "Yeah... but *you* didn't cheat". He pointed out that I was cheated on, lied to, beaten up, etc etc etc and given opportunities to cheat, and yet I didn't. I'm not made that way.

 

I thought about this a lot. I wanted to cheat at times. I wanted someone to hold me, to make me feel safe, make me feel sexy. I wanted to feel that closeness. I worked out (to a degree) why I didn't cheat. It was - I am ashamed to say - nothing so honourable as wanting to be faithful and taking my commitment seriously. It was as much that he was being a total ar$e and I was not prepared to have the same accusations levelled at me. He accused me many times, however. I was working 65 hours to keep my job in a redundancy situation, but went home to tantrums that I *must* have been screwing someone else. But I was self-righteous and wanted to be able to rise above the nastiness and know I was not like him. That mattered to me so much. I was firmly in the Victim role and determined, if I had to choose a role, to stay there. Not to say I wanted to be a victim, but I was not prepared to enter into any tit-for-tat. The thought of revenge games scared me, goodness knows where they'd end.

 

So can my boyfriend trust me? Is the fact I've proved I won't cheat (in that scenario at least) enough? For me, my main reason for not cheating is not that I would hate it if it happened to me (*did* hate it when it happened to me), but that I value him and trust him more than I ever thought possible. I know that if I messed up I would risk losing him, and I can't do that. No way. So again, hardly an honourable reason. A very selfish reason. I am not thinking about his hurt, I'm thinking of myself and what he means to me and how it would be the biggest mistake of my life to mess this up.

 

I don't really have a conclusion, I have been waffling and I apologise for that, it's been an emotional week or two... I am not sure how I feel about the 'can't cheat, won't cheat' brigade. I do often, in my life, come back to the 'walk in their shoes and then see what you would have done if it were you', and none of us can really and truly answer that. We can get close to it but that's as far as it goes, in my opinion.

[Ninja'sHusband]

One of the things that Dr. Harley says is that *everyone* has the potential to cheat...and I actually buy into it, especially from a male POV (remember I'm the BS btw ). I feel like if I was alone in a room with a super attractive lady who was going after me...I'd be very hard put to it to resist. That's why you avoid these situations and enforce boundaries to keep you from being thrown in tempation's way in the first place. Know what converstations lead to the wrong kind of emotional attachment. Know when you should go home. Know when you shouldn't drink. Know what honors your spouse and yourself. If you don't take these safe guards, you put yourself at risk. Harley makes the claim that those who don't see the potential to cheat in themselves are the most vulnerable people to cheating....because they don't think they need proper boundaries.

[seren]

Interesting and very civilised thread, I like that we can have proper discussions with no snarky comments.

Way back in the beginning of our relationship I discussed with H that I had trust issues, that I valued honesty and that if he felt attracted to someone else, thought he would be happier with someone else, then we should discuss it, he agreed, it formed the basis of our relationship. How many of us BS said that and believed it!

I knew, that I had the capacity to forgive H most things, I was a, it will never happen to us person, we were (are) so close and in tune it is like he is an extension of me. Yet I was blindsided, much

 

Fast forward 23 years and H tells me he has had an 8 month A. I ask if he is in love, does he want to be with her and is it over. No, no and yes. So, we are at the s*** or bust stage, is what we have enough to brave the dammed storm of a D day, is our relationship based on strong enough foundations that we can rebuild our marriage and begin again and of course the 6 million dollar question, do I love him enough to forgive and does he love me enough to do the hard work? Reconcilitaion is not for the faint hearted, for it to work, there has to be a whole lot of introspection and lots of love.

 

I didn't even think of leaving, neither had H. I balanced what the A was, what it was about, the nature of it and TBH I balanced that against what we had, the potential for what we could continue to have and the consequences if we split up. I knew that if we split, I would always love him with all that I have, H felt the same. My story has been told enough, but I understood why, I also looked at the hours the A took up over the 8 months and realised I spent more time with H in a week than he and the OW had spent together, would I want to ditch 23 years of a great marriage for less than a week of what it was?

 

I saw the role of the OW as an enabler, but she had no place in my marriage, and certainly no bearing on my decision to stay or leave. Reconciling is a bit like the early days, there is no place for anyone else. I have never understood how some AP's cannot understand how a BS and WS can rebuild their relationship and why a BS can forgive. I have never understood how an AP can knowingly share the WS, it seems there are some things we will never understand about each other's role.

 

I get how people fall in and out of love, I don't get the hanging on for years waiting, much the same I suppose how some cannot understand loving someone enough to forgive infidelity or for the WS to want to put in all the hard work needed to reconcile.

I know there would be no second chances, I too couldn't go through the hurt again. I never say never, but, I do say this is my line in the sand, it isn't a threat, more a statement of fact, however I love my H enough to say if you love another, go be with her, same as I did on D Day.

[eleanorrigby]

One of the things that Dr. Harley says is that *everyone* has the potential to cheat...and I actually buy into it' date=' especially from a male POV (remember I'm the BS btw ). I feel like if I was alone in a room with a super attractive lady who was going after me...I'd be very hard put to it to resist. That's why you avoid these situations and enforce boundaries to keep you from being thrown in tempation's way in the first place. Know what converstations lead to the wrong kind of emotional attachment. Know when you should go home. Know when you shouldn't drink. Know what honors your spouse and yourself. If you don't take these safe guards, you put yourself at risk. Harley makes the claim that those who don't see the potential to cheat in themselves are the most vulnerable people to cheating....because they don't think they need proper boundaries.[/quote']

 

I agree with this as well. My husband saw a pretty woman waiting for the bus one day and decided to give her a ride. If he had known that this was crossing a boundary I might never have had to go through being a BS.

 

In the car they chatted and when he got her to her destination, she said to him "you seem like a nice person, let's trade phone numbers"

He said "I'm married" She laughed and said "that's OK, I have a girlfriend"

If they had both stopped for a second and maintained their boundaries, I might never have had to go through being a BS.

 

They weren't in love at that point. They had only met 20 minutes ago. There was more then enough time to pull back and realize that lines were being crossed on both sides, but they went ahead and exchanged phone numbers.

 

Sometimes it pisses me off that I had to go through this because of something so random. If he hadn't been driving down the street that day. Or she got on an earlier bus.

[Silly_Girl]

Sometimes it pisses me off that I had to go through this because of something so random. If he hadn't been driving down the street that day. Or she got on an earlier bus.

 

ER, I *could* read this as your blaming the OW, it sounds as though you blame that unfortunate meeting as opposed to accepting it as a behaviour from your H.

 

If there'd been a diversion that day do you believe that your entire relationship would have been infidelity-free?

[eleanorrigby]

ER, I *could* read this as your blaming the OW, it sounds as though you blame that unfortunate meeting as opposed to accepting it as a behaviour from your H.

 

If there'd been a diversion that day do you believe that your entire relationship would have been infidelity-free?

 

I blame her for her part in things.

 

As for my husband, I know he has a problem with boundaries, and I blame him for not holding himself to the same standard that he would have wanted me to hold for him.

 

My relationship may have been infidelity free, it may not have been.

 

We had been having problems. Maybe he would have decided on divorcing me back then. Or me him.

 

Had he come home one day and said he wanted a divorce I still would have fought for our marriage. I love him.

 

But I sure didnt need to go through this.

 

And neither did he for that matter.

 

He fell in deep love with that woman from the bus stop. In 6 months they had grown very close by the time I found out what was going on and broke up the party.

 

He waffled for a while and when I came out of my daze and started to pull back he finally decided to stay with me, because he loves me too.

 

He had to go through all the heartbreak of letting go of someone he had grown to love. Right in the middle of the most intense part of his love for her and hers for him.

 

One night I held him as he sobbed that he loved her and she loved him.

He put himself through just about as much heartbreak as he did me and her.

No one needed this. And I'm forever resentful of how she was able to just move on with her life but he and I were plunged into a 10 year turmoil.

 

So maybe I still would have been hit with the infidelity stick, maybe not. But I always wish that he had been looking the other way that day.

 

ETA: would have been nice as well, had she actually been a lesbian instead of bi-curious! grrr

Edited September 27, 2012 by eleanorrigby

[AnotherRound]

I blame her for her part in things.

 

As for my husband, I know he has a problem with boundaries, and I blame him for not holding himself to the same standard that he would have wanted me to hold for him.

 

My relationship may have been infidelity free, it may not have been.

 

We had been having problems. Maybe he would have decided on divorcing me back then. Or me him.

 

Had he come home one day and said he wanted a divorce I still would have fought for our marriage. I love him.

 

But I sure didnt need to go through this.

 

And neither did he for that matter.

 

He fell in deep love with that woman from the bus stop. In 6 months they had grown very close by the time I found out what was going on and broke up the party.

 

He waffled for a while and when I came out of my daze and started to pull back he finally decided to stay with me, because he loves me too.

 

He had to go through all the heartbreak of letting go of someone he had grown to love. Right in the middle of the most intense part of his love for her and hers for him.

 

One night I held him as he sobbed that he loved her and she loved him.

He put himself through just about as much heartbreak as he did me and her.

No one needed this. And I'm forever resentful of how she was able to just move on with her life but he and I were plunged into a 10 year turmoil.

 

So maybe I still would have been hit with the infidelity stick, maybe not. But I always wish that he had been looking the other way that day.

 

ETA: would have been nice as well, had she actually been a lesbian instead of bi-curious! grrr

 

I am in such awe of your honesty, openness, and peace with this whole situation. And, the fact that you see it so realistically, and so matter of factly. I admire it, and respect you more every time I read one of your posts... mind blown almost every time with how "settled" you are in your own skin.

[Summer Breeze]

I am in such awe of your honesty, openness, and peace with this whole situation. And, the fact that you see it so realistically, and so matter of factly. I admire it, and respect you more every time I read one of your posts... mind blown almost every time with how "settled" you are in your own skin.

 

 

I have to agree. EleanorRigby and Seren amaze me on a daily basis. There are others from all camps that do as well but you two are in a class of your own.

[Summer Breeze]

I agree with most of what you are saying here, especially that the act of infidelity is unforgivable. The reason I stayed with my WW boiled down to fear. I was afraid to be on my own. I was afraid to start over again. I was afraid that without my daily influence my wife would turn my son into a pussy. But most overwhelming was my fear of living without a stable, "normal" family life. Now I stay because she has proven, over many years, that she is not the same person and she realizes what a terrible thing it was to cheat. It's a form of forgiveness for her without forgiving the act itself.

 

I did compromise my principles and have still not forgiven myself for that horrible mistake. I wish I could go back and correct my decision to accept the betrayal and stay. Just having a black and white stance on infidelity doesn't necessarily mean you will act in some predetermined way. When you actually have to face it, you just might do what you swore you would never do for lots of different reasons.

 

I feel ya Drifter. After I left there were nights I laid awake and cried all night from fear. What had I left, what was I going to do, how would I feed my daughter, where would I go at Thanksgiving and Christmas. The fear is very real and even when you get up the nerve to go it can still be crippling. I don't regret it at all but I can understand how the fear could do that to you.

 

I also agree. I forgave my xH because I made my choices and got on with my life. I eventually gave it up for my sanity. I forgave him but still held him fully responsible.

 

And your last sentence is kind of what I'm getting at in the turn on this thread.

 

Thanks for your input drifter.

[Summer Breeze]

I agree with Seren. It's been an interesting thread and it seems nice to have such great input from everyone.

 

Thank you all.

[Steadfast]

I don't understand how anything that is said or done can counter the act of infidelity and the constant betrayal by the WS to the BS. I have gained a lot of respect for BS who have reconciled but I don't know as I will ever understand the reasoning of history and kids. Anything actually. To me the act of infidelity wipes out every good act that's been done.

 

This is huge, and an under discussed emotion IMO.

 

When my ex sensed this in me, she supported it with more cold-hearted behavior. She punished. Twisted the knife. But when the kids (then early teens) began adopting that mindset, it seemed to me she realized the destruction her actions caused and back-peddled; reviving old pet names, playing old home movies and embracing our history/memories as a family. That seemed to cause only more confusion. At least, that's what the kids expressed. They couldn't understand how she could cut me out of the history that to them, I was so much a part of. Misguided? Who knows.

 

When she began cheating her behavior changed suddenly, even though the 'plan' had been in place for awhile. Hers was more of an announcement than a confession; a proclamation. We Are Over. So many emotions played a part in my desire to reconcile...not the least of which was fear. Anyone who has loved a spouse understands the feelings of grief, mourning and abandonment, but the fear of what I knew would happen -in the financial realm- caused tremendous stress. Not even the worst, most unethical business client was in a position to do such harm. It did happen. All of it.

 

Looking back, her attitude and actions told me she probably wasn't capable of undertaking the huge task of reconciliation. I realize now that when the other emotions passed, I certainly would have struggled with it. Maybe she knew me better than I knew myself. Whatever could have been...wasn't.

 

Honestly? It all turned out about as good as it could have. It didn't kill me. And while I did, do and continue to feel that I survived to prosper, I'll never look back at our broken marriage and shattered family as opportunity. Lots of things happen that shouldn't. This was just one more.

[BetrayedH]

I'm not quite sure where to put this thread. I'm opting for here because it's come to mind because of comments made by OW and think it might be more accurately placed here.

 

When my xH and I were planning our wedding and marriage we had discussions about infidelity. We both talked about how neither of us had ever cheated and that a cheating partner would end the M, period. A few times it came up as a byproduct of other topics but I always said it was a dealbreaker. He always agreed.

 

Fast forward to the moment I confronted him about his A. I had no proof, only a gut feeling and it was more than confirmed by the look on his face. He begged me to forgive him and stay. I couldn't be so cruel as to take his daughter away. I have to admit I gave staying some very minor thoughts. I left soon after and started the D immediately.

 

I don't understand how anything that is said or done can counter the act of infidelity and the constant betrayal by the WS to the BS. I have gained a lot of respect for BS who have reconciled but I don't know as I will ever understand the reasoning of history and kids. Anything actually. To me the act of infidelity wipes out every good act that's been done.

 

The one thing I wonder is this. I never once blamed his OW. She had nothing to do with him cheating on me. He could have had a ONS and that would still have brought about the same result. He cheated on me. The OW meant nothing. The fact my H betrayed me and cheated on me meant everything. That was the only fact that meant anything. He could have had a string of ONS, or just 1. He could have hired a prostitute or gone for lapdances. In all of those cases he would have cheated and there would have been no OW to collect any of the blame.

 

To me it is the actual act of infidelity that is unforgivable. And to me it is completely unforgiveable. When people say you never know your reaction till you're faced with it -- that wasn't me. If you have been faced infidelity and chosen to stay do you think you compromised your principles? Was it a matter of circumstance and/or time softening your thoughts?

 

Is my black or white stance on infidelity the crux of my not blaming the OW in my case and for not shouldering the blame in my A?

 

I don'tknow if I actually have a real question here. It's more like a point to discuss and I do hope I've voiced it well enough.

 

Forgive me as I haven't read the whole thread.

 

I made a real effort to reconcile following my wife's LTA and I think your question is "why?" after your personal reaction was so different.

 

For me, I think I had an extraordinary commitment to marriage. In a sense, this was one of those "bad times" that they mentioned in my vows. I would also say that I felt forgiveness wasn't impossible. I think in a sense I was able to identify with a need for external validation. I felt that given the 'right' circumstances, I might have been vulnerable to the attention of a woman (if pursued). It probably explains why I felt such a need to have my own affair to 'balance' things after hers. I had a rough childhood and have craved validation ever since. Perhaps you are a stronger person and so you have less empathy for the brokenness in someone else.

 

I very much felt that my wife was "broken" and that it was my job to fix her/us before her brokenness destroyed the nuclear family. I think she still is. A side of me still wishes that I had been strong enough for both of us. It's been hard to accept that I wasn't.

[Summer Breeze]

This is huge, and an under discussed emotion IMO.

 

When my ex sensed this in me, she supported it with more cold-hearted behavior. She punished. Twisted the knife. But when the kids (then early teens) began adopting that mindset, it seemed to me she realized the destruction her actions caused and back-peddled; reviving old pet names, playing old home movies and embracing our history/memories as a family. That seemed to cause only more confusion. At least, that's what the kids expressed. They couldn't understand how she could cut me out of the history that to them, I was so much a part of. Misguided? Who knows.

 

When she began cheating her behavior changed suddenly, even though the 'plan' had been in place for awhile. Hers was more of an announcement than a confession; a proclamation. We Are Over. So many emotions played a part in my desire to reconcile...not the least of which was fear. Anyone who has loved a spouse understands the feelings of grief, mourning and abandonment, but the fear of what I knew would happen -in the financial realm- caused tremendous stress. Not even the worst, most unethical business client was in a position to do such harm. It did happen. All of it.

 

Looking back, her attitude and actions told me she probably wasn't capable of undertaking the huge task of reconciliation. I realize now that when the other emotions passed, I certainly would have struggled with it. Maybe she knew me better than I knew myself. Whatever could have been...wasn't.

 

Honestly? It all turned out about as good as it could have. It didn't kill me. And while I did, do and continue to feel that I survived to prosper, I'll never look back at our broken marriage and shattered family as opportunity. Lots of things happen that shouldn't. This was just one more.

 

Thanks for this post. The bolded really hit home with me. The way my life has gone since the divorce has been amazing. I had some wonderful experiences that would never have come along if I were still M to my xH and I'd trade them all to have had the M I thought I had. One that protected me and that would be there for all my days.

 

Thank you Steadfast.

[Summer Breeze]

Forgive me as I haven't read the whole thread.

 

I made a real effort to reconcile following my wife's LTA and I think your question is "why?" after your personal reaction was so different.

 

For me, I think I had an extraordinary commitment to marriage. In a sense, this was one of those "bad times" that they mentioned in my vows. I would also say that I felt forgiveness wasn't impossible. I think in a sense I was able to identify with a need for external validation. I felt that given the 'right' circumstances, I might have been vulnerable to the attention of a woman (if pursued). It probably explains why I felt such a need to have my own affair to 'balance' things after hers. I had a rough childhood and have craved validation ever since. Perhaps you are a stronger person and so you have less empathy for the brokenness in someone else.

 

I very much felt that my wife was "broken" and that it was my job to fix her/us before her brokenness destroyed the nuclear family. I think she still is. A side of me still wishes that I had been strong enough for both of us. It's been hard to accept that I wasn't.

 

Two things you said really rang true.

 

'Perhaps you are a stronger person and so you have less empathy for the brokenness in someone else.'

Wow. You've touched on something I have never considered before. I've always been very strong but I've never thought of strength restricting empathy. Basically the strength I'm so proud of and work so hard for being a weakness.

 

'A side of me still wishes that I had been strong enough for both of us.'

Someone in a very long M told me once that the reason they were still M was they never fell out of love at the same time. I loved that--it was all about the balance. One day he'd love her enough to pull her along and the next day she'd be pulling him. There was always balance. When you see the balance being horribly tipped one way or the other things have a way of falling apart. You can be strong for someone but you can't do it forever.

 

Thank you BetrayedH.

[BetrayedH]

Two things you said really rang true.

 

'Perhaps you are a stronger person and so you have less empathy for the brokenness in someone else.'

Wow. You've touched on something I have never considered before. I've always been very strong but I've never thought of strength restricting empathy. Basically the strength I'm so proud of and work so hard for being a weakness.

 

'A side of me still wishes that I had been strong enough for both of us.'

Someone in a very long M told me once that the reason they were still M was they never fell out of love at the same time. I loved that--it was all about the balance. One day he'd love her enough to pull her along and the next day she'd be pulling him. There was always balance. When you see the balance being horribly tipped one way or the other things have a way of falling apart. You can be strong for someone but you can't do it forever.

 

Thank you BetrayedH.

 

Appreciate the dialogue. Not sure that I would call your lack of empathy for your WS infidelity makes it a weakness, though. From what I see, even the BSs that successfully reconcile are 'stronger' in that most of them kicked the WS out without much hesitation. This seemed to snap the WS out of their 'fog' and the WS came crawling back and was able to do enough for the BS to reestablish trust over the long haul. I wasn't strong enough to kick mine out or to divorce. In my desperation, I took a softer approach which does more damage to your sense of self-worth. Ugh. Just saying I'm not sure how much of a weakness it is to not have empathy for someone that has quite deliberately betrayed you. Your strength seems to have served you well and if you are otherwise normal in your empathy for others, perhaps you just have a healthier ability to determine when to have empathy and when to cut your losses.

[Sheridan1993]

I'm not trying to be awkward. This is a real question that I'm asking. If it was a dealbreaker for you then and it didn't break the deal, how do you know it won't break it if there is a next time?

 

I know that WS who reconcile (correctly) pay a steep price but I personally can't get my head around letting them get to the point there is any price they can pay. The only exception I could make would be if he came clean on his own and admitted it rather than got caught. I'm not even 100% certain on that to be honest.

 

If a H has just one OW and it lasts a year or he has a couple of ONS with different women over the year, is the act looked at any differently? Is one any more forgiveable than the other? Not specifically at you Rain, just part of the thought process your post started.

 

Thanks for jumping in.

 

 

I think I would rather have my H have multiple ONS than a relationship with woman for a long period of time. At least no feelings would be involve although the risk of getting a sts would be a lot larger.

[drifter777]

Appreciate the dialogue. Not sure that I would call your lack of empathy for your WS infidelity makes it a weakness, though. From what I see, even the BSs that successfully reconcile are 'stronger' in that most of them kicked the WS out without much hesitation. This seemed to snap the WS out of their 'fog' and the WS came crawling back and was able to do enough for the BS to reestablish trust over the long haul. I wasn't strong enough to kick mine out or to divorce. In my desperation, I took a softer approach which does more damage to your sense of self-worth. Ugh. Just saying I'm not sure how much of a weakness it is to not have empathy for someone that has quite deliberately betrayed you. Your strength seems to have served you well and if you are otherwise normal in your empathy for others, perhaps you just have a healthier ability to determine when to have empathy and when to cut your losses.

 

God, this is so true. In direct relation to the bolded, the soft approach pretty much cannot work for the BS in the long run. In my opinion, a BS who takes a soft approach does so out of fear. Whether others understand the fear or not, it is real and motivates a BS to compromise their values and do crazy things in an attempt to "fix" the situation. I think many BS's feel, as I did, that they can carry this heavy burden until time heals this wound. We all know that this leads to "cheap forgiveness" that a BS offer's their WS in a desperate attempt to make the pain stop and get things back to "normal". Of course, time doesn't heal and the whole thing blows up down the road.

 

BH: Over time you've learned why many of us urged you to take a harder stance with your WW. We've been there and pretty much knew where it would lead. Like advice we give our kids, most BS's have to learn it for themselves although I'd like to think that some of the advice they get here is taken more seriously as it starts to ring true in their life.

 

In your case, your wife pushed you over the edge. I can't know, but she may have done all this to force the divorce because she simply didn't have the guts to get her issues out in the open and then work on your marriage. Many people would rather start an exciting, new romance than work to fix the one their in. I mean, how obvious is it that these people can never be truly happy? They will never have a satisfying relationship unless they get into counseling and are able to work through their emotional issues.

[BetrayedH]

God, this is so true. In direct relation to the bolded, the soft approach pretty much cannot work for the BS in the long run. In my opinion, a BS who takes a soft approach does so out of fear. Whether others understand the fear or not, it is real and motivates a BS to compromise their values and do crazy things in an attempt to "fix" the situation. I think many BS's feel, as I did, that they can carry this heavy burden until time heals this wound. We all know that this leads to "cheap forgiveness" that a BS offer's their WS in a desperate attempt to make the pain stop and get things back to "normal". Of course, time doesn't heal and the whole thing blows up down the road.

 

BH: Over time you've learned why many of us urged you to take a harder stance with your WW. We've been there and pretty much knew where it would lead. Like advice we give our kids, most BS's have to learn it for themselves although I'd like to think that some of the advice they get here is taken more seriously as it starts to ring true in their life.

 

In your case, your wife pushed you over the edge. I can't know, but she may have done all this to force the divorce because she simply didn't have the guts to get her issues out in the open and then work on your marriage. Many people would rather start an exciting, new romance than work to fix the one their in. I mean, how obvious is it that these people can never be truly happy? They will never have a satisfying relationship unless they get into counseling and are able to work through their emotional issues.

 

My experience has definitely taught me to tell others to do differently than what I did. You couldn't tell me I was wrong at the time. Unfortunately, much of the literature out there (Harley) pushes the soft approach (meet their needs, etc) so it's also not like there is a universally accepted approach that I was rejecting. I recently found a post-it note I had written back during the reconciliation. They were all things for me to do to help the recovery. One was "never talk about the affair again." That concept is a complete joke to me now and a real reflection of where I was at the time.

 

As for my W, I'm just trying to accept that I will never get it. If anything, I think she decided (like many) that certain things would never be revealed and she just never learned that the lying was the one thing she had to stop the most. Whatever. Pretty well done trying to figure her out. I have a life to live.

[Silly_Girl]

I think I would rather have my H have multiple ONS than a relationship with woman for a long period of time. At least no feelings would be involve although the risk of getting a sts would be a lot larger.

 

That's how I felt, and probably why I stayed with my cheating ex-SO.

 

I see ONS and online sexual activity as similar to a bodily function, not that far removed from masturbation or watching porn. Being involved properly, being a team behind my back, being closer to them than myself, that's what would hurt me more.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Appreciate the dialogue. Not sure that I would call your lack of empathy for your WS infidelity makes it a weakness, though. From what I see, even the BSs that successfully reconcile are 'stronger' in that most of them kicked the WS out without much hesitation. This seemed to snap the WS out of their 'fog' and the WS came crawling back and was able to do enough for the BS to reestablish trust over the long haul. I wasn't strong enough to kick mine out or to divorce. In my desperation, I took a softer approach which does more damage to your sense of self-worth. Ugh. Just saying I'm not sure how much of a weakness it is to not have empathy for someone that has quite deliberately betrayed you. Your strength seems to have served you well and if you are otherwise normal in your empathy for others, perhaps you just have a healthier ability to determine when to have empathy and when to cut your losses.

 

Someone here once said that both paths take strength and I agree. Staying and reconciling = strength, divorcing and moving on= strength.

 

The real thing is the wisdom to do the right one, to know what you can handle and to take decisive action if things aren't going to work for you.

 

To me the things that make it really hard to make the right call are:

1. WS's lies, making it hard make decisions based on reality

2. Figuring out your own limits.

 

#2 is very hard to learn

#1 just takes a lot of snooping, I wished I had done more early on.

[Steadfast]

As for my W, I'm just trying to accept that I will never get it.

 

Profound. Someone once told me to not seek answers from someone who doesn't know them. Best I can gather, my ex wife's wants and needs correlated with whatever situation she found herself in at the moment.

 

As I've written on this forum before, my pop had an affair. My folks moved past it and were married 66-years before he passed. Maybe it was because he was hyper-sensitive, but he never really got past the guilt...it haunted him until the end. My mother's general position (after like, 35 years) was 'get over it, move on' but the damage was clearly evident. She loved him; and even though she never said a thing to me or anyone else in my family about it (pop told me, she told a family friend that later told me what she expressed) she wore his betrayal like a black stain on her favorite white dress.

 

No doubt divorce was best for me. My position now is that fidelity is a one-drop deal. If that concept doesn't fit a person, they shouldn't commit.